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Nevada bill would allow tech companies to create governments

142 pointsby waynekerrover 4 years ago

31 comments

tyleoover 4 years ago
This was also shared recently with some interesting discussion at: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26034078" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26034078</a>
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Mountain_Skiesover 4 years ago
Some members of the Georgia legislature tried to pass a bill about a decade and a half ago that would have allowed property development companies to set up their own local governments. They would have been HOAs on steroids, extending the power of the developers, and later the property owners, out of the realm of civil enforcement and into that of state backed government. The developers wanted it because they wanted to go beyond just building subdivision and get into building entire masterplanned cities, which would happen in phases over decades. That&#x27;s difficult to do when there are pesky residents getting involved in everything once the first residential phase is completed. Think maybe the Great Recession killed it off but it certainly wasn&#x27;t popular in the press or with community groups so it might have been defeated even if the economy didn&#x27;t sour. Bet we see this idea or variations of it keep coming back over and over again.
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Bjorkbatover 4 years ago
Reminds me of a neighborhood in Chicago called Pullman. Originally, it was a company town, founded by George Pullman of the Pullman Palace Car Company.<p>On the one hand, it was allegedly quite gorgeous and housing there had many amenities considered quite modern for the time. The town also had a very low mortality rate due to how clean it was.<p>On the other hand, George Pullman founded the town partly as a social enterprise, believing he could make his workers happy and productive through urban planning and strict rules. This partly meant eliminating businesses catering primarily to vice (the only establishment that served alcohol was the hotel, which workers rarely entered). He would also regularly inspect workers homes to ensure that they met certain standards of cleanliness.<p>It was also, first and foremost, a company town, and one that was expected to be profitable at that. As a consequence, you could only rent housing, not buy it, and the rent was expected to subsidize the town rather than the town subsidizing worker expenses. Additionally, public gatherings were prohibited unless sanctioned by the company, hence why visitors often remarked that the place looked empty.<p>In the end the company wound up cutting wages after the panic of 1893, but not cutting the already-high rents. This led to the Pullman Strike of 1894, which would go on for 2 months and would eventually end with the company being forced to sell its residential holdings, essentially ending the Pullman Company&#x27;s reign over the town of Pullman. George Pullman would die 3 years later from a heart attack.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;George_Pullman" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;George_Pullman</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;paleofuture.gizmodo.com&#x2F;blood-on-the-tracks-in-pullman-chicagolands-failed-cap-1574508996" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;paleofuture.gizmodo.com&#x2F;blood-on-the-tracks-in-pullm...</a><p>Oh, sure, these are tech companies, not railroad companies, but you have to remember that the Pullman Car Company was a tech company back in its era (a railroad car that functions as a hotel!), and George Pullman was regarded as a benign industrialist, much like how we might see Bill Gates today. The town of Pullman was considered bright and modern and &quot;smart&quot; for its time, much how we&#x27;d likely view a tech company town.<p>In the end, as much as we like to bemoan the inefficiencies of city government, we&#x27;re probably better off. Nonetheless, I&#x27;m rather curious to see how this goes.
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tyingqover 4 years ago
Uh, we tried this before.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Company_town" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Company_town</a>
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vmceptionover 4 years ago
I already pay contractors with corporate scrip every time some telegram moderator wants to get payment in one of my project’s tokens. I think it’s funny and it works. It’s very convenient because I keep my actual revenue, I haven’t diluted any shares of the company, and the payment is still a deductible expense that occurred. (The best analogy is if Sony paid a $600 invoice with a PS5 and the contractor accepted that, or if Nike paid a sneakerhead influencer with shoes. These are all liquid assets easily convertible to cash at the same price they were earned).<p>The liquidity possibilities is what makes this different than prior corporate scrip and how that was a pejorative.<p>In some circumstances I’m the only contributor to the liquidity pool so they’re selling directly back to me. Some think they are punishing me by selling when they don’t believe in an outcome, and I’m like you just sold ... to me ... at a lower price than you earned it.... paying contractors that immediately sell is more like having a put on your own token! it’s an unparalleled amount of control.<p>Not too far of a stretch to bring back the corporate towns too.<p>The 20s are going to be fascinating.
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betwixthewiresover 4 years ago
I thought we learned this lesson with the Colorado labor wars. Giving companies the power to jail their employees is not a good idea, anyone who can&#x27;t see it is stupid or a grifter.
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dmatechover 4 years ago
What&#x27;s many people forget is that local governments themselves are special types of corporations (specifically &quot;municipal corporations&quot;). They can even go bankrupt (unlike the states whose devolved power they use).
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auganovover 4 years ago
The bill&#x27;s draft sounds much more tame. Seems like a novel take on free trade zone style initiatives. The company gets to make a lot of decisions early on but eventually it won&#x27;t have much control left.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scribd.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;493267147&#x2F;Innovation-Zone-Bill-Draft-update-1-31-2021" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scribd.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;493267147&#x2F;Innovation-Zone-Bi...</a>
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stuaxoover 4 years ago
The cyberpunk genre was meant as warning not a template.
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jmnicolasover 4 years ago
Back in the 90s, the tabletop RPGs Cyberpunk and Shadowrunner were describing a futuristic dark world were corporations were ruling the world.<p>Given what those games were envisioning I&#x27;d rather keep it as a fiction though.
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atlasunshruggedover 4 years ago
I think this is really fascinating and I&#x27;m bullish on the idea of charter cities (or variances on them), and Nevada desperately needs to transition away from dependence on gaming&#x2F;tourism for their revenue. That said, this hasn&#x27;t passed the legislature and I will be very curious if it doesn&#x27;t get held up in federal court - I&#x27;d be surprised if there weren&#x27;t a fight from the feds about ceding this amount of power to a state.
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staplungover 4 years ago
Reminds me of _Snow Crash_&#x27;s FOQNEs: Franchise-Organized Quasi National Entities. Now all we need is Postmates but for skateboarders. Maybe the Deliverator is just an Uber Eats driver.
antattackover 4 years ago
I wonder how different would this be from early 1900 housing provided to workers by businesses, such as Ford Motor Company?<p>It seems to me that even greater dependency on their employer is not what a freedom loving people would want.
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FpUserover 4 years ago
&quot; ...<p>You load 16 tons, what do you get?<p>Another day older and deeper in debt<p>St. Peter don&#x27;t you call me, &#x27;cause I can&#x27;t go<p>I owe my soul to the company store ...&quot;
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coding123over 4 years ago
Air, Water and sound pollution wet dream.
SubiculumCodeover 4 years ago
Citizens first. Citizens first always.<p>Those that frame this within freedom of choice to live or not live in a corp County, I respond that people will go to where the jobs are. Sure, serfs can choose to go starve in the forest, but if they stay on the lord&#x27;s land and work, they at least get to eat. Freedom of choice is oppressed by basic necessity. These proposals are a slippery slope, given housing and employment pressures.<p>edit: honestly shocked by the number of people here willing to grant corporations&#x2F;companies even more power.
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opportuneover 4 years ago
I would honestly give it a shot to live in a company town run by my employer (a large Bay Area tech company) in Nevada. It would be interesting to live in a communal setting where food&#x2F;housing&#x2F;etc is gratis and I unironically think the sense of community would be so much higher than it is otherwise (nil). I have no kids and no aversion to moving away if needed so the risks are quite low.<p>That said, there would be some interesting problems to overcome. To what degree of control do community activities&#x2F;organizations go through the parent corporation, or are they done entirely independently? What happens if someone commits a crime? Would the corporation run schools? How does the corporation handle dating&#x2F;gender imbalance?
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eastonover 4 years ago
Disney has one of these in the Reedy Creek Improvement District[0], which the State of Florida created to give Disney control of a county so that they didn&#x27;t have to go get permission every time they wanted to add something to Disney World (or, at time it was created, the EPCOT planned city[1]).<p>0: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reedy_Creek_Improvement_Distri...</a><p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;EPCOT_(concept)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;EPCOT_(concept)</a>
brudgersover 4 years ago
Florida did it for Disney decades ago:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reedy_Creek_Improvement_Dist...</a>
vericiabover 4 years ago
Back in 1926 when Monsanto was a chemical manufacturer they incorporated the village of Monsanto, Illinois (later renamed Sauget) and had a chemical plant constructed there. The village is less than 5 square miles but, strangely enough, now contains two Superfund sites.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sauget,_Illinois" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sauget,_Illinois</a>
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m23khanover 4 years ago
would this lead to era of enhanced employee loyalty to the Company? For example, if the company town provides comforts of a well supplied, suburban AND closed-gate lifestyle for workers and their families, people would think many times over before leaving the company.<p>This phenomenon is present in Saudi Arabia - Abqaiq (Spelling) and Ras-Tanura are both company towns for Aramco Oil Company and even Universities like King Fahd University (KFUPM) has comfortable, suburban-style residential quarters for its Faculty.<p>In fact, driving through Abqaiq and Ras-Tanura would seem as if you are magically transported to suburbs of USA. I kid you not.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Saudi_Aramco_Residential_Camp_in_Dhahran" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Saudi_Aramco_Residential_Camp_...</a>
anonymouse008over 4 years ago
Somehow I read this and think it’s more about hierarchy of power rather than a free and open bestowal.<p>By becoming a municipality or locality, the state Supreme Court has greater jurisdiction over the company and on top of that becomes common law land - essentially short circuiting the Section 230 debate.
atlasunshruggedover 4 years ago
Anyone on this thread working in the charter city space or interested in exploring it? I&#x27;ve been looking into it for a while (not in the U.S.) and would love to chat with other folks who are interested.
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spaetzleesserover 4 years ago
Considering that most large companies internally are run communist planned economies (5 year plans, tons of propaganda from leadership, denial of inconvenient reality) I would imagine this will go the same way. They will start out well and slowly deteriorate.
LatteLazyover 4 years ago
Is this any different from Las Vegas (or rather the unincorporated zone with the casinos next to the city of Las Vegas)?
DC1350over 4 years ago
The future is to have enclaves of high income remote workers who pay a flat fee for the government services they use instead of an arbitrary % based on where they live. This is a good development. Income tax is not well justified anymore since earned income and physical location have no relationship for the workers who pay the majority of tax burden.
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alfiedotwtfover 4 years ago
Anyone else feel like serfdom is coming back into fashion
VectorLockover 4 years ago
Who&#x27;s ready to move to TelsaTown, NV?
KingOfCodersover 4 years ago
First I thought &quot;Nevada Bill&quot; was the name of a gunslinger.
beckman466over 4 years ago
This has been happening for years in the global south (developing countries). Global north firms buy huge swathes of land to build factories on, to cut down rainforests and dump their waste. The government officials (always supported by US &amp; Europe) get some nice kickbacks, while the local working class suffers. [1]<p>Oh is it scary that the capitalists are starting to exploit in this way in the north? We need more north-south solidarity.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=btF6nKHo2i0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=btF6nKHo2i0</a>
seibeljover 4 years ago
It’s worth a shot. If people voluntarily choose to move there, it’s the right of people to choose how they live. If you don’t agree with this, then you should want to ban communal compounds too, which are very similar cessations of authority to non-democratic institutions.
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