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Microbial ecosystems in the mouth and gut are linked to many ills

304 pointsby aluketover 4 years ago

28 comments

dannygrannickover 4 years ago
Hi everyone! We’re planning to submit our formal launch on Hacker News in a few weeks, but given this post and all of the discussion around it I thought I would share a quick background now!<p>Bristle (bristlehealth.com) is leveraging the oral microbiome to pioneer oral health testing and care. We use metagenomic sequencing to analyze the oral microbiome from a saliva sample - looking at fungi, bacteria, and viruses - delivering evidence-based insights around oral health.<p>We are offering an early access program (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bristlehealth.com&#x2F;pages&#x2F;early-access" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bristlehealth.com&#x2F;pages&#x2F;early-access</a>) providing oral microbiome testing and consumer research reports, with literature-backed insights accessed through an interactive web app. We’re charging users $50 and will only bill you when we ship your kit.<p>If you’re interested in learning more about your oral microbiome, please sign up! We literally launched yesterday and have gotten tons of interest based on exactly what’s being discussed here. We’re letting participants into the program in batches but will be turning kits around rapidly.<p>If anyone wants to chat more feel free to reach out to info@bristlehealth.com. As I said, we will have a dedicated HN launch with lots more information in the coming weeks, but wanted to share given the interest and that we have this ready to go.
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pazimzadehover 4 years ago
&gt; Dr Sampson has tested this hypothesis in mice. He bred a strain of E. coli that cannot make Curli and injected mice with it, while injecting others with unmodified bacteria. Those that received Curli-producing bacteria expressed higher levels of synuclein and demonstrated symptoms like involuntary rigidity which, when seen in people, are associated with Parkinson’s disease. That is tantalising.<p>These mice were mono-colonized with E. coli, whereas both mice and humans normally have a diverse gut flora. I colonize mice with E. coli containing curli all the time and the mice do not exhibit any rigidity or symptoms of Parkinson&#x27;s. So it&#x27;s interesting but not quite as huge of an effect as you might think, unless your microbial flora is really disrupted. May be relevant if you have an antibiotic resistant strain of E. coli blooming in your intestine following antibiotic treatment&#x2F;some other disruption of your microbiota.<p>A gut bacterial amyloid promotes α-synuclein aggregation and motor impairment in mice <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC7012599&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC7012599&#x2F;</a>
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bigmattystylesover 4 years ago
Completely anecdotal, personal experience. It wasn&#x27;t Accutane but when I was a pimply teen, in an effort to remedy the acne, I was prescribed doxycycline and another topical antibacterial ointment; in any case, I never had heartburn or experienced depression prior to that but a few months after starting those meds, both started. It&#x27;s likely unrelated but whenever I read how crucial biomes are - I can&#x27;t help but wonder. For the record, I preferred the acne.
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arminiusreturnsover 4 years ago
I had the pleasure to work with a top geneticist whose domain of specialty was the microbiome, and he continually insisted there are tons of discoveries to be made in the arena (which he and those researchers we sequenced for did often, from dentistry to studies of the monitor lizard to chrons disease, just all over in subjects you might not expect).<p>Less on topic, I learned how to read scientific papers and filter bullshit ones (even in respectable journals) from good ones under his tutelage, and am forever grateful to the vast array of science and tech I was exposed to while supporting the tech side of a &quot;every major sequencer&quot; sequencing lab.
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andrewzahover 4 years ago
This is something that I&#x27;ve been thinking about lately.<p>Last ~May, I spontaneously developed rashes exactly in the middle of the back of my hands at the same time. This lead to skin sensitivity and ultimately skin rashes across my body.<p>At this point I&#x27;ve visited my dermatologist what, 20 times? In addition to my general physician, bloodwork, etc. Biopsies and bloodwork and other tests don&#x27;t show anything abnormal, asides from excessively high IgE - 600 and now about 1,000. I recently started on Dupixent but it&#x27;s too early to tell if it&#x27;s helping or not.<p>There doesn&#x27;t seem to be any clear indicator, so I&#x27;m wondering if I ate something + stress, which affected my gut microbiome. My family has no history of this sort of issue and it seriously started about overnight.
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dragosmocriiover 4 years ago
It&#x27;s interesting to see more and more articles lately reporting a strong connection between ilnesses (or lack) and one&#x27;s microbiome health. What I noticed from my experience, is that kombucha and kimchi make me feel great if I consume these regularly (once or twice a week). Sometimes I will indulge in some crap food like pizzas and noodles, which make me feel unwell, but kombucha and kimchi work as a reset :)
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wwww4allover 4 years ago
Mouth and gut health are directly related to physical health AND mental health.<p>The gut is often called the second brain, and lots of mental health issues like anxiety, depression, stress, etc can be greatly helped by improving diet and healthy gut.<p>It’s criminal that medical establishments are controlled by pharmaceutical companies and establishment media spreads prescription drug propaganda.<p>Everyone needs to do their own research about gut health and direct impacts to physical and mental health.
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newobjover 4 years ago
Excited for more research in gut health.<p>I know HN hates to entertain any lay science, but I wonder if scraping my tongue, as I do with a copper scraper, is good or bad for your oral biome?
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tempestnover 4 years ago
It really seems like some decades in the future we&#x27;ll look back at the results of gut microbiome research as akin to the discoveries of bacteria and viruses. Before those discoveries it was known that people got sick, and that developing sickness was correlated with various things, like proximity to sick people, or poor hygiene, but the mechanisms behind those correlations weren&#x27;t known. (Or they were suspected, but with some misconceptions or lack of detail.)<p>I expect and certainly hope that as this system is better understood, it will unlock numerous significant advances in medical science. Would just be nice if that process could happen faster!
jonas_kgomoover 4 years ago
Besides the gut flora being capable of some neurological effects it has demonstrated to be psychoactive. Professor Robert Sapolsky[1] has an amazing course on Behavorial Evolution. The toxoplasmic gondii comes from the rat -&gt; cat -&gt; gut -&gt; brain, it is profound that side effects in the brain are chemically constructed from the stomach. Considering that most animals do not even have a brain,but usually have a stomach, it is evident that the gut is underestimated in the evolutionary tree.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Y0Oa4Lp5fLE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Y0Oa4Lp5fLE</a>
dekken_over 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;TtrWGF" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;outline.com&#x2F;TtrWGF</a>
happyconceptsover 4 years ago
Someone please enlighten me as to why in 2021 DOCTORS and DENTISTS are still completely separate in the healthcare system?<p>Danny I sincerely hope your team&#x27;s efforts will accelerate the bridging of this divide.
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echelonover 4 years ago
As a layman, this is so exciting! It feels as though we may be getting closer to finding a cause for a diverse set of neurodegenerative disorders. Alzheimer&#x27;s, Parkinson&#x27;s, etc.<p>Gut and oral microbiota having influence across the blood-brain barrier seems so plausible. If they get into the nervous system and migrate, they could cause inflammation in the brain leading to damage over time.<p>The immune system is incredible, and we&#x27;ll no doubt find it a fertile ground for progress against a lot of diseases.
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fpgaminerover 4 years ago
I can only wish these researchers good luck; we don&#x27;t even understand the gut&#x27;s microbial ecosystem as it relates to gut diseases.<p>I, unfortunately, have first hand experience here. The short version of my story is that I started out 2020 with an acid reflux diagnosis and ended 2020 laid out in bed 24&#x2F;7 eating nothing but rice and potatoes with doctors shrugging over a mystery GI issue.<p>They finally gave me a specially designed, brand name, and expensive as hell antibiotic that specifically targets the gut microbiota. The drug and its effect is the medical equivalent of the old IT adage: &quot;Have you tried turning it off and on again?&quot; The idea is to rain hell down upon your gut and hope it resets to a better balanced microbiota.<p>So yeah, that&#x27;s the current state of modern medicine when it comes to GI issues; bludgeon it to death and hope for the best. So God have mercy on this researcher attempting to identify links between the GI microbiota and other illnesses.<p>P.S. I was somewhat inclined to go into more details on my journey, cause finding information on GI issues is so hard, but it would be a stupidly long comment. Suffice it to say, I learned a lot about the gut, but mostly about what we don&#x27;t know. For all those people with IBS-*, SIBO, and NCGI out there, you have my deepest commiserations. Science can take the FODMAP diet and shove it up its poorly understood rectum.<p>EDIT: I think in my revisions of this comment I forgot an important bit: the treatment seems to have worked. My symptoms are continuing to improve after the round of antibiotics. So as crude as the science may be, at least it worked.
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JoeAltmaierover 4 years ago
It seems reasonable. It&#x27;s been said, even if we cloned a Mammoth, it would quickly die if we didn&#x27;t colonize its gut carefully. It had adapted to eating what was growing forty thousand years ago. It would need different flora to digest hay today. Even then, there might be no solution compatible with its intestinal biochemistry. We are all products of our environment.
perlgeekover 4 years ago
Several people I know have some seemingly disjoint food allergies, some of the attributed to lack of certain enzymes, some without any explanations.<p>I&#x27;m wondering if some of the effects could be mitigated with sufficiently smart microbiome engineering.
sizzleover 4 years ago
I&#x27;m on antibiotics for an infection right now, how badly have I disrupted my microbiome? How will this effect me down the line?
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bsanr2over 4 years ago
Adding to the anecdotes:<p>Around summer 2014, I began to focus very heavily on &quot;bulking&quot; for strength training. This was about a year after I&#x27;d developed very obvious symptoms of lactose intolerance and had had to cut uncultured dairy out of my diet. My meals were not diverse: fruit and Greek yogurt in the morning; chicken cooked in Indian sauces, roasted potatoes, and some green (usually broccoli or spinach) for lunch and dinner, along with protein shakes and a pre-workout carb load (such as PB+J). Drinks were water, orange juice, and kefir.<p>That winter, my health collapsed. I started developing skin abscesses, and the antibiotics I received for a particularly bad episode caused me to develop a C diff infection. I had to severely limit my food intake, as too much or certain kinds would cause me to develop cramps, listlessness, and diarrhea, and lost about 40 pounds in 3 months. My body could not hold onto food long enough to process it correctly and I developed symptoms of incomplete digestion, and especially of fat indigestion (symptoms improved with anti-diarrheals).<p>The next 3 years were a long battle to try to get back to normal. Store-bought probiotics didn&#x27;t help; digestive enzymes did. Things didn&#x27;t improve noticeably until after I began eating homemade sauerkraut, and especially after I began taking enzymes on an empty stomach (I was told that this might help to break down some structure that might harbor unhelpful bacteria).<p>Eventually, I was able to return to most foods without issue, until last year, when a prediabetes scare prompted to try a ketogenic diet (this also seemed to solve a lingering issue, of multiple daily and urgent movements).<p>All this to say... I don&#x27;t really know what&#x27;s going on. I&#x27;ve found some things that seem to work, but I could only guess at why, based on the timing of my downturns and upturns and of my interventions.<p>I&#x27;ve spent literal days over this period trying to understand why my body is acting and reacting the way that it does, and following the (often slapdash) advice of people who target the microbiome as the source of ill or good health has sadly seemed to be the most efficacious route. However, I&#x27;m still not able to achieve the level of well-being I&#x27;d like to, and I attribute that largely to the dearth of hard facts available relating to diet and the human microbiome. Over the course of this journey, I&#x27;ve seen more and more professionals begin to take the issue seriously, but not nearly the level or quality of research we&#x27;d hope to see with such a fundamental topic. Here&#x27;s to seeing that corrected before I have to punch whatever card this adulthood of gut trouble has been leading to.
inambercladover 4 years ago
Seems like a good plug for a startup I used to work for. I&#x27;m no longer associated with them aside from my personal friendships but they&#x27;re creating a pretty cool oral health product: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;freshhealth.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;freshhealth.com&#x2F;</a>
hmmokidkover 4 years ago
I say this all the time. There is a lot to say about this but anti-biotics aren&#x27;t a silver bullet. There is a drawback to them bigger than any of us have really imagined.<p>There are a whole slew of mysterious illnesses probably caused by imbalances in the gut.
satya71over 4 years ago
The evidence is weak to non-existent. I wish popular magazines would stop publishing these non-sense stories. At least they went with &quot;linked&quot; which is clearly saying correlation (which is not causation).
neonateover 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;qaOG1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;qaOG1</a>
bsergeover 4 years ago
Or many ills affect the body in more extensive ways than thought. Constipation could be an early warning sign of Parkinson&#x27;s and other problems, for example, not that you&#x27;d be able to tell.<p>I&#x27;m pretty &quot;natural&quot;, never had antibiotics and stuff. But I can tell you I&#x27;ve got plenty of problems that can <i>never</i> be fixed by gut bacteria.<p>Besides, modern lives are anything but natural.
vmceptionover 4 years ago
Interestingly, this is what holistic practitioners and naturopaths have been trying to say for a long time<p>They’ve just substituted the scientific method with no method at all and devoid of all peer review or capability of it<p>As technology improves I expect individualized and therefore holistic treatments to be at the forefront
dukeofdoomover 4 years ago
A while back I read that people with root canal are far more likely to get cancer. The reasoning being that the empty root canal provides a pathway for bacteria&#x2F;viruses to enter into the body. Causing chronic infections. Which leads to cancer.
andrebotelhoover 4 years ago
solid read
DNiedover 4 years ago
PAYWALLED
forgotmypw17over 4 years ago
A long time ago, our ancestors were single-celled.<p>Then, some cells decided to live together, form a slime, division of labor, organs, etc. And today, voila, we have humans.<p>However, the single-celled never went away. We have been living together, co-evolving together, all this time.<p>No human has ever lived without a microbiome. We have been in symbiosis all this time. The immune system picks off the baddies, while the goodies get to stick around, serving all sorts of useful functions. Not only that, but the goodies actually edge out the baddies, because they consume most of the resources available to microbes. Combined with help from immune system police, a balance is reached.<p>That&#x27;s the way it works until you introduce various ways to harm the microbiome. Preservatives in the food. Substances which indiscriminately kill bacteria on the skin and elsewhere. Antibiotics. Then the balance is thrown off, the baddies get to proliferate unchecked, the immune system can no longer cope with their scale.<p>I&#x27;ve stopped using any products which harm my microbiome. It&#x27;s not easy, and it&#x27;s not a one-day or one-month or one-year transition, but it&#x27;s paid off in ways I didn&#x27;t even imagine possible when I started out.<p>Edit: When I post about this stuff, I often get asked about specifics. For reasons of privacy, and several others, I would rather not get into them. Do your own research, find your own way. Don&#x27;t wait for everything to be handed to you on a plate. I&#x27;ve provided more than enough information in this comment.
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