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Europe Does Well in Innovation

56 pointsby hheikinhabout 4 years ago

13 comments

dependsontheqabout 4 years ago
It's complicated. There are some factors that make any such comparisons very difficult, the EU is a complicated political entity uniting nearly 30 different cultures. That is a stunning achievement. It's also not really one market, in many ways it is but to actually sell something in all member countries I need to adapt to at least 20 different markets. There are the new eastern european members who actually often have difficult political problems, there are old members like Italy with ridiculous political problems (it's not the EUs fault that founding a company or taking another company to court takes ages in Italy). It's also a rapidly aging continent, that makes a comparison to the US difficult. Sure some things are stupid, sure the EU is bureaucratic (but I always wonder how a common market with 30 countries can be done any other way), sure it's slow (how could it be any way else), but it represents more than 400 million people trying to build a shared future. And it's the only example of something like that in human history. Look how good the relationship with between the US and Mexico works, the way the US structures its relationship (guns, border walls) is mostly responsible for an insane drug war. Look how China structures it's relationship with it's neighbors. I think it's highly likely that most neighboring countries will join the EU step by step, ant the EU will adapt change, become more effective, less effective. But it's hard to compare such a unique human experiment with anything.
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maxrobotabout 4 years ago
The title on HN is a bit misleading since the Bloomberg link has the title 'South Korea Leads World in Innovation as U.S. Exits Top Ten'...
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RGammaabout 4 years ago
Ugh another one of these &quot;we take highly complex systems, a fuzzy property, some questionable proxies (number of patents lol) to measure it by and we compress it into a one-dimensional ranking&quot;<p>Oversimplification at best, make-believe at worst, especially since there are economists involved who in my book aren&#x27;t exactly known for methodological rigor.<p>You know, there might be some truth in this in say that that the top third is on average more innovative than the bottom third or something like that, but without in-depth justification you just can&#x27;t know, so this is simply economist fantasy?
dragoneliteabout 4 years ago
Im a bit skeptical about rankings by western nations, given the last year. That most prepared for a pandemic ranking picture has pretty much become a meme right now.
orange_teeabout 4 years ago
Maybe the disconnect here is that they are talking about &quot;innovation&quot; but not necessarily profitable innovation.<p>There&#x27;s also something to be said about the kind of innovation that disrupts a whole market, and the kind of innovation that incrementally improves on some process or tool. Maybe another question would be, is there enough of the latter kind of innovation to make up (economically) for the lack of unicorns?
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Lioabout 4 years ago
Does anyone have an actual free link to the list?<p>I was surprised not to see it in an article referring to it. Is the article just an advert for Bloomberg’s subscription services?<p>Also auto-playing video is a bit obnoxious.
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PestoDiRucolaabout 4 years ago
Does it really matter for as long as the US has the economical power to import talent (and purchase innovation) as needed not only from Europe but the whole world?
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Dma54rhsabout 4 years ago
Unfortunately I can&#x27;t see that index because of paywall. Unfortunately my personal experience here is while I do see innovation here, when it comes to making the money all the companies run to America where the capital is or at best Germany where manufacturing is.
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knownabout 4 years ago
mRNA vaccines were rolled out by USA and Germany :)
thu2111about 4 years ago
This analysis is abysmal, the sort of quality I&#x27;d expect from the Guardian, and I&#x27;m not even American. It&#x27;s mostly useful as a case study of how openly ideological Bloomberg has become. I can read it as I apparently have some sort of free article quota, so here are the lowlights.<p>Firstly, the USA is not even in the top 10. Really? Any function that purports to rank countries and not peoples will inevitably place the most populated countries near the top. If that doesn&#x27;t happen it means they&#x27;re really trying to rank Americans vs the Swiss vs the Chinese vs the Koreans, but presumably that would sound racist, so they don&#x27;t admit that. Moreover this doesn&#x27;t seem to pass a basic reality check: if someone comes up with a ranking function for countries in innovation and the USA isn&#x27;t even in the top 10 then my first reaction is &quot;your criteria are probably buggy, please double check that&quot;. We&#x27;re talking about the country of rockets that land themselves, cutting edge AI research, self driving cars. They conclude none of this counts because they are redefining the word innovation. Their new definition is unclear and the article switches between multiple very different meanings throughout.<p><i>“Innovation is often measured by new ideas, new products and new services,” she said, but it’s their “diffusion and adoption” that is the real metric of success.</i><p>Defining innovation in the way people would expect would seem to be a basic requirement for any sort of rigorous analysis. In this paragraph it means commercial success. Most would agree that you can be innovative without being successful, in fact &quot;the better tech doesn&#x27;t always win&quot; is folk wisdom by now. Their re-definition doesn&#x27;t stop there:<p><i>“We should recognize that the available metrics miss important dimensions of innovation,” said Romer, a professor at New York University’s Stern School of Business. “Officials in Wuhan showed for the first time that in a couple of weeks, it is feasible to test 10 million residents of a city for coronavirus. This was a very important public health innovation.”</i><p>Welding people in their houses and forcing them to undergo medical testing is not &quot;innovation&quot; by any kind of definition a normal person would use. Anyone could come up with that idea. All it proves is that the Wuhan government - assuming their reports can be trusted - is willing to do whatever it takes to enforce its policies at high speed. This is an especially poor example of innovation because doctors are trained to <i>not</i> do blanket mass testing of entire populations due to the problem of false positives, and China had no innovation solution to that: they just ignored it.<p><i>Korea’s return to the top spot is mainly due to an increase in patent activity, where it ranks top</i><p>If patent activity were a good proxy for innovation then IBM would be the world&#x27;s top tech firm. Anyone who has done R&amp;D knows the patent system is awash with garbage patents.<p><i>As the two biggest economies, the U.S. and China account for much of the world’s innovation</i><p>Here they switch their definition of innovation again, and the article is by now internally inconsistent: US and China account for &quot;much&quot; of the world&#x27;s innovation yet neither are in the top 10 most innovative countries. By the end of the article it&#x27;s become openly politically biased:<p><i>The country scores badly in higher education, even though U.S. universities are world-famous. That underperformance was likely made worse by obstacles to foreign students, who are usually prominent in science and technology classes -- first due to the Trump administration’s visa policies, and later to the pandemic. New President Joe Biden ran on a promise to reinvigorate U.S. manufacturing with a $300 billion investment in R&amp;D and breakthrough technologies, a policy he labeled Innovate in America.</i><p>Innovation is now about how many foreign students you take in, the US being downranked is all Trump&#x27;s fault, then innovation becomes about how much manufacturing you do and Biden is going to fix it with state control of the economy.<p><i>Sung Won Sohn, an economist at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, says the U.S. is still in the vanguard –- but nowadays its innovations tend to come from smaller companies, and take longer to reach the consumer. “There are a lot of new ideas from many start-ups,” he said. “It will take time for the ideas to be translated into marketable products.”</i><p>Back to commercial success again. Anyone familiar with the history of the world&#x27;s biggest tech firms will see a common recurring pattern:<p>• They are mostly founded by Americans. The most famous immigrant tech founders are Sergey Brin (but he did it with American Larry Page, and immigrated as a child), and Elon Musk.<p>• They very frequently drop out of university to found their business.<p>It&#x27;s very hard to read all those stories and reach a conclusion that university education for immigrants is the key to innovation success in the world, given how many tech firms are created by Americans who abandoned their education before finishing it.
jjjeii3about 4 years ago
Number of patents registered in the EU 2019: 180.000<p>Number of patents registered in US 2019: 669.000
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EdwinLarkinabout 4 years ago
Europe does well to keep talents in relative poverty compared to our peers in the US.<p>Most IT people are in the 50-60k&#x2F;pa bracket.Some are in 80k and anything &gt; 100k&#x2F;pa is an exception. And this is usually with progressive taxation starting with 30% and going upwards.<p>Most of the good housing costs &gt; 400k and we are talking small apartments because it&#x27;s Europe and if you live in the suburbs you give up all the great infrastructure.<p>Moving around in Europe is a nightmare especially if your spouse is in a field that requires intermediate&#x2F;native level of the local language.
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jjjeii3about 4 years ago
Don&#x27;t trust anything Bloomberg says. They have zero credibility. For example, they stated many times that all major companies like Google, Amazon and Apple have hardware from SuperMicro Inc., that contains hidden microchips and can spy on the companies by sending data to China... It was proven later that this was fake news.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Supermicro#Allegations_of_compromised_hardware" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Supermicro#Allegations_of_comp...</a>
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