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In defense of interesting writing on controversial topics

125 pointsby petullaover 4 years ago

11 comments

ohduranover 4 years ago
&gt; And critically by “highly recommend it to you” I do not mean “I agree with all the takes.” I think contemporary society is willing itself into a state of incredible stupidity by people wanting to evaluating the worthwhileness of reading something purely on the basis of whether or not it’s correct.<p>I think this is a very good point that I don&#x27;t see raised very often.
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throwaway894345over 4 years ago
This article was much better (more interesting, enlightening) than the NYT hack job. The whole “how can we tenuously paint this person as a racist?” thing the media (or rather “half a dozen outlets”) is doing is dull and creepy. Interestingly not long ago Yglesias was writing the disingenuous articles, so I’m really happy to see he’s turned a corner, and he deserves praise for doing so.
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motohagiographyover 4 years ago
The hit piece is dramatic, but does it matter? 10 years ago I used to read the weekend NYTimes as a ritual, now I don&#x27;t know anyone who bothers and would even be a bit suspicious of someone who did because their social and professional lives have become a game of musical chairs of denunciations.<p>I don&#x27;t think defending interesting writing on controversial topics needs a defense, it just needs privacy. His conclusion is sufficient. &quot;But something about the internet is making people into infantile conformists with no taste or appreciation for the life of the mind and frankly I’m sick of it.&quot;
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debo_over 4 years ago
&gt; Well-known books like Toby Ord’s “The Precipice” and Philip Tetlock’s “Superforecasting: The Art and Science of Prediction” are important parts of the rationalist firmament.<p>Aside: I was pretty into the roguelikes that descend from the Moria&#x2F;Angband line for the better part of a decade. I&#x27;d frequently get to know people in that community and, after some light googling, realise they were famous in some other field.<p>I learned about Toby Ord through a terrific game he wrote called Sil [0], which is a nearly-unrecognizable fork of NPPAngband that sticks tightly to the theme of the Silmarillion. It&#x27;s a very tight game, and it oozes atmosphere--especially neat considering there is no sound, and only an ASCII-character terminal-like display.<p>This was also how I first discovered Nick Bostrom and &quot;Superintelligence&quot;; Toby Ord was a postdoc of Bostrom&#x27;s at the time, and following the chain I stumbled into this work.<p>I guess roguelikes might appeal to rationalists in particular; there&#x27;s a lot to reason about in there, but sometimes random things happen and there&#x27;s just nothing you can do :)<p>[0] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amirrorclear.net&#x2F;flowers&#x2F;game&#x2F;sil&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amirrorclear.net&#x2F;flowers&#x2F;game&#x2F;sil&#x2F;index.html</a>
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jmullover 4 years ago
The article claims the nytimes story is like this:<p>&gt; Scott Alexander’s blog is popular with some influential Silicon Valley people. &gt; Scott Alexander has done posts that espouse views on race or gender that progressives disapprove of. &gt; THEREFORE, Silicon Valley is a hotbed of racism and sexism.<p>But this just isn&#x27;t accurate. The first sentence is right. The second is part of the profile (though not the entire point). And the stated conclusion is not in the article at all.<p>I hadn&#x27;t noticed &quot;rationalists&quot; of this particular type before today. I&#x27;m not impressed.<p>This part is pretty bad:<p>&gt; Metz is very interested to paint Alexander as racist, by writing for example that “in one post, he aligned himself with Charles Murray, who proposed a link between race and I.Q. in ‘The Bell Curve.’”<p>Metz doesn&#x27;t call Alexander a racist. The author feels Metz paints Alexander as a racist simply by raising an association with well known accused racist Charles Murray. Yet... if that inference is generally clear, then why did Alexander choose to make a point about UBI by associating himself with Charles Murray?<p>My guess is the author feels attacked by the nytimes (or maybe the &quot;tribe&quot; the nytimes belongs to) and is fighting back (Fighting a little dirty, too, since it seems to be portraying the story inaccurately.)
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Jun8over 4 years ago
Speaking of writing on controversial topics: here’s an entry to connection between rationality and polyamory mentioned but not discussed in this post <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;putanumonit.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;16&#x2F;polyamory-is-rational&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;putanumonit.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;10&#x2F;16&#x2F;polyamory-is-rational&#x2F;</a>
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analog31over 4 years ago
&gt;&gt;&gt; Compared to the mass public, the biggest difference between rationalists and everyday Americans is almost certainly that Americans are very religious.<p>Oddly enough, the people I&#x27;ve known from the past generation who were the most skillful and verbose rationalists were all educated at Catholic universities. I&#x27;m not sure they were all still religious by the time I met them. My uncle could demolish any idea or argument.
PragmaticPulpover 4 years ago
I have to wonder if the NYT piece had much traction at all outside of the few internet communities who knew it was coming. The piece is not great, but ironically that’s what propelled it to widespread popularity. With a single article, the NYT writer managed to steal the focus of an entire community and get his otherwise uninteresting article spread far and wide across the internet. More clicks for him.<p>That said, I do think there is plenty of room for criticism of internet rationalist communities. There are a lot of people riding the coattails of blogs like SSC to use rationalism as a tool to lend credibility to their flawed assumptions.<p>However, the audience for criticisms of rationalist communities is very small. Self-described rationalists seem interested on contrarian takes about everything but themselves.
throwaway4516over 4 years ago
Yglesias’s piece is much better than the Times’, and much better than other takes, but he’s still missing a few things.<p>1. Scott is worth reading.<p>2. Sometimes Scott tackles controversial topics and takes positions I disagree with, but we should not stop reading everything he writes because of that.<p>3. One controversial topic Scott sometimes writes about is race, and in particular race science, by which I mean the genetic correlations between race and traits like IQ.<p>4. Scott chose to write under a quasi-pseudonym, Scott Alexander, most of the time, precisely because he didn’t want his controversial takes to affect the rest of his life and community.<p>5. In building his blog, Scott appealed to and courted several different groups. The most important groups for the purpose of this discussion are Rationalists, neoreactionaries, so-called race realists, and tech people.<p>6. Some of the tech people he appealed to are prominent, and they would eventually support him both publicly and privately.<p>7. At the same time and independent of Scott, America has undergone a shift in its appraisal of both technology and race, and American society has become more polarized for reasons that are too complex to explore here.<p>8. Technology is seen as more important in American society, and many of its effects are now interpreted as potentially harmful. This has raised the profile of tech leaders in the public eye, and has made the media more critical of them. (They can be important, or they can be ignored by the critical press, but they cannot expect to be both.)<p>9. Race-baiting became common during the Trump years, even as critical race theory went more mainstream among liberals. 10. If Scott had simply written a blog that was popular among tech people, the mainstream media would have covered him with a puff piece.<p>11. Scott repeatedly convinced journalists not to profile him, however, because he did not want the increased attention. (Did he know where it would lead?)<p>12. If Scott had simply moderated a comment section where race realism was widespread, he would have been just another wing nut on the Internet, deserving no notice outside the SPLC. But Scott did both.<p>13. I personally believe Scott saw the contradictions and strategic flaws in his choices. He had built a blog that was both influential among famous people, widely read by “race realists”, and written under a quasi-pseudonym.<p>14. Which brings us to the media. They write stories about important and famous people, because their readers want to know about those people. Journalists don’t care about those important and famous people as people; they care about them as stories. As decision makers who may affect the rest of us.<p>15. The best stories are surprising, and when something is surprising, sometimes it is surprising because it has been kept hidden, because it is shameful.<p>16. Scott was hiding something. Not just his full name, but the extent to which his blog was enmeshed with neoreactionary movements and so-called race realism.<p>17. Scott is still hiding things; he is giving a distorted version of events. (And to re-iterate, I will continue to read his posts although I see him being disingenuous about these issues.) He says he has only spoken with Thiel once. Yes, but Scott worked at a startup funded by Thiel, Metamed. Scott is close with one of Thiel’s mentees, Balaji Srinivasan. Both Balaji and Thiel funded the startup of Curtis Yarvin&#x2F;Mencius Moldbug, even as Scott discussed Yarvin’s writings in depth on his popular blog.<p>18. Some of his prominent tech supporters were aware of Scott’s interest in race science and continued to support him publicly. Others were probably not aware.<p>19. That is the root cause that resulted in Scott receiving the coverage he did. It was not about Scott. It was not because of any personal animosity that the Times or its reporters bear towards him. It is because he managed to bring prominent tech people and race scientists together on one blog for years, and keep it hidden, until it blew up in his face, because it was, in fact, a big story.
fao_over 4 years ago
Interestingly enough, the blog author skips over the modern concept of Humanism as applied and mixed into Rationality.<p>I was pleasantly surprised by the actions of the newspaper, New Humanist -- it is a Rationalist publication but mixes in Intersectional analysis seamlessly to provide quality journalism without accidentally moving towards the &quot;Nazi&quot; or &quot;Racist&quot; side of the spectrum as many other supposedly &quot;Rationalist&quot; newspapers do, by acknowledging that at a certain point it is not appropriate or rational to implicitly support these ideologies through trying to obtain a <i>purely</i> &quot;Rationalist&quot; understanding of the world, and that one&#x27;s own rational understanding must be tempered by learning from the experienced of the systemically oppressed, otherwise you risk eliminating them from the &quot;equation&quot;, and your consideration.<p>It&#x27;s a very worthwhile newspaper to read, it is high quality and I cannot recommend it enough.<p>&gt; I’m happy someone is pursuing these questions, but I don’t find the contemplations of these extreme scenarios to be particularly enlightening.<p>Indeed.<p>As a final note, it is worth it to know that Scott Alexander only decided he disliked the article from the NYT, not when he found out they were going to &quot;out&quot; him, but when he realised it was going to have a critical lens! Highly amusing!
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spoonjimover 4 years ago
I can’t believe the anti-Semitism at the NYT is so unapologetic that they gladly doxxed a Jewish man in this climate of hate and violence. Blood is on their hands.