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Launch HN: Porter (YC S20) – Open-source Heroku in your own cloud

239 pointsby sungrokshimabout 4 years ago
Hi HN! We are Alexander, Justin, and Trevor from Porter. We&#x27;re building a Kubernetes-based Platform as a Service (PaaS) that deploys applications on your own cloud provider. Specifically, Porter provisions a Kubernetes cluster in your own cloud account and lets you deploy and manage applications on it through a Heroku-like PaaS layer. And although applications deployed via Porter run on Kubernetes, no knowledge of Kubernetes is necessary to use Porter. Here is our repository (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;porter-dev&#x2F;porter" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;porter-dev&#x2F;porter</a>) and website (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getporter.dev" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getporter.dev</a>). There was also an HN thread about us a few weeks ago, posted by someone who discovered us (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26587637" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26587637</a> - thank you OP!).<p>We have known each other since high school&#x2F;college and have been working on projects together full-time since 2020. When YC funded us in S20, we were building a remote development platform for teams on Kubernetes (kinda like repl.it but for microservices in particular). This was a more enterprisey product and we got burnt out by the slow sales&#x2F;iteration cycle (we had zero experience with sales, let alone enterprises). So we decided to pivot a few months after demo day.<p>When we were struggling to get traction with the original direction, we learned a ton by talking to engineering teams that are using Kubernetes (k8s). One thing we noticed is that there&#x27;s an increasing number of startups who start on a PaaS like Heroku and end up migrating to k8s later as their applications “grow out” of Heroku, due to constraints in networking, performance, security, etc.<p>While Kubernetes is great, it incurs a ton of engineering overhead. For teams who don’t know k8s at all, learning everything from scratch is daunting and time-consuming. Even if there are devops engineers on the team who are familiar with kubernetes, adopting k8s slows down developer velocity because other developers always need the devops engineers’ help to troubleshoot the slightest application issues. While we were working on our previous product, we discovered that some companies even built internal development platforms (IdP) that are much like Porter, in order to help developers deploy and troubleshoot their applications without help from the devops engineers. Our goal with Porter is to create a platform that is truly as easy to use as Heroku, without compromising the flexibility of k8s.<p>There are many self-hosted PaaS&#x27;s that came before Porter, such as Flynn, Tsuru, Dokku, and CapRover, which were all created before Kubernetes changed the DevOps landscape. While these are great lightweight options for smaller projects, a PaaS built on top of the k8s ecosystem comes with many benefits such as scalability, stability, configurability and interoperability across cloud providers. We believe that k8s is the best system to deliver a PaaS on, and we’re not alone - many of the new hosted PaaS’s are also built on top of k8s, although that’s an implementation detail that is usually not advertised to the user. We want to not only deliver the PaaS experience on top of Kubernetes, but also give users full ownership&#x2F;control of the underlying k8s cluster by running it in their own cloud.<p>How it works: we spin up a k8s cluster in your own AWS&#x2F;GCP&#x2F;DO account and let you deploy and manage applications on it through a Heroku-like abstraction layer. For teams using a PaaS like Heroku, Porter can be a drop-in replacement that you don’t “grow out” of. And although our abstraction layer covers most use cases, we let those who want to customize go freely under the hood to interact with the underlying cluster. In each cloud provider, we provision the standard managed k8s offering (e.g. EKS&#x2F;GKE&#x2F;DigitalOcean Kubernetes), so the clusters we provision are perfectly compatible with kubectl and any other k8s tooling out there. It’s even possible to connect Porter to an existing k8s cluster—this isn’t the primary use case we’re building for at the moment, but we’d love to discuss it in the comments if anyone is interested.<p>In terms of implementation, we’ve built Porter around the Helm ecosystem, and every application you deploy is packaged as a Helm chart. For those who want more visibility, we’ve built features like “devops mode” that lets you visualize and manage the Helm charts and its underlying k8s objects.<p>We’ve published Porter to be fully open source under the MIT license. We provide a hosted version that is currently in open beta, but it&#x27;s also possible to run Porter locally. It’s worth clarifying that on the hosted version, the applications you deploy through Porter still run in your own cloud. What is hosted by us is only the PaaS layer, not your applications. We plan to release a self-hostable version of the PaaS layer itself in the near future, packaged as a Helm chart. We do not support this yet because self-hosting the PaaS layer inevitably incurs devops overhead and requires some knowledge of k8s, and we are currently focused on those who just want the Heroku experience without having to deal with k8s in any way.<p>In terms of pricing, we are still figuring out the specifics. Our goal is to not charge individual developers&#x2F;small startups but instead draw revenue from larger teams based on usage, and with premium features that are geared towards collaboration. Existing PaaS’s like Heroku&#x2F;Netlify have solid examples of such premium features - review apps, pipelines, and Role Based Access Control are a few examples that we also consider to be potential premium features on Porter. That said, we are currently focused on laying out the stable foundation of the platform, so these premium features are further down on our roadmap.<p>Thank you so much for reading and we&#x27;d love it if you could give it a try: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;porter-dev&#x2F;porter" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;porter-dev&#x2F;porter</a>. We&#x27;ll be hanging out in the comments to hear any ideas and feedback you may have. If you have any experiences related to what we’ve built, we would love it if you could share them below. Very much looking forward to learning from you!

27 comments

mwcampbellabout 4 years ago
On the one hand, I don&#x27;t want to post a shallow dismissal on your big launch day. On the other hand, this does look like something that&#x27;s been tried a dozen times before. To name one example, Convox (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;convox.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;convox.com&#x2F;</a>) started out using ECS on AWS, but more recently switched to being a multi-cloud platform on top of Kubernetes. Cloud66 has also tried a few things in this space. What sets Porter apart from other products in this apparently crowded field?
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evantahlerabout 4 years ago
We are early Porter users, and it strikes the right balance of being being &quot;full service&quot; to get you started quickly but then letting you tweak what we need in custom ways as you grow.<p>The setup was simple - EKS cluster created for you (or you can use your own), automatic bot instrumentation to build and push containers for you, Heroku-like &quot;git-ops&quot; etc.<p>But, under the hood they made the (IMO) wise choice to use each cloud&#x27;s tooling as much as possible so you can modify things as needed. For example, the EKS cluster on AWS is in a regular autoscaling group. Persistent drives for containers (if you opt-into them) are regular EC2 block devices, etc.
brapabout 4 years ago
After just skimming through the landing page, one thing I want to point out:<p>I absolutely love the fact that they simply show me what the product looks like. Often times you have to dig through docs and &quot;features&quot; pages just to get a glimpse of the offering. Here it&#x27;s front and center, screenshots are right there in your face, can&#x27;t miss it even if you want to.<p>To other SaaS developers, I say: SHOW ME THE DAMN PRODUCT!<p>The only step up from this is to have an <i>interactive</i>, radically simplified version of the product embedded in the landing page, with dummy data I can play with it, just to get a feel of the product. Obviously this is much more difficult to get right.
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EncoreAppabout 4 years ago
To get the cluster up and running using AWS EKS, it costs $0.10&#x2F;hour which means at a minimum you&#x27;re spending $72&#x2F;mo ($860+&#x2F;year) to just run the cluster and not the underlying resources. How do you justify this and compare against other options like Qovery?
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resouerabout 4 years ago
Really nice project, and really hoping these efforts could make devs lives easier! Alibaba indeed built a OSS project named KubeVela (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kubevela.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kubevela.io</a>) with similar goal though with a bit different approach:<p>1. Modeling all platform capabilities with Helm&#x2F;CUE modules, so essentially a PaaS built with Helm&#x2F;CUE.<p>2. Self-service workflow based on above LEGO-style components.<p>3. No specific add-on system, so just Helm charts.<p>We also auto-gen forms based on Helm&#x2F;CUE, it&#x27;s great more and more products are leveraging this capability and wider ecosystem.
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steventeyabout 4 years ago
Have been using Porter for about 2 months now and all I can say is how impress I have been with the team&#x27;s ability to ship new features + updates while also keeping up with their fantastic customer service! Have very high hopes for them and would definitely recommend betting on them early!
nerdyyatriceabout 4 years ago
Can someone please list the existing &quot;Heroku&quot; on K8s PAAS (I know about a dozen on top of my mind) and compare with them one by one?
tluyben2about 4 years ago
Would &#x27;your own&#x27; not at least also imply bare metal? Kubernetes on standard hosting hosting (without special routers&#x2F;private networking) seems a pita. I want my own because I want to get away from the big hosters, but seems no boxed solutions with kubernetes cater for that. Or maybe I just do not know them yet; I have asked around a lot.<p>(The load balancer is the issue: there seem no good ingress solutions if you do not have hardware support even though there are lb as a service like cloudflare and software loadbalancers which are not supported. Again as far as I can find)
0xbadcafebeeabout 4 years ago
I run enterprise cloud infra for living. If I were to use a self hosted Heroku thing, would be conflicted about it being based on K8s.<p>On the one hand, I get it that what you&#x27;re doing is complex and K8s does a lot of it for you. On the other hand, you&#x27;re building a complex system on top of a complex system. This naturally leads to more difficulty and doesn&#x27;t really give much advantage after the system is built. Technically if your system is buggy I could dive into K8s, or add functionality with K8s. But I don&#x27;t want to have to do either of those.<p>The best system would be one whose essential complexity is stripped down to just what one needs to do for the primary goals of the system. One example is Drone.io, which is the simplest CI system I have ever seen. It is limited in functionality, yet I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s anything you can&#x27;t do with it. And it&#x27;s insanely trivial to configure and run. It certainly has issues you have to work around, but it&#x27;s so simple that that&#x27;s not hard to do.<p>I admire your goals, but my bet is that unless you are geniuses, this is going to end up more complicated than you imagine, and it&#x27;ll take more sales work than engineering to make it successful. Best of luck to you.
mstipeticabout 4 years ago
does anyone have any insight what&#x27;s with all these companies coming out of yc that are just open source implementations of currently successful projects? there&#x27;s been at least 5 now<p>is there some reasoning behind it or are we running out of ideas?
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mushufasaabout 4 years ago
Hello! I&#x27;m currently using Heroku and exploring a switch due to technical limitations with Heroku.<p>My team is evaluating porter versus alternatives like Qovery and Skaffold. What is your pitch on Porter versus other attempts to replicate the magic of Heroku with kubernetes on a directly controlled cloud?
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matt2000about 4 years ago
First, congrats on the launch! Glad to see more products in this space. Now, some questions :)<p>I&#x27;ve looked at many of the attempts similar to this over the years and while you hear &quot;you don&#x27;t need to know how to operate K8S&quot; you are in fact operating K8S and when there&#x27;s a problem suddenly all this complexity is revealed. If Heroku has a problem, it&#x27;s pretty clear where the responsibilities lie, but with this it&#x27;s your code but my deployment so I&#x27;m kind of on the hook. What are your thoughts on that?<p>How would you compare to something like app platform at Digital Ocean?<p>Thanks!
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arvindamirtaaabout 4 years ago
I had the pleasure of speaking with the founder way back when they were super early. Was really impressed but didn&#x27;t have a very good use for it for me.<p>So glad to see them grow into what they&#x27;ve become today :)
freedombenabout 4 years ago
Off topic, but my last name is Porter and a couple years ago I tried to register the domain porter.dev but it was taken. I&#x27;m guessing you probably tried to do the same :-D
cloudcodesabout 4 years ago
Porter looks really nice, kudos on open source.<p>Also, lots of companies in this area, was talking to folks behind Octad (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;octad.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;octad.io</a>) who are doing similar stuff too.<p>I also wonder how will it all play out in 1yr and how it would impact customers. Almost all these cos are on the similar tangents - Render (self hosted), Qovery, Convox, Platform.sh, Octopus.com, Reploy, Releasehub, etc etc.
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pixel_tracingabout 4 years ago
I think my major hesitation is your pricing model, I don’t want to be surprised by some bill and that is the biggest turn off from your product.<p>I just want to peacefully launch my side projects without being “locked” into a vendor or framework that will start charging me on a random day after it was free.<p>That’s why I opted out of porter and learned to deploy and build my own automation pipeline.<p>Please change my mind porter guys.
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eterpsabout 4 years ago
Does Porter support having isolated environments per git branch like Quovery?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.qovery.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;getting-started&#x2F;what-is-qovery&#x2F;#one-branch--one-environment" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.qovery.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;getting-started&#x2F;what-is-qovery&#x2F;...</a>
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dchessabout 4 years ago
How does this compare to Dokku?[1] I&#x27;ve been using that for a few years now with minimal lift&#x2F;maintenance. I&#x27;m wondering what the trade-offs are of something like this?<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dokku.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dokku.com&#x2F;</a>
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sfc32about 4 years ago
A short video of how it works or more screenshots might be a nice addition to the repo.
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faitswulffabout 4 years ago
How useful would Porter be for teams that have little to no Kubernetes experience?
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maneeshabout 4 years ago
I have found it easy to deploy with Dockerfiles on Porter, but tough to use buildpacks (with python. Node seems to work).<p>Is there a guide on how to deploy with docker-compose, instead of dockerfiles?
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mixmastamykabout 4 years ago
Neat project. I was recently looking at Fly for similar functionality. Wonder how different the day to day experience is? Anyone familiar with the two?
infocollectorabout 4 years ago
Any chance you could add Azure support as well? Perhaps there is something particular that is making that harder?
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sreejithrabout 4 years ago
Great idea! I&#x27;d totally use this if it had Azure support. Is Azure support on its way?
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alphabet9000about 4 years ago
i think your website looks good. the subtle animated gradient on the rectangle at the bottom of the page is a nice touch. i like how straightforward the page is. nice work
rcarmoabout 4 years ago
Nice, but no Azure support. Why?
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rajansainiabout 4 years ago
Sick project! When&#x27;s the IPO? :D