Does anyone else find this to be a pretty hilarious example of a tech arms race? It solves a real problem, assuming it works, but what a strange, rube-goldberg-esque use of technology.<p>Service Provider buys voice recognition software and sets up complex maze of phone tree options to drive users away from the human support agents (even though the users can't solve their problem without human intervention - if you don't want to pay for enough support agents for your call volume, wouldn't it just be simpler to let me cancel my damn account online??).<p>Now user can deploy their own speech synthesis bot to wait on hold, with what is presumably a complex system of AI decisionmaking to be able to navigate the maze and find a human support agent to connect you with.
This is AWESOME and I can't wait for Apple to hopefully build their own version as well.<p>But at the same time, I can't help but wonder if representatives will actually stay on the line to wait for you.<p>If you're accidentally on mute or they don't hear you, sometimes they'll hang up <i>very</i> quickly, within just a few seconds. (Not always though.)<p>I hope that because it'll play a message for them instructing them to wait for you, they'll wait... but I also assume they'll set an internal policy on how long they're allowed to. Will it be 30 seconds? 15 seconds? 60 seconds?
Dang!<p>9 years ago we announced an app that did this right here on Hacker News. <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2285594" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2285594</a><p>How we did it: We hired the AT&T lady to make a recording that said, "Press 1 for your next caller". We played that on a loop for operators. When we detected a DTMF "1" we'd call your cellphone and connect the calls. We had most of the big companies in the app, but failed in the end because we couldn't find a business model. My first VC-funded startup. :)<p>Site is still up! (But not longer mine) http:/www.fastcustomer.com/<p>What I'm up to now: <a href="http://www.happymonday.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.happymonday.com/</a> (helping people find work based on mutual values, priorities and functional work culture fit.)
More often than not, when someone takes you off from hold they expect an answer right away, and will hang up on you if there's no response. I've had this happen in cases where I put myself on mute and couldn't hit the un-mute button fast enough.<p>So I'm not sure how well this would work in practice. At minimum, I would be anxious the whole time I was waiting, ready to hit the return to call button at a moment's notice...
I'm not 100% sure if it was intentional, but there was a span of time when AT&T's customer service queue (for land lines) behaved like this. You'd call in, your call would be placed on hold (with their terrible hold music), then if you hung up it would call you back when an agent answered your call. I only discovered this behaviour because one day I was fed up with waiting, hung up the phone, and then an hour or so later got the call back. Repeated this a couple times after that call and it worked the same way. I have no idea if that ever worked for their cellular accounts, or if it was peculiar to their land lines.
Over the last year or two the Phone app team has been knocking it out of the park. My other favorite feature is automatic screening of calls and declining of robocalls: <a href="https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en" rel="nofollow">https://support.google.com/phoneapp/answer/9118387?hl=en</a><p>(Disclaimer: I work for Google, although on a totally unrelated team.)
I used to work helpdesk at an ISP, and we played the local classic rock station as our hold music. One of my best shifts was when a customer I put on hold asked to be put <i>back</i> on hold because they were really enjoying the songs they were playing. Done!
I don't mind hold music, but it's the constant fake interruption with advertisements that interrupt the hold music every 30 seconds that destroys your ability to multitask while waiting. Looking at you AT&T.
I might buy a pixel 5 just for this feature...I waited 30 min on the line for just to make a doctor appointment recently. Wait time are fucking absurd for some of these services since Covid, especially with banks and medical offices.
Off-topic, but related: I've always wondered why someone hasn't offered a muzak-type service that is built around algorithmic generation of music.<p>In my estimation, the state of algorithmic music doesn't currently allow for the compelling listening that we're used to with most "human" music, but I can see it being good enough for situations like call-holding or similarly ambient situations like restrooms or lobbies. It could be somewhat bland, but it's content shifts subtly enough to avoid irritation over the course of ten minutes.<p>In my head, I hear something like the kind of minimal techno that Ricardo Villalobos is known for. Long, evolving, beatscapes that slowly transform over the course of an hour: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWdWzMdndc" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZWdWzMdndc</a><p>I was once put on hold at a music equipment rental shop and heard a decidedly "non-muzak" drum and synthesizer loop. When the rep took me off hold they explained that I was hearing a live feed of some electronic instruments that they had running in the back room. He then put me back on hold in order to demonstrate him playing around with the synthesizers that were on loop. That really made my day.
With hands-free phones I never felt like I was wasting my time on hold. However, this might save my sanity by not making me listen to the awful music over and over.
I'm assuming there is some ML model running on-device which can detect whether or not the hold music is over.<p>When features like this are rolled out they almost never mention:<p>a) Battery usage<p>b) Heat<p>When I use my phone to record a video, it heats up.<p>When I use the Google Maps AR directions, it heats up and also drains the battery like crazy.<p>If your phone is heating up, and you put a skin or shell on it, is the phone and feature designed for this scenario? So if I'm on hold for 20 minutes, am I risking my hardware because they built this feature?<p>Users ought to reject advertising like this unless there is disclosure of how it will impact these things.<p>Also for how long can this feature run before killing my entire battery? What if I'm travelling and calling the airline from the airport with 25% battery? If this luxury costs me 15% battery for a 15 minute hold, I don't want it.
It’s hilarious that Google think an agent in a call centre that’s working to a revenue target will wait while you answer the phone.<p>Almost as hilarious as the Duplex demo when Duplex called the hair salon and booked an appointment.<p>How it actually would have gone:<p>Duplex: dial +15556789012<p>Salon: Hello, how can I help?<p>Duplex: I’d like to book an appointment for next week, what times are available?<p>Hair salon: who do you normally have?<p>Duplex: Melanie<p>Hair Salon: Melanie’s amazing isn’t she, she has so many clients. She’s off at the moment because she’s in Bermuda with her new boyfriend - he’s so hot, hey Natalie is taking on her clients, you might have met her - she usually does blow dries.<p>Duplex: [ERROR] I’d like to book with Melanie.<p>Hair salon: She’s in Bermuda. I just said that, Natalie can fit you in at 3:15 on Thursday. Is that ok?<p>Duplex: is that with Melanie?<p>Hair salon: No.<p>Duplex: ok, bye.
I was on the fence for the pre-order. This did it. Pre-ordered.<p>But right after I ordered, I'm now struck with wondering if the Fi version I ordered is the same as the one from the Play Store. I hope it's International. That's why I use Fi.
This new Pixel 5 phone (featured in the article) doesn't have WiFi 6 or BT 5.
I'm extremely disappointed and I think that's going to be the reason I decide not to upgrade to it from my iPhone.<p>My place has some of the new fancy metal insulation in the walls, and AC WiFi struggles to pull 50Mbit through the walls on my Macbook, but my desktop with WiFi 6 works perfectly in that situation well over 100Mbit.
This misses the point entirely. The problem is that we’re put through IVR (1) and put on hold (2) because:<p>1. The call recipient doesn’t know why we’re calling<p>2. There’s not enough agents to deal with particular issues.<p>Deploying AI in the face of these problems is ridiculous, we just introduce more reasons for error.<p>We face these problems because telephone numbers only connect us to call centre boxes which rely on touch tones to navigate a system - it’s from the 50s.<p>A better solution is to interrogate a phone number for information before a call is made - this could be IVR menu options so we can navigate the call centre before we make the call; or add ourselves to a call back queue through online resources rather than through an antiquated telephone system.<p>A small team and I are working on a way to store and retrieve machine readable data for domain names - <a href="https://www.num.uk" rel="nofollow">https://www.num.uk</a><p>We want to do the same for telephone numbers by issuing the holder of telephone numbers with domains like 441234567890.num.net where they can store structured data.
When have you actually phoned a company the last time and were put on hold?<p>In the day and age of live chats, mails and whatnot, I haven't made calls to any company for quite some time. If it's important, somebody will call me. That's the way it should work, not me going on my knees and begging to talk to someone who takes money from me.
I feel like this could lead to massive wait times, as people stop dropping out of the queue. If I have a problem that isn't urgent, normally I would hang up after waiting for a while, but with this you don't have any reason to so peak wait times could go up a lot.
I remember a startup nearly 10 years ago that did something similar <a href="http://www.fastcustomer.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fastcustomer.com/</a><p>Pretty cool that this feature is not built in to the operating system.
Putting your customers on hold is treating them as adversaries. It's usually a signal that whatever product you're calling about is a scam. Unfortunately, participating in some scams (ie healthcare) are pretty much mandatory.
What I want is an app that can actually navigate the menu system to get a live person for me. Could try "0" or "#" to see if that works first, and get more complicated from there. If the call drops in the process, should be able to call back to keep trying.<p>That process is the most frustrating part for me. I'm already able to put my phone on speaker and do something else during the hold part. It's getting to the hold that is the most maddening.<p>Could even have an optional cloud-backed version that memorizes common companies' phone trees.
It's nice but then the other side will wait for you to return to the call. I actually though that Google Assistant would talk with me during the hold time and attempt to resolve my request by caller-defined Frequently TalkedAbout Topics before reaching the human. Or maybe in the future just let the Assistant know what you need and let the Assistant talk with the representative without your intervention. Then I would return to the phone hour later and the Assistant would tell me the summary of the call.
<p><pre><code> Although your world wonders me
with your majestic superior cackling hen
Your people I do not understand
So to you I wish to put an end
And you'll never hear hold music again
</code></pre>
The problem is not the music. The problem is the hold. What’s on the other side of the line is celebrating the absence of music as if the music is the problem. It’s on the other side of the line because of how many people had to buy into the idea of “no music” messaging. The proposition that music is the problem and how Google solves it.
Just press 0 until an operator comes. That's what I do. You don't need AI for that. This is too high tech for no reason. Might as well use an AI on your toothbrush that tells you where you need to brush more with an accelerometer and camera in the brush. Overkill.
Tech users tend to have an issue putting tech into everything. They will insist/injecting on strange changes like moving with a drone for short distances instead of vehicles or other changes that have little benefit.
Strike One: Only works on Google-branded phones. Which among other things means Google harvests data from it, because otherwise they wouldn't do it.<p>Strike Two: Stupid kludge. The right solution is a DTMF code that plays iff a real human answers, so it only requires two transistors rather than a 50-kilowatt tensor network to recognize. That would have to be legislated, of course.<p>Strike Three: Hiring Mechanical Turk to "wait on hold for me" is probably easier.
Is this feature going to be backported to the earlier Pixel phones as well? I definitely don't want to get the Pixel 5:<p>1. $699<p>2. No XL variant, only 6"<p>3. Soli was removed (most under-utilized tech)<p>4. Same cameras as my Pixel 3<p>5. Mediocre SoC
I hope the AI can detect the head fakes I get.<p>I spent a lot of time on hold with a regional telecom company early in pandemic WFH trying to upgrade our internet. The hold music was interrupted every 20 or so seconds with a "hello, thank you for calling..." message that startled me into thinking I was off hold <i>every single time</i>, but was really just an advert for other services.
I recently made a video about the soul-destroying nature of hold music! Link is here, if you're in the mood for a poor attempt at humor: <a href="https://twitter.com/tavinathanson/status/1300643251356016641" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/tavinathanson/status/1300643251356016641</a>
Really interesting.<p>What would be really cool is AI technology that answers calls from unknown numbers and figures out if that is a legitimate call. If so, it alerts you, if not, it can be told to try to keep the spammer on the line for 10 minutes or so by having a conversation with them.
This is a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. It's bad for everyone for people to be on hold. Many organizations have started doing the smart thing: asking users for a number and calling them back when it's their turn. This should be the SOP.
I initially read that as "Say Goodbye to Old Music".<p>I thought they were rubbing it in that they were throwing out all my music I had uploaded to Google Play Music (last time I checked, outside the US, it isn't possible to move the music to Youtube Music).
We did this at a hackathon once <a href="https://devpost.com/software/easydial" rel="nofollow">https://devpost.com/software/easydial</a> - Very cool to see this in production!
<i>unless you explicitly decide to share it and help improve the feature.</i><p>They just couldn't resist listening in, could they? Want to be that not "sharing" involves a dark pattern?
I wonder how it works with the automated hold off-ramp that tell you 'We are now connecting you to a representative...' but then essentially puts you back on short hold until they pick up.
I'm not going to lie: my first thought was that Google was cancelling yet another product. Only issue I had was that I'd never heard of a product called "Google Hold Music."
I can't believe there's no standard in SIP to display the 'IVR' on your phone as a menu and have it give you a ring once an agent is available yet
Google is once again acting as if the world outside of the US doesn't exist.<p>So this will have support for Russian in 10 years, I guess? Or am I too optimistic?
I can queue for a game of mahjong, so why can't I queue for a support call?<p>It's appalling there's no protocol extending phone calls for this yet.
> ... in the U.S.<p>Thanks Google, for geolocking a feature which is useful internationally, since people outside the U.S. apparently don't use telephones.
How well will this cope with everyone's favorite idiotic invention, the hold feature that interrupts the hold music with a brief silence followed by a pre-recorded human voice saying "DID YOU KNOW THAT BASIC FEATURES ARE AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE" every minute, making you think that maybe you've finally reached an agent, but haven't?<p>Some support manager discovered that adding those damn interstitials led to a massive reduction in human interactions (and thus cost) from a boomer population wishing to handle all account management tasks by phone conversation with a person, but at least had some percentage who could be convinced to use a website for routine tasks. We've been living with the fallout ever since.
... and hello to forgetting why you were on the phone in the first place.<p>User calls financial institution, user is put on hold, user invokes "goodbye to hold music" feature, user goes on with their life and regains time, user forgets they are on hold and goes to the bathroom... you can see where this is going.
This is Google solving an analogue problem with an analogue solution and a digital bolt on. One of the richest companies in the world and this is the best they can come up with!? Where’s the investment in innovation? It’s disgraceful.<p>Google - give every phone number an open digital presence and it creates a world of possibilities. Not a Google locked down digital presence, a real digital presence - eg 44123456789.telephone, hell even call it 44123456789.googlenum - just make it portable.