All: Indian politics has recently been overtaking even U.S. politics for flamewar and unsubstantive comments in HN threads. India is an important, amazing country. Developments there are of interest and on-topic for HN. But ideological, nationalistic, racial, and (god forbid) religious battle is definitely <i>not</i> on topic for HN.<p>Therefore, if you plan to comment in threads like this, make sure you're up to date on the site guidelines, that you have something thoughtful to say, and are coming from a place of curiosity. That's the core value of this site.<p>Extra tip: if you're hot under the collar, wait to cool down before posting. These issues are intense. It's easy and all too human to get activated, so we each need to do some internal processing before taking to the comments for discussion.<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html</a>
I'm surprised to see the battleground HackerNews turns into when any topic about India is mentioned. India is going through a huge cultural shift, and the erstwhile liberal establishment is slowly being pushed out of their power seats by the rising Hindutva group. India is so vasly multi-faceted, multilayered, and complex, it's hard for western commentators like HNers to comment on it meaningfully without the necessary support. Most people just appeal to western democratic authority and try to see it from the lens of Dems/Reps, but it's not so simple. Just like a person living in Orissa can't meaningfully comment on say Pro 22, we can't expect Oregonians to comment meaningfully on democracy report on India. On top of that there are IT Cells, ISPR/ISI LARPers, Khalistani groups, Indian media, NYT/Wapo hit jobs, angry nationalists etc that turn the discourse into a shrill shouting match.<p>One trend I'm noticing more and more is that India is taking a leaf out of China's books and paying less and less attention to the criticism western institutes. The next decade when India will rise in stature will make it more and more flippant about such issues. After all if any party (INC or BJP) that rules India, has enough clout and resources to enrich themselves and benefit from the rising fortunes of the country. Western commentators will be used as a classic "Us vs them" trope to further these claims.
Okay, the comments here are not something I'd have expected to see on HN. Kudos to dang for his attempts at keeping things in control.<p>Bringing the discussion more suited to HN, India has terrible ratings on Internet freedom: <a href="https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-net/2020" rel="nofollow">https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-net/2020</a><p>The country's administration blocks websites and cuts internet connections en masse, without warnings and legitimate reasons.<p>Also, its new content regulation and liability laws threaten the concepts of open internet: <a href="https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-intermediary-liability-and-digital-media-regulations-will-harm-the-open-internet/" rel="nofollow">https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-int...</a>
This article from PG from a very long time ago called "Keep your identity small" seems very relevant whenever issues like "capitol hill", "indian democracy", "muslim religion", "trump", etc are posted here for discussion.<p>You can't change other people's opinion about their nation, religion, politics, etc even if you believe you have all the facts and most of the time it just devolves into a flamewar (1)<p>(1) <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html</a>
<i>I have read and re-read the guidelines and I really hope I don't cross the boundaries while writing this comment.</i><p>This democracy report sounds like as if written by an Indian journalist Rana Ayyub. (<a href="https://twitter.com/ranaayyub" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/ranaayyub</a>) She writes columns in various western media outlets. Her whole career is built on the foundations of hating Modi. Various statements used in the article linked above, sounds eerily similar to what this lady writes time and again.<p>While I don't give full marks to Modi administration, I do not believe the premise set in the article (or the report) at all. For all unbiased HNers reading this and unfamiliar with India, the issue at hand is very complex. You have to understand, there are vested interests around the world who want to disgrace the current administration in India by hook or crook.<p>There are issues and problems on both the sides (Hindus and Muslims) but in case say in a murder, a Muslim is the victim, the machinery of the likes of Rana Ayyub have the power to flare it up on all possible International platforms giving spin to the story what suits their own narrative but things go unnoticed when a person from some other religion is a victim when Muslims kill someone. An example, Sometime back a Muslim politician abused a Hindu group; in return a Hindu leader abused Muslim God. A <i>fatwa</i> was issued and the Hindu leader (Kamlesh Tiwari) was murdered by Muslims within few years of uttering the words. His murder never became the hot topic in International media.<p>I can go on and on to negate every statement in the linked article with supporting proofs if people here really want to listen with eyes and ears open.<p>All I want to say this <i>There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.</i>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOGdxRnfK4" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOGdxRnfK4</a> Shekhar Gupta's analyses are generally good. The summary is at 25:30. Overall, rule of law is where India does poorly.<p>That aside, I am not fond of these "democracy reports" when they are driven by opinions of a handful of people, rather than data-driven.<p>As for rule of law, India's judicial backlogs are truly atrocious.
India has a deep corruption problem. There's a real incentive to make money off scams and the government is giving a blind eye. A guy infiltrated some of the scam companies, who where all in India, using their remote desktop software against them and got feeds of all the webcams and microphones in the building. Multiple reports to police and most companies still runnning to this day.
‘Neutralise Those Writing Against Us’: Inside The Govt’s Plan To Manage Media Perception<p><a href="https://www.medianama.com/2021/03/223-inside-govts-plan-to-manage-media-perception/" rel="nofollow">https://www.medianama.com/2021/03/223-inside-govts-plan-to-m...</a>
Please share any first hand experience if you have faced any internet blockade anytime in last few years. I am seriously skeptical of the news portals now a days.<p>The reason for my skepticism is that I have never faced internet censorship. I was in Delhi till last June.
This should be read with USCIRF Report, which recommends US Govt to designate India as 'country of particular concern' <a href="https://www.uscirf.gov/annual-reports?country=47" rel="nofollow">https://www.uscirf.gov/annual-reports?country=47</a>
Modi reminds me a lot of Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan famously said democracy is like a train in that you get off once you've arrived at your destination. I see similar impulses from Modi and the BJP. I can very easily see Modi talking about how mandirs and shikharas are barracks and helmets. India is headed down a dangerous path and his perversion of Hinduism will not end well.
<a href="https://mobile.twitter.com/sonaliranade" rel="nofollow">https://mobile.twitter.com/sonaliranade</a> depicts coherent/rational state of current affairs in India;
"In democracy it's your vote in elections that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes" --Jallberg <a href="https://archive.is/h3TBP" rel="nofollow">https://archive.is/h3TBP</a>
I agree with the report, but this part made me laugh.<p>> annual report on global political rights and liberties by Freedom House, a US government-funded NGO that studies political freedom around the world<p>> Beijing’s efforts “featured increased meddling in the domestic political discourse of foreign democracies, transnational extensions of rights abuses common in mainland China, and the demolition of Hong Kong’s liberties and legal autonomy”.<p>Is this not hypocrisy? Specially after what happened in the USA when Trump lost? How does Freedom House thinks China meddles in foreign democracies? Propaganda from NGOs is an open secret and almost every country uses it these days.
Probably not a popular opinion, but current Covid restrictions have limited personal freedoms in more meaningful ways than political changes in any country. You can live in a very liberal European country (ex. Netherlands or Denmark) and have fewer freedoms with regards to your ability to go outside where you need to go than 'a less democratic country' with lax covid policies. Feels really strange.<p>Also, it's a very western view to a country to be less or more democratic, depending on how authoritarian a current leader is. You can talk to an average person in India, Turkey or Hungary and very few will feel that they are now less free because, say, Orban or Modi is in charge (although they may totally dislike their leaders).
This "Think Tank", "Freedom House" is NOT impartial; their methodology is flawed, biased and highly subjective. I wouldn't take any of their reports seriously, particularly when it comes to a country like India whose "Diversity" on various societal axes are truly one of a kind. The situation on the ground is much more nuanced and reports like these only create more harm.<p>Some criticisms;<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism</a><p><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/11/07/why-do-we-trust-certain-democracy-ratings-new-research-explains-hidden-biases/" rel="nofollow">https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/11/0...</a><p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939022_Comparing_Freedom_House_Democracy_Scores_to_Alternative_Indices_and_Testing_for_Political_Bias_Are_US_Allies_Rated_as_More_Democratic_by_Freedom_House" rel="nofollow">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939022_Comparing...</a><p><a href="https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/freedom-house-turns-partisan" rel="nofollow">https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/freedom-...</a>
For recorded history, the subcontinent has been politically unified for -- at most -- 250 years. There are many different nations inside the "Republic of India." Some of these people are already seeking independence (<a href="https://referendum2020.org/" rel="nofollow">https://referendum2020.org/</a>) and more will join them. In retrospect, "India" will perhaps seem akin to the Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Ottoman empire: a cage of nations. One friend of mine in Kolkata has informed me that there is more and more consideration of the "Himalayan Reconfiguration" -- a peaceful liberation of the nations trapped inside of the "Republic of India."