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U.S. faculty job market tanks

258 pointsby SQL2219over 4 years ago

18 comments

supernova87aover 4 years ago
I mean, isn&#x27;t it clear, ever since the bulk creation &#x2F; funding of so many colleges (and faculty positions) pre + post WW2, the US faculty job market has been on a decline ever since -- (that is, from the average postdoc&#x27;s point of view of success % when seeking a faculty position).<p>You do understand right, that the faculty system relies on a pyramid of people entering and leaving the system? And only a certain fraction getting to the top, and people having to vacate the top of the pyramid for anyone else to get there? (for stable, or in other words, stagnant fields)<p>When the US was in a college-building phase (funded by economic stimulus &#x2F; public programs), all these posts were new and empty, waiting to be filled. So it enabled a generation of new professors to fill those ranks. As that became stable, now instead of a fresh pyramid you fill with eager people (who think that&#x27;s still how easy it is), you have grad students and postdocs seeing who can outlast each other (or publish more) to get to the top through attrition or publishing prowess.<p>Certain fields, let&#x27;s say, pure math, or history, until a professor retires or dies, there&#x27;s just no spot for the people below even to compete for. That&#x27;s why you see people going to Asia, Middle East, etc. where the new money and universities are. Follow the money. I mean this is pure population pyramid, demographic stuff that you can predict. You almost don&#x27;t even need to know the student&#x27;s thesis topic to say what chance he&#x2F;she has of becoming a professor.<p>And Covid put all this on hold now -- or at least the departure end of the pyramid. No one in their sane mind would retire or give up their faculty position in this environment. And colleges can barely bring in enough revenue to maintain their classes, let alone expand some department. And yet you see stories of more students going into grad school for this limbo period.<p>Joining the climb up the ladder -- it&#x27;s not going to end well. Or, it&#x27;s going to be even worse than before, I&#x27;m guessing.
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aborsyover 4 years ago
I spoke with a famous dean who told me, to the effect that, we have been instructed to focus heavily on candidates with the right gender and certain attributes (that you may imagine). Basically if you are not born in this pool, forget it.<p>By the way, politics has got really extreme. Networks are super important. I see a lot of local hires. In some places, they only hire their own students or swap with students at partner labs.<p>With these developments, I doubt funding academia is efficient allocation of public resources. I support cutting funds. This system will not produce science. It’s shocking how much money is spent, and how many people are in the chain, each outsourcing the problem to someone below, until a graduate student typically an immigrant will simulate something.
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scopover 4 years ago
I was very close to entering graduate school for a particular field as I was absolutely in love with the research. My teachers considered me to be very talented and were grooming me for the elite schools for said field. However, the more research I did the more I realized how much hot air was being blown and how much ego was involved. I chose to not add my own ego and voice to that self inflated hall and instead taught myself to code (painfully and reluctantly).<p>Coding isn’t my passion and I still <i>love</i> that field. However, I just couldn’t in good conscience participate in it as I knew my ego would drive me far too much.<p>Coding isn’t particularly pleasant, isn’t something I would do in my free time, but it is interesting, keeps me humble, and pays the bills.
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ternausover 4 years ago
I feel the pain of people that want to stay in science and do not want to move to software engineering. At the same time, at the end of the graduate school many people loose their passion for science. I would recommend these people to learn how to write code and move to industry. The demand for programmers is pretty high.<p>P.S. I got PhD in theoretical Physics at UC Davis, but moved to Bay Area for a Machine Learning job.<p>I love Physics, and can get back to it after retirement, but right now now I am paid well, and more flexible. I like that I can choose company and geography. Postdocs and faculty members do not have this luxury.
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autocorrover 4 years ago
The Science news article reports that new STEM faculty jobs are at about a third of what they were last year. Like they say, universities, especially big public ones have had their finances nuked by the pandemic and imposed hiring freezes. The other aspect isn&#x27;t mentioned but I feel has to be the case, which is that if any faculty consider their retirement portfolio hurting they won&#x27;t elect to retire. That was certainly true last Spring when they would need to initiate the process to retire and create an opening for this cycle.<p>I&#x27;m glad I&#x27;m only finishing my first postdoc. It really sucks for people who are at the end of their second postdoc (year six post-PhD), which is effectively the limit for faculty hiring or additional postdocs. For them this is really the worst timing for the one critical year in their perhaps 15 year run-up from entering undergrad.
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advisedwangover 4 years ago
I&#x27;ve seen many postdocs creating &amp; recording online class material. I wonder if this will be used to turn some classes into recorded classes, reducing staff forever.
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medymedover 4 years ago
This might be a good time to be in grad school to weather the storm for a year or two, and then benefit from the likely upswing afterwards (if someone is intent on academia). Unless a substantial proportion of colleges go bankrupt and the number of job seekers increase even more.
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Simulacraover 4 years ago
I’m more interested to see how COVID will change, or perhaps do say with, the tenure system.
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TheMightyLlamaover 4 years ago
A few comments (if memory serves from my earlier reading of this thread) the faculty job market is a pyramid. With the number of people exiting the pyramid being very high due to the few positions at the top.<p>Is there another structure that would encourage a less severe forced exodus of people while maintaining their jobs?<p>As an aside this pyramid seems to me to function a lot like the government with the leader&#x2F;president at the top. Only the president has limited tenure. Should professors with tenure have a term limit too?
Kevin_Sover 4 years ago
I&#x27;ll be on the academic market next year. In my field (business), the market has been better than expected, but we are quite priviliged.<p>I&#x27;m hoping next year will be closer to normal, but I do have concerns about the long term future of the career I&#x27;ve chosen.
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tinyhouseover 4 years ago
The entire US university system is a joke. $40K&#x2F;year for similar academics you get almost for free in Europe. Hundreds of universities who rely on foreigners who come to the US for studies for their survival. And most of these foreigners are only coming because they want to immigrate and student visa is an easy entry ticket.
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HarryHirschover 4 years ago
Enrollment is down ~ 20 % this year at my regional institution, even at community colleges, which usually experience an upswing in enrollment during recessions enrollment is down. Even at top-100 institutions, like the University of Vermont, enrollment is down ~ 20 %. Must be a good year to get into Harvard or Stanford. There&#x27;s also the secular trend of decreasing student numbers, the echo of the baby boom is wearing off.<p>It&#x27;s bad. Neither party has a political response to the coronarecession, public institutions had their funding cut severely because states can&#x27;t print money, they have to balance their budgets. Private institutions will drop dead like bogflies. Ordinarily one wouldn&#x27;t cry for any of the many low-ranked sectarian colleges that will bite the dust, but their faculty will compete in the labour market.<p>And no political response is to be seen. Traditionally, under Democratic leadership the science budget is bigger, but we haven&#x27;t heard anything about that from the incoming Harris-Biden administration. It&#x27;s really bad and makes you want to vote Republican because of protectionism and reduced immigration.<p>The only safe funding now is soft money.
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stanriversover 4 years ago
I wonder what about administrator job openings?<p>Something tells me that they justified to themselves that all that bureaucracy still needs to be shuffled here and then shuffled there.
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m0zgover 4 years ago
Would be interesting to see a more detailed breakdown, as in STEM vs &quot;underwater basketweaving&quot; faculty. Could be that schools are trying to shed some dead weight and using COVID as an excuse to do so.
addictedover 4 years ago
Isn’t the fundamental problem here that old people are living a lot longer than we thought they would? So you have granted tenure (and pensions and retirement) to people who are gonna seek it for longer than you thought they would so you don’t have place and money for younger people. The same thing applies in the job market, where there is literally no place for someone hired in the last decade or two to grow in management because no one above them in the hierarchy is retiring. Then you have government jobs that are paying out pensions for way longer than anyone expected them to.<p>Over and above this the the government will not dare to cut any policies that would adversely affect old people because they are the only age cohort that votes reliably. What they will try and do is mess around with social security, which, ironically, is one of the few programs that both predicted the baby boomer issues and accordingly created a trust fund to handle that and is actually paid for.<p>All these costs are being picked up by younger generations and all they get in return are the olds complaining about why they can’t just do a part time job to pay for their college degrees like they did in the 60s (nvm that the changing pricing and salaries mean students today could work multiple full time jobs and not be able to pay their college tuition without loans while the boomers complaining could pay their college fees with their weekend burger flipping positions with no debt).
crb002over 4 years ago
Direct link to sci-hub on the front page is so COVID-19.
claudeganonover 4 years ago
My sister-in-law works as an adjunct at a local college. A few professors have retired as a result of COVID concerns (they’re back in person). Instead of hiring new faculty, drawing from any of the pool of long-standing adjunct staff, they’re instead just replacing them with more, new adjuncts.<p>I expect the future of American colleges and universities will follow this trend, where bloated administrations preserve their position and make the academic labor more and more precarious.
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RickJWagnerover 4 years ago
It was inevitable. Higher education has become an escalator for the wealthy. The value of the advanced degree has lost the shine it once had.<p>Education as a whole is due for a massive realignment. Courses can largely be taught online and at a fraction of the cost. Fitting butts into expensive seats and selling pricey books that are constantly re-written is not sustainable.