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M1 Macs: Truth and Truthiness

491 pointsby goranmoominover 4 years ago

52 comments

6d65over 4 years ago
The author is bashing another author for not doing measurements, yet himself declares that m1 beats all the other CPUs, without providing any measurements.<p>With regards to the M1, I&#x27;m grateful for a good competition. As this will likely push premium laptop manufactures (Razer, Dell) towards ryzen CPUs, as opposed to using them in cheaper models. Loosening the grip that intel has on them.<p>With Zen3 on mobile, giving a similar 20% boost as it did on desktop, plus a jump from 7nm to to 5m, giving another 20%, next year might be a very good year for Ryzen laptops. Looking forward to a Ryzen 6000 XPS 13.<p>The other thing I&#x27;m grateful for M1 is that will most likely push the laptop manufactures to pay attention to thermals and noise.<p>The unpleasant thing, is that most likely Apple will be a process node ahead, with them most likely getting TSMC 3nm in 2022, and everyone else a year later. With a competitive year in-between.<p>I&#x27;m looking forward to next year, to upgrading to a Ryzen 6000(5nm) cpu, if it&#x27;s good. And I&#x27;m looking forward for the more beefy apple arm chips and comparison between them. Also, maybe someone would compare a Ryzen 6000 hackintosh with an arm mac while it will be possible.<p>Also looking forward at Intel&#x27;s response, be it a partnership with TSMC, or fixing their nodes, and, fingers crossed, a completely new risc-v cpu.<p>Anyway, interesting stuff.
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YesThatTom2over 4 years ago
Patrick Moorhead is a stock analyst for the chip industry. In Wall Street terms, he is aligned with Intel others who are shaking in their boots right now. He&#x27;s not going to say that the M1 is great until Intel&#x2F;NVidia&#x2F;etc. allow him to.<p>These pundits know which side of his bread is buttered. He knows that his clients were caught off-guard by the M1 announcement. He needs to give his clients enough time to sell their Intel stock before it becomes conventional wisdom that the legacy chip makers have a business model that doesn&#x27;t work.<p>The history of the tech industry is dotted with pundits nay-saying anything new from companies they aren&#x27;t in bed with. Eventually they can&#x27;t deny reality any longer. Through the magic of the media&#x27;s short-term memory they change their song and deny they&#x27;ve every said anything else.<p>I remember in the 1980s when the top pundit of the industry was John C. Dvorak. Everyone read his column. EVERYONE. The Amiga was a potential threat to John, who was aligned with the MS-DOS world. He wrote many columns about how multitasking was stupid because &quot;your desk can&#x27;t fit more than one keyboard and mouse&quot;. Yeah, that was his reason. Of course, once MS-Windows arrived, suddenly his column was about how multitasking is this new thing, the best thing, the thing everyone should have. If you don&#x27;t have it, you&#x27;re an ignorant loser. I remember telling my friends that I wish I had saved his old, anti-Amiga&#x2F;anti-multitasking, columns because I want to show up at one of his public appearances to ask how MS-Windows allows you to fit so many keyboards on his desk.
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simiasover 4 years ago
I&#x27;ve never owned a Mac and don&#x27;t intend to own one but I&#x27;m very happy with this M1 move, mainly for the reasons highlighted in the introduction to the article:<p>&gt;M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux. Those machines are just standing around in their underwear now because the M1 stole all their pants.<p>I think it&#x27;s a bit unfair to lump Linux in there since it&#x27;s been running on ARM and other embedded, low-power devices basically forever, but it is true that few of us run our Linux desktop on an ARM board.<p>But I think the overarching point is true: now desktop and laptop makers can&#x27;t just pretend that having a hot and&#x2F;or slow, clunky, noisy x86-based architecture is just a fact of life. I hope and expect that it&#x27;ll help create a new generation of ARM-based laptops and maybe even desktops that will run cool and smooth.<p>I want to believe.
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klelattiover 4 years ago
The discussion seems to have settled down to &quot;M1 is great! But you&#x27;ll soon be able to get a Zen 3 CPU that&#x27;s just as good.&quot; Which may or may not be true, but:<p>- Apple has a material (and apparently perceptible) performance advantage against the majority of the laptop market - which will do wonders both for their and Arm&#x27;s brand.<p>- The M1 has killed the idea (which I&#x27;ve heard a lot) that you can&#x27;t get performance out of an Arm core.<p>- There is now a credible desktop platform on which to develop for Arm in the cloud.<p>I think the real impact of this will be in 2-3 years and it&#x27;s not good for Intel.
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ghaffover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m not sure I see most of the disagreement here. As Gruber says, Moorhead is mostly complaining about software incompatibilities. But that&#x27;s part of the total package--especially with Apple which is about selling the <i>total</i> experience. Personally I&#x27;ll probably switch sooner rather than later especially given that I don&#x27;t run a lot of native apps on my laptop. But it seems pretty reasonable to critique a new architecture laptop for (unsurprisingly) having some growing pains related to, especially, third-party software. Because people use a laptop to run software, not in isolation.
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hpaavolaover 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t care about any Apple products, but I really do hope that M1 will force all other manufacturers ship good ARM laptops. Or force Intel and AMD to pull a rabit out of their hat to match the performance&#x2F;watt of ARM chips.<p>I want long battery life, no fans and a lot of memory. Running Linux. If M1 is the catalyst to make it happen, then so be it.
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brundolfover 4 years ago
&gt; I actually discovered that I’ve had an instinct of measuring my MacBook’s CPU usage by feeling the heat on the strip of aluminum right above the Touch Bar, and I can’t even do that anymore now.<p>Market opportunity here for a peripheral that&#x27;s just an adhesive strip you put above your touch bar, and it outputs heat corresponding to CPU usage ;)
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j-pbover 4 years ago
My new M1 Macbook Air arrived today. The excitement was quickly replaced by sober frustration.<p>Yes apple did a remarkable job with the M1, no they&#x27;ve still lost their mojo when it comes to high quality software.<p>I&#x27;ve spend the last 3 hours trying the wipe and reinstall the thing, because their non-virgin-os migration assistant is simply unreliable.<p>So far, I&#x27;ve had issues where the fused Data&#x2F;OS drive would just split apart, with no clear way on how to properly format the drive back to an installable state. Disk utility giving no indication whatsoever on which level of nested APFS concepts a wipe should even occur. And with absurd error messages like &quot;can&#x27;t install MacOs, no admin user found&quot; - &#x27;yeah no shit&#x27;, during install. I really really really wanna like this machine, but MacOs is stuck in this limbo of not wanting to give you any control, yet not taking over those functions for you, so you constantly have to guess what&#x27;s doable and expected.<p>Update: Right now I&#x27;m trying to reinstall Mac Os via a bootable USB drive, which is actually what&#x27;s recommended by apple support. (hello mid 2000s)<p>This is basically my last option, before having to bring it into an apple store.<p>The previous method apple recommended involved downloading Big Sur via the command line, which didn&#x27;t work for me, becaue curl failed to write to disk.<p>I mean, how do you even manage to break curl...<p>Feels just as much work as setting up a linux laptop...<p>Final update: Yep, it&#x27;s dead jim. Apple support suspects a hardware failure. Back to the store you go.<p>I&#x27;m gonna spend that money on 4 DevTerm and a box full of beer.<p>cheers
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uniqueidover 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t doubt Apple&#x27;s CPUs are great, but they coincide with the Mac&#x27;s transition into a product I, otherwise, no longer wish to use.<p>I want access to my boot volume. I don&#x27;t want cloud <i>anything</i>.<p>So Apple&#x27;s technical prowess now makes me sad. I can either use an OS that doesn&#x27;t head further every year in a direction I hate, or I can have a fast computer.
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PaulDavisThe1stover 4 years ago
Gruber notes midway:<p>&quot;Perversely, developers, who by nature of their profession best understand exactly what an architecture transition like this entails, might be among the few professions who can’t yet move their primary computing to an Apple Silicon device by nature of the software tools they depend upon. (Some developers can move now, and — because Xcode running on the M1 compiles code so much faster than any Intel MacBook — are rejoicing.)&quot;<p>I know that HN has many more active&#x2F;vocal webdevs than native software developers, and so the point may be lost on some. I suspect that Gruber doesn&#x27;t understand why his point is actually so completely accurate.<p><i>Developers</i> (native ones at least) need to compile, a lot. Compilation is an embarrassingly parallel task: if you&#x27;ve got N cores, you can use N cores and get a linear speedup for every expansion in N you are offered.<p>The M1 seems like an awfully nice system for people concerned about CPU&#x2F;Watt, and an awfully nice system who want a very powerful bit of hardware to run macOS on.<p>What it remains is a less-than-top-of-the-line system for people who care about CPU&#x2F;$ or just maxCPU. No doubt if you&#x27;re used to building native code on existing MacBook Pro or even a Mini, the M1 systems will seem incredible.<p>But I&#x27;m building my software on a 12 core, 32GBM VM running on a threadripper, while still able to read Hacker News and listening to Soma FM in the Linux&#x2F;Debian host environment, and for people like me (especially the even tinier set who also are net-zero for electrical supply thanks to solar PV), the M1 systems are just not interesting so far.<p>But then, as Gruber said, I&#x27;m a developer, and this mismatch is caused by the set of tools I use.
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username3over 4 years ago
There are no honest 8GB reviews. Gruber is selling 8GB Macs based on 16GB review units. This is the iPad 1 with 256MB all over again.
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spamizbadover 4 years ago
I wish Gruber would just let modest criticisms like this stuff fly rather than pen an overwrought argument like this.<p>I think it’s perfectly legitimate to raise concerns around Apple software because it’s one area where Apple has faced sustained criticism from its users and has done very little to remedy the situation. So if the software that runs on top of the M1 is shakey, it’s entirely realistic to expect these “warts” to be with the platform for a while.
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superzampover 4 years ago
&gt; It was a fundamental trade-off inherent to PC computing, and now we don’t have to make it<p>I wonder how many of the currently accepted trade-offs are actually false.<p>At low levels it&#x27;s kind of easy to prove, like you can store either more or bigger packages in a truck but not both. But the higher you go, the farther from physics, the more difficult it becomes to know if you&#x27;re making decisions on what is essentially a flaky trade-off.
StillBoredover 4 years ago
I want a &quot;hot&quot; M1, one that runs at 5Ghz and burns 120W (or whatever) at load because it will be even faster. That is how this works, the reason your seeing &quot;fast and cool&quot; is because the target is 15W. If that becomes 25W then there is budget for more cores, or faster clocks (or whatever) and the the result is a faster machine. Which is why a lot of people are holding out for the M2 (again or whatever) the next version they put in the bigger machines because it should be even more impressive if apple can scale it.
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mark_l_watsonover 4 years ago
I have a four year old MacBook that I am still happy with, but when LispWorks supports M1, I think that I will get the small M1 MacBook Pro - I can live with an extra pound of weight.<p>I use my iPad Pro for just about everything except programming, so laptop selection is not as important to me as it used to be.
barkingcatover 4 years ago
I think the missing part of the discussion is that the M1 can run fast and hot... It hasn&#x27;t transcended physics - it&#x27;s just not being pushed hard enough.<p>Give it a 800% overclock and dunk it in liquid nitrogen and then we&#x27;ll talk.
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croesover 4 years ago
Fast and hot and slow and cool is still valid. The M1 is as fast or faster as other CPU but could surely run faster. But then it&#x27;s getting hot.
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CoolGuySteveover 4 years ago
I feel like the M1 hype is getting out of hand. Apple bought up TSMC’s entire 5nm manufacturing capacity so of course it’s going to pack more transistors and use less power than AMD’s 7nm TSMC process or Intel’s 10nm process (which is effectively similar to 7nm TSMC).<p>The M1 is a great and well-refined design but when compared to AMD’s similarly priced 4750U in multi core benchmarks, the performance per watt is better but not by much more than the improved process would suggest. And that’s without the IPC improvements that mobile Zen 3 will bring.<p>And when compared to last gen 14nm Intel MacBooks, a 5nm TSMC part is going to blow the doors off just by virtue of feature size alone.
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p1neconeover 4 years ago
A lot of the arguments here seem to come from people thinking laptops are the only game in town. When someone makes unqualified claims about the m1 beating &quot;all the other PC cpus&quot; <i>of course</i> people are going to compare it to desktop chips. Even Apple themselves advertised it as the &quot;worlds fastest CPU core&quot; when they announced it, which is blatantly untrue.<p>People aren&#x27;t saying that this isn&#x27;t a very compelling CPU, they&#x27;re just annoyed by the bullshit marketing, and the people blindly repeating it.
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Machaover 4 years ago
&gt; because iPhones and iPads run fast and cool<p>For certain values of &quot;cool&quot;, for certain tasks.
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WhyNotHugoover 4 years ago
TBH, I think that most experts who didn&#x27;t see this coming were simply in denial.<p>Disqualifying benchmarks because... it&#x27;s mobile?<p>Disregarding performance and cooling differences with an iPad because... it&#x27;s an iPad?<p>They all sound like excuses to disregard the obvious results. Synthetic benchmarks can lack fine grained precision. They might be bad at determining who&#x27;s on top when there&#x27;s a very small gap. But they provide valid results for determining if two products are in the same LEAGUE.<p>Sure, I an iPad could&#x27;t run Linux, gcc or StarCraft,, but that&#x27;s mostly an ecosystem issue, not a hardware performance one.<p>We&#x27;ve seen this coming for years now. Both the big obvious signs, and the little signs, like Apple continuously unifying code and APIs across platforms.
account42over 4 years ago
&gt; We knew this to be true because that was the way things were. But now, with the M1 Macs, it’s not. M1 Macs run very fast and do so while remaining very cool and lasting mind-bogglingly long on battery. It was a fundamental trade-off inherent to PC computing, and now we don’t have to make it.<p>What a pile of horseshit. The tradeoff between heat and performance was always within a generation - &quot;fast&quot; is always relative. It&#x27;s just the baseline that has moved, same as it has with every Intel&#x2F;AMD generation, not a fundamental change.
giorgiozover 4 years ago
Windows Bootcamp can&#x27;t run on M1. So there you go there is a wart that all the 100% positive reviews aren&#x27;t mentioning.
_benjover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m now hoping to be surprised by a similar disruption in web browsers! (although I&#x27;m not holding my breath...)
tomxorover 4 years ago
Since this annoying article is really all about intel... I wonder if anyone could answer me this:<p>How practical would it be for Intel to pivot away from the deficiencies of their ISA, e.g to be able to make improvements in OoO comparable to the M1?<p>It&#x27;s well understood such a move would completely remove the advantage of high backward compatibility for intel - but assuming the market is open to such a change - how technically feasible would it be, e.g is the micro-architecture and ISA more tightly coupled than one might expect? does such an endeavor mean scrapping most of it, or is a significant portion of the technology under that ISA layer flexible enough to be adapted without ending up with the same limitations in current intel chips?
thewileyoneover 4 years ago
The M1 sounds great and the fundamental changes in the architecture makes so much sense that you wonder why Intel and AMD didn&#x27;t think of it.<p>However, only macos can run on the M1 because these fundamental changes require a huge OS overhaul. Yes, a lot of work like a hypervisor type layer must have been put in so that existing 3rd party apps can run. But the M1 is optimized to Apple&#x27;s common denominator, not anyone else&#x27;s.<p>Ultimately, the real question is whether the M1 will be opened for Windows or Linux to build on. I doubt it.<p>Intel and AMD will just have to build their own heterogeneous processor and Windows and Linux will have to build a hypervisor layer or just go native.
harikbover 4 years ago
&gt; emulating or translating apps compiled for a different architecture is necessarily going to be irritatingly slow and somewhat incompatible at best<p>While it wasn&#x27;t as popular, Palm OS did this beautifully when going from Motorola 68k based device to ARM. Granted the executables are tiny (usually 10 to 64k in size or smaller), but the execution was flawless. In this comparison, I am not nitpicking on emulation vs translation vs JIT. Whatever it is, the 68k binary ran on ARM without a recompilation.
srousseyover 4 years ago
I&#x27;ll wait, unfortunately.<p>I need docker today.<p>I need my imagePROGRAF printer drivers for photography today.<p>I need Luminar AI plugin for Photoshop today.<p>Etc.<p>But I am excited to pay for v2 of a MacBook Pro 14. So maybe 18 months. It will be a long wait... :&#x2F;
singhracover 4 years ago
I hear a lot of &quot;all PC laptops are now comparatively a bad deal&quot;, which is a real bummer since it&#x27;s always good for Apple to have competition. If Apple is reserving all of TSMC&#x27;s 5nm (and probably 3nm) node output, is Samsung a viable competitor?<p>Does the world of ultra-cheap (i.e. &lt;$500) laptops come back to ARM Chromebooks? Qualcomm be able to mimic Apple&#x27;s design success?<p>I&#x27;m kind of with Gruber that this is a game changer, but what does it mean for the ecosystem?
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anta40over 4 years ago
I mostly work on Android apps (and ocasionally backend). Just started learning iOS dev.<p>I think overall the responses from software developers about M1 is positive. Yes, I also have read steipete&#x27;s post: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;steipete.com&#x2F;posts&#x2F;apple-silicon-m1-a-developer-perspective&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;steipete.com&#x2F;posts&#x2F;apple-silicon-m1-a-developer-pers...</a><p>Perhaps next year the ARM port of Android Studio is already available? :D
eldavidoover 4 years ago
One of my best friends was high up in the M1 project (don&#x27;t want to get too specific, but he works at Apple).<p>I am not surprised about the M1 performance numbers at all. Granted, I have a degree in this area (silicon design) and many friends in the industry. But it&#x27;s the sort of thing where if you&#x27;re paying any attention, it&#x27;s just inevitable.<p>(1) Intel has been a mess for a while. Multiple canceled high-profile projects (not announced publicly), some high-profile process technology missteps, and frankly...they just feel kind of rudderless. A lot of my more career-minded friends have jumped ship. There just doesn&#x27;t seem to be a concrete goal they&#x27;re pursuing. They&#x27;ve had what, three CEOs in the last few years?<p>(2) Apple&#x27;s semiconductor team is really good. REALLY good. It was a Steve Jobs-level initiative that started with the acquisition of PA Semi and they&#x27;ve assembled a lot of the best people in the industry.<p>(3) Apple sells something like 10-100x as many phones as computers each year. This means there&#x27;s much, much more scope for high-budget R&amp;D on the phones. And in this case, they took a lot of what they learned about system-on-chips, which are used in phones, and brought it back to PCs.<p>(4) It&#x27;s pretty obvious the architecture of PCs was overdue for a bit of a rethink. Just look at a PC mainboard. There&#x27;s all kinds of shit on there, lots of clocked digital electronics, BIOS chips, memory controllers, real-time timers, a giant energy-eating PCI bus, etc. If you stop and think about it, we&#x27;ve probably reached the point where the whole thing needed to be repackaged into a single part. With the exception of overclockers and hardcore gamers, most people don&#x27;t upgrade their CPU, or memory, so right there, you can remove a bunch of clunky edge connectors and all their bus logic. This means the whole thing can run on fewer synchronous clocks, which dramatically improves power efficiency and also (I&#x27;m not sure about this, but it stands to reason) performance. There&#x27;s also a completely unified memory model--one giant flat RAM between CPU and GPU--so no schlepping all the things back and forth from GPU to CPU memory. Huge performance improvement right there, just by eliminating stupid legacy bullshit we don&#x27;t need anymore.<p>As a software guy, it&#x27;s like they just ripped out a bunch of legacy stuff and got rid of all the unnecessary and complex silicon.<p>No less important, there was a movement in academia about ten years ago toward using FPGAs (basically reprogrammable silicon) to do various special-purpose tasks like image processing, DSP, and GPU. Custom silicon is <i>way</i> more efficient (both power and performance) than general-purpose CPU silicon. If you look at the M1 design, they bundled a bunch of custom stuff into a single package, so that rather than having a CPU, you get a CPU, memory controller, GPU, image processor, etc. on a single piece of silicon.<p>(5) And finally, they did a bunch of sensible things with the ARM CPU that anyone with an undergraduate degree in computer engineering wouldn&#x27;t be surprised by. I read something about large reodering buffers and a few other things.<p>I&#x27;m not in any way minimizing this achievement. It is a very big deal. But like a lot of what Apple does, it&#x27;s just a realtively straightforward idea, executed to a very, very high level of excellence by a very good team. And it&#x27;s interesting how all these little 5% improvements here, there, and everywhere culminated into a much larger, qualitative degree of excellence. It all feels very &quot;Apple&quot;.
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stefanvover 4 years ago
The only real (but small) downside (and just for some of us) is that you can&#x27;t daisy chain two external monitors to the new M1 laptops. It&#x27;s true that the mini can use two external monitors connected to separate ports or that you can jump through hoops and use more than two external monitors and that is why it&#x27;s not such a big deal.
altcognitoover 4 years ago
This Gruber character is something else. No, the rules of physics and heat generation have not been repealed. You would think the fact you can’t crank out 100% performance on a Mac book air for too long before it throttles would be evidence enough that heat dissipation was still the prevailing reality, but not so for Gruber!
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jgrant27over 4 years ago
It&#x27;s just not true. Ryzen laptops have been available for months for a fraction of the price of a macbook that are just as impressive. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imagine27.com&#x2F;rise-of-the-mac-serial-killers" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imagine27.com&#x2F;rise-of-the-mac-serial-killers</a>
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desmapover 4 years ago
A naïve question: Couldn&#x27;t other ARM licensees just integrate RAM into the SoC like Apple did and come easily close to M1&#x27; performance? With easily I mean in a doable manner within 1-2 years. I know there are more tricks&#x2F;magic involved but just to start somewhere.
lern_too_spelover 4 years ago
The biggest wart with the M1 Macs is that you&#x27;re stuck running MacOS, which just feels like molasses every time I use it.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.phoronix.com&#x2F;scan.php?page=article&amp;item=macos1015-win10-ubuntu&amp;num=1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.phoronix.com&#x2F;scan.php?page=article&amp;item=macos101...</a><p>It&#x27;s the same problem with A14 iPhones. You&#x27;re stuck running iOS, which is not only too restricted to be of any use, but also too slow to showcase the hardware.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=emPiTZHdP88" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=emPiTZHdP88</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;hPhkPXVxISY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;hPhkPXVxISY</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;B5ZT9z9Bt4M" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;B5ZT9z9Bt4M</a>
Nitionover 4 years ago
This article covers the fact that the M1 is both cool and very fast. My question is: Could Apple now clock up the M1 so that&#x27;s it&#x27;s as hot as other chips, but <i>insanely</i> fast?
zarkov99over 4 years ago
This is good. We have a problem of accountability in our media. Spewing nonsense for years should come with consequences even if it gets you clicks.
ineedasernameover 4 years ago
TLDR: Author believes (perhaps rightfully) that the M1 review from perenial Apple skeptic Patrick Moorhead is wrong.
liminalover 4 years ago
Can someone please ELI5 why the M1 is so much faster than every other ARM chip?
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Thaxllover 4 years ago
M1 is fast but also very much completely closed, impossible to extend &#x2F; change anything, on my PC I can buy more ram, I can buy a new graphic card every 2-3 years, it&#x27;s a very different constrains than AMD &#x2F; Intel supporting a million of different configuration + legacy.
samizdisover 4 years ago
I get the &quot;fast and hot&quot; v &quot;slow and cold&quot; history of devices, and am pleased to be told that the M1 has broken this. However, and it may well be that I haven&#x27;t understood complexities here, a recent Ars review [1] (glowing, by the way) of the M1 MacBook Air, contained this passage:<p><i>According to Apple, the MacBook Air&#x27;s M1 is voltage-limited in order to function within the fanless design&#x27;s thermal envelope. iFixit&#x27;s teardown shows in detail that the Air&#x27;s M1 cooling setup is an entirely passive affair, with just a heat transfer plate in between the M1 CPU and the aluminum body. I was expecting performance similar to but perhaps a bit lower than the M1-powered Mac mini, and that&#x27;s more or less what I got. However, the Air&#x27;s M1 is good for at least a few solid minutes of full-bore Firestorm core performance before it throttles back.<p>In benchmarking, I noticed that subsequent runs of the Final Cut Pro export would slow down dramatically—the first export would complete in about 1 minute and 19 seconds, but if I immediately repeated the export it would take a bit under 2.5 minutes—and the Air would be quite warm to the touch. After closing the lid to hibernate until the Air was cool and then repeating the export, the time was once again in the 1:20-ish range.<p>To create some more sustained load, I cloned the source video three times and then repeated the export process. Starting from a cold startup with the MBA&#x27;s chassis at ambient temperature gave a result of 4 minutes, 21 seconds. This time, I opened Activity Monitor&#x27;s CPU graph to spy on the core utilization. All eight cores were engaged until about 2:56, at which time half of the cores—presumably the high-performance Firestorm cores—dropped to less than 50-percent usage and stayed there until the run completed.<p>A second run immediately after that took 7:37—not quite twice as long, but heading in that direction. Activity Monitor&#x27;s CPU usage graph showed half of the cores (presumably the high-performance Firestorm cores) at half utilization for the entire run.<p>Further testing—including several runs after letting the MBA sit powered off for about an hour to make absolutely sure it was cooled to ambient—failed to produce anything resembling a precise, repeatable time interval for when throttling starts. The best I can do is to say that it seems that when you throw a heavy workload at the MBA, it runs at full-bore until the Firestorm cores become too toasty, which seems to take anywhere from 3-ish to 6-ish minutes. Then it backs the Firestorm cores off until they show about 50-percent utilization, and the amount of heat generated at that level seems to be within the sustained thermal capacity of the design.</i><p>My amateur reading of this was that, yes, the M1 is incredibly fast when cold, but when it warms up it becomes measurably slower because of throttling - even if still fast by comparison to previous Air models.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;gadgets&#x2F;2020&#x2F;11&#x2F;apples-m1-macbook-air-has-that-apple-silicon-magic&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;gadgets&#x2F;2020&#x2F;11&#x2F;apples-m1-macbook-ai...</a>
wayneftwover 4 years ago
&gt; M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs...<p>Sure, if you can bear living in a prison complex that has shitty window management and a petty tyrant of a warden.
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fuckthemachineover 4 years ago
I&#x27;d like to read this article but the text&#x2F;background colour combo is headache inducing after a few minutes.. anyone else ?
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ltaover 4 years ago
Too bad their OS is unusable...
tambourine_manover 4 years ago
I submitted the same exact link 8 hours earlier. This HN behavior is very frustrating.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25285489" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=25285489</a>
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jaimex2over 4 years ago
Apple propaganda and not worth your time reading.<p>We got an M1 on pre-order and so far it seems pretty half baked. Some apps work reliably, others outright don&#x27;t. I&#x27;d wait another year at least for the kinks to be worked out.<p>Some notable apps that either dont work or break on use:<p>Anything from Adobe, Google sync, MS Office.
s1k3sover 4 years ago
&gt; M1 Macs embarrass all other PCs — all Intel-based Macs, including automobile-priced Mac Pros, and every single machine running Windows or Linux.<p>Nah, it doesn&#x27;t. Source: I&#x27;ve got all of them
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Jemmover 4 years ago
Apple is a company that really cares about their product but not their customers. Very frustrating.
perryizgr8over 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand the comparison to the iphone and android situation. As far as I can see, android phones are highly competitive with iphone on everything. The longest battery isn&#x27;t on an iphone, the best camera isn&#x27;t on an iphone, the latest screen tech isn&#x27;t on an iphone, etc. etc.<p>Coming to the M1 laptops, they beat comparable Windows laptops in every single metric. It&#x27;s literally just a matter of looking at the numbers and realizing how M1 has every Intel chip beat (in this category).<p>In fact this makes me wonder: if Apple chips are so far ahead, why are iphones not the fastest, best smartphones by a wide margin?
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giorgiozover 4 years ago
The fact that reviewers of M1 chips are also saying things like &quot;Safari is faster than Chrome&quot; or &quot;iOS is faster than Android&quot; do make the other statements on M1 lose credibility.<p>&quot;Safari is faster than Chrome&quot; NOPE Now that IE is gone, Safari is the new IE by being the last not-ever-green browser always behind in features. So many benchmarks again and again proved Chrome and Firefox to be faster than Safari.<p>&quot;iOS is faster than Android&quot; NOPE It just depends on the device. Of course the latest iPhone is faster than a 300$ mid-low range Android device. Pick the top Android devices vs iPhones and you will see it&#x27;s a tough race with no clear winner.
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feelixover 4 years ago
It turns out that the benchmarks for M1 vs latest generation Intel &amp; AMD CPU&#x27;s are indeed overblown, and it is an incremental improvement more than a great leap forward.<p>The source of the confusion has been the benchmarking software. To saturate one core on an Intel processor you need to run two threads, because that&#x27;s the way they are designed. So the single thread benchmarks that have been used so far have been using 50% of the capacity of an Intel CPU core and comparing it with 100% of the capacity of an M1 CPU core.<p>This article breaks it down fully: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wccftech.com&#x2F;why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-are-fundamentally-flawed-with-benchmarks&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wccftech.com&#x2F;why-apple-m1-single-core-comparisons-ar...</a>
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