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Apple tells Telegram to take down protestor channels in Belarus

1512 pointsby tomekwover 4 years ago

83 comments

_RPL5_over 4 years ago
Here is a source in Russian [0] saying that Apple is asking Telegram to remove messages that de-anonymize Belorussian police members, rather than blocking channels outright. I don&#x27;t know whether their source is reliable, but here is the relevant snippet (google translate):<p>&gt; Apple says it didn’t require any channels to be removed. But they demanded to immediately remove any information that discloses someone&#x27;s data on the Internet without the consent of these persons, as well as content aimed at specific people in accordance with the rules of the App Store.<p>This refers to the efforts of the Belorussian opposition to &#x27;unmask&#x27; members of the riot police by posting their personal details online. Without going into the moral weeds, from the terms-of-service point of view that&#x27;s basically griefing, no?<p>So this is a very curious quandary Apple finds itself in. Let&#x27;s assume that griefing Belorussian law enforcement is a good thing. But at the same time griefing people (regardless of whether they are bad&#x2F;good&#x2F;chaotic neutral) is against the TOS.<p>So what do you do if you are Apple?<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tjournal.ru&#x2F;tech&#x2F;221326-apple-zayavila-chto-ne-trebovala-udalit-telegram-kanaly-i-rasskazala-o-sodeystvii-so-storony-durova" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tjournal.ru&#x2F;tech&#x2F;221326-apple-zayavila-chto-ne-trebo...</a>
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rzwitserlootover 4 years ago
This keeps being posted and keeps disappearing, so I&#x27;m going to not link to it, but when you search around, a post on telegram by Pavel Durov explains that apple has in fact made 2 demands: Take down the private information __and__ in addition to that, do so silently: Do not replace it with a notice explaining which part of apple&#x27;s guidelines were breached, because that would be &#x27;irrelevant&#x27; info.<p>Apparently, whilst the quandary is real, apple is either living on a different planet than I am, or doesn&#x27;t care, and decided to pepper in something that the vast majority (I would assume) find distasteful 1984 stuff.
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DaiPlusPlusover 4 years ago
Through what right or means can Apple demand this, though? Telegram is a platform for user-generated content and it seems odd for Apple to single-out those 3 channels&#x2F;groups specifically - what about the hundreds of thousands of other objectionable groups on Telegram?<p>And why Telegram in particular? Why doesn&#x27;t Apple give the same ultimatum to Facebook to pressure them to block access to militant ethnonationalist groups - or for a more-fair comparison: Awful groups on WhatsApp.<p>If there&#x27;s one thing worse than burdensome walled-garden rules, it&#x27;s inconsistent enforcement of them.
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john_minskover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m from Belarus. Honestly, I&#x27;m surprised Apple gives a shit. Now I&#x27;m worried that Apple can cooperate with local police in case they make inquiry. Am I safe?<p>Here is the link to one group that uses ML to de-anonymize people: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;FAJIrnphTFg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;FAJIrnphTFg</a>
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PureParadigmover 4 years ago
This is a complete double-standard. Telegram messages are user-generated content. Is Apple going to start blocking websites in the Safari app? I&#x27;m sure one could find a lot worse things than doxxing by using Safari.
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nickppover 4 years ago
So it was fine when Apple banned Infowars but now it’s different?<p>This is exactly what those free speech advocates meant when talking about slippery slopes: you either support free speech or censure. There is no middle ground.<p>Disclaimer: I think Infowars is pure, evil sh*t.
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lukejduncanover 4 years ago
Why does an App Store have any say in the content of an online community? I’m sure there is plenty of content on Reddit that Cupertino censors may not like. Can &#x2F; do they apply similar pressures to other social media companies with iOS apps?
notRobotover 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;136" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;136</a><p>&gt; <i>Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”.</i><p>Fucking hell, Apple.<p>----<p><i>cough</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_of_Truth" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nineteen_Eighty-Four#Ministry_...</a>
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Andrew_nenakhovover 4 years ago
Whenever I was in a discussion on HN with Apple fanboys, who were saying how happy they are with no sideloading of apps on iOS, I was telling them to imagine if Apple will remove the app they need for some reason, like request from an authoritarian regime. In the future I&#x27;ll be pointing not only to unavailability of chat apps in China, but also to this.<p>Apple monopoly on iOS platform must be broken, and Apple should be forced to allow third party appstores and third party push notifications.
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poloteover 4 years ago
What&#x27;s interesting here, early today the most upvoted comments where very negative towards Apple, and now that the US people have woken up, the most upvoted comments are closer to have a neutral tone.<p>Actually I was surprised this morning to see Apple criticized on HN (40% of HN visitors use Apple devices, Windows 21 %, Linux 8% and Android 15% ) as it is rarely the case, the explanation is simple, Apple fanboys were sleeping
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ffpipover 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;135" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;135</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;136" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;136</a><p>I made a post about this. Looks like some filter is taking down all t.me links.
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cagefaceover 4 years ago
This feels like a step beyond the control Apple has exercised over apps previously. Threatening your access to the app store because they don&#x27;t like the way you&#x27;re censoring user generated content is beyond the pale and should finally bring regulators down like a ten ton hammer on them.<p>Once again we are reminded that power inevitably corrupts and must have limits. What a sad state to find Steve&#x27;s scrappy underdog company in.
samatover 4 years ago
Apple reps told Russian media outlet TJournal that they did not demand channel takedown, they requested to take down only specific posts containing personal information of police officers.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tjournal.ru&#x2F;tech&#x2F;221326-apple-zayavila-chto-ne-trebovala-udalit-telegram-kanaly-i-rasskazala-o-sodeystvii-so-storony-durova" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tjournal.ru&#x2F;tech&#x2F;221326-apple-zayavila-chto-ne-trebo...</a>
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zucker42over 4 years ago
It&#x27;s pretty unfortunate that Apple is willing to support an authoritarian regime to the point of requiring an app to censor its users. I wonder how this came to Apple&#x27;s attention; was it requested by Belarus&#x27;s government? And I wonder what the consequences of Telegram not complying would be.<p>It&#x27;s unclear why they would demand this, given that Google seems to not need to make similar demands.<p>This also seems like it encourages repressive governments to cajole Apple to pressure apps to remove user content in the future.
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jarymover 4 years ago
&gt; Previously, when removing posts at Apple’s request, Telegram replaced those posts with a notice that cited the exact rule limiting such content for iOS users. However, Apple reached out to us a while ago and said our app is not allowed to show users such notices because they were “irrelevant”.<p>Shame on Apple really. Shame on them for creating a walled garden that has become a liability for multiple parties even those unconnected to the iOS ecosystem.<p>“Irrelevant” could turn into the mother of all class action lawsuits.
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Renaudover 4 years ago
By allowing itself to overreach into user-content, Apple is setting enough precedents that it will not be able to refuse blocking more and become a moderator for all apps, threatening any with removal if they don&#x27;t comply.<p>That&#x27;s a very dangerous path Apple is taking, caving to the demands of dictatorial and corrupt governments.<p>I&#x27;m hoping that this move will put Apple in hot waters, at least it should come under scrutiny.<p>But I&#x27;m not naive enough to believe that this sort of action will not become more prevalent.
redwoodover 4 years ago
This makes me sick to my stomach. My wife just got her third Apple product. We&#x27;ve been happy customers.<p>I&#x27;ve been following the news out of Belarus even if there isn&#x27;t much hope at least the world has been witnessing.<p>How dare they. This is just appalling.
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zeptoover 4 years ago
Why doesn’t telegram just ignore the request?<p>Saying “we don’t feel like we have much choice” is a cop out.<p>For those that say Apple is morally compromised for collaborating with the oppressors, why is the same not true for Telegram complying with Apple (the oppressor in this case)?<p>Yes, Apple <i>could</i> remove Telegram from the store in Belarus, but that would definitely be a disproportionate response, and would have much more of an impact on Apple.
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ffpipover 4 years ago
What next? Taking down Netflix shows that show apple in a bad manner?
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jb1991over 4 years ago
The 1984 metaphor is frequently cited as a great irony here. It’s a well-known theme however, consider Game of Thrones: a dragon queen frees the oppressed of the world with a movement to make all the societies a better place, until it is revealed that she’s actually just power-hungry and wants to control it all, even if it means destroying it all. Sometimes you have to wait to the end to put the beginning motivations in context. I would argue that the famous 1984 commercial was motivated more by jealousy, that another company was ruling the industry, and not them.
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latexrover 4 years ago
Tim Cook’s twitter bio[1] has the following:<p>&gt; “Life&#x27;s most persistent and urgent question is, &#x27;What are you doing for others?&#x27;” - MLK<p>Considering this and the HKmap.live[2] situations, I’d say that in his case the answer to that question is “not much”.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;tim_cook" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;tim_cook</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;HKmap.live" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;HKmap.live</a>
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hykoover 4 years ago
Apple’s defence is IANAG (I am not a government). That’s fine, but it works both ways: we must remember when observing their marketing campaigns that buying nice things <i>will not</i> and <i>cannot</i> create a democratic and liberal world order.
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angry_octetover 4 years ago
Astounded that Apple is choosing to flush their privacy &#x2F; human rights cred globally down the shitter over the slight possibility of losing market share in the tiny economy of Belarus...
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eeccover 4 years ago
Hold on... it’s not quite as clear-cut as the Apple-haters that joyously jumped in put it.<p>These channels are not about a platform for freedom of speech and rallying for peaceful demonstrations.<p>Nope. It’s about exposing PII of public officials; names and home addresses? Take pause to appreciate the possible consequences of this. What could possibly go wrong?<p>Now I agree that Belarus officials are complicit or actively engaging in violations of personal freedom, violence and persecution.<p>But calling out individuals with the not-so-subtle encouragement for personal confrontation and violent retribution is illegal and frowned upon in all democratic societies.
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fimdomeioover 4 years ago
The question is who is responsible for inciting violence? The people that post the messages, telegram for allowing people using their platform to post some messages, or apple for allowing an app to allow it&#x27;s users to post a message. Why does apple have anything to say in this matter. It sounds crazy to me.<p>Or maybe, who knows, the violence is being caused by an opressive regime. Since Apple feels it as the right to interveen is it also taking actions agains the Belarus government?<p>Apple please let me know to which mail should I start sending the mail messages I send from my macbook, so I can get your approval.
zelon88over 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t get why American companies seem to regularly align themselves with authority like this. Apple has more yearly profits than the GDP of Belarus. Why does Apple play by the rules of Belarus. Honestly, if I had the power and influence of Apple I&#x27;d run my business in these third world sections of the world just like I run them in America. Arguably Apple has more weight on people in these regions than local governments do.<p>Stand up and do what&#x27;s right. You&#x27;re an American company doing the bidding of a corrupt organization that&#x27;s not even as big as you are. Grow a pair.
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newscrackerover 4 years ago
The App Store is unraveling! What has Apple done on Facebook or Twitter? Is the matter that those platforms have some kind of content moderation that answers to governments and Telegram does not (so Apple becomes an intermediary)?<p>With all the talk about how Apple cares about human rights, the CEO and senior management seem to be there as bystanders.
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brainlessover 4 years ago
&quot;Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely&quot;<p>Make no mistake, Apple is a very powerful company.<p>I have admired this company as an aspiring kid growing up in a city in India. It had stories, dreamy stories, things I believed in.<p>Now it&#x27;s all money and absolute control. The very things I consider harmful to society. This is no longer that Apple. And, yes 1984.
duncan_bayneover 4 years ago
It&#x27;s almost like it&#x27;s a bad idea to run hardware and software that prevents you from running software they don&#x27;t approve.<p>As we keep on seeing time, and time, and time again.
greenyodaover 4 years ago
Previous discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24722130" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24722130</a>
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askvictorover 4 years ago
This surely isn&#x27;t going to play well in the upcoming court case v Epic.
projectileboyover 4 years ago
Employees, how do you feel about this? This isn’t “iTunes is still hard to use”, this is helping to shut down people who are fighting against fascism.
abvdaskerover 4 years ago
This is obscene overreach by Apple. I know I shouldn&#x27;t be surprised at this point, but Apple using their power as the distributor of Telegram&#x27;s app to censor <i>legal</i> user-generated content on the platform is just outrageous.<p>Add this incident to the rapidly growing body of evidence proving every privacy advocate&#x27;s arguments against centralized systems. Some time soon I hope the tech community finds its way back to federated&#x2F;p2p modes of distribution and communication so we can make this kind of censorship -- and the companies which enforce it -- a thing of the past.
jacquesmover 4 years ago
And this is why walled gardens are structurally wrong. As soon as you have one you take implicit responsibility for what goes on in there <i>and</i> you will be forced to take sides in large scale disputes.<p>What serves the people of Belarus at the moment (and I know some people on the ground there that have had <i>terrible</i> things done to them at the hands of the governments goons) does not serve Apple because their terms of service did not in any way foresee the kind of situation that Belarus finds itself in.<p>As soon as you step in to an argument like that you may find that your precious principles are going to be tested like they have never been tested before. And Apple just came up wanting, the Belarus authorities are a criminal bunch and do not deserve the protections normally afforded to individuals acting on behalf of the state. They are facing off with the population from the comfort of anonymity, beat them, rape them and sometimes even kill them. Having them identified makes them at least moderately responsible for their actions, and Apple has absolutely no business interfering in this.
dikaioover 4 years ago
We need a better OS, similar to Ubuntu and Firefox models... an OS developed and maintained by the community that won’t do what every the government asks them to do because it’s in the governments or corporations best interest and not the people’s. I often hear the phrase “we are many” but many means nothing if you use tools that the people in control, control.
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choegerover 4 years ago
Apple really wants to fight a battle over their storey don&#x27;t they? It looks like the actively make a case for a lex Apple.
intricatedetailover 4 years ago
Apple gets high on their power. Toxic ecosystem and one to avoid.
spacemanmattover 4 years ago
Apple licks the boot every day.
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hamiltontover 4 years ago
Regardless of your opinion on whether it&#x27;s acceptable, given what is happening in Belarus, that the protestors are working to identify riot police as a way to &quot;fight back&quot;....it&#x27;s quite interesting (to me at least) that Apple is trying to direct the actions of an app developer after users have already installed that application. Is Apple now the arbitrator of &quot;what computations are allowable on the device you purchased&quot;?
z3t4over 4 years ago
The problem is not that a private company can prevent democracy, the problem is that said company is also the only choice when it comes to free speech and communication.
y04nnover 4 years ago
There is something terribly wrong here. Imagine Microsoft asking Facebook to block access to some Facebook groups for Windows&#x2F;IE users. Yes Telegram is on the AppStore distributed by Apple, but it&#x27;s a free app, just a enhanced web app. Apple wants to have control on what you know, what you see, what you think. I&#x27;m not going to buy an Apple product any time soon, despite the hardware and software being the best you can get.
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esolytover 4 years ago
You won&#x27;t see this article on &quot;tech journalism&quot; websites. They will instead talk about how the upcoming iPhone 12 will be the best iPhone yet.
Ceezyover 4 years ago
Seems like Apple only asks to delete specific messages and not the channel itself. Mind you RT is obviously not 100 credible. But this story lack sources anyway. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rt.com&#x2F;russia&#x2F;503030-apple-telegram-delete-channels-belarus&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rt.com&#x2F;russia&#x2F;503030-apple-telegram-delete-chann...</a>
tmp20201010over 4 years ago
The relevant piece is this: &quot;Apple is requesting that Telegram shut down three channels used in Belarus to expose the identities of individuals belonging to the Belarusian authoritarian regime that may be oppressing civilians&quot;<p>Exposing identities of individuals is problematic. There are examples of bad things happening when these kind of messages spread through messaging apps.
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ngcc_hkover 4 years ago
A problem hk faced as well. But to threat to shut down telegram is not the right move. You do not kill a platform.
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robert_fossover 4 years ago
So the solution would be to block that channel on Apple devices? And maybe noting that Apple made them block it.
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_zamorano_over 4 years ago
Does Apple have a strong user base in Belarus? I don&#x27;t think many protestors can afford their devices.
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urzaover 4 years ago
I know I am two days late but anyway, if anyone is not familiar with what is going on in Belarus, this reporter is doing superb job on twitter: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;franakviacorka" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;franakviacorka</a>
MrXORover 4 years ago
Apple bans RSS in China<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;09&#x2F;30&#x2F;apple-removes-two-rss-feed-readers-from-china-app-store&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;09&#x2F;30&#x2F;apple-removes-two-rss-feed...</a>
arielmover 4 years ago
Interesting to note - downloads from the App Store are much lower than from Google Play.<p>In belarus it’s about 3 to 1. Globally it’s about 10 to 1.<p>This isn’t to say any of this is good, but I wonder if Telegram can behave differently by platform (ex. A blacklist of channels on iOS).
ericmayover 4 years ago
There sure do seem to be a lot of attacks on “centralized app stores” these days. Wonder who is standing to gain from this. Interesting how it only came about so heavily after the US targeted Huawei...<p>But what do I know
nmstokerover 4 years ago
It seems a surprise Apple and Telegram can&#x27;t find a better compromise from a global perspective. Bear in mind they&#x27;re being pushed around by a country of just 9.5m people.
swileyover 4 years ago
It is not possible to communicate on iOS without risk of being censored or attacked.<p>Using these platforms is responsible, if it doesn&#x27;t affect you it will affect vulnerable people.
LockAndLolover 4 years ago
People will never learn: don&#x27;t buy Apple products. You&#x27;re locking yourself in. It&#x27;s your own damn fault you bought their device. It&#x27;s their device and their OS. They can and will dictate whatever they like.<p>If you&#x27;re doing something that hurts their bottom line, don&#x27;t be surprised when they take measures to curtail those actions. They&#x27;re a company.<p>If you don&#x27;t want to support their actions, don&#x27;t buy their products. It&#x27;s that simple. Maybe the Belarussians concerned by this can now actually get rid of their Apple products and buy something else.<p>Does the desktop app support groups? If it does, then get the desktop app.
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jyriandover 4 years ago
Never thought a news site can manage to place so many ads on my small iPhone screen. It&#x27;s unreadable. Do you know what is the original source for this?
Kelamirover 4 years ago
There&#x27;s the petition &quot;Asking Apple to not block Telegram channels of Belarusian peaceful protest&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.change.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;apple-asking-apple-to-not-block-telegram-channels-of-belarusian-peaceful-protest" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.change.org&#x2F;p&#x2F;apple-asking-apple-to-not-block-tel...</a><p>Yesterday&#x27;s discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24722130" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24722130</a>
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K0baltover 4 years ago
Would Signal be a good replacement in this case?
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jayp1418over 4 years ago
Seriously use librem 5 or pinephones
tw04over 4 years ago
Imagine Apple demanding telegram remove data providing personal information about the nazi officers running Auschwitz... these are government employees caught Assaulting citizens while masked and refusing to identify themselves. They lost all right to privacy when they decided to support the current attempted dictatorial takeover.
lightgreenover 4 years ago
That’s misleading title: channels doxxed corrupt law enforcers. I’m not saying it is good or bad (I don’t know, what do you think?), just pointing to significantly incomplete title.<p>And another very interesting question is: who complained to Apple? Obviously it is not Apple itself monitored these channels.
tripzilchover 4 years ago
Who the f--- Apple thinks they are to decide this for the people in Belarus??
yyykover 4 years ago
The amazing thing, if I&#x27;m reading this right, is that this is <i>global</i> censorship. That is, no iOS user in the world will be able to read these channels.<p>Using the App Store, Apple is making the Belarus&#x27; dictatorship&#x27;s censorship apply even in democracies.
seebetterover 4 years ago
I just want to point out that we don’t have to put up with this endless creepy corporate invasion of our lives. Eventually Apple, Google and these other behemoths will be disrupted and displaced by technology.<p>The curve favors the individual not the corporation or the state.
mensetmanusmanover 4 years ago
What drives decision makers to want an extra million dollars at the expense of the already-poor?<p>You would think Apple would be content with its billions and could care less whether authoritarians are mad it them because protesters are evading abuse in prisons.
DoingIsLearningover 4 years ago
If protestors were to prove that the loss of access to the information from these channels lead to their imprisonment and subsequent torture, could they take Apple to the ICC in the Hague, for crimes against Humanity?
malaya_zemlyaover 4 years ago
fwiw Apple also bans any 18+ channels on iOS and MacOS, so Apple&#x27;s censorship of Telegram is not a new development.
Nginx487over 4 years ago
Exposing personal data surely may violate Apple&#x27;s TOS. However, obeying the law make sense only in the system, playing by fair rules. If the system is unfair, being honest, if the system is a crazy totalitarian regime, disobeying the law is one of ways to contain it.<p>To understand the situation in Belarus by example, imagine former Nazi concentration camp guards, protesting against exposing their identities, because Israeli security forces may come after them. Crazy analogy you would say, but Belarusian people call their police and KGB Nazis.
rubyist5evaover 4 years ago
I wonder what side of the American Revolution or even the American Civil War that Apple would be on if it were taking place today..
mheilerover 4 years ago
Apple is taking sides with the oppressors. Shameful but predictable: &quot;When it comes to hanging the capitalists they will sell us the rope.&quot; (supposedly Lenin)
dc1rjjover 4 years ago
Well, don&#x27;t buy Apple...
salimmadjdover 4 years ago
OT - Apple should have removed Telegram months ago.<p>Telegram has been used to share some very bad COVID disinformation.<p>My father who is older and lives in Iran shared with me this video about how to treat COVID. It was produced really nicely in the Farsi (Persian) language.<p>Anyone who has ever read the book &quot;Made to Stick&quot; (highly recommended) would immediately that this video was designed to be a viral disinformation campaign.<p>The video started so credibility talking about the virus, the family of virus it belongs to, it talked about genetics similarities, etc. All seem very credible. Then it comes the disinformation gotcha:<p><i>To defeat COVID (with some beautiful inside the lungs animation ) talking about alveoli and how they function, when you are indoor you need to laugh deeply and very hard. This laughing hard gets rid of the virus, etc. etc.</i><p>Great idea, right? Seems like a way to exacerbate the spread of a deadly virus.<p>To me the quality of video made me think it was probably produce by a state or entity working for a state with budget.<p>If that is so I considered this incident as one of the first examples of using disinformation to commit genocide.<p>The problem with Telegram team working from the United Arab Emirates, it&#x27;s unclear to me if it&#x27;s being used to weaponize disinformation for evil means or not. From what I have seen, I believe, Telegram is being misused and it needs to be removed from the App Store.
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estover 4 years ago
s&#x2F;Belarus&#x2F;Hongkong&#x2F; and get 1,000 points.
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sradmanover 4 years ago
The source of the information is Telegram founder Pavel Durov [1] who posted on the Telegram platform [2] [3] (links via ffpip).<p>This is part of the 2020 Belarusian Protests [4]. Three Telegram accounts, dedicated to doxing police officers associated with the authoritarian regime of Alexander Lukashenko, have been requested to be taken down by Apple.<p>Durov is politically libertarian and is in self-imposed exile after his own struggle with the regime in his Russian homeland.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Pavel_Durov" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Pavel_Durov</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;135" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;135</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;136" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;t.me&#x2F;durov&#x2F;136</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2020_Belarusian_protests" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;2020_Belarusian_protests</a>
SubiculumCodeover 4 years ago
Two stories here, and one is definitely about modern monopolies.
unnouinceputover 4 years ago
Apple is irrelevant in former communist countries, Android is king here. So yeah, Telegram can shut down those channels for iOS, leave them be for Android. It will change nothing.
docPanglossover 4 years ago
Apple is more like a cult with totalitarian rule. Google is not too far behind.<p>Both track your every move&#x2F;conversation and share ALL your data with government agencies via the PRISM surveillance program led by the NSA (Google joined PRISM in 2009; Apple in 2012).[1] These BigTech companies&#x2F;PRISM members are beyond the law because they are defacto extensions of Big Brother Surveillance. If Apple were to make a PRISM break from membership, then it would likely receive lawsuits for tax evasion and monopoly behavior (antitrust). Understand the game?<p>Consider This About Apple:<p>• Apple uses offshore quasi-indentured-servant labor to bypass labor- and wage-laws;<p>• The rotten fruit evades the spirit of taxation by setting up shell companies in Ireland, tiny islands, Nevada, etc. to hoard billions of un-taxed dollars in these vehicles;<p>• The BigTech Global Company uses monopoly-like power to control its users behavior and even inserts forms of malware to make the OS perform slower and&#x2F;or drain the battery to encourage users to upgrade their phone! . . .<p>&gt;&gt; Remember, freedom (Liberty) requires continual effort lest one becomes enslaved.<p>Google, to its credit, still provides open source software of the Android OS for anyone to port and modify. It’s called Android Open Source Project (AOSP). Anyone who makes a modest effort can install AOSP on a non-apple device – even many older phones.<p>There are a myriad of open-source and partial open-source custom ROMs that are often built using AOSP, but not exclusively – Ubuntu Touch, Replicant, Resurrection Remix, PureOS, LineageOS, TizenOS, ParanoidAndroid, KaiOS, PostmarketOS, etc.[2]<p>One may simply flash a custom ROM on their used or new non-Apple device. Take 30 minutes to read instructions on any number of tech forums such as xda-developers.com, for one example. What you will realize is stable custom ROMS are more secure than native stock OS by Apple and Google. And, one may modify the custom ROMS as any lover of freedom chooses.<p>There are also devices coming to market that have kill switches that disable cellular tracking by PRISM, etc.: Purism’s Librem 5, Pine64&#x27;s PinePhone, OpenPandora’s DragonBox, etc. And, these organizations are honorable and community-driven, either partly or entirely.<p>So, just because a lot of people won’t make the tiny effort to liberate themselves from evil (and continue to justify a “walled garden” implemented by said evil rotten fruit), doesn’t mean the small number of people who choose liberty over security should be sacrificed at the alter of evil.<p>No laws or regulations are necessary. Vote with your dollars and actions.<p>Wake the Flock Up, People!<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;PRISM_(surveillance_program)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;PRISM_(surveillance_program)</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_custom_Android_distributions" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;List_of_custom_Android_distrib...</a>
tus88over 4 years ago
WTF this is bad.
neimanover 4 years ago
While I&#x27;m against doxing, what right does Apple have to tell Telegram what to do?
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dwarduover 4 years ago
It started with Alex Jones
crypticaover 4 years ago
If Apple starts messing with politics, then politics has to start messing with Apple. Break up Apple. Seize their assets.
hexbinencodedover 4 years ago
Don&#x27;t use corporate apps and platforms for popular movements. They make the rules and they continue their inverted totalitarian takeover of public commons when more people depend on them for civic activities. Furthermore, they cooperate with intelligence services. It&#x27;s too big of a risk to depend on them.<p>And, they used craptacular Telegram instead of Signal. Dumb.
haroldegibbonsover 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t see much difference between big tech and dictatorships. They rule and govern people, they extract their wealth, and they crush or buy off all opposition. It can&#x27;t last and I&#x27;m genuinely concerned for bigwigs and common people alike. It&#x27;s easy to become disconnected from reality when you&#x27;re that rich, and I don&#x27;t think the masses are going to buy the &quot;we&#x27;re just a tech company&quot; thing much longer.
pleasebegoodover 4 years ago
Apple is a US company. If Belarus people want those channels, they should build their own device or get an android. I fully support apple taking action on violence and doxing rather than bending down to other country&#x27;s people or apps like telegram.<p>If tiktok refused to take down doxing of officials in US, it would get banned.
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