How To Be An Anti-Casteist

I am an Indian and I genuinely don't know exactly where I stand in the cast hierarchy. In India it was pretty common for people to ask me my caste. However, what struck me the most was, that during my Master's in the US, other Indians who I was attending university with, would ask me the same question. When I would tell them that I genuinely don't know the answer, they would mock and imperceptibly laugh at me. I felt like an outcast because this seemed to be a common question shared by all the regional Indian groups(yes, mostly people from the same region will hang out with each other and refrain from hanging out with people from other regions). I was raised in a metropolitan Indian city where this isn't an issue and I had not met many Indians from other parts of India. So this was a shocker to me. Having not faced discrimination in India, I faced discrimination in an entirely different country, just because I was unaware of my "social status". Wow!

The strict social hierarchical dynamics of Indian culture is damaging to a lot of workplaces. 2nd generation Indians are great. The Indians that are from lower casts or from oppressed groups like Christians or Muslims are really great. But the higher castes are extremely insular, and treat anyone of any race poorly.<p>This might be taboo, but every time I see a situation where there are multiple Indians in a reporting chain, I run. If you have an Indian above and below, you will be bypassed on work, undermined, and given absurd directions, almost designed to drive you out. Then there is the case where if an Indian gets into management, they will start filling everything with their friends. Other management positions, they will start fighting to bring in some contractors from some place like Infosys. Its the death knell of the IT division at the company.<p>Being on a team where you are the only non-Indian means you will be an outcast. You&#x27;ll not be invited to meetings, they&#x27;ll talk in their native tongue to exclude you. I&#x27;ve been the only white guy working with Chinese, and they don&#x27;t do that. I&#x27;ve been in similar situations with Africans &#x2F; and African Americans and they will welcome you right along.<p>This is the truth, no matter how politically incorrect it is, and every time you walk into an IT office and there are 80% Indians, that&#x27;s the reason.

After an interview I attended at a fintech company, my Indian team lead straight out said she was trying to figure out the interviewee&#x27;s cast. I was not familiar with the concept -- so my expression was mostly blank -- but she immediately followed up with &quot;oh, I shouldn&#x27;t have said that&quot;.<p>I took no action, but wasn&#x27;t sure what to do. After I learned more about it, I started to wonder where I was in this hierarchy.<p>If you ever overhear something like this, what would you do?

The recent major threads on this topic appear to be:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24552047" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24552047</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23697083" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23697083</a><p>Also these, which have dozens of comments but not hundreds:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24555492" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24555492</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23798922" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23798922</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24065132" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24065132</a>

From Cynthia Tablot’s Precolonial India in Practice[0]<p>&gt; One peculiarity of Andhra society is that many of the leading warrior families made no pretensions to ksatriya status but instead proudly proclaimed their descent from the creator Bramha’s feet. This is an allusion to the famous origin myth first found in the Rig Veda wherein the four varnas are said to have originated from different portions of the body of Purusha, the primordial man. It was from the creator’s feet that the fourth, or sudra, class sprang, and another way of expressing sudra status was to say that one belonged to the fourth order of society. The pride in sudra origin is especially prominent in two records from the fourteenth century, in which sudras are said to be the best of the four varnas because they are the bravest or the purest. Families in what was theoretically the lowest social category, and not the ksatriya lineages of the costal subregion, possessed the greatest degree of actual political power in medieval Andhra, despite their relatively humble ancestry.<p>India’s history of caste in society is far more complicated than what’s portrayed in popular depictions of India. Add to this, India’s insane cultural diversity. When Ibn Batuta was traveling through (presumably north) India recording how women were uneducated, forced into marriage and how Brahmins held the highest social status, the Bhakti movement (sort of similar to Europe’s protestant movement) was brewing in the south[1], the Virasaivas were trying to form a caste free society in what is now Karnataka[2] and you have sudra rulers over modern day Andhra Pradesh.<p>This complicated history has largely been forgotten, Indian textbooks do not come anywhere close to exploring the complexity of the origins of Caste.<p>I appreciate NPR taking an interest in talking about Caste in India, but this treatment is extremely disappointing. Indian society can not discuss caste freely - there is too much political baggage that gets in the way (notice how all the references below aren’t from Indian scholars). NPR has an incredible opportunity to be the swiss neutral ground when talking about caste and how it impacts every day life in India.<p>I really hope they don’t bring that baggage over to America and end all possibility for level headed discourse.<p>[0] Cynthia Talbot, “Precolonial India in Practice - Society, Region and Identity in Medieval Andhra”. Chapter 2, page 51. [1] John Stratton Hawley, “A storm of songs” [2] Gil Ben-Herut, “Silva’s saints - the origins of devotion in Kannada according to Harihara’s Ragalegalu”

There has been a lot of outrage over the past week in India over the rape of a lower caste woman by upper castes. The police sided with the culprits and forced the family to cremate the victim to destroy evidence. This is a common tactic by upper castes to spread terror and keep the lower castes in line. Goes to show how entrenched the system is especially outside the big cities.

My 2 cents about my experience in growing up in rural central India, which hosts several major Scheduled Tribes (Adivasis) and Neo-Buddhists (erstwhile dalits).<p>* Modern caste system isn&#x27;t the same as the one in 19th, 18th and 17th Century. Different groups climbed up and down the ladder, aided by the socio-political movements.<p>* The modern version of caste is more about social prestige, and status. In my experience whenever people were curious about my caste it was to know what tribe you belong. Just like people asked me regularly where I was &quot;actually&quot; from in EU and US.<p>* A lot of rural Indians aren&#x27;t well versed with the metropolitan western concept of egalité, because the Dharmic system functions differently. This means the closest frame of reference is the caste system to know one&#x27;s place in the pecking order. Same structures can be found in Japan and Korea.<p>* The Dalits are a formidable political force now and a lot of caste based discrimination is done by non-Brahmins who fear the reduction of their share of the pie. I&#x27;ve seen brahmins being on receiving end of the caste based discrimination, countless no. of times.<p>* Caste system in corporate world is cloak-and-daggers game and goes hand in hand with using language, region, culture etc to further their aims. A Marathi Kunbi might be favoured by a Marathi manager over a Bengali Kayastha.<p>* I studied in a Govt. college which has more than 50% seats reserved for SC&#x2F;ST&#x2F;OBC&#x2F;NT and I have first hand experience that caste is not an indicator of talent.

See, you can have discourses on caste, you can deliberate as you will, but endogamy - marrying within your caste - is still the norm across India, even in the states where people are not that finicky about caste. Until this chain is broken, the shadow boxing on the sidelines will continue. Interestingly the Caribbean communities have somehow managed to shed caste, while retaining the Hindu identity.

The solution to the caste system in India is actually very simple. Religious conversion. Ambedkar was a visionary who himself converted out of Hindu religion and gave up his &#x27;caste&#x27;.<p>Caste is essentially the same as feudalism, but unlike other regions of the world where feudalism was a societal concept, it became a religious one in India. Buddhism for example is an Indian religion but Buddha was explicitly against the concept of caste-by-birth. Abrahamic religions are also devoid of the concept of caste.<p>So whenever there are any caste issues, it&#x27;s always two Hindus involved. Upper caste hindus don&#x27;t probe the caste of a person if they hear a Christian&#x2F;Muslim&#x2F;Buddhist name because they know that it won&#x27;t exist.<p>Because of how easy it is to give up caste, lower castes have been doing religious conversions in India in large numbers. The so called upper caste , only make up 30% of Hindu population and if all lower castes were to convert then Hinduism would become a minority in India. To prevent this mass exodus, various states of India have been coming up with anti-conversion laws which make it really hard for people to convert. Though I really don&#x27;t understand why lower caste dalits in the US continue to stay Hindu, when they could just change their religion and avoid the whole caste discussion altogether.

&gt; They patted his shoulders to see if he was wearing a white thread that only Brahmins wear.<p>If Brahmins can be identified by wearing a white-thread – do any non-Brahmins ever try to pass as Brahmin by donning a white thread for themselves?

I have to admit it&#x27;s somewhat amusing to see how surprised some people are to realize that people who aren&#x27;t white can be racist too. Humans don&#x27;t change much culture to culture once you get past a lot of the more superficial stuff.

Quoting from the article:<p>&gt; Years ago, these invitations to go swimming with American friends and neighbors were a sign of acceptance. But now the same invitations for his fellow Indians felt like a trap to out him as a Dalit.<p>Not trying to defend casteism or anything, and Maybe I understood it wrong, but this makes it seem like if Indian guys are inviting him for swim then it must be ascertain his caste, but if Americans do it then its a sign of friendship. This makes it seem like its more in his head.

The dialogue here seems foreign to me. Playing a coy game where you realize someone is trying to infer something about you so you dodge the question. It&#x27;s weird to imagine that people engage in a cultural dance where you need certainty of arbitrary facts before you decide to act like a dick (oversimplified).<p>But it&#x27;s really weird to see that there&#x27;s not overt cultural movements to shed this stuff. Trying to hide the fact that you&#x27;re a lower caste, in a way, seems to embody the fact that you&#x27;re a lower caste, shifting it from an outward identity to a hidden identity. Seems like the obvious thing to do is to get ahead of the issue and state that you don&#x27;t have a caste. Or make up a post modern American one. I get this is hard to do when you&#x27;re in a position of weakness relative to the other party (like manager&#x27;s as described). But like, this is clearly a social movement waiting to happen. If someone of equal social standing starts probing you for your caste, you should confront them on it and say you don&#x27;t subscribe to it, because otherwise you do, on some level, subscribe to it.<p>I won&#x27;t pretend it&#x27;s not much, much easier said than done, but geez. Is there really such a collective power by upper indian castes that you can&#x27;t bring the issue to the table if you&#x27;re reasonably well established? Say, a second generation citizen, with a multi racial network?<p>Racial discrimination between people of color and whites is a frustratingly stupid problem to deal with. Caste discrimination seems, somehow, even dumber, because based on non-obvious, made up facts.<p>What am I missing?

I am quite surprised! I am not saying it doesn’t happen, but I am plain surprised. I have been in US for 8 years and reported to Indians most of the time (I am Indian too), and thought of happening something like this here never occurred to me. I believed like minded, educated Indians who mostly comes from Middle class would never do this.

As long as there is no illegal discrimination, what is wrong with asking and knowing if people you work with are people you relate to better in terms of religion?<p>If I am a Brahmin, why wouldn’t I want to know if my co worker is also a Brahmin?<p>Ivy League, for example..is the caste system of the US. Are we going to abolish them?<p>This is an absurd article. It is absolutely cringe worthy. Shame on NPR.<p>An egalitarian society is one which is open and people accept others despite their differences. And not because it would be politically incorrect or legally vulnerable to do so..this kind of nonsense narratives is why we have acrimonious and hostile societies.<p>If there is a wound, let it build up pus and burst open. Letting it fester until a suppurating wound kicks you into septic shock is really not advisable.<p>There is no diversity without differences. If we are all same, it’s called being homogenous. Not diverse.

What does &quot;(ph)&quot; mean in this context?<p>&gt; When Sam Cornelius (ph) first arrived...

I saw a blog post about castes and 10 ways to figh casteism or whatever, and it looked like a run of the mill USA Black anti-racism listicle but with s&#x2F;Black&#x2F;[name of caste];s&#x2F;White&#x2F;[name of caste]<p>At first I thought sure the issues must be similar, but then it seemed too exactly the same and I decided it must have been copied from some US site and then minimally translated to use Indian groups.<p>There are a issues that are important in India&#x2F;casteism but not in US&#x2F;racism, like job applications that require a biography of the applicant&#x27;s parents.

When we hear the word caste, we think of India, of poverty, inequality, and discrimination. But caste is a European non translatable, from Spanish-Portuguese &quot;Casta&quot;. Racial purity or limpieza de sangre was at the root of this system.<p>When Europeans colonised the Americas 500 years ago, they established a casta system in Mexico. France had three castes - nobility, clergy, and peasants. This unjust system came to and end with the French revolution. The Dutch established a caste system in Sri Lanka. After colonising Philipines, Spain started a caste system there. The unehrliche Leute were the outcastes of Germany, the latrine cleaners, skinners and grave diggers.<p>England had four castes - king, nobles, knights and peasants. Gongfermours, the toilet cleaners were outcastes in London. The Romanis were outcastes for thousand years.<p>Caste is quintessentially European.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-asia-india-48619734" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-asia-india-48619734</a>

People are people and always have ways to flag people outside the tribe.

One anecdote that struck me was that a cousin, someone a couple of decades older than I am and spent time in US since 1990s, openly admit to me that he was more open minded in India and became more caste conscious once he moved to the US.<p>I am not sure if he sounded regretful or just was sharing a fact of his life, but that really was weird.

There were a lot of insightful comments when the lawsuit mentioned in the article was first announced.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23697827" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23697827</a>

Jati-s (castes) exist. Does &#x27;the caste system&#x27; exist? No one has proved it. What people do to prove the existence of such a system: injustices, one verse from Purusha sukta, some verses from Manu, another verse from Gita.

Here&#x27;s a great piece on caste in America: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;07&#x2F;01&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;isabel-wilkerson-caste.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;07&#x2F;01&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;isabel-wilkerson...</a>

The basic problem is that hierarchical organization of the society where a human&#x27;s worth is determined by his birth is a core classical Hindu (i.e., &quot;Brahmanical&quot;) value; egalitarianism is not.<p>Either Hindus must rewrite the theology of Hinduism to accept an interpretation of the concept of varNa in a way that is concordant with humanistic and egalitarian ideals, or Hindus must accept that Hinduism will be reduced to a minority religion in India. I can&#x27;t imagine why anyone would agree to be part of a religion that formally considers him or her as a lower class human by birth than certain other humans in the same religion.

I have been following the discussions on caste here at HN and other forums. I noticed that whenever this topic comes up, there are some arguments brought up to either deny the existence of the caste system in modern India or to blame it entirely on the European rulers or portray it as a noble social system that was hijacked for political purposes. Let me address these points.<p>1. Caste system was a thing of the past<p>I was born in India in a Hindu family and lived there for most of my life, until recently. I left the country because, among other reasons, I did a inter-caste marriage and was afraid of the repercussions. I was raised in a big city but had close ties to my ancestral village where my grandparents and extended family live. I can attest that the caste system does exist in all spheres of life and it is more pronounced in rural areas but less visible in urban centers. The caste system decides who you can marry, where you can live and even where you will be buried when you are dead. I have faced casteism at school, work and personal life. I have seen, as clear as daylight, numerous other incidents of caste based discrimination and violence both subtle and overt.<p>Some recent incidents in the news throws light on how invasive these practices are.<p>Hyderabad, a tech hub on par with Bangalore, had an incident of Honor Killing last week, which is just one of many such incidents. [1]<p>Low caste people are still forced to live in secluded parts called Dalit Colonies and are not allowed to freely enter the main sections of the village, where the upper castes live. [2]<p>There still exist separate burial and cremation grounds for low caste people.[3][4][5]<p>These are just some of the manifestations of the system. There are many day to day practices that are considered normal behavior by the society.<p>India&#x27;s popular matrimonial sites has separate sections for each caste.[6]<p>You can see many house lease offers in popular classifieds websites saying &quot;Vegetarians only&quot;. This is a form of Dog whistling as most upper castes are vegetarian.[7]<p>2. Caste system was introduced by British rulers to divide Indians.<p>Most people cite to the census carried out by the British, but conveniently forget that the census just formally documented the existing caste demographics for administrative purposes; not invent it. The caste system has roots in vedic culture and existed for at-least two millennia before Europeans ruled India. The religious laws such as Manusmriti and Dharmasutra extensively documents the caste system. Any one who reads those scriptures can understand that the ancient civil laws were entirely based on caste. I see this argument as a way to deflect the blame on foreign rulers without accepting the flaws that were inherent to the Hindu religion.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.deccanchronicle.com&#x2F;nation&#x2F;crime&#x2F;260920&#x2F;man-hacked-to-death-by-wifes-family-in-honour-killing.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.deccanchronicle.com&#x2F;nation&#x2F;crime&#x2F;260920&#x2F;man-hack...</a><p>2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;timesofindia.indiatimes.com&#x2F;city&#x2F;coimbatore&#x2F;path-to-dalit-colony-remains-blocked-for-nine-months&#x2F;articleshow&#x2F;71571974.cms" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;timesofindia.indiatimes.com&#x2F;city&#x2F;coimbatore&#x2F;path-to-...</a><p>3. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thenewsminute.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;denied-access-crematorium-madurai-dalits-forced-wait-corpse-rain-108246" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thenewsminute.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;denied-access-cremator...</a><p>4. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;us-india-landrights-caste-trfn&#x2F;denied-in-life-indias-lower-caste-dalits-fight-for-land-in-death-idUSKBN20T0T1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;us-india-landrights-caste-tr...</a><p>5. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sabrangindia.in&#x2F;article&#x2F;dalits-obcs-forced-bury-their-deceased-roadsid" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sabrangindia.in&#x2F;article&#x2F;dalits-obcs-forced-bury-thei...</a><p>6. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.shaadi.com&#x2F;matrimony&#x2F;reddy-matrimony" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.shaadi.com&#x2F;matrimony&#x2F;reddy-matrimony</a><p>7. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nobroker.in&#x2F;property&#x2F;2-BHK-apartment-for-rent-in-Vijaya-Nagar---Only-Vegetarian-bangalore-for-rs-0&#x2F;ff8081815c62583c015c62681aec02d5&#x2F;detail" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nobroker.in&#x2F;property&#x2F;2-BHK-apartment-for-rent-in...</a>

The most bizarre aspect is that the word <i>caste</i> is of Portugese origin (casta - lineage, race, ethnicity) and there is no comparable word in Hinduism. Caste is a conflation of Jati (Birth) and Varna (qualities and karma) which are two very disparate concept. The former, Jati, is a living breathing practiced thing and the latter a conceptual framework that exists in texts which most Hindus never read or even hear of. See [1]. In India, Christians, Muslims and others like Jains practice Jati but it is often mistakenly conflated to them practicing Caste. This quote from the 1921 census of India by the British well summarizes it [2][3]:<p><i>&quot;Middleton, one of the two Superintendents of Census operations of 1921, made eloquent remarks about the effect of the British Administration on caste in the Punjab. He observed, I had intended pointing out that there is a very wide revolt against the classification of occupational castes, that these castes have been largely manufactured and almost entirely preserved as separate castes by the British Government, our land records and official documents have added iron bonds to the old rigidity of caste. Caste in itself was rigid among the higher castes, but malleable amongst the lower. We pigeon-holed every one by caste, and if could not find a true caste for them, labelled them with the name of an hereditary occupation. We deplore the caste system and its effect on social and economic problems, but we are largely responsible for the system we deplore. Left to themselves such castes as Sonar (goldsmith) and Lohar (blacksmith) would rapidly disappear and no one would suffer . .. Government&#x27;s passion for castes and pigeon-holes has led to crystallization of the caste system, which except amongst the aristocratic castes, was really very fluid under indigenous rule ... If the government would ignore caste it would gradually be replaced by something very different amongst the lower castes.&quot;</i><p>The key point to take away is &quot;caste&quot; was mobile at the lower strata but locked in at the top. I remember reading the Census of India in the 1990s and it had the same conclusion - as one ascended the economic ladder, the caste evolved too, which makes sense.<p>The British were the first one to categorize everyone into 4 castes which is map every Jati (Birth) into the 4 castes in some Hindu texts. The hierarchical &amp; rigid classification of the 4 castes in India is a figment of the Western Mind. The 4 varnas exist in some Hindu texts as a conceptual formulation but Hinduism has hundreds of texts none of which is central unlike Judaism&#x2F;Christianity or Islam who each have one central book. A practicing Hindu can choose to believe in any, some or no text sometimes within the same family. There are Hindus who eat meat and ones who foreswear it, Hindus who worship murtis (idols) and ones who are against it, Hindus who believe in a creator god (astika) and Hindus who don&#x27;t (Nasktika) and so on and so forth. I know practicing Brahmins who will eat meat (and beef!) and non-practicing Hindus who are vegetarian. The variety is bewildering until you realize Hinduism is about seeking your own path. Most Hindu texts are ignored by the vast majority of Hindus and they are unaware of their existence let alone their contents.<p>There are temples today where priests are only drawn from Dalit &quot;castes&quot;, which are the lowest castes. Even a few decades ago there were villages, especially in South India, where Brahmins could not go to Dalit neighborhood on fear of death and vice-versa. Jati is a complex practice that defies simplistic categorization and understanding.<p>You can infer the <i>Jati</i> of some one from their last name, the closest translation of Jati is <i>Clan</i>. Discrimination based on that is similar to discrimination based on Nationality, Ethnicity, Religion, Alma Mater or Fraternity. Idiotic and parochial. Should be condemned unequivocally. South Indian Reddy(s) who are often found in IT professions will as much discriminate against a Dalit &quot;caste&quot;&quot; from Western India as they will against a farmer caste from Bihar <i>in favor</i> of their kind of castes. Again, stupid and parochial but similar to Japanese discriminating against Korean-Japanese or Han Chinese discriminating against Mongolians and Tibetans or Ivy Leaguers preferring other ivy leaguers, etc.<p>Conflating all the problems of discrimination in India to a 4-level hierarchy is just a imaginary and lurid construct of the Western mind.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hinduamerican.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2019&#x2F;12&#x2F;Caste-3.0-Caste-Conflating-Varna-and-Jati.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.hinduamerican.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2019&#x2F;12&#x2F;Cas...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;edition&#x2F;Welfare_of_Scheduled_Castes_in_India&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;edition&#x2F;Welfare_of_Scheduled_Ca...</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;BharatDharma&#x2F;status&#x2F;1162977793224802304&#x2F;photo&#x2F;1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;BharatDharma&#x2F;status&#x2F;1162977793224802304&#x2F;...</a>

I saw this on quite a few anti-India pro-pakistani sub-reddits where they are brigading this to top of hacker news.

&lt;Edit&gt; I have structured the post better and would appreciate if people can let me know what&#x27;s wrong with this comment. &lt;&#x2F;Edit&gt;<p>India is struggling hard to get rid of this menace introduced during colonial era. We have reservation in education, government jobs, and politics to bring backwards at par. Almost 50% of seats in education and government jobs falls under this category. Seat are also reserved into politics.<p>But the the irony of India is that caste as a system was introduced by European. Word caste itself is of Portuguese origin. Here is a quick read.[1]<p>All mature societies need skill based division of labour. India had Varna based system which meant society needs four classes of people to run smoothly. These weren&#x27;t hard classes you were enforced in. People changes their classes as they changes profession. For example Rishi Vishmamitra was a born warrior but later on he turned into a academic. Here is a famous shloka from [2]<p>&lt;quote&gt;<p><pre><code> जन्मना जायते शूद्रः संस्कारात् द्विज उच्यते | वेद–पाठात् भवेत् विप्रः ब्रह्म जानाती ब्राह्मणः | Janmana jayate sudrah, samskarat dwij uchchte, Veda pathnat bhavet viprah, brahma janati brahmanah </code></pre> Meaning: In Vedic culture by birth everyone is Sudra(lower caste), by accepting Samskara (Purificatory process) one becomes a Dvija(Twice Born), By study of Veda one becomes Vipra, Knower of Brahman is Brahmana. It means a true brahmin has the divine vision, knowledge and powers.<p>Sloka means everybody is born a Sudrah. One who follows the right samskaras has a second birth, one who reads the vedas and understands them becomes a wise man and one who realises the brahma or the source of creation becomes a Brahman. Those seven mind born Rishis of Brahma are real Brahmins ancestors- parents of humen.<p>&lt;&#x2F;quote&gt;<p>In brief, all knowledge work was supposed to be handled by academic class Brahmins. Being born in a Brahmins family wasn&#x27;t enough to get you into academics though. If you became a warrior you will be called kshatriya. Similary business class vaishya, and Shudras class existed to take care of rest of the social functions and creative endeavours. Profession like engineering, arts, temple building, city planning were all done by the 4th class.<p>I would argue this isn&#x27;t any different from today. In order to become professor or researcher(Brahmin) you need a qualification. In order to become a soldier you need to join army. Entrepreneurs and business people drive the world of commerce. Similarly rest of the professions exist too.<p>Colonial Europeans turned this system into rigid caste based system. which slowly changed over to rigid system as society went into preservation mode as noted by dilippkumar in a comment.<p>India was the only society without slavery as noted by various travellers. Until English colonial forces destroyed it systematically, India had an education system in which major beneficiary were the so called lower caste of today. Here is another short summary with further references.[3]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scroll.in&#x2F;article&#x2F;882736&#x2F;caste-system-in-india-has-its-roots-in-europe-and-the-link-goes-beyond-than-just-the-word" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scroll.in&#x2F;article&#x2F;882736&#x2F;caste-system-in-india-has-i...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qr.ae&#x2F;pN4tBC" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qr.ae&#x2F;pN4tBC</a> (Skanda Purana Vol.18 Book VI , Nagar Kanda , Chapter 239 , Verse 31-34)<p>[3] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.indianscience.org&#x2F;essays&#x2F;DHARAMPALINTRODUCTION(Pankaj).shtml" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.indianscience.org&#x2F;essays&#x2F;DHARAMPALINTRODUCTION(Pa...</a>

Why is this on HN? This is clearly political.

Guess which &quot;caste&quot; is on the bottom. You&#x27;ve all seen it.

This interview seems one sided though. I know that for last two decades Brahmins and other so called upper caste Indians have been protesting India’s quota system which is basically affirmative action whereby certain percentages of college seats and job vacancies are reserved only for people who do not belong to the upper castes. So there have been numerous occasions where meritorious but poor upper caste youths did not get seats in colleges or were not selected in government or non government jobs and they went to the people from non Brahmin castes who were financially better off. Not trying to make a judgement here but just want to expose both sides of the argument. And even in California we are planning to do the same where a certain percentage of college seats will be reserved for people from only certain ethnicity or background.