Please don't submit multiple stories about pretty much the same thing within hours: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26689526" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26689526</a>
Since I joined this website almost 1 and 1/2 decades ago, I have never seen science so politicized. In 2021, if you ask a perfectly reasonable scientific question, there's a good chance that it's somehow gotten associated with political party X or political party Y, and this question is treated with the same semantics as an armband, a bumper sticker, or a flag. This is madness!<p>This is not how it's supposed to work, if we are supposed to be reasoning, thinking beings. Ideas are supposed to be <i>ideas</i> not tokens of affiliation!<p>I brought up Lysenkoism here a few years back. One notable reaction, upon hearing of this for the first time, was for that commenter to declare that "Lysenkoism" was then to be pattern matched as a talking point of political party W. No intellectual curiosity. No discussion on the philosophical or practical implications. Just knee-jerk us versus them.<p><pre><code> I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
</code></pre>
In 2021, we're taught to fear each other. We're taught to fear the "wrong" questions. We're taught to fear the "wrong" affiliation, the "wrong" ideas. Fear is the mind-killer. That is what certain manipulators want -- for people to react, instead of listening and then truly thinking.
It's just disappointing. I know the likelihood is seriously low, but I hope some sort of fix or preventative measure can be found, because the AZ vaccine has become such a major part of the world's vaccination drive (especially when the worlds' largest vaccine manufacturer is currently (to my belief) only manufacturing AZ). And the last thing anybody wants is vaccination falling back any further.
> He stresses, however, that clear, transparent communication about possible risks is crucial for maintaining public trust in all COVID-19 vaccines. “It is very important that we do not lose the war because we are too eager to win the short-term battle,” he says.<p>This guy gets it. You won’t win over sceptics by trying to brush seemingly real problems under the rug.<p>Hopefully the EMA will follow his example.
The question to me is: how much is the risk of the potential side effects of the AZ vaccine compared to the risks associated with COVID?<p>To me it strikes me that, even considering these rare side effects, the odds are still very much in favor for getting vaccinated.<p>Am I wrong here? If not, wouldn’t it then be irrational to be shutting down these vaccination programs?
I've had the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine and had no side-effects at all. I did actually expect to, since I used to always react badly as a child to the flu vaccine we had at school.<p>Also, I've heard of friends and colleagues who felt pretty rough for a couple of days.<p>But one thing I don't hear enough of, is the comparison with all the long lists of <i>potential</i> side-effects stated on normal, over-the-counter medicines. Paracetamol, Aspirin etc.<p>Have you listened to the fast-talking voices at the end of medicine adverts, disclaiming a litany of possible side-effects? It's quite amazing. (Some disclaimers at the end of pharmaceutical ads on US TV particularly, have always shocked me.)<p>"Take this. It'll help your problem" (* warning: may cause ... )
We're still in a very early part of this developing story, and it's hard to predict yet how things will turn out. Here are some of the main points:<p>- The recent development that might have spurred this sciencemag article is a proposed mechanism for the AZ vaccine to be causing blood clotting in some individuals. This was previously covered a couple of weeks ago. [1]<p>- The number of people who have suffered serious effects as a result of the AZ vaccine are still much lower than the number of people who could have suffered serious Covid symptoms in the same population. [1]<p>- However, the demographics don't line up perfectly. The blood clotting seems to be a greater risk for younger individuals, whereas serious Covid symptoms are more of a problem for older individuals, on average.<p>- It's entirely reasonable for people who are at low risk of Covid symptoms to have concerns at this point about taking the AZ vaccine.<p>- However, governments are facing the broader issue of stopping the pandemic as quickly as possible and reducing vaccine hesitancy, especially with the vast amounts of misinformation that have been washing through social media. For that reason, while research continues on this potential clotting issue, most governments have resumed AZ vaccinations [2].<p>- This is arguably not the most intersting AstraZeneca-related thing happening right now. They have also botched several other aspects of their vaccine development and roll-out [3] [4].<p>- Clotting issues have not been observed in the mRNA vaccines. Those vaccines use a different mechanism to trigger an immune response, and so far <i>all</i> of the indicators for these vaccines have been overwhelmingly positive. Almost one-third of Americans have received at least one dose of a vaccine so far and there are good reasons to be optimistic that the pandemic will soon start coming to an end for some of us.<p>- Vaccinating the rest of the world is still a large and very important problem. If we don't do that, then vaccine-resistant variants may develop in other countries. From that standpoint, the AZ vaccine, despite its flaws, is still better than no vaccine at all.<p>[1]: <a href="https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/03/21/979781065/european-scientists-zero-in-on-astrazeneca-blood-clot-link" rel="nofollow">https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...</a><p>[2] <a href="https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/european-countries-resume-use-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-hoping-pause-has-not-dented" rel="nofollow">https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/03/european-countries-r...</a><p>[3]: <a href="https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1374349620533411840?lang=en" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1374349620533411840?lang=e...</a><p>[4]: <a href="https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2BR00Q" rel="nofollow">https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2BR00Q</a>
I would like to see:<p>* Estimates of death or serious complications of COVID, divided by age group.<p>* Estimates of death or serious complications of this vaccine, again by age group.<p>Then it should be easy for anyone to see that the benefits outweigh the risks (if they do!)
the title is clickbait. yes, there are side effects but there are a few orders of magnitude greater chances of the combo getting covid + dying than being affected by the vaccine and dying.<p>i am not saying we should not talk about them, but should we exercise caution with the way we formulate it. there are a lot of antivaxers out there and they don’t read beyond the title. if their number increases it will be bad for the entire society.
> “We do not have just one vaccine. We have several.”<p>I thought their problem was they <i>didn't</i> have access to vaccines over in Europe, not that they had a large stock to pick and choose from.
All the mRNA vaccines being deployed in the U.S. appear to also have an increased risk:<p><a href="https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D8/D137F981" rel="nofollow">https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/saved/D8/D137F981</a><p>I think it would be better to be honest about the risks, rather than hide them. Sure, less people may take the vaccine, but covid19 is an easily transmissible airborne illness (per the cdc and who). Given that, herd immunity is unlikely to be achieved and regular vaccines would be suggested (like the flu). Of course, that means we need to trust the vaccines... lying about risks isn’t a good start.