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Alternative notation for exponents, logs and roots? (2011)

177 pointsby aleyanover 4 years ago

15 comments

Zhylover 4 years ago
I think it&#x27;s worth linking to the &#x27;Notation as a tool of thought&#x27; thread from the other day, as it gave me quite a lot to read, watch and think about [0].<p>It also reminds me of Graphical Linear Algebra [1] which I occasionally see mentioned here. And, as included in my comment in that thread, the notion of using Tau as the circle constant in equations [2].<p>Notation is a weird topic to tackle. Like with new technologies or languages on HN, there seem to be those who get [a new notation when it is proposed] and evangelise it, and those who see it as pointless and vocally dismiss it. Posts like the article where you&#x27;re weighing up and exploring benefits and limitations of notation seem rare - and even those that do exist seem to be pitching for their new notation to be a global replacement rather than as a pedagogical or epistemological tool.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25249563" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25249563</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;graphicallinearalgebra.net&#x2F;about&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;graphicallinearalgebra.net&#x2F;about&#x2F;</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tauday.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tauday.com</a>
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jerfover 4 years ago
I think the triangle notation is actually terrible; it breaks the = symbol. A fully-filled-in triangle with all three components is essentially an equation, or a set of equations, and I can&#x27;t think of any other (common) situation in which we hide the equality symbol like that. Having only two of them filled out makes me feel like it&#x27;s a math problem where we&#x27;re being asked to fill out the rest of the equation, not an operator.<p>I also don&#x27;t like that this is far from the only set of operations that might fit into a triangle of some sort. In fact I&#x27;ve seen math problems from school using it for + and - already. I haven&#x27;t seen it for * and &#x2F; but it&#x27;s easy to imagine. It&#x27;s possible this notation is already ruined for teaching students by the common core stuff already in use. And the mere fact that the operators can be arranged in a triangle is not sufficiently unique to give the triangle to this particular set of them.<p>One could argue that the &quot;=&quot; symbol could use a rethink, but I would consider this not a terribly good place to begin that argument just because one set of operators happens to have this particular relationship.<p>Putting up and down arrows under exponents&#x2F;roots is also not that great; it looks fine when you have one letter above the arrow but it&#x27;s not going to scale well. I&#x27;d happily argue that standard exponentiation doesn&#x27;t scale particularly well either once the exponents start getting complicated, but putting another symbol below it doesn&#x27;t help. Putting them as inline operators flows better, but may hide the lede too much, so to speak; while the exponentiation operator we use today may have some issues, at least it&#x27;s clearly visible.<p>Really, the problem isn&#x27;t the three of exponents, roots, and log, the problem is just log. The whole &quot;three letter operator&quot; thing seems to have a lot of problems; see also the trig functions and their bizarre standards for sticking powers on them (where -1 is supermagical). That said, there probably isn&#x27;t a problem large enough to be solvable here because the solution isn&#x27;t going to be better enough to overcome inertia.
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yunruseover 4 years ago
While the typesetting might not be very portable or compact, this is beautifully useful for teaching. The two extra identities found appear difficult to prove, but in this notation are blindingly obvious.<p>I wonder if this can be used to apply to other sets of functions, or if the geometry of chaining functions so can be extended to other such geometrically-obvious proofs.
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contravariantover 4 years ago
Although really the first two already have a unified notation, namely x^y and x^(1&#x2F;y). There are some minor differences in usage between x^(1&#x2F;y) and the yth root, but those come down to the fact that the yth root isn&#x27;t uniquely determined.<p>And there&#x27;s just 1 logarithm, which has the property log(x^y) = y log(x). You don&#x27;t need the ones with a different base.
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mncharityover 4 years ago
Perhaps adaptive edtech will enable greater use of variant notations? Two decades back, I did toy context where you could pull-down select the notation of a page, and mouseover to see alternate forms. Personalized notation can compromise communication, but like some students benefiting from Feynmanesce drawing of equations in multiple colors, variant notations might be used tactically, for targeted disruption of misconceptions and such.
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hclimenteover 4 years ago
Related video by 3Blue1Brown: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;EOtduunD9hA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;EOtduunD9hA</a><p>EDIT: correct link below.
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potiuperover 4 years ago
&quot;Though the ancient Egyptians used heap as a general term for an unknown quantity. Diophantus, a Greek mathematician in Alexandria about 300 AD, was probably the original inventor of an algebra using letters for unknown quantities. Diophantus used the Greek capital letter delta (not for his own name!) for the word power (dynamis; compare dynamo, dynamic, and dynamite), which is therefore one of the oldest terms in mathematics. A conjunction has been used to raise a function to a power. This syntax brings out the parallelism between raising a number to a power and applying a function an equal number of times. The algorithm fails when the number of doublings is further increased.&quot;<p>A proposed non-commutative infix binary operator inverse to similar to the non-commutative infix binary exponentiation operator is &quot;[x&#x27;s] &#x27;log base&#x27; [base]&quot;:<p>Operator symbols: [] = implicit; vertical orientation &#x2F; higher potential = implicit increasing<p>position on number &quot;line&quot; : | = addition, - = subtraction; two vertices. triangle &quot;ratio&quot; : ▽ = multiplication, △ = division; three vertices. square &quot;The power of a line is the square of the same line&quot; [x^2] : ◇ = exponentiation, □ = log base; four vertices...<p>[0|]y=y : | = next() grouping operator<p>[0]-y : - = inverse operator<p>[0|]y [|]-y=0 : 0 = identity operand<p>[1▽]y=y : ▽ = | grouping operator<p>[1]△y : △ = inverse operator<p>[1▽]y [▽](1△y)=y△y=1 : 1 = identity operand<p>[y◇(1△y)◇]y=y : ◇ = ▽ grouping operator<p>[y◇(1△y)] □ y = 1△y : □ = inverse operator<p>[y◇(1△y)◇]y [◇]((y◇(1△y)) □ y) =y◇(1△y) : y◇(1△y) = identity operand &lt;in the infinite limit = e&gt;
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syrrimover 4 years ago
Ideally, we would treat e^x and ln(x) = log~e(x) as the default. We know that a^x = e^(x ln a), and log~a(x) = ln x &#x2F; ln a. So if we introduced an operator ^(x) = e^x, and another v(x) = ln(x), we could write a^x = ^xva, a√x = ^(vx&#x2F;a), log~a(x) = vx&#x2F;va. Common identities would be written thus:<p><pre><code> ^xva * ^yva = ^(xva + yva) = ^(x + y)va ^yv(^xva) = ^yxva (note that this is just the identity v(^x) = x) ln(a^x) = x ln a is just v(^xva) = xva ^yvx = z &lt;=&gt; yvx = vz &lt;=&gt; y = vz&#x2F;vx ^yvx = z &lt;=&gt; yvx = vz &lt;=&gt; vx = vz&#x2F;y &lt;=&gt; x = ^(vz&#x2F;y) </code></pre> (alternate derivation:)<p><pre><code> ^yvx = z &lt;=&gt; ^(v^yvx&#x2F;y) = ^(vz&#x2F;y) &lt;=&gt; x = ^(vz&#x2F;y) </code></pre> Differentials are thus:<p><pre><code> D(^f) = Df^f D(vf) = Df&#x2F;f d&#x2F;dx(^xva) = va^xva d&#x2F;dx(^nvx) = d&#x2F;dx(nvx)^nvx = n&#x2F;x * ^nvx = n ^-1vx ^nvx = n^(n-1)vx d&#x2F;dx(vx&#x2F;va) = 1&#x2F;xva</code></pre>
ajkjkover 4 years ago
Don&#x27;t particularly care for any of these. &quot;fill-in-the-blank&quot; notations don&#x27;t really work for operators. You can drop the exponents and write x^y = z as y ln x = ln z, and then everything commutes and is solved nicely. Same idea (until you get to complex numbers, maybe).<p>With multiplication, xy = z is solved by y = z&#x2F;x or x = z&#x2F;y, which works becuase of the commutativity. If it wasn&#x27;t commutative, though, you would need to use left- and right- division: x = z&#x2F;y but y = x\z (I guess), implying y = (x^-1) z.<p>In the same vein, x^y = z has the radical symbol as a specialized notation to invert it on one side: x = √^y z, which we can parse as a non-commutative operator that acts like f(z) = z^(1&#x2F;y). But it helps that the raising to a power has an inverse operation that is _also_ raising to a power (x^y)^(1&#x2F;y) = x. Whereas &#x27;being raised to a power&#x27; doesn&#x27;t have an inverse operation that is also &#x27;being raised to a power&#x27;.<p>The other problem is that when you apply a logarithm operator to a term, powers switch to being multiplied. They &#x27;change domains&#x27; in a sense. So it&#x27;s not possible to do anything to the &#x27;x&#x27; in x^y on its own, because that would result in f(x)^y which is still exponentiating by y. You need the &#x27;y&#x27; to &#x27;move&#x27; into the main line of the equation, out of the exponent.<p>I think a good way to model this would be to imagine allowing x^y = z shifting so that the &#x27;y&#x27; is the main line of the equation, becoming something like 1_x y = 1_z. 1_x and 1_z would ideally have the subscript on the left side, to avoid confusion with other uses of subscripts, and to look like a shifted version of x^1 and z^1. These are literally log x and log z in some base, but they&#x27;re just numbers, so you can solve the equation as y = 1_z&#x2F;1_x. Then you have identities like x^1_x = e, so x^(1_z&#x2F;1_x) = e^(1_z) = z. I think you just do away with the notation log_x z entirely; it&#x27;s too odd compared to everything else.<p>So basically I propose y = 1_z&#x2F;1_x, but I don&#x27;t think you can reconcile this with the square root notation at all, as they&#x27;re too different. But it does, at least, keep things consistent with using a division operation for the inverse, akin to x = z^(1&#x2F;y).
diffeomorphismover 4 years ago
We have a unified notation already?<p>x^y = z<p>x = z^{1&#x2F;y}<p>\log(x) y = \log(z)<p>Some of these generalize well to complex numbers&#x2F;matrices&#x2F;groups&#x2F;flows&#x2F;etc. some don&#x27;t.
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ameliusover 4 years ago
I guess you&#x27;d want to do the same for the other operations then (plus&#x2F;minus, mulitply&#x2F;divide), and perhaps even generalize:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hyperoperation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hyperoperation</a>
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OJFordover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m in slight disbelief that I can&#x27;t find anyone pointing out that the y&#x27;th root of x can also be written x^(1&#x2F;y) - it must be in there somewhere...
jonsenover 4 years ago
So that’s why Johnny can’t subtract. There’s a corresponding problem with + and - .<p>For a + b = c we should of course write the equivalent a = b - c . If 2 + 3 = 5 then 2 = 3 - 5 .
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zestsover 4 years ago
log_a(b)*log_b(c) = log_a(c)<p>My favorite identity.
bandie91over 4 years ago
i vote for this notation:<p>b^p -&gt; b^p<p>\root p \of x -&gt; x^(1&#x2F;p)<p>{\log_b} x -&gt; b^? x