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Show HN: This website is valid JSON

604 pointsby gpntover 4 years ago

56 comments

bogidonover 4 years ago
For those like me who needed a little help... I do not fully understand the browser rendering process (someone who does please chime in), but what I gather about how this is works is:<p>- the content-type of the page is &quot;text&#x2F;html&quot;, so the browser is trying to render html<p>- there is no special meaning of the #render key to the browser (again the browser doesn&#x27;t know this is json)<p>- browsers are very fault tolerant so they&#x27;ll just skip over your document till they find pieces of html<p>- the JS made by the author is the part that parses the json as json, and it uses the #render key as its metadata section<p>You can try opening a file like this to test for yourself to get a sense of just the browser-parsing part, test.html:<p><pre><code> { &quot;test&quot;: &quot;hello&quot;, &quot;myHtml&quot;: &quot;&lt;html&gt;&lt;meta charset=utf-8&gt;&lt;h1&gt;Hello World&lt;&#x2F;h1&gt;&lt;&#x2F;html&gt;&quot; } </code></pre> I do however get this warning in FireFox so perhaps this is pretty fragile:<p>&gt; The character encoding declaration of the HTML document was not found when prescanning the first 1024 bytes of the file. When viewed in a differently-configured browser, this page will reload automatically. The encoding declaration needs to be moved to be within the first 1024 bytes of the file.<p>I&#x27;m guessing differently-configured means not in quirks mode? Does quirks mode just make the browser extra fault tolerant?
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habitueover 4 years ago
This is a really cool hack.<p>&gt; The JSON must contain only pure information without any concern about design or markup.<p>Wellll.. I mean the json has markdown syntax in it. That&#x27;s a lot nicer than html tags for markup, but it&#x27;s still markup.<p>In case anyone reading hasn&#x27;t seen it before, browsers have a thing called XSLT built into them that does something similar for XML documents. You serve up your data as XML, add a tag that points to an XSLT document, and the browser will use the transform on your document automatically. If the resulting output is renderable XHTML, it&#x27;ll display it like a regular webpage.<p>That being said, I wouldn&#x27;t <i>recommend</i> doing that, since XSLT is a programming language whose syntax is XML itself. Apparently web standards folks in the early 2000s thought the future was XML all the way down.
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fps_dougover 4 years ago
Yes yes, sperate content and markup&#x2F;style. But you can already do this with HTML?<p>The only advantage I see is that you can actually support markdown like you do in your page, since it&#x27;s less verbose than HTML-tags and doesn&#x27;t make the text unreadable if you read it as plain text.<p>But with HTML5 you can introduce arbitrary tag names to pretty much get the same with an XML-like structure instead of json. Just use &lt;subtitle&gt; &lt;what&gt; &lt;description&gt; and supply CSS for it. If you want to consume it with something else, swap out the JSON parser for an XML one, navigate to the body tag and from there on it&#x27;s the same thing.<p>I mean it&#x27;s a cool trick you came up with, but it doesn&#x27;t seem worth the effort, and relying on quirks mode seems brittle.
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jstriebover 4 years ago
Fun fact: for servers that are not too particular about the Content-Type they receive or the presence of extra object attributes, it is also possible to submit (fixed) well-formed JSON using HTML forms with no JavaScript and a dash of hackery.<p><pre><code> &lt;form method=&quot;POST&quot; enctype=&quot;text&#x2F;plain&quot; action=&quot;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;example.com&quot;&gt; &lt;input name=&#x27;{&quot;key1&quot;:&quot;val1&quot;,&quot;params&quot;:{&quot;input&quot;:&quot;value&quot;,&quot;list&quot;:[],},&quot;dummy&quot;:&quot;&#x27; value=&#x27;&quot;}&#x27; hidden&gt; &lt;button&gt;Submit&lt;&#x2F;button&gt; &lt;&#x2F;form&gt; </code></pre> The important bit is to include a &quot;dummy&quot; key at the end of the JSON object, and an input value that closes the quotes and any open curl braces. That way the &quot;=&quot; character sent in the encoding of the form elements doesn&#x27;t interfere with the meaningful JSON content.<p>There might be a clever way to get it to submit dynamic JSON that changes based on user input without JavaScript, but I haven&#x27;t thought enough about it.<p>This technique is sometimes useful for CSRF attacks.
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minikomiover 4 years ago
Wow, now we can write pages like<p><pre><code> { &quot;content&quot;: [ [&quot;html&quot;, {}, [[&quot;head&quot;, {}, []], [&quot;body&quot;, {}, [[&quot;h1&quot;, { id: &quot;main-header&quot; }, [ &quot;Welcome to my&quot;, [&quot;span&quot;, { class: &quot;red-text&quot; }, [&quot;PAGE&quot;]]]], [&quot;h2&quot;, { id: &quot;sub-header&quot; }, [ &quot;It&#x27;s so cool.&quot;, [&quot;br&quot;, {}, nil], &quot;Don&#x27;t you think?&quot;]]]]]]]};</code></pre>
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spondylover 4 years ago
You know, I once had a resume powered by JSON. It was rendered to a PDF (and HTML) but the syntax was backed by JSON. This was years back and I shudder to even recall the idea.<p>I didn&#x27;t create the project mind you, it was some NPM package back when I was a fresh &#x27;un who didn&#x27;t have thoughts on using a billion subdependencies<p>Anyway, I was nearly broke and when I went to apply for the benefit, I was asked for my resume as a word doc<p>Clearly, you can imagine how this conversation went down but I had brought a PDF on a USB which I offered to print out instead.<p>The clerk refused to let me plug in my USB for fear I was going to &quot;hack&quot; her and the HTML page, saving as a PDF with Chrome, took some convincing to ask her to navigate to so it could be printed<p>I guess the lesson here is that if you expect to run out of funds, make sure you have your most essential documents stored via Microsoft Word?
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quineoaover 4 years ago
Isn&#x27;t Reddit like this, in a way? You can append &quot;.json&quot; at the end and get the data for a page. Others can build their own UI on top of this, if they don&#x27;t prefer the first party representation.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;pics&#x2F;.json" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;pics&#x2F;.json</a>
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lqetover 4 years ago
&gt; For example, this is a valid JSON and web page<p>This is a nice project, but it isn&#x27;t valid HTML.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;validator.w3.org&#x2F;nu&#x2F;?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwebdatarender.com%2F" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;validator.w3.org&#x2F;nu&#x2F;?doc=https%3A%2F%2Fwebdatarender...</a>
gpntover 4 years ago
Hello everyone, I created a simple script that allows a website to be a valid JSON and still be able to present the information on the browser.<p>Any feedback is appreciated!
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ipsum2over 4 years ago
I&#x27;m confused about:<p>&gt; The JSON must contain only pure information without any concern about design or markup. All the design and markup required to render the page must be inside the rendering script.<p>The source code has markup in the form of Markdown, e.g. ## or * text <i>
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russellbeattieover 4 years ago
At this point, browsers should allow non-markup files - specifically JS or WASM - to be the base of a web page. Browsers will already automatically add in &lt;html&gt; and &lt;body&gt; into the DOM if they&#x27;re missing on a page, so literally, you could have a website that&#x27;s just a &lt;script&gt;&#x2F;&#x2F;do DOM stuff&lt;&#x2F;script&gt; and it&#x27;d be parsed and run without issues.<p>The index page at this point is mostly just a DOM skeleton on which to hang references to CSS, media, scripts and metadata. We might as well cut out the last step already.<p>If there was an official HTML-to-JSON format, we could even use that as well. It would probably already exist, but the question is always what to do with node attributes, text nodes and child-nodes. There&#x27;s a dozen ways to organize them in JSON.
jhggover 4 years ago
Prior art (rather similar, but instead of being json, it&#x27;s a JPEG): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12262470" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12262470</a><p>tldr: the html is stuffed in the exif data!
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amanziover 4 years ago
This is an interesting technical hack, but I have to ask what problem this is aiming to address?
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Animatsover 4 years ago
I think someone just re-invented XSLT.
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tyingqover 4 years ago
IE11 doesn&#x27;t render anything. Console errors:<p>HTML1527: DOCTYPE expected. Consider adding a valid HTML5 doctype: &quot;&lt;!DOCTYPE html&gt;&quot;. webdatarender.com (2,0)<p>HTML1513: Extra &quot;&lt;html&gt;&quot; tag found. Only one &quot;&lt;html&gt;&quot; tag should exist per document. webdatarender.com (86,15)<p>SCRIPT1002: Syntax error render-basic-1.0.3.js (1,4)<p>HTML1506: Unexpected token. webdatarender.com (86,104)
ajxsover 4 years ago
It&#x27;s a neat trick using the Browser&#x27;s Quirks Mode to load JSON that can bootstrap a framework, I&#x27;m not sure I really understand the benefit though. In order to actually get to the point of bootstrapping, the server has already transferred all of the content, plus the bootstrapping Javascript in a single payload. It seems like this implementation has the weaknesses of using a Javascript framework, without the benefits. Together with all of the weaknesses of static content, without the benefits. All the while depending on a quirk of the browser for support, which not all browsers may support.
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lxeover 4 years ago
HTML is a markup&#x2F;description language JSON is a markup&#x2F;description language<p>Cool, but why?
beshrkayaliover 4 years ago
From what I can see, your JSON still contains &quot;style&quot; information in the form of Markdown. So this doesn&#x27;t really separate information from design. If we&#x27;re going to accept Makrdown as minimal styling, why not just use regular HTML. Which technically <i>is</i> already separating between information (HTML markup) and design (CSS).
trevor-eover 4 years ago
The json.org description of an &quot;object&quot; is:<p>&gt; An object is an unordered set of name&#x2F;value pairs.<p>But this site seems to be assuming that the key&#x2F;value pairs are parsed in their original ordering for everything to display properly. Is it safe to assume JavaScript will always parse the keys in order?
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fanickover 4 years ago
At my previous job I worked at a whole UI framework (server side) based on XSLT transformations. We built kind of abstraction layer on top of ExtJS,HighCharts and some 3D rendering lib at that time. It was hell to debug anything in there because the output was HTML sprinkled with JavaScript and it was not always easy to identify what part of XML and XSLT was responsible for given part of output. It was quite successfully used in one internal ERP mashup app that sucked data out of some SAP system. Learning XSLT actually helped me understand C++ templates (big aha moment). So we had this XSLT monster crunching on XML files but what we really needed was JSX which probably wasn&#x27;t a thing until few years into the project.
Gollapalliover 4 years ago
I love this!<p>You could use this to syndicate blog posts, sort of like RSS, except each entry is JSON and could be viewed as it&#x27;s own page rendered by it&#x27;s own renderer (carried by a CDN and cached by the browser), or by the renderer of the users choice.
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stephenrover 4 years ago
Or you could... you know.. do type negotiation per-request based on the Accept header, and serve the rendered markup sans JSON bullshit to clients requesting markup, and the JSON data to clients requesting JSON.<p>I know it&#x27;s a complex idea, and it&#x27;s hard to grasp ideas when they&#x27;re first proposed, but the payoff is often worth the time invested. Even though it&#x27;s only been &lt;checks notes&gt; 24 years since the RFC defining the Accept header was published, maybe it&#x27;d be worth spending say, 10 minutes reading about what it is, rather than however long it took you to write this abomination?
thomasfromcdnjsover 4 years ago
Not related to the project but I&#x27;m working on jsonblog.com, your whole blog can be rendered from a blog.json file. Will look into WDR to see if it could be relevant.
rognjenover 4 years ago
Very interesting.<p>My immediate thought for a use case is to debug APIs. Pass in a param that adds this to the response and get it in a more human readable form. Will test it out.
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znpyover 4 years ago
&gt; The website is readily available to be consumed outside the browser via JSON, but also still presentable to users accessing through the web browser.<p>Wasn&#x27;t XHTML (and thus html5) supposed to be parsable, since it&#x27;s basically XML (specifically, the html spec redefined as XML) ?
wgxover 4 years ago
This is neat! Like a much more advanced, polished version of the thing I made a month or so ago:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wgx.github.io&#x2F;anypage&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wgx.github.io&#x2F;anypage&#x2F;</a><p>(It&#x27;s the world&#x27;s worst CMS)
sonicrocketmanover 4 years ago
As a silly concept, I approve.<p>As a blogging platform, please don&#x27;t do this. It breaks all SEO, microformats, RSS feed discovery, rel=me ties, and much, much more.<p>HTML is great. Please use it for your websites.<p>source: runs a open-web friendly microblogging platform
neologover 4 years ago
I wonder is it possible to do this without running any javascript, only HTML5&#x2F;CSS?
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bsldldover 4 years ago
Not excatly like this, but there is another project, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jasonelle.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jasonelle.com</a>, that renders JSON to Android and iOS applications :)<p>Nice project though!
max_over 4 years ago
Wow. Hacker News is really the place to be I was just thinking of a project like this.<p>Only that my goal was to create a browser for that an alternative to the web.<p>It would work on the same principle of separating data from information
gwbas1cover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m curious about caching potential with this approach.<p>Meaning: If the javascript (and other content) loaded via #render is highly cacheable, can this lead to pages that display as soon as the JSON is loaded?
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bikamonkiover 4 years ago
Hipsterism 3.0 Love it!
tiborsaasover 4 years ago
It would be neat to auto load HTML templates from files since if you edit them like this, you lose all the great tooling your IDE can provide to edit HTML.
gildasover 4 years ago
Cool hack! Similarly, this page is valid ZIP<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gildas-lormeau.github.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gildas-lormeau.github.io&#x2F;</a>
allenuover 4 years ago
I love this. I read through the page source before reading the content of the blog fully to work out what it does. Really simple idea, but clever!
z3t4over 4 years ago
This reminds me of the semantic web &#x2F; structured data problem that we all have been trying to solve for the last 20 years.
adibalcanover 4 years ago
I think that the advantage of this approach is that same output can be consumed either by browser or an API consumer.
baddateover 4 years ago
This is an amazing idea, but this is very complicated to write ,I think, because you need to write html lines.
durnygburover 4 years ago
Markup-inside-data instead of markup-inside-logic? (JSX). You are more elegant than Facebook, Sir.
otabdeveloper4over 4 years ago
&gt; WDR is a format to separate the website&#x27;s information and design.<p>That&#x27;s what HTML and CSS is, no?
raoofover 4 years ago
if you put the initiator at the top and also add &quot;&lt;script&gt; window.stop();&lt;&#x2F;script&gt;&quot; the page start rendering immediately. I have the same idea but for running simple x86 linux binary in the browser. anybody interested?
cocktailpeanutsover 4 years ago
what kind of sorcery is this...
nkjoepover 4 years ago
It doesn&#x27;t work on my Chrome 87.0.4280.88 MacOS. It works on Safari though.
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Asmod4nover 4 years ago
This is the most far away thing possible from server side rendering, correct?
SrslyJoshover 4 years ago
Relying on the order of keys in an object seems like a bad idea.
whereistimboover 4 years ago
Thanks a lot! Totally find this useful for my single page diary!
User23over 4 years ago
That I use noscript made this much more amusing.
crb002over 4 years ago
This perversion needs a Qt example. Any takers?
outsomniaover 4 years ago
Strict CSP or this... pick one...
parisiankaover 4 years ago
Seen this on on IH
tunnuzover 4 years ago
This is so cool!
minho-comcom-aiover 4 years ago
that&#x27;s why we got user-agent.
brianzelipover 4 years ago
Here&#x27;s the page source:<p>```html<p><pre><code> { &quot;#info&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;WDR&quot; }, &quot;subtitle&quot;: &quot;Web Data Render&quot;, &quot;title&quot;: &quot;# WDR&quot;, &quot;what&quot;: { &quot;title&quot; : &quot;## What is WDR?&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;This website is a valid **[JSON](&#x2F;&#x2F;www.json.org&#x2F;)**!&quot;, &quot;Check the source code. Instead of the habitual HTML and CSS, you will see just a plain JSON with the website&#x27;s information.&quot;, &quot;WDR is a format to separate the website&#x27;s **information** and **design**.&quot;, &quot;The website is readily available to be consumed outside the browser via JSON, but also still presentable to users accessing through the web browser.&quot; ] }, &quot;subscribe&quot;: &quot;I&#x27;m creating a **blog platform** using this concept. Follow me on [Twitter](&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;gpiresnt) to be notified when is ready! &quot;, &quot;how&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;## How it works&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;It works by embedding a small initiator at the end of the JSON file.&quot;, &quot;For example, this is a valid JSON and web page:&quot;, &quot;```{\n \&quot;title\&quot;: \&quot;Example Page\&quot;,\n \&quot;description\&quot;: \&quot;This is an example.\&quot;,\n \&quot;#render\&quot;: \&quot;&amp;lt;html hidden&amp;gt;&amp;lt;script src=&#x2F;render.js&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&#x2F;script&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&#x2F;html&amp;gt;\&quot;\n}```&quot;, &quot;The script `render.js` receives the JSON as input and is responsible to render the page.&quot; ] }, &quot;usage&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;## Usage&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;First create an HTML file with the JSON information:&quot;, &quot;```{\n \&quot;title\&quot;: \&quot;Example Page\&quot;,\n \&quot;description\&quot;: \&quot;This is an example.\&quot;\n}```&quot;, &quot;Include the initiator at the bottom:&quot;, &quot;```{\n \&quot;title\&quot;: \&quot;Example Page\&quot;,\n \&quot;description\&quot;: \&quot;This is an example.\&quot;,\n \&quot;#render\&quot;: \&quot;&amp;lt;html hidden&amp;gt;&amp;lt;meta charset=utf-8&amp;gt;&amp;lt;script src=&#x2F;render.js&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&#x2F;script&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&#x2F;html&amp;gt;\&quot;\n}```&quot;, &quot;The next section explains how to create the `render.js`.&quot; ] }, &quot;only-data&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;** Pure information **&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;The JSON must contain only pure information without any concern about design or markup. All the design and markup required to render the page must be inside the rendering script.&quot; ] }, &quot;create-render&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;## Creating a render&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;Create a new javascript project and install the package `wdr-loader`:&quot;, &quot;```npm install wdr-loader```&quot;, &quot;Call the `loader` function to retrieve the JSON:&quot;, &quot;```import loader from &#x27;wdr-loader&#x27;;\nloader(data =&gt; render(data));```&quot;, &quot;Create a `render` function to handle the data and render the HTML. Below is an example using simple `innerHTML`:&quot;, &quot;```function render(data) {\n document.head.innerHTML = `\n &amp;lt;meta charset=\&quot;utf-8\&quot;&amp;gt;\n &amp;lt;meta name=\&quot;viewport\&quot; content=\&quot;width=device-width, initial-scale=1\&quot; &#x2F;&amp;gt;\n &amp;lt;title&amp;gt;${data.title}&amp;lt;&#x2F;title&amp;gt;`;\n\n document.body.innerHTML = `\n &amp;lt;section&amp;gt;\n &amp;lt;h1&amp;gt;${data.title}&amp;lt;&#x2F;h1&amp;gt;\n &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;${data.description}&amp;lt;p&amp;gt;\n &amp;lt;&#x2F;section&amp;gt;`;\n}```&quot;, &quot;The `wdr-loader` code is available on [GitHub](&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;webdatarender&#x2F;wdr-loader) with an example.&quot; ] }, &quot;basic-render&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;## Basic render&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;If you don&#x27;t want to create a render right now, it is available a basic render (used on this very website) to immediate use:&quot; ], &quot;download&quot;: &quot;[render-basic-1.0.3.js](&#x2F;&#x2F;webdatarender.com&#x2F;dist&#x2F;render-basic-1.0.3.js)&quot;, &quot;instructions&quot;: [ &quot;Just download the script and include it on the initiator directly:&quot;, &quot;```{\n \&quot;title\&quot;: \&quot;# Example Page\&quot;,\n \&quot;description\&quot;: \&quot;This is an example.\&quot;,\n \&quot;#render\&quot;: \&quot;&amp;lt;html hidden&amp;gt;&amp;lt;meta charset=utf-8&amp;gt;&amp;lt;script src=&#x2F;render-basic-1.0.3.js&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&#x2F;script&amp;gt;&amp;lt;&#x2F;html&amp;gt;\&quot;\n}```&quot;, &quot;The code is available on [GitHub](&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;webdatarender&#x2F;wdr-render-basic).&quot; ] }, &quot;remarks&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;## Remarks&quot;, &quot;description&quot;: [ &quot;• The page is rendered in [quirks mode](&#x2F;&#x2F;developer.mozilla.org&#x2F;en-US&#x2F;docs&#x2F;Web&#x2F;HTML&#x2F;Quirks_Mode_and_Standards_Mode) and can present some layout differences on different browsers.&quot;, &quot;• Although javascript is necessary to render the page, most search engines, like [Google](https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.google.com&#x2F;speed&#x2F;pagespeed&#x2F;insights&#x2F;?url=webdatarender.com) or [Bing](https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bing.com&#x2F;webmaster&#x2F;tools&#x2F;mobile-friendliness), will be able to read the page correctly.&quot;, &quot;• If you want to display the JSON for users that have javascript disabled, you can include `noscript` at the initiator: ```&amp;#x3C;noscript&amp;#x3E;&amp;#x3C;style&amp;#x3E;html{display:block !important; white-space:pre}&amp;#x3C;&#x2F;style&amp;#x3E;&amp;#x3C;&#x2F;noscript&amp;#x3E;```&quot; ] }, &quot;support&quot;: { &quot;title&quot;: &quot;## Need Help? &quot;, &quot;description&quot;: &quot;If you need help, have any feedback or just want to say hi, send me an [email](mailto:gpiresnt@gmail.com).&quot; }, &quot;about&quot;: { &quot;creator&quot;: &quot;Created by [@gpiresnt](&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;gpiresnt)&quot;, &quot;logo&quot;: &quot;![logo](&#x2F;img&#x2F;logo.png)&quot; }, &quot;#render&quot;: { &quot;_&quot;: &quot;&lt;html hidden&gt;&lt;meta charset=utf-8&gt;&lt;script src=&#x2F;dist&#x2F;render-basic-1.0.3.js&gt;&lt;&#x2F;script&gt;&lt;&#x2F;html&gt;&lt;noscript&gt;&lt;style&gt;html{display:block !important; white-space:pre}&lt;&#x2F;style&gt;&lt;&#x2F;noscript&gt;&quot;, &quot;css&quot;: &quot;css&#x2F;main.css&quot; } } </code></pre> ```
FriedrichNover 4 years ago
Cool, you made a blank web page!
pixelbreakerover 4 years ago
why? whyyyyy?
zellyover 4 years ago
RIP SEO
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