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Show HN: Find the safest well lit walking route between two locations

222 pointsby mfbx9da4over 4 years ago

26 comments

neilvover 4 years ago
Out of several thousand hours (close to 10K?) of late-night walking in urban areas (such as from working into the wee hours, then walking home all the way across town), I&#x27;ve been held up at gunpoint twice, discouraged or thwarted countless other approaches by muggers, and several times had bottles thrown at me.<p>Two of the locations that were memorably the most dangerous-seeming were some of the best-lit, and they weren&#x27;t lit because they were high-crime.<p>Some other factors to consider in what&#x27;s safe and&#x2F;or feels safe:<p>* The presence of houses on the sidewalk (with people in them who might hear you, and doors you could go bang on), even if the street is dark except for the occasional porch light or glow through the drapes.<p>* Presence of open businesses (restaurants, hotels, cafes, hospitals, donut shops), which are pretty obviously places you can run into, where there will be other people.<p>* On the other side of open businesses being good... people outside of nightlife businesses can be risky, and sometimes feel risky. (Usually innocuous here, but walk enough, and you&#x27;ll eventually encounter drunk people looking to fight, and also see people looking to prey upon someone from the concentration of candidates out late at night. And you&#x27;ll read news reports of criminal score-settling with gunshots, outside some of the bars&#x2F;clubs you walk past every night.)<p>* Office buildings with visible security guard desk in the lobby. In practice, I think they could only phone the police while you&#x27;re getting stabbed against their glass wall, but the witness will discourage some attackers, and it seemed much more reassuring than an empty skyscraper lobby on a completely deserted downtown street.<p>* Possibly: Unlocked lobby&#x2F;vestibule front doors of apartment buildings, which aren&#x27;t obviously reassuring like an open business with people inside, but (if you paired this info with tips) can be used by walkers to thwart attackers.<p>* Street crime data.<p>(I should add that I&#x27;m white and male, and I know other groups of people face additional threats on the street, but I don&#x27;t know how my experience applies to that.)
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Vinnlover 4 years ago
Question: I solve quests in StreetComplete [1], and one of the things it asks me is whether a stretch of way is lit. Sometimes, these stretches can be very short (like 1m), e.g. at intersections. I typically only mark those as lit if there&#x27;s a streetlamp directly on it - so if there&#x27;s not, I&#x27;ll mark it as unlit even though nearby streetlamps do shine on it.<p>Is that the right thing to do?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;westnordost&#x2F;StreetComplete" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;westnordost&#x2F;StreetComplete</a>
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mac-chaffeeover 4 years ago
This is the first time I&#x27;ve seen a .geojson file and I was surprised to see Github actually renders it on a map: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;mfbx9da4&#x2F;brightpath-backend&#x2F;blob&#x2F;b0f5f1c31705785524f7f4c6219d12e29264e9ef&#x2F;data&#x2F;central.geojson" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;mfbx9da4&#x2F;brightpath-backend&#x2F;blob&#x2F;b0f5f1c3...</a>
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confidantlakeover 4 years ago
That is a great idea! Often I find walking directions put me on busy, unsafe streets, or make me take unsafe crossings. Didn&#x27;t even think about the well lit part, but that is important as well. Gl with this!
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cbdumasover 4 years ago
This is cool, however there is an implicit assertion here that better lit = safer. As far as I can tell this is questionable at best, a decent roundup of studies can be found here <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;wonk&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2017&#x2F;11&#x2F;02&#x2F;what-actually-happens-to-crime-when-the-lights-are-on-as-rick-perry-suggests&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.washingtonpost.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;wonk&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2017&#x2F;11&#x2F;02&#x2F;what-...</a>
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karussellover 4 years ago
In a team at a hackathon I implemented a similar thing (safe way to school) with GraphHopper: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;karussell&#x2F;nordhopper" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;karussell&#x2F;nordhopper</a> (Disclaimer: I&#x27;m one of the GraphHopper devs)<p>There is no mobile app only a simple web app. But we also considered crash data from the German government which could be important. Additionally with GraphHopper walking routes avoid bigger streets and consider many signals from OpenStreetMap data. My personal route would probably just to avoid some dark parks to be honest as every detour is ugly.<p>And so a nice feature is the customizable routing where you can change your preferences per request because it is not clear if a longer detour along lamps is really safer if it is twice the length and at which point your personal preferences are or how you wish to mix other signals into the cost function of the route.<p>Check out the next release soon that will get a heavily improved customization feature: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;graphhopper&#x2F;graphhopper&#x2F;pull&#x2F;2209" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;graphhopper&#x2F;graphhopper&#x2F;pull&#x2F;2209</a>
ape4over 4 years ago
A route where there are other people is more important than well lit. Eg a busy shopping street vs a well-lit back street.
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smurf_tover 4 years ago
I have attended a talk of a team who built something similar few years ago, it might be interesting for you <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;goodcitylife.org&#x2F;happymaps&#x2F;index.php" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;goodcitylife.org&#x2F;happymaps&#x2F;index.php</a>
ilyas121over 4 years ago
Where does the data come from for defining sketch areas?
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realjohngover 4 years ago
Great idea. I can certainly relate to the feeling of thinking &quot;this is sketch&quot; while following a google map route.<p>Google should just build this feature in.
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uoaeiover 4 years ago
This gives me the same strong negative impression as the Citizen and Nextdoor apps.<p>The idea makes sense in some abstract theoretical way, but in practice this will simply reflect the biases of users by representing the subjective &quot;sketchiness&quot; of (typically) poorer areas, leading to gentrified travel routes that siphon yet more business away from communities who could really use it.
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underyxover 4 years ago
Heya, congrats on getting on the HN front page! I&#x27;m Bence, one of the judges from hack.travel, where I believe this project originated. (Note for bystanders: the project got first place at that hackathon.)<p>I wonder what&#x27;s been up with the project and why the sudden activity? Have you been doing anything cool behind the scenes?
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ebg13over 4 years ago
Nice idea and implementation!<p>In case you plan to move this from hackathon experiment to real product, to me the second letter in the logo splash (first image in the readme) looks like an &quot;l&quot; instead of the &quot;r&quot; that it&#x27;s supposed to be. So I first read it as &quot;BlightPath&quot; which is probably not desired.
pimlottcover 4 years ago
A similar idea I’ve often thought about would be a route planner than finds the path with the most shade on hot days. You’d have to take topography and building heights into account, along with the time of day. Weather is a factor too - overcast skies? Great! Would be an interesting problem to work on.
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spicybrightover 4 years ago
Eh, it&#x27;s not bad, but phones are so distracting while walking. I use walking directions sometimes and it&#x27;s like wearing blinders to an extent. You need all your senses in focus if you really want to be safe while walking somewhere unfamiliar.
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0x008over 4 years ago
I wonder how you would define a proper loss function for this? You probably need to optimize distance versus “sketchyness”. How would one go about that? Also every user probably has a different feeling about how much sketch they will endure to save a couple minutes walking distance.
gradstudentover 4 years ago
From the description of the backend:<p>&gt; Clean geojson to remove dark pathways.<p>Doesn&#x27;t this eliminate routes with tradeoffs? e.g., cutting through a small park or alleyway may not be so risky (the other end is visible, both ends are well lit) while the alternative route may be very long in comparison?
dustedover 4 years ago
It says a lot about a society that people even think along those lines. I often take a walk in the night, it feels nice, surrounded by darkness in the cool night, looking at the stars, listening to the animals scrambling around in the fields and ditches.
jhowellover 4 years ago
Use technology to protect users from walking down streets populated by people negatively impacted by socioeconomic conditions (poverty, mental health, food insecurity), or use technology to bring awareness and compassion to the most vulnerable.
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Razenganover 4 years ago
It&#x27;d be nice to see a list of the few places in the world where it&#x27;s generally safe to walk alone at night, with your iPhone out and everything. I can only think of Singapore and Japan, along with maybe some parts of Europe.
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bigspider421over 4 years ago
There&#x27;s also a direct correlation between homeless presence &amp; crime. Are there any available APIs for mapping encampment locations?<p>Living in Californian cities I&#x27;ve come to realize that homelessness should be illegal.
ilovefoodover 4 years ago
Very good job with this. I am working on a similar project and I was wondering if you are planning on hosting your own OSM tiles or using a service (Mapbox is listed, but are you going with that?) ? Thanks!
pc86over 4 years ago
&gt; <i>3. Clean geojson to remove dark pathways.</i><p>I sort of expected this to be the &quot;draw the rest of the owl&quot; step, but apparently &quot;Lit&quot; is actually a property of the geojson data! Very interesting.
Gysover 4 years ago
Interesting, especially when usage patterns emerge. I wonder for which countries, cities and neighborhoods this ends up being used mostly.<p>I guess usage relates to safety.
Cyber_squadover 4 years ago
Coll but how you collect the source of light point in each roads?<p>Are the application actively recording light intensity? Are they coming from open-data?
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petermcneeleyover 4 years ago
&quot;For fear of his yasa and punishment his followers were so well disciplined that during his reign no traveller, so long as he was near his army, had need of guard or patrol on any stretch of road ; and, as is said by way of hyperbole, a woman with a golden vessel on her head might walk alone without fear or dread.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;AskHistorians&#x2F;comments&#x2F;3x0ae1&#x2F;was_there_actually_a_saying_during_the_pax&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;AskHistorians&#x2F;comments&#x2F;3x0ae1&#x2F;was_t...</a>
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