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Study links mindfulness and meditation to narcissism and “spiritual superiority”

58 pointsby Bologoover 4 years ago

19 comments

zestsover 4 years ago
&gt; For this study, the authors did not measure “agentic narcissism” (for example, “I am more special than others and deserve special privileges”), but rather “communal narcissism,” which describes people who think of themselves as more nurturing and empathic than others. Example statements that characterize this trait include “I have a very positive influence on others” and “I am generally the most understanding person.”<p>It&#x27;s unfortunate how far I had to scroll down to see they are using a different definition of narcissism than one typically expects. I was either expecting either Narcissus &quot;pop-culture&quot; narcissism or the actual personality disorder.
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throwaway32992over 4 years ago
Spiritual materialism is not new, and that&#x27;s why Zen focuses so much on the ego problem:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cutting_Through_Spiritual_Materialism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Cutting_Through_Spiritual_Mate...</a><p>Having said that, some aspects of the study made me cringe:<p>&quot;the incentive to participate was a lottery with gift certificates of € 25,- to € 50,- ...&quot;<p>&quot;we recruited 860 participants via a Facebook page about psychology&quot;<p>Leading questions like &quot;My faith in myself goes up when I acquire more spiritual wisdom&quot;
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javajoshover 4 years ago
If you interviewed body-builders about health and fitness, would you find them narcissistic if they say that they are physically superior to most people? Or a scientist who&#x27;s spent her whole life studying, and who believes that their depth of knowledge is superior to most people?<p>Not all claims of superiority are narcissistic. (Although I think society has rightly picked a convention where you&#x27;re not really supposed to say such things about yourself, but rather wait for someone else to nominate you as superior in some narrowly defined way.)<p>It is, in fact, possible to be truly superior in spiritual terms, but such people are usually identified by their demeanor and accomplishments more than their claims.
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daenzover 4 years ago
Gem at the bottom:<p>&gt;“The question is whether a truly enlightened person would even participate in our studies,” the authors write. “Would such a person be interested in or even capable of answering all these ‘me’ questions?”
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jarmitageover 4 years ago
Reading the scale they developed, I&#x27;m not sure how one could distinguish their results from the more general bias that the majority of people believe they are above average at any given thing (especially with statements like &quot;I do X better than other people&quot;):<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;epdf&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;ejsp.2721" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;epdf&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;ejsp.2721</a>
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cs702over 4 years ago
There are many potential issues with this paper, starting with the fact that it redefines &quot;narcissism&quot; to suit its purposes... Nonetheless, this sentence in the abstract[a] really struck a chord with me:<p><i>&gt; Our results illustrate that the self‐enhancement motive is powerful and deeply ingrained so that it can hijack methods intended to transcend the ego and, instead, adopt them to its own service.</i><p>[a] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;abs&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;ejsp.2721" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;abs&#x2F;10.1002&#x2F;ejsp.2721</a>
alecbzover 4 years ago
&gt; The results of these three studies do not imply any casual direction; the authors suggest the causal arrow may work in both directions.... spiritual training may attract people who already feel superior. And the “extensive exploration of one’s personal thoughts and feelings” that spiritual training encourages “may be particularly appealing” to narcissists
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_y5hnover 4 years ago
They don&#x27;t call it &quot;spiritual shopping&quot; for nothing.<p>Spirituality is something you find for yourself, but in order to go deep, most people need guidance. Yes, spirituality is chock full of paradoxes too!
eternalbanover 4 years ago
Not news. This phenomena surely was observed thousands of years ago in various cultures. There is a reason all occult spiritual paths require a “Master”, “Guru”, “Pir”, “Guide”. Nearly all such collectives subject members to ritual <i>humbling</i> until a degree of “spiritual maturity” is detected. Occult literature (and here I include the esoterica of various established religions) is rife with warnings as to the dangers of spiritual seeking without guidance.<p>A wonderful self-test of one’s spiritual maturity is precisely the inner struggle of the novice with “accepting another as superior”. I suspect this has been and remains a fairly common experience for those on the spiritual path.<p>The standing bug to this approach is the authenticity factor of the respective “master” [so shop around].
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fennecfoxenover 4 years ago
Has anyone here read <i>The Tao of Pooh</i>?<p>Good little book, but spends way too much time looking down its nose at the Busy Backsoons and like people. There&#x27;s definitely a spiritual-superiority complex leaking out.
acephalover 4 years ago
This is also Joe Rogan and his &quot;just eat mushrooms&quot; ideology
buffalobuffaloover 4 years ago
A large number of the people that participate in <i>any</i> activity do so in an attempt to feel better than others. Humans live in hierarchies. Trying to climb those hierarchies is in our genes.
hprotagonistover 4 years ago
it was said of abbot agatho that for three years he carried a stone in his mouth until he learned to be silent.
jl2718over 4 years ago
I am really quite sick of this word.
Giorgiover 4 years ago
haha, most of users here will be pissed.
l8mr4over 4 years ago
An antidote in Mahayana is wanting all beings to be happy above oneself. How often do you focus loving kindness towards Trump? He only wishes to be happy and pain free. Unfortunately he has a lot of habits and conditioning (karma) to make him loathe-some by many spiritual and non-spiritual ppl. I find myself reactively wanting to see him punished.
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bergstromm466over 4 years ago
Systemic fuckery (as well as capitalist alienation in general) cannot be overcome by individual will. Not by &#x27;meditating&#x27; or whatever else. We do not choose to get cancer from living close to a place of industrial production (and the poluting toxins released fromt that). We do not choose to be born in marginalized communities. I hope we can become more aware that there our current system rewards Elites, and the existing propertied clasees. We are exploited by them.<p>Nora Bateson writes beautifully about interdependence of systems and communal wealth in a post called &quot;<i>My Health Is Not My Own</i>&quot;.<p><i>&quot;Vitality or life, is created through relationships that build relationships that build relationships and so on. Think of soil, and how soil becomes a forest or meadow where birds and insects find their homes, and where lovers walk hand in hand. The most important aspect of a healthy body, or healthy family or a healthy community is not the health of the individuals, but the the relationships between them. A family is several generations of relationships in multiple directions, within a culture, within history. The relationships matter and each communication within them also matter, this relational process is what life is made of.<p>Beyond the din of people arguing about the binaries of incomplete research around masks, transmission, lockdowns and going back to how things were- beyond all of that mess… there is a meta message that has a nasty bite to it. The deeper disease, the one that many of us have been pointing to for decades, has shown its rash, again.<p>The meta message is that the era of the &#x27;individual&#x27; is going to be hard to get out of. There is something like an addiction taking place, and cold turkey is scary as hell. Going from individuality and personal freedoms to recognition of interdependency is an invitation for all the trickery of the addiction. What is more comfortable is to be selfish. So, the array of justifications not to change that individualistic image of self is fantastic. Have you ever had an addiction and heard yourself make contortions of logic to make it not-wrong to have one more cigarette, or just on the weekends, or to find that shred of research that proves that some people show no signs of illness from smoking? The acrobatics of addictive logistics are spectacular. The human mind has an unmatched capacity to reason that which is unreasonable. There is no lack of imagination, it is just placed toward the project of keeping the addictions in place, rather than living differently. The world of industry, distribution, banking, advertising, consuming — is what feels familiar, and even if it is killing us and the planet, it is what we know. The pull to return is strong.<p>The meta message is that most of us are not habituated to recognize the health of others as our own health, and therefore to consider this interdependency is an unacceptable course of action. After all, what good will it do me? This is not how the soil builds richness.<p>My health is not my own. My health is the whole community’s, it belongs to the elderly, the youth, and even to the biome of organisms that live in my body and in the soil. This, is the opposite of everything that the last centuries of manufacturing, education and politics have forged into societal infrastructure and even the making of identity. It is easier to identify myself by my profession, my address or my car than to recognize that I am a living system in relation to other living systems. I am not me, I am a vessel of the past and the future. In this moment what is asked of me is that I recognize the harms the systems of the past have wrought, and make radical changes so that the future is not burdened with the same destructiveness as the past.&quot;</i> [1]<p>Also the term Magical Voluntarism is relevant here:<p><i>&quot;The radical therapist David Smail argues that Margaret Thatcher&#x27;s view that there&#x27;s no such thing as society, only individuals and their families, finds &quot;an unacknowledged echo in almost all approaches to therapy&quot;. Therapies such as cognitive behaviour therapy combine a focus on early life with the self-help doctrine that individuals can become masters of their own destiny. The idea is &quot;with the expert help of your therapist or counsellor, you can change the world you are in the last analysis responsible for, so that it no longer cause you distress&quot; – Smail calls this view &quot;magical voluntarism&quot;.<p>Depression is the shadow side of entrepreneurial culture, what happens when magical voluntarism confronts limited opportunities. As psychologist Oliver James put it in his book The Selfish Capitalist, &quot;in the entrepreneurial fantasy society,&quot; we are taught &quot;that only the affluent are winners and that access to the top is open to anyone willing to work hard enough, regardless of their familial, ethnic or social background – if you do not succeed, there is only one person to blame.&quot; It&#x27;s high time that the blame was placed elsewhere. We need to reverse the privatisation of stress and recognise that mental health is a political issue.&quot;</i> [2]<p>[1] Nora Bateson, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;n6gOj" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;n6gOj</a> &#x2F;&#x2F; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;norabateson.medium.com&#x2F;my-health-is-not-my-own-ec824c463cb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;norabateson.medium.com&#x2F;my-health-is-not-my-own-ec824...</a><p>[2] Mark Fisher, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;commentisfree&#x2F;2012&#x2F;jul&#x2F;16&#x2F;mental-health-political-issue" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;commentisfree&#x2F;2012&#x2F;jul&#x2F;16&#x2F;mental...</a>
emteyczover 4 years ago
Well, that&#x27;s a dumb study then. They&#x27;re noobs! &#x2F;s<p>Really though, mindfulness the concept is a useful thing IMHO, as opposed to mindfulness the industry. Meditation has scientifically confirmed benefits.
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slolean13over 4 years ago
I would comment pseudo mindfulness and inexperienced meditation leads to narcissism and spiritual superiority. @OP?
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