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Two UK Broadband ISPs Trial New Internet Snooping System

455 pointsby offby37yearsabout 4 years ago

29 comments

peterkellyabout 4 years ago
Has everyone forgotten about Tempora [1], XKEYSCORE [2], PRISM, [3] and the other Snowden revelations [4]? This kind of shit has been going on for at least a decade in various forms.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tempora" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tempora</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;XKeyscore" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;XKeyscore</a><p>[3] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;PRISM_(surveillance_program)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;PRISM_(surveillance_program)</a><p>[4] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013%E2%80%93present)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Global_surveillance_disclosure...</a>
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eeccabout 4 years ago
What I don’t get is this: our governments - “ours” being the group of parliamentary democracies - routinely diss authoritarian ones such as China - and rightfully so - for their violations against human rights, among which that to habeas corpus, privacy, and reasonable suspicion.<p>To the point that we agonized over and sabotaged contact tracing apps, which could have helped a lot in fighting COVID, over claims to privacy and government control.<p>Now this shit. Fuck it.<p>You either are or you’re not. So if my privacy is to be made sausages, chopped and sold at the market for FB, ad-tech and spooks, then give me at least some upside! As it is, we’re just bovines with ear tags...
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cm2187about 4 years ago
Is a datacentre considered an ISP in this respect? Between vpns and just remote desktoping into a VM, it seems trivial to circumvent to real criminals while being a privacy nightmare to the rest of the population. There is a probability 1.000 that this data will be abused.
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smashahabout 4 years ago
10 years from now cyberterrorism companies with government clearance will be selling machine learning models trained on these logs of previous criminals. Sad.
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Havocabout 4 years ago
&gt;The IPAct effectively prohibits ISPs from talking about much of this<p>How very democratic and transparent of them<p>Kinda in two minds about this...tempted to implement a VPN to a VPS but not super keen on killing my gbps speeds.
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collsniabout 4 years ago
So essentially they&#x27;re collecting net flow data on every citizen. It may be kind of fun to overload their storage by creating a ton of short connections, probably wouldn&#x27;t be feasible.
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jl6about 4 years ago
This seems simultaneously too intrusive, and yet not intrusive enough to actually benefit law enforcement. They are logging source and destination IPs. But to what end? What can that possibly prove? Surely the vast majority of crime occurs at the application level.
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typenilabout 4 years ago
Yes. The more control centralized authority has the more they can control hate speech. Please babysit us apathetic cynical regulatory capture mechanisms - I mean politicians.
_jstreetabout 4 years ago
Could I submit freedom of information request to my ISP and be provided with all the details they store about my internet browsing? Unfortunately BT are a private company so sounds unlikely..
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asix66about 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210311232132&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ispreview.co.uk&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;2021&#x2F;03&#x2F;two-uk-broadband-isps-trial-new-internet-snooping-system.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20210311232132&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ispre...</a><p>Because the real link has too many redirects behind my pihole. ;-)
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Nailgunabout 4 years ago
Is there anything I can do about this as a citizen to protect my privacy?
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londons_exploreabout 4 years ago
I would like to see this data collected <i>and published</i>.<p>Data you send out over the internet unencrypted doesn&#x27;t have an expectation of privacy. Yet lots of people assume stuff like this is private.<p>The only way to close the gap is to publish the data so everyone can see exactly what they and others are inadvertently telling the world.
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oji0hubabout 4 years ago
The UK is getting less and less attractive all the time...
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bennysonethingabout 4 years ago
I thought under previous government all isps keep logs of all internet history for two years?
londons_exploreabout 4 years ago
Now is time to remind people the benefits of having a free and open WiFi network...
pacifikaabout 4 years ago
Another step closer for a families web history to affect their life insurance policies. How long until this information is repackaged and sold on?
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swileyabout 4 years ago
Don&#x27;t like the environmental impact of monero and TOR? Stop making them something everyone needs.
LatteLazyabout 4 years ago
Aren&#x27;t uk ISPs already required to keep logs of everything that happens on a connection? How is this different to that? I&#x27;m not trying to be snarky, I&#x27;m just confused what is being added when they already (I thought) collected everything on everyone...
dfgdghdfabout 4 years ago
What can an individual do to protect against this (excluding going off-grid)?
he0001about 4 years ago
How would things like Tor work against these things?
CaptArmchairabout 4 years ago
As recently as october 2020, the Court of Justice of the European Union ruled that data retention laws in the UK, Belgium and France are illegal as they aren&#x27;t in accordance with EU directives:<p>&gt; Today 6 October 2020, the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) delivered its verdict on four data retention cases in France, Belgium and the UK, in the context of these countries surveillance programmes. The European Court of Justice ruled that the surveillance laws of France, Belgium, and the United Kingdom fail to safeguard fundamental rights and freedoms. The CJEU rules that general and indiscriminate data retention is allowed under EU law when the State faces a “serious threat to national security” that is present or foreseeable, but only under the scrutiny of courts or independent administrative bodies and when this is done only temporarily. Finally, the CJEU specifies that national courts cannot use information obtained from bulk retention regimes against suspects in criminal proceedings.<p>&gt; “Today’s judgement is a massive blow to existing laws in France, UK and Belgium and to other current data retention practices by Member States”, said Diego Naranjo, Head of Policy at European Digital Rights (EDRi). “With this judgement, the CJEU essentially rules that, States can only engage in general and indiscriminate data retention when they face a “serious threat to national security” that is present or foreseeable, when subject to a court or administrative body review. The CJEU has put a stop to current illegal practices and disregards practices that are not under a national court’s scrutiny in the name of national security or in the fight against “terrorism””, he added.<p>&gt; Data retention practices entail the storage of traffic and location data (metadata) by telecommunications companies for an extended period of time in order to ensure the availability of such data for law enforcement purposes. As electronic communications technologies are increasingly used in the course of criminal activity, electronic communications data can play an important role in criminal investigations. Mandating the bulk retention of this data, however, poses serious risks to the right to privacy and communications freedoms.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;edri.org&#x2F;our-work&#x2F;press-release-the-data-retention-regimes-of-france-united-kingdom-and-belgium-are-illegal-says-cjeu&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;edri.org&#x2F;our-work&#x2F;press-release-the-data-retention-r...</a><p>This was October 2020. The CJEU still held jurisdiction over the U.K court during the transition period after brexit (31 jan 2020 - 1 jan 2021) per the withdrawal agreement.<p>&gt; The Court of Justice of the European Union continues to have jurisdiction over the United Kingdom during the transition period. This also applies to the interpretation and implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ec.europa.eu&#x2F;commission&#x2F;presscorner&#x2F;detail&#x2F;en&#x2F;qanda_20_104" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ec.europa.eu&#x2F;commission&#x2F;presscorner&#x2F;detail&#x2F;en&#x2F;qanda_...</a><p>The U.K. is free to do whatever with little to no recourse for U.K. citizens beyond appeal to their own Supreme Court to challenge the constitutionality of data retention &#x2F; surveillance laws.<p>That said, the EU is not without it&#x27;s own particular faults and shortcomings, but there are times when it does pay off to be able to challenge national legislation and policy making when it threatens human rights and freedoms such as they are purported to be upheld on the West-European continent.<p>As far as &quot;governments&quot; go, across the EU, the separation of powers is a thing. If data retention laws are enacted, that&#x27;s a reflection of the prevailing winds &#x2F; power balances between the legislative, executive and judicial bodies.
ClumsyPilotabout 4 years ago
The level of spying instituted by &#x27;free countries&#x27; would make Stalin roll in his grave.
afturkrullabout 4 years ago
Old news, ISPs have been using Deep Packet Inspection (DPI) for ages. Purely in the interests of &quot;prioritise latency&quot; for video or voice that &quot;don&#x27;t tolerate dropped packets&quot; ;]
ketamine__about 4 years ago
Would constantly opening and closing connections use an insane amount of storage?
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knownabout 4 years ago
“If you want total security, go to prison. There you’re fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking is freedom” --Eisenhower (b. 1890)
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linuxlizardabout 4 years ago
Why didn&#x27;t they just do what the US Gov did? Snoop but not tell anyone. Certainly would have saved them some grief. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(2001%E2%80%932007)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;NSA_warrantless_surveillance_(...</a>
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thinkaboutitsabout 4 years ago
Tell the right you are looking for Islamic terrorists. Tell the left you are looking for white supremacists.<p>Like shooting fish in a barrel; total surveillance state achieved.
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marshmallow_12about 4 years ago
i&#x27;m not as concerned as i might be. My rather meager understanding, which may be entirely baseless, is, that unlike the NSA which is obsessive about collecting every single scrap of data (and many large chunks), the UK intelligence services are rather more discerning. Again, i would be happy for someone to correct me, that&#x27;s just the general impression i get.
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chiefalchemistabout 4 years ago
Snooping? Now doesn&#x27;t that reek of newspeak? If anyone of us did that to someone else it would (at very the least) be stalking.<p>When you track and log everything - for up to a year - that&#x27;s not snooping.<p>That&#x27;s surveillance.<p>Using candy-coated language for such things is as (almost as) harmful as the acts themselves.
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