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How to design a sailing ship for the 21st century?

85 pointsby rudenoiseabout 4 years ago

14 comments

krasinabout 4 years ago
I hope we get rid of cargo ships that burn matter. But sails are too high maintenance to be scalable.<p>Last year, as an experiment I&#x27;ve launched a tiny solar-powered boat ([1]). Ultimately, it was too small and underpowered only making ~900km ([2]) before dying.<p>I hope to build a bigger drone boat next, hopefully with an ability to move up to 1 tonne of cargo. Apparently, it&#x27;s possible, but (unfortunately) requires very delicate engineering.<p>For bigger boats solar does not seem to scale. It appears that nuclear is the ultimate future for megaships.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;eKlLCNg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imgur.com&#x2F;a&#x2F;eKlLCNg</a><p>2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;storage.googleapis.com&#x2F;samofly&#x2F;track&#x2F;index2.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;storage.googleapis.com&#x2F;samofly&#x2F;track&#x2F;index2.html</a>
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patrickyeonabout 4 years ago
Two of the last paragraphs:<p>&gt; All of this is technically possible, and as we have seen, it would produce less in emissions than the present alternatives. However, it’s more likely that a switch to sailing ships is accompanied by a decrease in cargo and passenger traffic, and this has everything to do with scale and speed. A lot of freight and passengers would not be travelling if it were not for the high speeds and low costs of today’s airplanes and container ships.<p>&gt; It would make little sense to transport iPhones parts, Amazon wares, sweatshop clothes, or citytrippers with sailing ships. A sailing ship is more than a technical means of transportation: it implies another view on consumption, production, time, space, leisure, and travel. For example, a lot of freight now travels in different directions for each next processing stage before it is delivered as a final product. In contrast, all sail cargo companies mentioned in this article only take cargo that cannot be produced locally, and which is one trip from producer to consumer.<p>This speaks to me. I see much more conversation around &quot;how can we use technology to remove the negative environmental impacts from our lifestyles?&quot; than I do around &quot;how can we change our lifestyles to cause fewer negative impacts?&quot;
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Animatsabout 4 years ago
A natural gas powered container ship would probably have lower emissions per unit of cargo moved than the proposed &quot;eco&quot; sailing ship, which has low cargo capacity by modern standards. The big problem with cargo ships from a pollution standpoint is that they run on really crappy &quot;bunker oil C&quot;, which is about halfway between jet fuel and asphalt. Heavier than seawater. One of the biggest sources of preventable pollution.<p>And, come on, then want to haul sails by hand on a ship of that size? And use rowing machines to generate electric power? They&#x27;d need a huge crew.<p>Liquid natural gas carriers often run on their own natural gas. There a few natural gas powered freighters now, but they&#x27;re built in the US for the run to Puerto Rico, which, under the Jones Act, is limited to American ships.
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carapaceabout 4 years ago
Make it <i>big</i>, get it up out of the water.<p>The larger your ship is the more efficient it can be, and the less of it in the water the less energy is needed to push it.<p>So make big <i>big</i> ships with really really big sails. You want the ships to fly with just the keel in the water to steer against the wind.<p>You might think I&#x27;m joking or talking nonsense, but look up Alexander Bell&#x27;s cellular geodesic kites, and Bucky Fuller&#x27;s &quot;Cloud Nine&quot; floating city.
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foucabout 4 years ago
&gt; The amount of cargo that was traded across the oceans in 2019 equals the freight capacity of 22.4 million EcoClippers. Assuming the EcoClipper500 can make 2-3 trips per year, we would need to build and operate at least 7.5 million ships, with a total crew of at least 90 million people. Those ships could only take 0.5 billion passengers (12 passengers and 8 trainees per ship), so we would need millions of ships and crew members more to replace international air traffic.<p>Interesting article but I&#x27;d like to hear about other large scale sail boat designs, perhaps even mega-catamaran sailboats..
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ReptileManabout 4 years ago
&gt;The EcoClipper500 has a carbon footprint of 2 grammes of CO2 per tonne-kilometre, which is five times less than the carbon footprint of a container ship.<p>And if that is not a testament how stupidly efficient container megaships are, I don&#x27;t know what it is.
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gh55about 4 years ago
I&#x27;m surprised no-one has mentioned rotor sails yet <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Rotor_ship?wprov=sfla1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Rotor_ship?wprov=sfla1</a>
WalterBrightabout 4 years ago
The best solution is to simply tax bunker fuel, at a rate that approximates its pollution cost.<p>Then the market will sort it out to find another optimum.
p1mrxabout 4 years ago
I would expect a 21st century sailing ship to have sails built like wind turbine blades, positioned autonomously.
oskaabout 4 years ago
Book recommendation if you found this article interesting (and haven&#x27;t already read the book, a classic) :<p>Eric Newby, <i>The Last Grain Race</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Last_Grain_Race" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;The_Last_Grain_Race</a>
kisamotoabout 4 years ago
Okay it&#x27;s not cargo, but I&#x27;ve seen some innovative &quot;eco&quot; developments in the personal yacht space.<p>Take Daedalus yachts[0] for example, a USA built, lightweight (carbon fibre) sailing yacht with the aim of being zero emissions. They use a combination of solar, wind and hydrogen re&#x2F;generation to get power for both the cabin and the drive system.<p>Perhaps a similar combination of technologies could be used to scale up commercial&#x2F;cargo sailing ships?<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.daedalusyachts.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.daedalusyachts.com&#x2F;</a>
why_only_15about 4 years ago
Does anybody have a good book or good resources for nuclear powered merchant marine? Naively it makes sense that nuclear power could support much larger ships and go much faster than diesel, but i don&#x27;t know how true that actually is.
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aviatabout 4 years ago
monohull sailing ships need to heel<p>modern shipping is designed around stacked containers
robomartinabout 4 years ago
Not so easy.<p>I did a deep dive into the container ship industry many years ago in order to understand unit economics and how certain technologies could improve the ecologic impact of this massive industry. It was very interesting. I learned a lot.<p>I see a lot of comments about going electric, hydrogen, solar, sail, some kind of hybrid, etc. I don&#x27;t think any of this is near any time horizon I can name or recognize.<p>Why?<p>Cargo ships use something called &quot;Bunker Fuel&quot; [0].<p>What is bunker fuel?<p>Well, to put it simply, it is what&#x27;s left after you take petroleum and distill it into various grades of gasoline, diesel, industrial oils, etc. It is often referred to as &quot;the bottom of the barrel&quot;. Another way to think of it is that bunker fuel is the waste product. Some grades of bunker fuel are so thick you can walk on it and will only flow if heated. This should not come as surprise, asphalt is the next level down and that stuff is solid enough to make roads out of it.<p>Why did I say &quot;not so easy&quot;?<p>Because these ships are effectively burning the waste product from the manufacturing process that leads to all the fuels and lubricants we consume in massive quantities.<p>What does this mean?<p>If we stopped using bunker fuel next Monday, what would we do with the absolutely massive amounts of bunker fuel produced every year? Think about that for a moment.<p>Sure, hydrogen and electric sound &quot;clean&quot;, but you would have a potentially larger ecologic disaster in having to dump bunker fuel somewhere. The bottom of the barrel isn&#x27;t going to magically disappear just because we transition cargo ships to something else.<p>What to do then? It&#x27;s a tough problem. One solution, maybe, I don&#x27;t know, is to evaluate how efficiently and cleanly we might be able to burn bunker fuel on land vs. on a ship. My point is that we might be able to extract and use this energy in a super-clean way, to charge batteries or whatever. I haven&#x27;t studied this at all. I would imagine that if we set out to truly create a super-clean process to burn bunker fuel on land for energy generation it could be a good path forward. I don&#x27;t know how much better we could do on land (in terms of clean burning) than on a ship. I&#x27;d like to think we could do a lot better.<p>I do think the future is electric, in some form. What I can&#x27;t see or predict is how we transition from today&#x27;s reality to that reality. This isn&#x27;t a case of just having to solve the containership problem, you have to solve the entire oil&#x2F;fuel ecosystem because, if you don&#x27;t, you are going to have astronomic amounts of bunker fuel (waste product) to contend with. This is how shifting cargo ships to electric could actually be worse for the environment than letting it be and working to make them as clean as possible. Weird, isn&#x27;t it?<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Fuel_oil" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Fuel_oil</a>
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