This seems like a great move forward for Element, looks like this is angling to replace the New Vector offering they had a while back?<p>The pricing is certainly odd, though. For 5 bucks a month I run my own server with almost a dozen folks on it, which requires basically zero maintenance (I can count the number of times I've had to go in and restart it over the past two years on one hand). Double that for a limit of 5 users (with another $2/user surcharge) is high for what I'd expect is a logical separation of tenants under the hood.<p>I know some of the Matrix folks pop in to HN threads from time to time, and I'll readily admit my woeful inexperience in all things business. That said, could someone enlighten me as to how the pricing strategy was determined? It seems like the better route would have been to create an obscenely cheap plan on the low end for groups/families and push for enterprise adoption (perhaps even with increased prices, $75/mo for 25 users seems on the low end at first glance).<p>Edit: Just re-read the first paragraph and caught this: "You can just enjoy the fact you know you chose someone you trust (us!) with your data." The whole reason I'm using element is because I <i>don't</i> trust anyone else with my data & social connections, and so I'd like to own as much of that scope as possible. I'm sure it's just a poorly worded marketing zinger, but it's unfortunate nonetheless.
"Dedicated server" mentioned 4 times in that article. In hosting world, dedicated server means real physical server. I wonder if that's just marketing speak and in reality it's virtual server or they really install a separate server for every customer.
For those interested in self-hosting the home server, I would recommend <a href="https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy</a> - the documentation is fantastic and it’s very well maintained.
This sounds cool for non-technical people, who don't have the skills to setup their own self hosted Synapse &/or Element server. Let's be real, for folks who don't frequent HN, that's just about <i>everyone</i>. Seems like a good option for them, and a good way for Matrix to generate income. Great news as far as I'm concerned!<p>Sounds like some are complaining about the price, but it seems more than fair to me. Heck, I host my own Synapse instance, but I might consider this in the future. Not that the maintenance is a problem, I don't think I've had to touch it since I set it up. But it might be worth it to not ever have to go in and do upgrades, or worry about something going wrong.
The day the element and jitsi projects marry and offer a single $10 plan for secure chat and group video all the commercial providers can pack up... But I fear the day may never come.
While I love Matrix and support their mission, this pricing is quite a bit steep, as well as the 5-person limit being too restricting. They will price out large majority of people who actually could/would want to switch.
Is that the only base domain? ems.host (I assume element matrix service?) is so uninspired and sounds like a back end domain rather than what you want your identity tied to. Could they not have gone with something a bit more catchy and on brand?
I got excited for a cheaper offering when I saw the headline. If I was wanting to pay $10/month that was already an option. Sadly this is just marketing and not anything more appealing.
Question for anyone in-the-know of Matrix:<p>I'm toying with using Matrix or IPFS (my two primary interests atm) as a .. P2P layer. Which is to say, i have an app that shuttles thousands of byte chunks between instances of this app, and i need something in that network layer to do the shuttling. I of course could just use a centralized SSH server, but Matrix and IPFS both have be interested as alternatives.<p>With that said, doing this in Matrix would involve sending quite a bit of volume through Matrix. double digit GiBs of data every month in 10KiB chunks.<p>Would using hosting Matrix be bad for this purpose? I could of course self host, but A: i'd like to support Matrix, and B: if this is kosher i'd rather give Matrix my money, than give a VPS my money.<p>Does Element Home limit message sizes or message counts? Does it throttle? Caps would be bad for me (potentially), but throttling would be fine. I just don't want to abuse Matrix, and i'd like to support them with money i'm spending in this use case.
The terms of service are interesting:<p>> This agreement does not apply to Matrix servers run by anyone else - Matrix is an open network like the Web and this agreement only applies to the server provisioned by the Customer and provided by Element.<p>What do other Matrix servers matter to my hypothetical Element Home server or my selfhosted matrix-synapse server?<p>>The Customer must ensure that all Authorised Users are at least 16 (sixteen) years old to use both our Hosting and Communication Services or such greater age required in their country to register for or use our Hosting and Communication Services.<p>So no using it with your younger family or school for example?<p>I appreciate a service being offered but would prefer a solution that enables an out of the box package for self hosted consumer NAS systems.
Maybe something to provide dyndns, a domain and a quick setup.
I find the chart presented to be very deceptive with regards to "Own your data" and Signal. It implies that the Signal servers store your messages and other data which they do not.
Does this include all the bridges? So the users of the instance can combine other platforms to the same app, such as signal, instagram, twitter, whatsapp, irc, telegram and all that?
Good stuff!
Now we just need to get the cost down. I got email hosting for free with my domain, that's the price point I would like for Matrix, too.
I believe they are asking twice as much as they should be. Hear me out.<p>At $1/month/user, they would make $12/user/year. I would say most people have extended ~10-20 family members they communicate with, at $20 -$40/month on the lowest priced plan, that would be a fair expenditure that would fall on one family member, because trying to get everyone to chip in if usually unrealistic. Now outside of the USA it begins to get really expensive.<p>If they could offer it at $1/month, they would have significantly greater uptake. As for the bandwidth and hosting costs, are they not paying for that anyway through the default Matrix server?<p>I get they want to make money from businesses, but they are pricing out a lot of families who have Facebook-fatige.
The only thing stopping me from moving away from the matrix.org homeserver is the fact that I already have an account and chats there.<p>Sure, I could rejoin all my rooms from a new account on a different homeserver. But that’s not exactly an elegant solution.<p>I’m looking forward to when account migration is a solved problem. That’s one of the more impressive and daunting parts of the Matrix spec that I’ve seen.
Back when WhatsApp's business model relied on subscriptions rather than ads, it sold for $1/year. What justifies this being 120x more expensive? Is it just economies of scale?
> memorable Matrix IDs such as @yourfirstname:yoursurname.ems.host<p>Nobody outside of tech will agree with that. Multiple kinds of punctuation, "ems", ".host", and so on.
not sure i understood from the article, is this supposed ot host a server locally on your device rather than use someone elses server?
(that would make it function almost like a peer to peer system.)<p>or is it just a way for them to market their own hosting for matrix servers?
> <i>You can just enjoy the fact you know you chose someone you trust (us!) with your data.</i><p>Isn't the point of decentralization that I don't have to choose some centralized party to trust?
This would be insane for anyone outside of HN. $10 a month for a 5 person chat? They know everyone can get this free elsewhere for decades now? A 5 person Signal group would even have higher security.
I have one large concern with this. It's not a FLOSS service, it's SSaaS. Let me explain.<p>While Matrix is open-source, Element Matrix hosting gives you no option to modify the source code, not letting you install add-ons or modifications. There's no way to say, "Hey, check out this cool chat patch, just install it on your homeserver!" With proprietary service, if you want a feature, all you can do is say, "Ugh, I wish they would add it." With a freedom-respecting service, you could just hire someone to add it.<p>Therefore, EMS is not a freedom-respecting service. It's as freedom-respecting as proprietary ElasticSearch.<p>The headline explains that it violates the most fundamental principle of free software:<p>- The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).<p>It does not even attempt to give you this freedom:<p>- The freedom to... change the program so it does your computing as you wish.<p>OSS that's not FLOSS doesn't have any of the ethical benefits: A locked-down Android phone is "open-source" but not free software, as you can't modify it.<p>There should be a way to be able to upload patches onto your server. If corruption ensues, Element Matrix Services should not be held responsible. Let users be responsible for their software! Stop treating them like babies.<p>It also generally makes it much harder for open-source contributors to experiment, as you must go through a centralized repo to gain adoption.