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Drivers locked out of their cars at Royston Tesco

73 pointsby LiamPaabout 4 years ago

19 comments

helsinkiandrewabout 4 years ago
Article from a few years ago about a neon sign switching-mode power supply that was causing interference on the 433MHz frequency (as well as others):<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arrl.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;view&#x2F;amateur-radio-sleuthing-pins-down-source-of-strange-rf-interference" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.arrl.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;view&#x2F;amateur-radio-sleuthing-pins-d...</a><p>And “an inventor” who&#x27;s make shift doorbell was causing problems on 355MHz:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackaday.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;15&#x2F;the-great-ohio-key-fob-mystery-or-honey-i-jammed-the-neighborhood&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hackaday.com&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;15&#x2F;the-great-ohio-key-fob-myste...</a><p>Trouble with these devices is they rely on all applications just transmitting data very briefly. If someone doesn&#x27;t it can block everything
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wallaBBBabout 4 years ago
I highly doubt it&#x27;s actually jamming the the 433MHz signal from the fob. Command signals are most likely properly decoded by the vehicle, but rather the RSSI measurements are getting disturbances. Those signals are LF (25kHz or 125kHz)sent from the vehicle (multiple antennas) to the fob for localization. Fob performs the measurements and returns values to the vehicle. If the fob is not localized in the expected area, passive unlock or start would not work, and could even start the alarm.<p>Some gate&#x2F;card readers going crazy maybe...<p>Wireless chargers that now come inbuilt as standard can also create enough disturbances to mess up the LF RSSI (but limited to single vehicle). Manufacturers are slowly moving to UWB and BLE for localization, as ToF is more robust (especially for relay attacks) than a simple signal strength measurement, plus it provides a common mechanism for both phones and fobs on the vehicle side.
pintxoabout 4 years ago
&gt; &quot;I thought it was some kind of alien phenomena.&quot;<p>Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.<p>For some (a lot?) of people, keyless entry seems still to be an advanced technology.
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lawrencedukabout 4 years ago
Last time this happened in the UK it was a push to call for assistance system that got stuck on, also at 433mhz. It’ll be the same here.
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LeonMabout 4 years ago
There is nothing &#x27;mysterious&#x27; about this, this is just how radios work. Neither does it have to be malicious.<p>Most car key fobs work in the 433MHz range, if there is something in the area transmitting at said frequency, it will cause the relatively weak signals from keys fobs to be blocked. This it why we have electromechanical compatibility (EMC) certification for any electrical devices being sold.<p>With the market being flood with cheap electronics from foreign manufacturers who do not care about getting certified, a single misbehaving weather station, &#x27;smart&#x27; door bell, or baby monitor can cause disruptions to other wireless devices.
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bsd44about 4 years ago
I once found out that that the reason why people parked next to my car can&#x27;t unlock their cars is because I had my rear parking sensor switched on. As soon as I switched them off, their car fobs would start working again. I had some custom Chinese-made rear parking sensor installed. So nothing &quot;mysterious&quot;, just radio frequency interference.
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ryankrage77about 4 years ago
What&#x27;s stopping people from physically inserting the key into the lock&#x2F;ignition?
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p0dabout 4 years ago
The ham radio folk, of which I am one, are probably down there with scanners now and could tell you the problem ;-)<p>Before I was a licensed ham I put together a little AM transmitter with a 9v battery connected to a portable cd player. I was shocked that I could pick up the signal several miles away (and yes I know hams, very bad behaviour, I was ignorant).<p>I&#x27;ll put my money on a new antenna having gone up nearby.
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cube00about 4 years ago
&gt; ask to speak to the on-duty manager to make them aware you are having difficulties getting into your vehicle as they are aware of the process to follow.<p>Wonder what the &quot;process&quot; to solve this is if they don&#x27;t even know the cause?
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londons_exploreabout 4 years ago
It&#x27;ll be someone using a &#x27;jam, listen, and replay&#x27; device to unlock and start keyless cars so they can drive them to a port and steal them.<p>Pretty much every week a car is stolen this way from my street. I now always take the engine management fuse out of the fusebox when parking my car so at least the car can&#x27;t start when a thief pulls this... They tried anyway though!
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barbegalabout 4 years ago
It&#x27;s odd that no one has analyzed the 433 MHz band to find out what is interfering with all these signals. It&#x27;s most likely to be a bit of misbehaving equipment permanently on a channel.
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gyzabout 4 years ago
I had an experience like this in a parking lot in Belarus: our van wouldn&#x27;t react to the keyfob. A man soon came by offering to help for some money, but some others warned us he was using some kind of jammer to make this happen on purpose.<p>In fact I think it wasn&#x27;t specifically made to be a jammer, he was just trolling with an accidentally-discovered device causing interference
Muximizeabout 4 years ago
Tesco seems to be using wireless price tags. Maybe their transmitter is sending a signal that is strong and continuous enough to cause this?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;electronics.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;86895&#x2F;how-electronic-price-tag-works" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;electronics.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;86895&#x2F;how-el...</a>
mrlonglongabout 4 years ago
There is a place in Doncaster where remote keys just don&#x27;t work! It is fortunate I still could unlock manually. Of course this was over a decade ago so it may not exist now.
pjc50about 4 years ago
I wondered if it might be linked to one of the nearby military bases (e.g. radar), but I misremembered where they are; RAF Alconbury is to the north of Cambridge instead.
ChrisMarshallNYabout 4 years ago
Does UK still have those vans that drive around, looking for unlicensed TVs?<p>If so, could one of those be repurposed? I suspect they have fairly wideband scanners.
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dkdbejwi383about 4 years ago
They must not have been from around there. It’s a local shop, for local people.
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TazeTSchnitzelabout 4 years ago
There&#x27;s several previous cases of RF interference causing this.
vidanayabout 4 years ago
Hey, I&#x27;ve been to this Tesco! (My company is a km or so away)