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Goodbye Basecamp, This Is The End

251 pointsby railsjedialmost 14 years ago

24 comments

spolskyalmost 14 years ago
The 37signals ethos of having an opinion and saying no a lot creates wonderful experiences and products for users who are new to a certain field. For someone who is new to project management, for example, the fancy programs with every feature and option are confusing and scary. Products like Basecamp are beautiful for these users.<p>As users gain more experience, their needs become slightly more complex. They start to understand the simple product completely, and then they have the cognitive ability to understand more fancy bells 'n' whistles. For users who have been doing project management for a long time with any software product, they will have a long list of things that they know -- from experience! -- that they need.<p>That is why there's a market for simple and there's a market for full-featured. Both are discrete markets, usually. Obviously every software designer strives for "power made easy" -- it seems easy at first, but there is power under the hood when you need it.
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ianterrellalmost 14 years ago
I think Jason Fried and DHH might take issue with, "You proved yourself wrong, I think."<p>In addition to "Say no by default," one of their other points of advice has been: "Let your users outgrow you."<p>37signals has found that there's more people to sell to at the bottom, and when customers need/want more, they're free to find it elsewhere.
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atacrawlalmost 14 years ago
I was expecting the author to say something to the effect of "37signals added too many new features and now the software is confusing." So I was a little surprised to read on and learn that, no, 37signals kept their software somewhat basic, just as they said they would.<p>I have a feeling the author will write a similar piece in a year or two after using Podio -- no software is perfect.
imbriacoalmost 14 years ago
For those who say that 37signals has allowed Basecamp to stagnate, I'd trot out as exhibit A the changelog: <a href="http://basecamphq.com/changes" rel="nofollow">http://basecamphq.com/changes</a><p>Being very deliberate about making sweeping changes to an application with an extremely large number of very satisfied users is not the same as allowing it to stagnate. Having spent 4 years of my life working at 37signals I know first hand the incredible amount of energy that is devoted to it by an extremely talented team.<p>That said, it's certainly not for everyone. And if you outgrow it, fantastic, feel free to move onto a new product that suits you better. We do this with many other aspects of our lives, why should software be any different?
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richardwalmost 14 years ago
This is a story of success, not failure. He used BC and loved it for almost 6 years. I'd be very impressed if the next product Christian uses fulfills all his project management needs for the next 6.
nhangenalmost 14 years ago
Just left Basecamp for Apollo for a few reasons:<p>1. Apollo has great customer service, and listens. 2. Apollo's interface doesn't look like Windows NT 3. Apollo is moving forward, while Basecamp seems to have stagnated/rested on its laurels.<p>I think Basecamp is a good product, but it's not that good.
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tokenadultalmost 14 years ago
I'd really like to hear from hackers organizing their projects what software in this category they like best. I have liked Basecamp as a framework for sharing do-list items with colleagues (most of my colleagues and I work independently of face-to-face meetings most of the time) but I am willing to learn about other products or service. Efficency is key. What do you recommend to do best what Basecamp does?
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kenjacksonalmost 14 years ago
Refering to a Robert Scoble post while accusing DHH of being on insider bubble is really hilarious. There is no one more in the bubble than Scoble, and no one who is more blinded by the fact that he's in the bubble than Scoble.<p>DHH was fundamentally right, even if the details were wrong. For 99.9% of apps there is a replacement app available on any of the mainstream phone platforms. The long tail maybe gets you a bit more polish, but its polish on non-core scenarios. Most people will decide based on the polish for their core scenario, not on Textalyzer.
trustfundbabyalmost 14 years ago
I'm just glad somebody said something about their prices ... they're ridiculous now.
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rlobuealmost 14 years ago
I just finished reading ReWork, Jason Fried's latest book. The irony of this submission is that the book describes Christian to a tee: the customer who always wants more; the customer who has outgrown the product; the customer who compares competitors but would rather complain than move.<p>I have to admire the way 37signals has grown over the last few years. Sure, they clearly don't integrate every feature. The user interface certainly works but has no iGloss about it at all. Pricing is steep and they hide the lower-priced plans. But it works: people still use the service.<p>If you're a coffee shop you concentrate on your coffee. If you're an electrician, you concentrate on the quality of your work. Adding extras like "nice cable ties" are irrelevant. 37signals are concentrating on their core functionality. When the day comes that the majority of their users require X feature and that feature becomes a norm in Project Management, Contact Management, Collaboration, etc then I'm almost sure they will react: why wouldn't they?
dnugentalmost 14 years ago
Basecamp is a good product but only if you share its "opinion" on workflow and design. Obviously 37Signals has done well by sticking to a minimal set of features and catering to a very specific audience.<p>We are of the mindset that software should fit the way you work, not necessarily the other way around. We're building a Force.com-like platform that allows you to create custom business workflow apps in minutes to handle not just tasks, but also lightweight crm, recruiting, and other business functions involving a relatively defined process. We provide a fast UI to access these records, so all you do is specify the schema and callbacks.<p>We're still in beta, but happy to release some invites and work with members of the HN community -- <a href="http://www.devcomb.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.devcomb.com</a>
becomevocalalmost 14 years ago
The fact that a user goes out of the way to broadcast that they're walking away from the service is a testament to how bad ass it truly was for them. Every developer should hope for that sort of torment at the end of use period for a user. Clearly it was a big enough part of their workflow to complain.<p>Most (all?) of us developers / product guys fight with feature creep. I'm glad 37signals is there to remind us, by example, that it's OK for a software business to focus on a specific solution, sans bloat. There are users that will appreciate your vision - and gladly pay.
dmazinalmost 14 years ago
I don't think you've listened enough, because 37signals has stated repeatedly that it prefers customers to outgrow the services (as is your case) than to intimidate new customers.
bborudalmost 14 years ago
I was introduced to Basecamp through a project I was invited to contribute to. Before I had heard about the product, but I had never used it and as far as I can tell I wasn't significantly biased for or against the product or the company that made it.<p>However, within days I came to hate Basecamp intensely. Not so much because it imposed certain structures and ways of working -- discomfort is to be expected when you learn a new tool. And, of course, sometimes, it turns out you can learn better ways to work from tools that force you into certain ways.<p>No, what made me hate Basecamp with a passion is that the thing is <i>slow</i>. It is <i>unacceptably slow</i>. And the UI, be it the web UI or the various apps that existed for it at the time (late last year), did not manage to meaningfully mask the fact that the system was slow as molasses.<p>The fact that 37signals, a much lauded company, would allow an important product to have such a glaring fault now means that I see anything that 37signals say or anything that is said about them in a different light. I am now thoroughly biased to think that they have no business telling anyone how you make good software. I can't help this, though I will acknowledge that this is an emotional response rather than a rational one.<p>It also means that anyone singing the praise of 37signals now also seems suspect. Do they even form their _own_ opinions or do people just parrot the praise that people they look up to heap on the company.<p>Slow apps are not cool. Companies that make slow apps without visible embarrassment are not cool. Basecamp is dead slow and it is perfectly okay to point out that the monarch appears before the court sans clothing.
petercooperalmost 14 years ago
<i>You didn’t integrate the Writeboard into Basecamp.</i><p>Worse, it hasn't been papered over well either. I can't load a Writeboard from Basecamp without some weird 1990s-style "we're loading your Writeboard" page hanging around for a couple of seconds. UI-wise, I'd be satisfied with it being separate if it weren't for the extra page coming up wasting time and making me think something happened.
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timjahnalmost 14 years ago
I think the effectiveness of project management software depends greatly on the type of project being managed.<p>For example, I don't consider Jira as in the same arena as Basecamp (and I've used both a good amount). I see Jira as a programming/development specific management tool, to be used by programming teams and maybe the managers of those teams.<p>I see Basecamp as a far more flexible project management tool that can fit a wide variety of needs. It works great for organizing our Entrepreneurs Unpluggd events. It works well for some web dev projects and design projects, but not others.<p>Basecamp isn't always THE solution. For some types of projects, it is. For others, it isn't.<p>At the end of the day, the right answer is the project management software that helps you more efficiently organize your specific projects. Because Basecamp doesn't work for Joe and his projects doesn't mean it can't work amazingly for Sally and hers.
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KeyBoardGalmost 14 years ago
My company pays a whole hell of a lot more for a far far more complex and way over bloated system. I applaud 37signals for their choices and sticking to it. The author here needs to just get over the fact that his needs outgrew the software and to seek another solution. No need for the dramatics.
nirajralmost 14 years ago
I got quite put off by lack of email integration in Basecamp and recently wrote this: <a href="http://goo.gl/Vthjb" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/Vthjb</a><p>I've, since, moved away from Basecamp and am almost completely on Jira now.
mberningalmost 14 years ago
The customers you start off with are usually not the customers you end with. People grow, products grow.
grandalfalmost 14 years ago
Basecamp seems to be designed exactly for a web design shop that wants to take on bigger projects and present an organized appearance to clients. More client management than project management.
dfischeralmost 14 years ago
Shameless plug: we built <a href="http://www.kanbanpad.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.kanbanpad.com</a> because we wanted something simple and intuitive. Basecamp never fit our flow.
andrew_wc_brownalmost 14 years ago
I think every Project Manager has its place. I really like the development of Asana. <a href="http://asana.com/" rel="nofollow">http://asana.com/</a>
EGregalmost 14 years ago
Just wait for what we are planning to release ;-)
languagehackeralmost 14 years ago
Am I the only person who couldn't get anything out of this post because of its bad grammar?
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