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Google made my son cry

583 pointsby rostayobalmost 14 years ago

61 comments

DannoHungalmost 14 years ago
Google needs a fucking customer support line already. Make it a 900 number if they need to and charge $20 per call, but for the love of cheese the number of times something goes horribly wrong and there is little to no recourse is silly. They refuse to let people pay for their services and thus establish a billing verification channel but they're asking users to put tons of important information into them with no recourse if something does happen.
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zwiebackalmost 14 years ago
I must be a total minority here but as a parent of a 9 and 11 year old I'm shocked how many commenters recommend "just lie" or even teach their kids that lying is ok on the internet. Maybe this particular kid is a total outlier but I can say for sure that my kids and their friends are definitely not ready for any kind of sophisticated reasoning about when to apply which morals. At that age they are also fairly unable to separate fact from ficition and news from gossip.<p>The age limit of 13 seems pretty reasonable to me and if as a parent you think your kid is so mature (hint: he isn't) then it is definitely your responsibility to act as a guardian.<p>Google didn't make your son cry, you made your son cry. And that's fine, we all make our kids cry from time to time. Explain the mistake you made to your kid, figure out what to do in the future and move on.
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mscarboroughalmost 14 years ago
I'm surprised at all the histrionics going on in the article and this thread.<p>"Google ... plans to cut him off from his family until he's 13."<p>First, take a deep breath. Then, get another email address that you can control, and back it up. See if the grandparents still have copies of their correspondence for the kid to read. Use this as an opportunity to teach the importance of backing up data that is important to you, and why you can't trust free online services to always look out for you.<p>Currently I'm in India, and today witnessed children sifting through open piles of garbage and panhandling in the middle of traffic. So it's kind of maddening to then witness the stunning lack of perspective these parents demonstrate when their child is temporarily cut off from site update emails and using chat to talk to them while sitting in the same room.<p>Yes, I understand the data loss making a 10 year old "enormously upset", but if these seemingly technically-savvy parents didn't yet realize the necessity of owning and managing data that is important to the family, then I'd hope that point isn't lost. In the time spent to write a hysterical blog and more responses in the comments, a simple solution to ensure this did not happen again could have been implemented.
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jdvolzalmost 14 years ago
Am I the only person who thinks this is a great way to teach your son about civil disobedience? It's clear this law, while well intended, isn't meant to cover this specific situation. I would argue this type of civil disobedience is the first step in getting the law changed (in this case, to something more reasonable, or requiring that parental consent be available and expedient).<p>It's important for children to understand that laws aren't written in stone and that if they dislike a law they can work to change it. Feeling helpless and acting helpless isn't in the best interest of anyone's child or our children's generation as a whole.
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ernalmost 14 years ago
I think it's unfair that under 13s aren't allowed to use Gmail. But being able to use email, code in Python and use Powerpoint, doesn't mean he has the maturity to use social networking.<p>The internet is a cruel place, and hysteria about online predators aside, I think that the biggest risk to kids is from their own peer group. I recently encountered a fake profile on FB that was harassing high school kids, including a cousin, by spreading rumours about them. The rumours seemed silly to an adult, but the reactions of the victims on the perpetrator's wall were telling: begging, swearing, threatening (incidentally, Facebook's abuse system was pretty useless, I got the account killed because I figured out who the bully probably was, and dropped a few not-so-subtle-hints threatening to expose her). If teenagers are so distressed by online bullying, it would be worse for pre-teens.<p>I have sympathy for Alex and his parents, but I don't blame the law for blocking young children from accessing these services, especially social networking sites.
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tybrisalmost 14 years ago
I think he learned a valuable lesson about how to use the Internet: lie about everything.
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dexenalmost 14 years ago
Why is that parents can't give consent to their young (&#60;13y/o) child using Google account?<p>Parent logs into his/her account, parent creates kid's account, parent states real age (10 years), parent expresses consent, child uses the new account. Is it that complex?
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ComputerGurualmost 14 years ago
COPPA gives an (easy?) way out - the parents just have to fax in their consent for their underage son to use their service. There is no law stopping the kid, Google probably just doesn't want to be inundated with such requests.
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neworbitalmost 14 years ago
Yeah, Google's pretty much required to do this by US law though (the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act) - I'll leave the "think of the children" jokes to other folks.
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sltkralmost 14 years ago
I hate to be that guy that links to xkcd comics, but here it goes anyway: <a href="http://xkcd.com/743/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/743/</a><p>Google is under no obligation to allow 13-year-olds on their service anyway, and I'm sure the age limit comes from legal restrictions, not just ageism on Google's part.<p>Fortunately, e-mail is already an open protocol, and you can get a working e-mail address anywhere. I understand the attraction of Gmail (it's free, user-friendly and offers a lot of storage) but it comes with some conditions; that's part of the deal.
brudgersalmost 14 years ago
I will agree that children under 13 are perfectly capable of using email safely with adult supervision.<p>However, the circumstances involved show why 13 years of age may be considered a reasonable minimum age for using Google's services, because the incident which sparked the account being locked was a 10 year old signing up for a social network designed with the assumption that its users would be capable of make sophisticated decisions regarding privacy and be reasonably able to detect ill intent or predatory behavior in an online environment.<p>While I can understand that the motives which led to the creation of the original email account were based on sound parenting and offered clear benefits for a child, it is hard to imagine sound rationales for giving a 10 year old unfettered access to a social network.<p>From email to social network there is a quantum leap in the level of sophistication required to safely navigate the service and I see Google's stance as not only justified but reasonable. The argument that it is ok to lie about one's age breaks pretty quickly - very few people are comfortable with 12 year old girls telling grown men they are 18.
corin_almost 14 years ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the under 13 law (in US and some other places, or "policy" rather than law for Google internationally) is only without a guardian's permission, so if a letter was written on behalf of him, they would reactivate it?<p>Well, certainly that's the case with the law - as to Google policy, that's where you should correct me if I'm wrong.<p>Edit, on a side note, if the author is the poster here (or reads HN either way): I really like your writing. The story itself normally wouldn't make me care a huge amount (a short version is "a ten year old can't use a 13 and over service"), but I actually found myself really empathising and feeling upset on his behalf.
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ck2almost 14 years ago
Valuable lessons to teach about backups and maybe not putting data into the cloud that can be local.<p>My 2012 project is going to be to quit gmail somehow and get back to imap with local storage.<p>Why not buy the kid his own domain name and teach him how to set it up and use a local email program (Thunderbird?)
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w1ntermutealmost 14 years ago
Who gives their real DOB when registering for a website? I've been using January 1st, 1975 as my birthday ever since I started using the internet.
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petewailesalmost 14 years ago
This also surely means that the Dear Sophie video shouldn't be possible, as the kid, having just been born is thus under 13.<p>Link for those who don't know what I'm on about: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4vkVHijdQk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4vkVHijdQk</a>
csomaralmost 14 years ago
This is why I'm going to setup my own mail server. I don't want to wake up some days and find out that all my emails where deleted or locked because of <i>any</i> stupid or not stupid reason. Emails are quite important. They hold very important/confidential information. Your email is also the key to remember forgotten passwords, your conversations with clients, and many other things.<p>I have purchased the cheapest Linode VPS for this particular reason. I tried Live Mail (the Windows Application) with IMAP and it's really cool. The editor is also better than the Gmail one. I'll miss some features, but it's okay.<p>Seriously, if you don't want to get hurt, get a VPS or a dedicated. It's not expensive. You host your emails, websites, repositories and everything. You do scheduled backups to Amazon S3 and you are just fine.<p>I'm going to write about how awesome a dedicated server is, once I complete setting up my server and create my blog.
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raganeshalmost 14 years ago
Google recently ran the "Dear Sophie" commercial. The core theme of the commercial is against Google's ToS.<p>TechCrunch article on the same along with Google's BS response: <a href="http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/09/attention-dear-sophie-inspired-parents-you-cant-actually-create-a-google-account-for-your-kid/" rel="nofollow">http://techcrunch.com/2011/05/09/attention-dear-sophie-inspi...</a>
chrisbucalmost 14 years ago
Interestingly, I've just taken a look at the gmail signup process, and the birthdate field appears when I select location "US" but not when you select "UK"<p>I'm sure I remember seeing an google advert recently (in the UK) where a father sends emails to his child over several years for the child to receive when they're old enough to use email - and I'm sure the child's email was a gmail account (I may be mistaken, though).
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savramescualmost 14 years ago
This is most likely an automated trigger that blocked &#38; scheduled for deletion that account. Even for a company as big as Google it's impossible to have these type of things reviewed by humans. What I do hope is that they'll create a channel for complaints if the user should want to. What I don't understand is the way the parent behaves. He knows he's in the wrong and he still feels outraged because Google blocked the e-mail. Even though nobody reads the ToS it doesn't mean that they are moot. Google didn't make his son cry, his father did.
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flocialalmost 14 years ago
I think a lot of people are missing a more important discussion. Should Google be allowed to cross-check a customer's data across all their services? Think about it. If you or your company uses Google Apps, you have Gmail, Youtube, adSense, Ad Mob, and accounts on a bunch of other services that got bought, they know what you search for, and now they even have an approximation of your social graph with Google+ (although it's not much different from your Google contacts).<p>Banks are regulated by laws that restrict certain arms of their businesses from collaborating too closely (particularly sharing financial information) and I don't think Google should be any different). Was it ok for Google to associate the information entered in a Google profile to shut down his child's email?<p>The problem with this system is that honest people are penalized and liars are not punished. Regardless of how this man handles the situation, that is not something I would like to face as a parent, to have my child punished for being honest and having to choose between social justice through lying (the child clearly has parent supervision and approval) and letting the child become embittered for losing a significant part of their digital identity (I'd recommend using offlineimap next time though).
beaumartinezalmost 14 years ago
Can he not request his mail over POP3 or IMAP and store it locally? Or is his login terminally locked?<p>What an appalling user experience—and on so many levels. It should have at least warned him that by setting <i>his</i> age he was in violation of the TOS.
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pathikalmost 14 years ago
What's the big deal? Google is required by law to do that. Enter a fake birth date.
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defdacalmost 14 years ago
This got me thinking. Are there an equivalent of streetsmart on the web - "websmart"? I can't see trace of it in this kids parents or the kid himself. Isn't this sort of useless restriction the first thing you learn to circumvent when you enter the web? It's a web page/service for god sake, not a life threatening mechanical contraption that might chop your head of if used improperly.
Joakalalmost 14 years ago
Puzzle Pirates handles this better by freezing the game account until the user reaches the estimate legal age.<p>Avoids COPPA hassles and issues with deletion.
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willvarfaralmost 14 years ago
I hope the googlers who browse here will be able to sort out a special mail-log as a parting gift
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scotty79almost 14 years ago
He forgot to teach his kid important lesson.<p>On the internet you can and should lie, cheat and steal, just don't harm real people.
blahedoalmost 14 years ago
I'm surprised at how many people in this thread are focusing on the "Google locked the account" as the bad part of this. The clear fuck-up on Google's part is rather that they didn't provide any avenue for Alex's parents to accept the contract on his behalf.<p>Nobody would be complaining (other than the usual light grumbling) if the lockout message had been something like this: "Parent permission required! Our records show that you are not yet 13, so we have blocked access to your account. To restore access: If you <i>are</i> at least 13, click here to send proof of that. If you are under 13, have a parent or guardian click here to link your account to theirs and accept the terms of service on your behalf."
michaelschadealmost 14 years ago
What would be really awesome of Google to do then is, if they do lock an account out due to an age-based TOS violation, still provide access to Google Takeout (and add Gmail to the supported services list) so the kid could at least easily get his data back.<p>IANAL, so I don't know if he technically would not be allowed to access Google Takeout either via the TOS, but if Google's lawyers could incorporate an exception of some sort for age-based violations, then this would at least be a super nice thing for them to do.
mottersalmost 14 years ago
Well, when you live inside of a walled garden the proprietor can kick you, or your son, off the grass for any ephemeral or arbitrary reason they happen to have just thought of.
SMrFalmost 14 years ago
It boggles the mind that this was actually implemented. Some poor schmuck had to sit there and write the code to delete little kid's emails.
TorKlingbergalmost 14 years ago
A scary thing is, if I signed up for Google+ and accidentally chose 2000 as my birth year, my Google account would have been locked. That includes Gmail, Google Apps, Google Code and probably Android. I guess making phone calls would still work, but who knows in a future when we all use IP telephony.
metaprinteralmost 14 years ago
On the internet, I was born in 1901.
tobylanealmost 14 years ago
I was expecting that the child searched some odd word combination that is some horrible (yet brilliant) internet meme like rule 34 or jailbait. This is comparatively boring, COPPA faxes?
coffie6423almost 14 years ago
I have been playing with computers ever since I remember. My first CPU was 8 bit. At that point I was 7. I have not stopped my obsession with it. In the meantime, before I reached 18, I had disregarded laws that will not allow me to access sites.<p>I have not paid much attention to these laws. Thinking back, though, I think I should not have been spending too much time playing around on computers, but enjoying playing outside.
Poiesisalmost 14 years ago
Is it a TOS violation for someone else to use your account? Adult signs up, kid uses account. Seemingly all perfectly legal, right?
dholowiskialmost 14 years ago
Should have gotten him his own domain name (through someone other than google) and used backupify to back up his email. Then when google decides to shut you down, you still own your identity, and your data. Actually this applies for everybody, under or over 13.
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SoftwareMavenalmost 14 years ago
I wonder if Google was headquartered in Utah, where the number of engineers with kids would undoubtably be MUCH higher, if this would be a solved problem already. The law certainly has ways of letting under 13 onto the web, just ask Disney.
tommialmost 14 years ago
It's a sensational story about the required 13 years of age to use the services.
dendoryalmost 14 years ago
He could take that as a challenge and learn to buy his own domain, build his own site, install his own webmail system. That way he will never have to worry about a cloud service shutting him down.
dev1nalmost 14 years ago
if lulz security ever takes down another organization please let it be google. They need to learn that taking people's data is not something individuals will take lightly, nor should it be included in a bloody ToS. Nor should there be any reason why the boy's parents couldn't sign off on the contract as his legal guardians on the internet, as they are in real life. Google does not need to keep a 10 year old's email's to his grandparents because of a ToS breach. big impersonal corporations FTL.
woodallalmost 14 years ago
Just a suggestion, pretty sure it won't work, but has the author tried downloading the messages using IMAP or POP?<p>Other than that, it really does suck but it's not a quick or easy fix.
dkarlalmost 14 years ago
Sheesh, teach him about appropriate times to lie, already. You shouldn't tell anyone on the internet you're under eighteen unless you're signing up for summer camp.
GFischeralmost 14 years ago
The author made a followup post here:<p><a href="http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/013103.html#563511" rel="nofollow">http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/013103.html#56...</a><p>This is what it says:<p>"Hey ho. Commenting here because I feel chased out of my own blog. I'm trying to figure out if I want to write a follow-up blog post, and if so, what I would write in it. More importantly, who would I be writing it for? There may be some catharsis for me in writing a response, but it would also involve me stewing in asshat soup for even longer while I composed it.<p>The main thing I would want to clarify is that the technical problems are not actually the heart of the matter for me. Being responsible parents, we set Alex's email up in such a way that we get copies of all his incoming messages. We can probably reconstruct large chunks of his correspondence to date. I'm not even sure if Alex thinks of email as a long-term thing, though. He archives messages, but I don't know if he considers them anything other than ephemeral.<p>Secondly, we can set him up with a new email account somewhere else. No problem. Offline, IMAP, webmail, whatever. That's easy. (Although I would very much prefer not to have to run my own email server, in the same way that I prefer not to fix the engine of my own car.) Alternatively, we can just do what everyone else does, and simply lie. It wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last. (#include relevant discussions of "legal" vs. "moral".)<p>What really made me angry was the emotional harm. I don't like using that phrase, because for me it brings to mind stereotypical unreasonable lawsuits, but that's what it is. An authority figure in Alex's life turned round and damn near bit his hand off, when Alex thought he was following that figure's instructions. It feels like a violation of trust. No matter whether we get his old email back, the original violation remains. Hence the title of my post: Google made my son cry. When you hurt my kid, I get angry.<p>I completely understand that Google's hands are tied because of COPPA. As soon as they knew that Alex was younger than 13, they had to act, and they can't "un-know" that information. My instinct says that this is an unintended consequence, though. I find it hard to imagine that "weeding out underage Gmail users" was listed as a goal on the G+ rollout plan.<p>What would make me happy, as a parent (first of all) and as an interaction designer (because I find it hard to leave the professional side behind)? What would make this right?<p>* If 13 is the hard age limit for using Gmail, Google should ask for your age when you sign up for a Gmail account. That way, you know in advance you're going to have to lie, rather than having the truth come up and bite you in the ass two years later.<p>* Instead of the harsh, default TOS violation message, a sympathetic and apologetic error message tuned for the specific circumstance of discovering that you are too young to use the service. Think about it. In this specific case, what do you know about the user? You know that they're a child. Design for this. Error messages are bad enough for grown-ups; they're double-bad for kids.<p>* The option to retrieve Alex's old email, instead of just discarding it.<p>* The option for us to give parental consent for Alex to have a Gmail account. I love Gmail. I would much rather Alex had a Gmail account than that we have to arse about with Thunderbird and our own IMAP server.<p>* Even if there is nothing they can do, an apology would be nice. Just because they're legally in the right, doesn't mean that they feel good about it. Show this."
dschobelalmost 14 years ago
Great headline, total non-story. It'll be interesting to see how high this one goes on HN...
felipeocalmost 14 years ago
In Brazil every kid knows how to lie the date of birth in order to create an Orkut account.
wnoisealmost 14 years ago
Minors: the last minority it's still okay (and legally mandated) to discriminate against.
thricedottedalmost 14 years ago
I was 10 when COPPA first came into effect, but even before that I never put my actual age/birthday into accounts I registered, and if it was an email service that required an "actual" name from me, I always used some silly pseudonym. All this so I could play Scrabble, chess, and Battlefield with strangers on various websites, email my fourth grade teacher, make a Homestead chatroom, and tell the internet how much I loved SpongeBob SquarePants. Until I turned 13, I never batted an eyelash about lying about my age on the internet -- it was simply something I thought I was expected to do, not because I thought the government wanted to keep me off the internet (which they did, but my parents didn't, so whatever), but because if everybody at least <i>pretended</i> to be over 13, then those under 13 might be safer. My offline and online identities didn't merge until I was 17 or 18...at about the time Facebook started picking up speed.<p>Now, I don't think that's the right mentality to have, and it's based on false logic since being a teen still makes you prey on the internet, but it's the mentality that was imbued in me as a person who started using the internet pre-COPPA restrictions and, more importantly, pre-Facebook -- in an age when people weren't EXPECTED to have their offline identities connected to their online ones. Especially children.<p>His parents obviously knew about COPPA restrictions due to the YouTube account business, although I'm still confused as to why he wasn't asked for his age/birthdate on the Gmail registration page. No, their son shouldn't have put his age into Google+, especially if he already know that he couldn't use it to create a YouTube account; yes, Google should at least allow data export for the account (although they are by no means obligated to) and/or provide a streamlined process for parents to authorize the accounts of any users under 13. I remember GameFAQs reacted to COPPA by locking the account of any user under 13 until their 13th birthday -- this would be more reasonable to me, but it sounds like the personal data storage issue gets in the way of that.<p>Anyway, to me, the more interesting thing is that this post made me realize that I came "of age" (i.e., reached a point where I would be considered something of an adult rather than a complete child) at the same time the internet identity paradigm shifted from relative anonymity and "alter egos" to something much more closely interconnected to a person's real life. And so I wonder: if Alex had been born in 1991 rather than 2001, would this have happened with the theoretical Hotmail account he might have had? No, I think, because once upon a time, it was pretty much expected that a person would not be who they said they were on the internet -- and that was absolutely fine. And even moreso, back in the days when you COULD be a child on the internet, I don't think most children wanted to be known AS CHILDREN. Because seriously, who the heck wants to play Scrabble with an 8-year-old kid?<p>So, I guess as a kid who grew up before social networking became big, I still think kids are better off lying about their ages anyway. Those who know them in real life will understand that they're circumventing COPPA, and those who don't will possibly be less prone to being creepy/condescending/what-have-you. While I'm sure that this can be interpreted as victim blaming and everybody should have a right to feel safe on the internet while using their true identity, COPPA serves as something as an arbitrary age of consent, since 10-year-olds could unwittingly provide information that gets them kidnapped, just as 15-year-olds can unwittingly make babies. But if you're a 10-year-old who's mature enough to be conscious about privacy, or a 15-year-old who's mature enough to know about safe sex and birth control, then have at it, I say. The system is there to protect, but if you're not in need of the system's protection, then go ahead and circumvent it.<p>tldr, sorry your son cried, but it would have been easy enough to prevent, and pretty much the expected thing to do during the pre-social networking era.
publicplankingalmost 14 years ago
First World Problems
yawniekalmost 14 years ago
backups, backups,backups...<p>he could start writing the book:<p>learn backups the hard way
VladRussianalmost 14 years ago
this is one of the reasons you never enter real data into online services
Ivalmost 14 years ago
Am I an asshole if my first thought was "that's what you get by putting your data in the cloud" ?
yanwalmost 14 years ago
Your son joined a service he wasn't supposed to, then joined an adjacent service that still requires an invite and that triggered a mechanism that kicked him out and he gets upset, you evidently don't think it's your fault for not reading the TOS and not being familiar with the american COPPA law and you think it's Google's fault.<p>Congratulations on proving that link-baiting works very well even on HN.
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maeon3almost 14 years ago
You are exposing the kid to adult problems, and expecting an infant to behave in in a legal and socially acceptable manner. I'm not saying not to let the kid on the internet, I'm saying that this needs to be an educational experience for a kid, not a situation where we all complain about regrettable situations.<p>Why don't we let kids drive cars? All the kid has to do is lie on the form when taking the drivers test.
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stallkeralmost 14 years ago
Al giorno d'oggi i servizi di hosting costano veramente poco, così se qualcuno mi chiede di consigliargli un buon servizio di posta elettronica (gmail, hotmail, ...) io consiglio di registrarsi un dominio e di attivarsi le proprie caselle di posta, gestendole in quasi completa libertà, invece di sottostare ai capricci delle aziende 'che non vogliono essere il male'. Mi ricordo ancora oggi del mio account @mac.com che doveva restare gratuito per sempre... e poi per potere accedere mi chiesero di pagare (e ancora peggio di possedere una carta di credito... ai tempi le prepagate non esistevano ancora). Scusate se scrivo in italiano... se in qualche modo questo commento può essere utile (e cioè se vedrò un paio di punti assegnati) cercherò di tradurlo al meglio :)<p>edit: thanks to Vivtek for translation :)
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RyanKearneyalmost 14 years ago
ABC Liquor made my son cry when they denied him the sale of alcohol at the age of 8.<p>No, seriously, there's an age limit that he agreed to when he signed up.
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jpralmost 14 years ago
Yay, let's link every service ever together, what could possibly go wrong!
gaetanomaranoalmost 14 years ago
[ goopl.us ] millions people will cry due to Google -- --
dsteinalmost 14 years ago
Orwell would have called this situation getting "ungoogled".
svankiealmost 14 years ago
I think -and with all due respect to you, and your son-... this is extremely exaggerated.
goombasticalmost 14 years ago
A minor is not likely to have immediate spending power, only influence. Google is in the business of making sellers meet buyers. No matter how hard we look at this, that's the fundamental nature of "the Google." It is probable that Google's segmentation of the market shows most minors as being engaged best via TV.<p>Most of us tend to forget that we are the product that Google is marketing.
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jelliclealmost 14 years ago
ATTENTION GOOGLE:<p>REGARDLESS of what you think you need to do to comply with COPPA or any other law in the United States or any other jurisdiction;<p>IF you have automated processes that cancel accounts and freeze data and do not offer at a minimum, an opportunity for the person affected to retrieve his/her data entrusted with you;<p>THEN, this will keep happening (Google-made-me-cry stories).<p>THEREFORE, in order to reduce the number of Google-made-me-cry stories, you should:<p>IMPLEMENT a system to allowed users adversely affected by your automated processes a way to RETRIEVE their data, all the time, no matter what, come hell or high water.<p>IN FACT the account_delete() function shouldn't even take an ARGUMENT about whether to allow data retrieval; account_delete() should have a non-overridable call to allow_account_export_for_thirty_days(), if you KNOW WHAT I MEAN, which I nearly think that you DO.<p>BECAUSE this isn't rocket surgery.<p>AND BECAUSE we get upset if we lose our data. We become WROTH. You wouldn't like us when we are WROTH.<p>IT is the LEAST you could do. Seriously, it's the minimum. The absolute least. You could do more, if you wanted to. But this is the least.<p>SINCERELY, The Internet.
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