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I’m deaf, and this is what happens when I get on a Zoom call

376 pointsby qkeastover 4 years ago

24 comments

GEBBLover 4 years ago
I am deaf too and I echo the sentiments of the article. I’ve found Microsoft teams vital for me as it has auto captions enabled. Zoom doesn’t have this, so we have shifted away from using zoom completely.<p>Back in pre covid times, customer calls were done in a room over a conference speaker phone. I would be totally lost and would need to rely on my colleagues to help.<p>With Microsoft teams, I can run customer calls myself, relying on the captions (and the patience of the customer).<p>Massive thanks to Microsoft for spearheading accessibility. I hope you guys see this.
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djsumdogover 4 years ago
I worked for a company where our accessibility engineer was blind. He once took us through his world; speakers setup so we could hear his screen reader and get a feel for how he navigates websites.<p>I remember him starting the presentation saying, &quot;Can everyone see this? Good because I can&#x27;t.&quot;
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tduchemin1over 4 years ago
I&#x27;m a (hearing) son in an all-deaf family, and am a bit tired to wait for every single service to become accessible. Why not just be platform-agnostic? It&#x27;s the same problem that has been going on for non-captioned videos for years. If a captioning service is going to be exclusive to only Google Meet or Teams, then by definition, it&#x27;s not inclusive.<p>So when we come on Zoom with my parents, they use Ava <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ava.me" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ava.me</a> to caption what I say with their speakers on. It looks like a caption bar, floating on top of the screen, so when I share my screen they can still see captions.<p>My dad started using Ava at work where they use GoToMeeting. They just won&#x27;t move to Zoom easily so he gets access without having to shift the whole company on it.<p>The software also separates who says what neatly if you share a link in the chat and people connect to it. Also voices out what&#x27;s typed on the other end.
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gbh444gover 4 years ago
Hi Quinn! Coincidentally, I&#x27;ve been working on a sound visualizer which accurately translates sound to visuals, while preserving all the information and, what&#x27;s way more important, it transfers the &quot;sound symmetry&quot; which we often refer to as &quot;musical harmony&quot;. The visuals can be translated back to sound.<p>As someone with nearly perfect hearing and musical education background, I find the visuals oddly accurate when I also listen to the corresponding music. It can trivially distinguish human vowels, as those produce different recognizable shapes.<p>I&#x27;ve put together a few sample images and a live demo: check out &quot;github soundshader&quot; (the project that talks about ACFs). I&#x27;m really curious what you think about this.
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phendrenad2over 4 years ago
I&#x27;ve noticed that since everyone has gone remote, everyone wants to Zoom more. Things that could be a short discussion in Slack or a quick comment on a github PR are now a full-fledged Zoom meeting. I end up taking notes, which makes the meeting even more slow and awkward. If I were deaf, it would be impossible to do my job.
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nshepperdover 4 years ago
&gt; The team immediately spotted the tradeoffs: while Meet’s captions were built in, there’s no history, meaning each person had to dedicate their attention to the captions to make sure they didn’t miss anything.<p>I actually wrote a js bookmarklet to solve this problem by continuously capturing the caption updates and writing them into a separate window. It&#x27;s a little janky, but works (at least until Meet releases the next update that changes the obfuscated class names in the DOM). <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zlkj.in&#x2F;bookmarklets#record-meet-captions" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zlkj.in&#x2F;bookmarklets#record-meet-captions</a>
zxcvbn4038over 4 years ago
The captions feature of Google Hangouts is great if you can&#x27;t hear well, although sometimes it is akin to watching a &quot;bad lip reading&quot; video on You Tube which I&#x27;m sure nobody else notices because I&#x27;m the only one with them turned on.<p>The TDD service hasn&#x27;t changed since the &#x27;90s (1890? 1990? debatable) so I avoid it. It might have been amazing in the &#x27;60s but it is a punishment to use today compared to chat, messaging, e-mail, almost everything else.<p>Most banks don&#x27;t seem to get this and it is precious few that offer secure messaging as an option - First National Bank of Omaha is the best I&#x27;ve found. Citibank has excellent support via chat but all of their financial products are absolutely the worst and their fee structure should be considered usury. CapitalOne has amazing financial products but no provisions for the hard of hearing - if you send them a letter they will send you one right back saying &quot;Call our 800 number&quot; unless you explicitly write that you are writing them because you can&#x27;t use the phone. Thanks, CapitalOne, really helpful.<p>The absolute worst is Amalgamated Bank, as soon as they found out I couldn&#x27;t hear they closed my account and sent me my funds via cashiers check - two months days later.
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timerolover 4 years ago
&gt; For me, it was fascinating to see how our interactions changed over the course of the call. Everyone became more expressive in physical space.<p>I found this to be extremely useful, even when talking to people with normal hearing on a video call. Because the call omits so much context that is obvious when talking in person, it helps to overact emotions, especially if you don&#x27;t want to take valuable speaking bandwidth. (Or worse, talk over someone, which happens much less elegantly over video call.)<p>I took to overacting pretty immediately in the beginning of lockdowns, but noticed that I was one of the few doing it. And I am still not sure how to broach that conversation with people. &quot;Hi, I notice that you&#x27;re acting normally on this video call. It would be best for you to comically overact your emotions so that people can get a read on how you are reacting.&quot;<p>Some examples include nodding - moving almost from chin touching chest to staring at the ceiling, smiling - mouth wide enough to almost hurt, with a bit of space between the top and bottom rows of teeth, thumbs up - holding it right next to my head for 3+ seconds, and reconsidering something - hand over chin, almost covering mouth, with my entire head oriented up and away from the camera.<p>I&#x27;ve gotten good feedback on it, so I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s just me being weird. But it does sound odd now that I&#x27;ve written the examples out.
matrixover 4 years ago
There&#x27;s another really difficult challenge for hearing-impaired people not mentioned here: it&#x27;s mentally exhausting to follow online meetings, even with captions. Hearing impaired people have to very intently while also trying to make sense of lagging&#x2F;imperfect captions, and that&#x27;s a high cognitive load to sustain for long periods.<p>Accented English is particularly challenging, because otter.ai (used in Zoom) has very poor accuracy with the most common accents we encounter in software engineering.
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sand500over 4 years ago
We have tried both Meet and Zoom for the ASL class I am taking. Both are fine until the instructor needs to present a powerpoint. Zoom stops showing everyone&#x27;s video. Not sure if there is a difference between Zoom desktop app and Zoom chrome extension.<p>For Meet, it is nice that the instructor can present from a tablet but there is no way to hid the presentation video so it is way too small to see everyone signing.
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bowyakkaover 4 years ago
I am not deaf and I love captions and subtitles.<p>I will often watch movies with them one, it might be that I grew up with them as my father is deaf; but I find they give me more information than speech alone.
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_nalplyover 4 years ago
I am Deaf and I live in a country with diglossia. This means, transcripts fail if customers or colleagues switch to the other language (Swiss German, a bit like Dutch in being different from German). Additionally, there are sometimes customers talking in French or English. This means, video conferences usually don&#x27;t work for me. I either correspond by email only or have a Signed Language interpreter or a human transcriptor.<p>But nowadays I am quasi-retired anyway because of issues related to being limited in other ways and I am happy that way because I avoided some bullshit that comes with working for and with the corporate world since a few years. My quality of life has risen.<p>I still program just out of fun and I found another niche: counseling in life and juridical questions for Deaf and HoH people, and the little money is welcome.<p>You are welcome to ask here specific questions to avoid issues for Deaf and HoH people.
shadeover 4 years ago
This is a great article and being deaf myself, I have very similar experiences. Some thoughts...<p>I&#x27;m a heavy Otter user and find it well worth the subscription - I used it a lot even in person, and have used it more since we all started working from home. We use Teams for most of our meetings and I always switch the captions on there; one or the other sometimes lags, but usually not both at once. For family video chats, we use Google Meet, and it&#x27;s usually on par with Otter and Teams.<p>I have read a lot of positive comments of Google&#x27;s Live Transcribe and Recorder apps, but can&#x27;t evaluate them since I&#x27;m an iPhone user. Between this and the other hearing a11y features in recent Pixel phones, and me having one foot out of the Apple ecosystem anyway, I give serious thought to switching to a Pixel almost every year and one of these days I&#x27;ll actually do it.<p>Worth mentioning: Google added the Pixel&#x27;s Live Captions feature to Chrome and it&#x27;s in the beta and main channels, but it&#x27;s hidden behind a flag AND a setting, so you have to enable the flag, restart Chrome, and then confirm in settings that captions are turned on. I believe this is entirely on-device and it does work astonishingly well; I&#x27;ve used it on programming streams on Twitch and it handled the technical vocabulary better than I expected , if not flawlessly.<p>A US-centric point I should mention: for companies above a certain size, the Americans with Disabilities Act requires that they make reasonable accommodations for you. I have done this in the past to have a professional captioner. They&#x27;re more accurate, but inconvenient to schedule, usually have a bit more lag, and very expensive ($125 an hour was about average when I last had to get quotes for this). Not everyone wants to make the accuracy tradeoff and that&#x27;s fine - I understand their position - though I&#x27;m personally willing to because it makes it very easy to jump on a call with a coworker whenever I need to.<p>Quick notes on my setup: I have a 3.5mm splitter hanging off my work laptop&#x27;s headphone jack. One side goes to a ReSound Multi-Mic (which includes a 3.5mm jack) to stream the audio to my hearing aid. The other side has a TRS-to-TRRS cable going into my iPhone (via the audio to lightning adapter) or iPad to provide an audio stream for Otter to work on. USB webcam provides the microphone. I typically use my iPad since I can set it up under the monitor my video call is running on and then I don&#x27;t have to use screen space on my monitors to display the captions.<p>I really should write up a blog post about all of this, with photos.
extra88over 4 years ago
FYI, Zoom is getting built-in automated live captions very soon. It will be produced by Otter.ai, which already produces the recording transcriptions. With 3rd party live captions, there’s an option to see all the text in a sidebar so I assume it will also be possible with their automated live captions.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zdnet.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;zoom-meetings-you-can-now-add-live-captions-to-your-call-and-they-actually-work&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.zdnet.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;zoom-meetings-you-can-now-add-...</a>
TopInvestorover 4 years ago
For anybody interested the following equipment works the best: 1) Oticon hearing aids + TV streaming device connected to iMac via audio interface. It streams the audio from the computer to the hearing aids . 2) Teams + captioning. In order the person needing to see the captioning to see it he has to initiate the meeting and sharing the link. The link never expires and could be saved in Notes from all members of the group. The members of the group needs to share the meeting time via other means for example email , text message. Compared to Zoom, Google meetups Team has superior video, audio and captioning capabilities. There are desktop and iOS versions of Teams. No way to use Otter reliably with hearing aid device because it requires Chrome browser and needs physical sound from the speakers to work. Internal networking the sound is not working. 3) Phone calls - CaptionCall. It is free service paid by the FEDeral government. You sign up and receive dedicated phone number which you enter in settings for call forwarding. When you are calling or somebody is calling you CaptionCall is intercepting the call and forwards it for machine learning+ person transcriber. This is the best combination. 4) Messaging across devices -WhastApp. No video or audio captioning in iOS so - using only messaging. Used for announcing Teams meeting.<p>All other solutions do not do anything to accommodate-WebEx, BlueJeans, etc.<p>Microsoft is having the best accommodation service - there is dedicated web site with free 24&#x2F;7 support for people needing accommodation. One Teams account is just $5&#x2F;month and the support is responding within several hours.
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retracover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m on the flip-side of this. I have enough hearing that it is only sometimes a barrier. But I have an associated speech impediment. Voice recognition is always garbled.
AcerbicZeroover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m not deaf, but I don&#x27;t care what most people say - so having better zoom transcripts would make my life easier.
LockAndLolover 4 years ago
I was expecting the article to be about sign language over video and whether it&#x27;s a good experience or not. Does anybody here have experience with that and would they recommend it over captions?<p>Also, for someone who picked up sign language later in life, how difficult has it been to learn in your experience? Would it be a viable option to have a whole company take sign language courses in order to help become more disability friendly or would that be too much of a time investment with little reward?
bostonvaulter2over 4 years ago
&gt; Even sentence structure has changed: others have started to say names at the beginning of a sentence, rather than at the end.<p>I think this is a great pattern to be using all the time in meetings, especially larger ones.
Joakalover 4 years ago
1. Mobile phone<p>2. Google Live Transcribe app<p>This is how I handle Zoom meetings as partially deaf. Its fairly accurate and plus you can use a second mobile too. Downside is that it will pick up everyone, including your voice.
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shalmaneseover 4 years ago
I wonder if there&#x27;s a way to build a video codec that does automatic lip detection and sends the lip data in much higher resolution than the rest of the stream?
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aaron695over 4 years ago
&gt; because I was relying on a transcript that was five seconds behind.<p>I get it&#x27;s about many things, but I don&#x27;t understand why there is a 5 second lag on what is a solved problem. Solved decades ago.<p>Is it patient concerns?<p>This is also about a business issue, transcripts of meetings go past accessibility, so I don&#x27;t get why between the two reasons this isn&#x27;t solved.
mdipover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m glad to see someone bringing these points up. I have been dealing with mild hearing loss for a little while now and have found Teams closed captioning to be extremely helpful, but my hearing is good enough that I usually manage fine on my own.<p>My daughter is hard of hearing, requiring hearing aids for help. She also relies a lot on lip reading to disambiguate sounds that she has difficulty making out. We learned this year that her reliance on lip reading and visual cues was much more than we ever realized. In large groups of people, she relies on lip reading to help determine who the speaker is.<p>When our school announced that it was doing &quot;Zoom Meeting School&quot;[0] and if classes resume in-person, mask wearing would be mandatory. It&#x27;s tricky enough getting her accommodations at school -- and even with everything they offer, we knew that not being able to rely on lip-reading was going to put her at a huge disadvantage. We immediately enrolled our children in a local, public, online-only middle&#x2F;high school. They have a few live-lessons a week, on Teams. The rest is reading, taking tests, writing papers and video-learning.<p>Out of the two children who were moved to online school[1], our daughter had the easiest time adjusting, but all of them are doing better than they were in the traditional program[1]. We&#x27;d noticed a few years ago that she was the kid who would hop on YouTube and decide to randomly learn how to do something. I partly wonder if her having a harder time understanding teachers has caused her to discover that she&#x27;s a more efficient learner when she controls <i>how</i> it&#x27;s done.<p>We were initially alarmed when the first month of classes went by and the kids were finishing a day of school in three to four hours, tops (Friday was 30 minutes!), but we were the only family in our neighborhood who left the district and by comparison, they&#x27;re about a lesson ahead in everything and in addition to getting the best grades they&#x27;ve ever gotten, they actually <i>know</i> the material. It probably helps that my high-school son, who&#x27;s getting into some pretty intense classes, has the benefit of 9 hours of sleep at night, and can start learning with an alert, wide-awake mind.<p>Incredibly, <i>both</i> of my kids are still on the fence about going back to in-person. I think a few more months will change their minds. Their choices: (a) Wake up at 05:30 so you can look appropriate enough to avoid getting picked on, stand out in the cold waiting for a bus, spend 7 hours in an old, cinder-block building that has more design elements in common with a prison than a place designed to foster creativity and learning vs. (b) Wake up at ... whenever ... finish up 3-4 hours of work while having every convenience of home that isn&#x27;t allowed at school and have the freedom to experience life for the hours your friends are covertly sleeping through Math class.<p>[0] Our district has decided that the best approach to educating children is to simulate the classroom experience via a video call that the students must attend all day (with a two hour break).<p>[1] I have an odd parenting situation; two of my kids are home-schooled (parent-directed without professional educators) and two are (now) in online public school through a local school district.
centimeterover 4 years ago
&quot;we need to make work more inclusive for people living with disabilites&quot; - statements like this are pretty popular, and they sound nice to the first order. However, I have never once seen a statement like this accompanied by a utilitarian&#x2F;economic analysis of whether this would actually be socially beneficial given the (usually) small number of people involved compared to the (often) large cost of making the change. And whenever someone says &quot;would this really be worth it&quot;, responses vary from &quot;Wow, why do you hate the disabled?&quot; to &quot;You should be glad you&#x27;re not disabled&quot; - in any case, shaming the person asking this question rather than addressing the (reasonable) question.<p>About 2 in 1000 people in the US are deaf, and most of those are deaf due to old age, so they are not working anymore. I think it&#x27;s very unlikely that the marginal optimum is to spend more money optimizing for this subset of users.
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