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British hackers: stop voting for lizards; start voting for people today

199 pointsby MikeTaylorabout 14 years ago

12 comments

gjm11about 14 years ago
Recommended online reading:<p>Some high-quality discussion of this from Tim Gowers (mathematician, Fields Medal winner, very smart chap): <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/is-av-better-than-fptp/" rel="nofollow">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/is-av-better-than-fpt...</a> <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/av-vs-fptp-a-supplementary-post/" rel="nofollow">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/04/29/av-vs-fptp-a-suppleme...</a> <a href="http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/04/30/av-vs-fptp-the-shorter-version/" rel="nofollow">http://gowers.wordpress.com/2011/04/30/av-vs-fptp-the-shorte...</a> (if you're only going to read one -- and I wouldn't blame you, because they're very long -- read the last one).<p>Some nice graphics illustrating some pathologies with AV: <a href="http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/" rel="nofollow">http://zesty.ca/voting/sim/</a> (note: <a href="http://zesty.ca/" rel="nofollow">http://zesty.ca/</a> is full of interesting things).<p>Anti-AV material by an advocate of range voting (note: he dislikes plurality voting, aka first-past-the-post, even more): <a href="http://rangevoting.org/IrvPathologySurvey.html" rel="nofollow">http://rangevoting.org/IrvPathologySurvey.html</a>
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corin_about 14 years ago
(I voted "Yes" at 8am.)<p>If I didn't have any views on which system is better, I would have been pursuaded to vote Yes by the "Vote No" adverts, such as <a href="http://i.imgur.com/yCyLv.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/yCyLv.jpg</a><p>Admitedly, the campaign for "Vote Yes" has frankly been terrible as well, but in a way that makes you think they don't have a clue about marketing, rather than a way that makes you want to strangle whoever came up with the adverts.
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_b8r0about 14 years ago
I can't stand the Yes campaign. I really, really can't. The smug superiority of it all, the assumption that if you vote no you must be mentally ill and the inability to even debate. To be fair I've had a lot of exposure to people involved in the Yes campaign. I'm not someone who likes being patronised by a hive mind and that's exactly how the Yes campaign comes across.<p>On the logic of the campaign, giving the options available one should vote Yes, weighing everything up. However it will make no difference to me as my constituency is a safe tory seat, even with all the simulations.<p>Bear in mind that Nick Clegg opposed AV in the run up to the elections and was pushing for PR and you begin to see what this is. This isn't genuine electoral reform, this is tinkering around the edges. Whatever you vote for this is all you get. You're not pushing further towards a fairer system, you're choosing between two options laid out for you by people who've run the numbers and decided for you. Regardless of the outcome, all the politicians will say, "Well it's settled, the people have spoken", pat each other on the back and go back to their day jobs.<p>We haven't had a referendum since 1975. We won't get another one on voting for a long time. I'll vote Yes, but only because I know I won't see another chance to change things in my lifetime.
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josephShmoeabout 14 years ago
AV, or IRV (Instant Runoff Voting), is arguably the worst form of preferential voting in existence. Take this example of IRV totals for four candidates ordered by preference:<p>30% a; b; c; d<p>35% c; b; d; a<p>20% d; b; a; c<p>15% b; d; c; a<p>Given the voting breakdown, most people would agree that candidate b should win, because no candidate got a majority of first preference votes and b got a sweeping majority of second preference votes. However, under IRV, b is eliminated immediately, because b received the fewest first preference votes.<p>tr;dr: IRV is terrible, and has a history of being adopted in states and cities in the US only to be abolished not long after, because of the bad electoral outcomes it produces. If you're going to pick a preferential voting system, it ought to be one that at the very least preserves the Condorcet winner; IRV is not that system.
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Pahalialabout 14 years ago
All shortcomings of AV aside, as a Canadian who just watched a majority get in thanks to a combined 6,021 votes in some dozen marginal ridings, let me just say that I'm jealous of this referendum and I wish you the best.
nlabout 14 years ago
Speaking as an Australian (we have preferential voting): Almost <i>anything</i> is better than first past the post.
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udpabout 14 years ago
I still don't understand why the referendum is on AV and not PR. Most votes get <i>thrown away</i> because of this silly county-based system. If you live in a county which is heavily weighted towards a particular party, you <i>do not have a meaningful vote</i>.
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JonnieCacheabout 14 years ago
The local office of the Yes campaign is just across the corridor from us. Bigup.<p>Vote, people. Doesn't matter who/what it's for. Spoil your ballot if you have to. Just make your voice heard.
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arethuzaabout 14 years ago
I'm slightly disappointed that the title isn't a reference to the theories of David Icke.
revoradabout 14 years ago
Voted. It only took 5 minutes; there's no excuse not to.
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cturnerabout 14 years ago
Hi Mike. For once some politics on hacker news that has some relevance to me. I'm still flagging.<p>Voting systems are interesting algorithms to discuss, but politics is not. Please keep political stuff off hn.
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petercooperabout 14 years ago
<i>if you care about democracy at all — then get out and vote YES TO AV.</i><p>Get a grip. If one cares about democracy "at all" then they need to go out and vote Yes to one extremely narrow option that's only, arguably, mildly better than the status quo? This is nothing more than an appeal to emotion.
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