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The Persian Art of Etiquette (2016)

112 pointsby monortover 4 years ago

16 comments

maininformerover 4 years ago
I am Iranian, and I have to admit, taarof has been an interesting subject in my social interactions.<p>With other Iranians, I have no problem reading and sending social cues; with non-Iranians taarof makes me come off as super nice and kind. But what happened, when people repeatedly took me on on my taarofs, I grew silently very spiteful and distanced myself from them. If a guest is staying late we never ask them to leave, we ask them to stay for dinner and that is a cue that I am about to inconvenience myself and you have to leave, but more often than not, in situations like this, I ended up having a guest over for hours and then overnight lol.<p>It took me a while to rewire my brain to set the boundaries explicitly, and I have to admit it is still excruciatingly painful for me to reject someone; makes me feel very rude. Nonetheless this approach works great, I dare say a more straightforward culture allows for a better mental state by allowing explicit and clear boundaries for oneself.
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EB-Barringtonover 4 years ago
I spend around half my life in Iran (for the last eight years).<p>My favourite example, to show just how pervasive tarof is, was the occassion I was at the supermarket checkout of a large supermarket chain. The young cashier refused, several times, to accept my money. This, at a very western-style large supermarket chain. Of course, I paid. However, a similar thing happened to a Canadian guest I was once travelling with. At a mini-mart, he tried to purchase a bottle of water but the guy at the counter refused his money. The Canadian took the offer at face value, and left.<p>A few minutes later, a very sheepish guy come down the street asking the Canadian if he wouldn&#x27;t mind paying. Iranians will understand just how only-in-Iran this situation is.<p>One thing basically every foreigner who has visited Iran will agree on - tarof or not, Iranians are the warmest, most welcoming people on the planet. The truth is that an Iranian will never understand just how much fun it is being a foreigner in Iran, we really are treated well (tarof or not).
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yeezysznover 4 years ago
The key point to &#x27;taroof&#x27; is creating a tiny strain of egalitarianism in a deeply fragmented society.<p>The article mentions this a little.. &quot;in a hierarchical society such as Iran, where favours and services can be interpreted according to the stratum of the provider, this behaviour “produces social stability, because when both persons are doing this, they achieve equality”.&quot;<p>This is sort of similar to how strict dress codes (black tie etc.), despite being associated with the more pretentious elements of society, are actually deeply egalitarian. By telegraphing exactly what is and is not allowed, variation is diminished and stratification by social class is harder.<p>It obviously has its negative elements (and definitely adds friction to each interaction), but in an increasingly atomized world I find these tiny holdovers of tradition refreshing.
Mediterraneo10over 4 years ago
Tarof is so infuriating that, if you are a foreigner who wants to learn Persian, going to Tajikistan instead might be recommended: I don&#x27;t know if the practice never quite existed there in such an extreme form, or the Soviets stamped it out, but communicating with Tajiks is always so much more straightforward than with Iranians.<p>What always apalls me is foreigners traveling in Iran who rave about how hospitable the local people are, without bothering to learn about tarof. It is likely that the vast majority of invitations to people&#x27;s homes were not sincere, and by taking locals up on their not-actually-intended offers, those foreign travelers are probably causing great inconvenience (which their hosts will however do their best to mask).
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blendoover 4 years ago
Tarof in an intersection: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=XAvzW1WZsN4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=XAvzW1WZsN4</a>
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eganistover 4 years ago
Persian here.<p>It&#x27;s one of the most annoying and arguably toxic aspects of our culture. I understand it; I understand the perceived need for it, but I submit that it paradoxically does the exact opposite of what it intends to accomplish (&quot;social equality&quot;) because it directly diminishes the value of whoever ultimately &quot;loses&quot; the exchange, oftentimes whoever perceives a greater debt to the other person, which is generally the person of lesser social rank.<p>&quot;Taarof represents the kind essence of Iranian people. In our culture, it can be impolite to express ourselves in very a direct and objective way,” but it in fact demonstrates a kind of disrespect for both the other person&#x27;s time and validity, and I&#x27;d argue that by enforcing systemic dishonesty, it&#x27;s one of the main culprits of another far darker aspect of Persian culture:<p>Backbiting. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;iranian.com&#x2F;1998&#x2F;10&#x2F;13&#x2F;people-of-extremes&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;iranian.com&#x2F;1998&#x2F;10&#x2F;13&#x2F;people-of-extremes&#x2F;</a><p>---<p>Do not emulate this. Do not let this aspect of our culture become a part of yours. If you seek to be kind, do so by being kind, not by being nice.
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aminozuurover 4 years ago
In a nutshell, &#x27;taarof&#x27; is the social code whereby people fight for the lowest rank, as to show respect for the other person. It affects everything from the seat you take when entering a friends house, to how much you pay (you fight to pay the full bill, while your friend insists on him paying).<p>As a Persian aspie I feel this wastes time, and I prefer the blunt and direct communication style of the Dutch.
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lappetover 4 years ago
Huh a similar behavior exists in India where it is polite to say no the first time. However, it is definitely not part of every single social interaction. I have experienced this a lot when being offered food as a guest - my first few refusals are just ignored, as expected.
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dashtiarianover 4 years ago
I have lived in Iran for 26 years and have never had an issue with taarof. Old people just know I don&#x27;t do taarof and they&#x27;re fine with it. Young people don&#x27;t do it at all. In fact they&#x27;re so straight forward an American might find it rude (i.e business emails starts with no smalltalk).<p>The comments about our hospitality and generosity being fake is unfair and unfounded. It&#x27;s also very self centered of someone to have such claims based solely on their experience and perception. Iran is a big county with different cultures and very different behavior between generations. Do American boomers and GenX behave the same?<p>The comments about our language not being understandable because of taarof is also laughable. I have never done taarof. My friends and family don&#x27;t do taarof. My driver and food delivery guy get paid over a mobile app. My barber outright asks for tips. People who have chain migrated out of Iran ages ago and higher middle class people are not representative of all Iranians. We are just like you and everybody else.
baneover 4 years ago
There&#x27;s a similar cultural etiquette I&#x27;ve observed amongst Koreans around paying for the bill after eating a meal out together. It sometimes almost erupts into physical violence as several parties all fight for the bill in order to pay it.
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pooya13over 4 years ago
To those who say Iranians are not sincerely hospitable to foreigners, and that they are practicing Tarof. As an Iranian I can assure you this is not the case. Iranians love foreigners, to a fault, to the point that I have felt discriminated against in my own country.<p>Here is a little anecdote. I once saw a baker giving free samples to some tourists. I was there at the bazar to buy some souvenirs, so I decided to also try a sample, only to be told that “they do not give out samples”. Funny thing is, the tourists didn’t even want a sample while I had approached him with the explicit intention to buy (which I decided against after his treatment). But I don’t think he really cared as long as he got to have a positive interaction with the tourists.<p>I suspect a big factor contributing to this culture is how the Iranian public have been isolated, due to both the sanctions from the outside, and the Iranian government from the inside, to the point that foreigners are regarded as exotic people to be treated better than “ordinary” locals.
amerkhalidover 4 years ago
&gt; Once I paid a Tehran taxi driver 250,000 rials for the ride, a fare we had previously agreed on after a hard-fought negotiation. Oddly, the money was refused.<p>&gt; “Ghabel nadare,” he said smiling, indicating that he wouldn’t accept it.<p>&gt; Scratching my head, I insisted. Again he protested. Giving up, I thanked him in Farsi and left the vehicle with a grin on my face. “All is well,” I thought, incredulously.<p>&gt; “He was taarofing,” my friend Reza later explained. “Of course he expected you to pay. And you should have insisted more.<p>This is confusing, I say that as a Pakistani whose culture also has Taarof. Here is a TED talk[1] by someone with Persian parent and she states in this talk that a shopper, by insisting to pay for an item, insulted the shopkeeper.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=y9Trdafp83U" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=y9Trdafp83U</a>
leshokuninover 4 years ago
It&#x27;s funny because my Persian friends describe that their relatives expect taarof to be a thing elsewhere.<p>Here&#x27;s an example: my friend was not in the mood for breakfast. The host took it as a sign that he was taarofing. He insisted that he wasn&#x27;t. His persistence was seen as a sign that he really wants breakfast. The only way to make it stop while being polite was to take a bite. He was furious!
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lqetover 4 years ago
&gt; &quot;Individuals will seek to raise the other person&#x27;s status, and lower their own&quot;.<p>Isn&#x27;t this the very definition of politeness, anywhere in the world?<p>I read the beginning of the Wikipedia article on Taarof:<p>&gt; In the rules of hospitality, taarof requires a host to offer anything a guest might want, and a guest is equally obliged to refuse it. This ritual may repeat itself several times (usually three times) before the host and guest finally determine whether the host&#x27;s offer and the guest&#x27;s refusal are genuine, or simply a show of politeness. If one is invited to any house for food, then one will be expected to eat seconds and thirds. However, taarof demands that one can&#x27;t go ahead and help themselves to more food after finishing their first helping. Good manners dictate that one must first pretend to be full, and tell the host how excellent the food was, and that it would be impossible to eat any more. The host is then expected to say one should not do taarof (&quot;taa&#x27;rof nakon&quot; - similar to &quot;don&#x27;t be polite!&quot;), for which the appropriate response would be to say &quot;no&quot; two or three times, then pretend to cave in to the host&#x27;s insistence and pile on the food<p>To be honest, in this particular situation, I don&#x27;t see much of a difference (if any) to the area I am coming from (rural southern Germany). In my home area, it would certainly seem <i>very</i> strange to accept an offer to eat at someones house right away, without the usual &quot;no, that&#x27;s very nice of you, but I don&#x27;t want to cause you any trouble&quot;, etc. dance. Eating for example at a relative&#x27;s home, you would <i>never</i> ask for a second, and if a second was offered to you, the polite response would be to decline first. The host would then say something like &quot;but really, there is so much left, don&#x27;t be polite&quot;, and this would go on for 1-3 rounds, during which you are more or less expected to offer your second to other guests.<p>Regarding the taxi episode from the article: a few years ago, we were stranded in a snowy village in Austria. It would&#x27;ve been 3 hours by foot to our hotel. A friendly local drove us there. During the last minutes of the drive, I tried to offer this person some money out of gratitude, and it was a <i>very</i> long conversation that circled around my wife giving me discrete hints to offer him some money (but in such a way that he would be able to see that she was giving me hints), him politely hiding that he had noted her hints, me offering him some money, him refusing, me asking if he really didn&#x27;t want to take any money, we are so grateful, etc. In the end, he didn&#x27;t take any money, and it was clear he didn&#x27;t want to. But it took nearly 5 minutes to clear that out.
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ed25519FUUUover 4 years ago
&gt; <i>In the world of taarof, politeness holds the place of honour. In its name, people refuse when they want to accept, say what is not meant, express what is not felt, invite when it is not intended, replace bad news with false hope. By doing so, they try to say what they “wished it were” – without ever admitting that it isn’t.</i><p>Maybe it’s my Americanism, but I’m absolutely happy this is <i>not</i> how it works here. “Yes is yes and no is no” works better for me.
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kleer001over 4 years ago
What a wonderfully odd tradition. I wonder if there&#x27;s a evolutionary psychology take on it. I bet it does some heavy lifting in the culture. Something about the tragedy of commons maybe.
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