TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

177 pointsby 2bor-2nalmost 4 years ago
I have recently finished interviews for Frontend dev role with a remote company and expect a decision from them by next week. During my first interview with the HR I set an expectation of $40 for my hourly rate. But during my subsequent interview with the CTO, he complained about my hourly rate and said that it was too high compared to your skillset and expertise. I deliberately pitch too high in the start so I can get away with a good deal later.<p>The interviews are over, right now it is not guaranteed they will go with me. But assuming they give me an offer, I have a feeling they will offer me some where around $30&#x2F;hr (just this rate, no other compensation) for this position which I am happy to accept.<p>The question is, when they offer me with a lower rate how should I deal with the situation so that I don&#x27;t loose the position and get away with the best deal?<p>P.S The company is US-based with a development team spread all across the globe. I am from South Asia and even $30&#x2F;h is a very big deal.

44 comments

totalZeroalmost 4 years ago
I would try to gently put them on the back foot when they offer a wage.<p>When you receive the offer, you should comment on the differential between expected and offered wage, even if you intend to accept. For example, you might say with a gently puzzled tone, &quot;this is lower than what I would ideally be earning, based on my experience and capabilities. Can you explain how you came to this number?&quot;<p>You may be able to push back on them a little bit. You will be able to tell if there&#x27;s room to negotiate, based on the response to you. Don&#x27;t overdo it, as simply commenting on the differential and seeing how they respond is a way of gently squeezing them. If it seems the number is negotiable, ask if they can compromise with (for example) $33. The art is in doing this in a confident and friendly way, so that the position doesn&#x27;t collapse.<p>Whatever number you set as the price you want, don&#x27;t waver on it after it escapes your lips. Let them consider the number unless it&#x27;s clear there will be no budging. If possible, do some research on other roles or other engineers you know in the business, so that you can justify your ask. It&#x27;s not your standard of living that sets the price, it&#x27;s your alternative job and their alternative hire.
评论 #27332855 未加载
评论 #27333101 未加载
westoquealmost 4 years ago
Disclaimer, I&#x27;m a CTO.<p>Here&#x27;s how I evaluate this if I was evaluating you:<p>1. I already have a salary budget already allocated for this role based on industry average for position and location (but location _could_ be irrelevant depending on skill mostly).<p>2. I look at your skillset and put you at the bucket for the position where you are at: low-med-high<p>3. I make my offer based on my evaluation.<p>4. If you are &quot;worth it&quot;, meaning in the high bucket, then I would go out of my way to give you a good offer, up to max of my budget or to match how much you are asking. Else, I would say the offer is where it stands and either you take it or don&#x27;t.<p>But to answer your question, it doesn&#x27;t hurt to push back as long as you are confident in your skills and know your value is worth more. That one you have to make up for yourself by evaluating yourself with peers and other factors.<p>Oh. And if you do push back, make sure to give a good reason why it is so. For example, if I happened to put you in the low bucket, I might have evaluated you wrong or the tests did not show much of your skill, then make sure to outline why you deserve that salary increase with good reason. As a quick example, if the industry average in where you are is $50,000 and you are offered $30,000 which is the starting for a junior, you can say that you&#x27;ve been developing for awhile with at least 5 years experience and that $50,000 would be a fair salary etc etc.
评论 #27336345 未加载
评论 #27335532 未加载
评论 #27336543 未加载
评论 #27335766 未加载
评论 #27335034 未加载
PragmaticPulpalmost 4 years ago
&gt; The question is, when they offer me with a lower rate how should I deal with the situation so that I don&#x27;t loose the position and get away with the best deal?<p>There are no guarantees in negotiation. Projecting confidence and being willing to walk away from a lowball offer will help you negotiate.<p>If you give the impression that you have no other options and that you will be taking the job even at the lower price, they will likely offer the lower price.<p>If you give the impression that you are not interested in the job unless they accept your higher price, they will be more likely to negotiate. However, they might also look for alternate candidates who are willing to accept the lower rate. This is a risk you must accept.<p>One of the best things you can do for yourself is to continue searching for other jobs until you have accepted an offer. Getting too attached to any one job will diminish your negotiating position and the other side may sense this. There will always be more job offers, so don’t sacrifice your requests just to take the first one.
评论 #27333168 未加载
评论 #27333016 未加载
fossuseralmost 4 years ago
This is the best single source of information on the topic: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;23&#x2F;salary-negotiation&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2012&#x2F;01&#x2F;23&#x2F;salary-negotiation&#x2F;</a><p>I’d just read through that.
评论 #27333193 未加载
评论 #27333150 未加载
评论 #27332770 未加载
caymanjimalmost 4 years ago
Don&#x27;t <i>think</i> that you&#x27;re worth $40&#x2F;hr, <i>know</i> that you&#x27;re worth $40&#x2F;hr. It sounds like you&#x27;re unsure, and any good business negotiator is going to pick up on that and use it to their advantage.<p>The way you know is to get paid that much already, or to have multiple firm offers for that much from other potential employers. If neither of those are true, then you don&#x27;t know what your value is, and you&#x27;re negotiating from a point of weakness. If you can&#x27;t reach that level of confidence, then the next best thing is to find out exactly what the job entails, and learn what the local market pays for that skillset. If you bring extra skills, point them out and use them to bring your price up. If you bring only a subset of those skills, use that to set expectations for future rate increases when you can prove you&#x27;ve added value.<p>It sounds like you&#x27;re guessing as to your worth, and negotiating based on the pay you want. Do the research, get competing offers, and <i>know</i> what you&#x27;re worth. Be prepared to explain to a potential employer how you arrived at the number. It&#x27;s the only way to get paid fairly.
tboyd47almost 4 years ago
You yourself said you pitch too high deliberately in the start, expecting some haggling.<p>If $30 an hour pleases you, then don&#x27;t mess it up by getting greedy.<p>If there are other issues with the job that you haven&#x27;t told us about, bring those issues up and perhaps they will go higher.<p>The way negotiation works is by joining people with different expectations. It&#x27;s not a contest or a battle of wits you have to &quot;win.&quot; For them $30 an hour is great; for you, it is great. That sounds like a successful deal to me.
评论 #27333156 未加载
mathattackalmost 4 years ago
It’s all about who has the better 2nd option. How long will it take them to find someone else like you at the rate they want to pay? How long will it take you to find the pay you want somewhere else?<p>The best thing you can do is find another alternative at the rate you want. Then you can say, “I want to work for you. You are my first choice. Just please match my other offer.”<p>The other offer shows you are coming from a position of strength, and validated your market price.
评论 #27336049 未加载
aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzAalmost 4 years ago
1. Try to get them to throw out the first number. You never know, they might offer more than you would have asked for. (This isn’t always possible, especially for entry-level jobs.)<p>2. Always <i>politely</i> reject the first offer.<p>Then make a specific counteroffer, don’t just say “More money, please.” Give a specific, reasonable-sounding justification. It doesn’t even have to be that great.<p>“I am excited by the opportunity to join $COMPANY as a $ROLE. It is directly in-line with my career path, and I’m confident that I will bring my skills and enthusiasm to this role. However, based on my research into prevailing industry wages&#x2F;salaries in our region, I believe $X is more appropriate for someone with my educational background and level of experience.”<p>3. Ask to see the entire compensation package, not just the wage&#x2F;salary.<p>Stock options&#x2F;RSUs? Employee stock purchase plan? What kind of health insurance do they have? How many paid holidays? Vacation policy?
quickthrower2almost 4 years ago
This is an eternal question. I’m not great at this but one thing that’s helped me is to have more than one job offer, then go with the best. By having multiple offers you can see what the market can bear.<p>This then of course needs to be managed - you need those offers to come in about the same time.<p>A lot depends on your circumstances but I’d counter with reasons that you are special and don’t budge on the price. A 33% haircut is a lot!<p>For example “unlike most other developers I make a solid habit of providing end of day progress reports with re-estimates if there have been problems or things were easier than expected, this makes it a lot easier to manage me as you can see my progress without chasing me up”<p>And $40&#x2F;h is a bargain for the US company and most likely they pay local people double or triple for the same job. But I get a lot of companies are playing the “what’s YOUR cost of living game”, so they pay less for offshore because capitalism. Some aren’t - so get multiple offers.
gmanisalmost 4 years ago
Can I give you a honest opinion since I was in a similar situation some time ago? Just take the $30-35 whatever offer they give and do the best work you can.<p>In the long run, if you’re good, they will come around and you can get a better deserved rate.<p>Having said that, $30 is a great hourly rate for South Asia (I’m from there), and will mean a lot of quick financial buffer and it helps stress wise.<p>We aren’t in US and it’s better to accept our reality. If the work culture isn’t what you are happy with, you can always use this experience and interview again in 6 months.
评论 #27333329 未加载
评论 #27333257 未加载
piyu_shalmost 4 years ago
They already expect you negotiating the offer that&#x27;s why they lowballed on your expectations. 40 to 30 is already 1&#x2F;4th of a cut in negotiations.<p>Just call them up and say all the nice things like great company, thanks for taking time, but then start counting your strengths and finally say that I think I bring a lot more value and these were my expectations and please think and talk about this internally and let me know.<p>They will most probably come back with a higher number.
musicalealmost 4 years ago
Here&#x27;s how my salary negotiation usually goes:<p>&quot;So yeah, your interviews were great and we&#x27;d like to move forward. What are your salary requirements? (By the way, we pay really well!)&quot;<p>&quot;Can you tell me what the position pays? It wasn&#x27;t clear from the job listing.&quot;<p>&quot;Hahahah, right. No, you must give us a number or else!&quot;<p>&quot;OK, well if you look at similar positions at [company x, y and z] they pay in this range.&quot;<p>&quot;Hahahah, right. No way we could possibly pay in that range. We were thinking [small percentage of entry-level salary.] Goodbye.&quot;<p>&quot;Yeah, there&#x27;s no way that could possibly work for me either. Thanks anyway.&quot;
zczcalmost 4 years ago
Read &quot;Ten Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer&quot; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;haseebq.com&#x2F;my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;haseebq.com&#x2F;my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer...</a><p>Discussion (two weeks ago): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27160934" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27160934</a>
redshirtrobalmost 4 years ago
One strategy I&#x27;ve used is to bake a raise into the negotiation. This raise should automatically kick in when the company reaches some measurable goal (MRR, ARR, MAU, whatever...not profit, not VC funding) or a certain amount of time has elapsed. The &#x27;or&#x27; is important here as the time component should reflect your worst-case expectation for getting the raise.<p>There are a couple important things to keep in mind here:<p>1. You have to trust the other party to some extent. You have to be willing to believe they&#x27;ll be up-front about the metrics and willing to execute the raise.<p>2. You have to be willing to work at the lower rate at least until your time component kicks in. Despite any growth projections, do not count on meeting the first criterion before the time component.<p>Let&#x27;s use your situation as an example. You&#x27;d like to get to $35&#x2F;hr, but you&#x27;re willing to work at $30&#x2F;hr. You&#x27;ve already anchored $40&#x2F;hr so negotiating a follow-up raise to $35 should be doable.<p>Let&#x27;s assume the company has 500k MAU. You might suggest a raise to $38&#x2F;hr when the company reaches 1MM MAU or after six months of FTE.<p>If they&#x27;re not willing to engage in this level of negotiation, that&#x27;s fine. You&#x27;ve lost very little in terms of leverage and you can still take a more traditional approach.<p>If they are will to engage, then you have a few more knobs to turn in the negotiation process.<p>Of course the main risk is they&#x27;ll renege on the contract, but that&#x27;s always a risk (I&#x27;m assuming this is an at-will contract). You should be prepared for that. But, if they&#x27;re an ethical employer and you do a good job, I bet they&#x27;ll be willing to pay a bit more per hour to keep someone who now has a decent amount of domain knowledge and proven themselves to be competent and reliable.
demarqalmost 4 years ago
&gt; so that I don&#x27;t loose the position<p>The negotiation is over if you are not willing to walk away.
评论 #27335507 未加载
jrockwayalmost 4 years ago
I feel like the comments are fixated on a particular number. It&#x27;s true, $30&#x2F;hour is insultingly low for a software engineer. But, it&#x27;s a data point. That&#x27;s your current value, because that&#x27;s what someone is willing to pay. You can say &quot;yes&quot; and start getting $30 every hour, right now. Writing this HN post, $0&#x2F;hour. Reading this HN post, $0&#x2F;hour. Saying yes to that offer, $30&#x2F;hour! Regardless of whether you accept, you can interview at other places, and use that guaranteed price as an anchoring point. You can probably get $40&#x2F;hour from someone else, and now that guaranteed price has gone up. You don&#x27;t really have to negotiate because there&#x27;s a forgone conclusion. Company A that pays you $30&#x2F;hour can be told &quot;company B offered $40&#x2F;hour&quot;. They can match or you can walk -- you&#x27;re guaranteed that $40&#x2F;hour no matter what.<p>You&#x27;re not really in power if you can&#x27;t walk away from the negotiation with what you want. All these power plays to set the first number, or to talk about your value to the company, etc. don&#x27;t have an inevitable conclusion. They could end with &quot;that was a really moving speech and you&#x27;re absolutely right that we should pay you $200&#x2F;hour, welcome aboard&quot;, but most of the time they end with &quot;great speech, anyway $30&#x2F;hour is our final offer&quot;. If you don&#x27;t have the option to say no and go make what you think you&#x27;re worth, they win.<p>Finally, if you&#x27;re really 10x more valuable than any other employee at the company you&#x27;re interviewing at, you can probably just put them out of business in 6 months. I never hear of this happening, so maybe we&#x27;re all not quite as great as we think we are.
评论 #27343770 未加载
mlacalmost 4 years ago
No one here is mentioning this, and you can only say it if you’re truly good and this is the truth: “I believe I will bring much more than $40 an hour in value to the company, so this will be a good opportunity for both of us.”<p>Yeah, they may be negotiating with other people, but if you are the best candidate then it would be stupid to save one or two dollars an hour to go with someone who is less well suited for the job. Then they hire the wrong person, they’ve now wasted 3 months of wages and were set back by 3 months, and will need to hire someone again, and you may not be available then.<p>They may have hard caps, and if they do, they may say “look, the most we can do for this job is $35 an hour”. Take it if you’re happy with it, and don’t mention salary again - put up work that justifies your wage.<p>People need to frame the conversation in what value you bring to the company, not what you’re costing the company to be employed. If you weren’t bringing in greater value to the company than your cost, you would be fired. How much of that added value that you can take home is what is determined through negotiation.
kyproalmost 4 years ago
In my experience it&#x27;s very unlikely you&#x27;ll lose the offer for negotiating a higher salary, although to be clear I&#x27;m basing this on my experience with applying for positions here in the UK.<p>In the past I&#x27;ve just been very clear about what I&#x27;m looking for because the reality is if you don&#x27;t get what you&#x27;re looking for you&#x27;re likely to look elsewhere eventually and if they like you enough to want to bring you onboard presumably they don&#x27;t want you to leave in 12 months because you can get slightly extra pay elsewhere. Recruiting is expensive for companies. If they&#x27;re sensible they won&#x27;t mind paying slightly more to ensure you&#x27;re fully commited.<p>If you applied through a recruitor they are normally willing to help you negociate the best salary, but I&#x27;d advice against doing this where you can. In my experience recruitors are quite good at negociating salary, but I prefer doing it myself to avoid miscommunication.<p>Personally I would just tell them that you feel $30&#x2F;hour is a fair wage and that this is what you be able to get elsewhere. In the past I&#x27;ve framed it like this:<p><pre><code> &quot;I really want to work for this company, but from experience I know without a competetive salary I&#x27;m more likely to move on if something else comes along. If you can go to $30&#x2F;hour, or at least agree to a pay review in [X] months I feel I would be fully committed to this role.&quot; </code></pre> They won&#x27;t always agree to what you&#x27;re asking, but in my experience they will always at least counter offer. Sometimes larger companies simply don&#x27;t have authority to go as high you would like because of pay brackets and in these cases they may try to offer other incentives like a work laptop, remote working, etc. If they&#x27;re unwilling to negociate or reassure you that they will continue to reassess your pay I&#x27;d consider this a red flag.
gooeykabukialmost 4 years ago
In any negotiation, your best bet is having leverage. In this scenario that would be other offers at the rate you would like or other benefits&#x2F;flexibility.<p>In terms of framing, instead of saying you&#x27;re in S. Asia and $30&#x2F;hr is a big deal, you could figure out a rough $ value of your work to the company. In this case it&#x27;s clearly more than $30, but is it $100 or $300 or $500? Having that clarity in your mind and articulating it to potential clients is going to be super helpful in the future, and change how you see yourself and sell yourself to clients.<p>Finally, you may want to invest in building your negotiating experience. I would start with the Appendix: Negotiating one sheet and ideally read and practice what&#x27;s mentioned in Never Split the Difference: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B08W57YLHR&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;dp&#x2F;B08W57YLHR&#x2F;</a>.<p>Good luck!
offtop5almost 4 years ago
100% unless you have another offer or otherwise don&#x27;t need the job, don&#x27;t counter.<p>Don&#x27;t let perfect become the enemy of good.
misiti3780almost 4 years ago
When negotiating salary, always throw the first figure, and make it higher than you expect. It&#x27;s called anchoring (read about it in Thinking Fast and Slow). It is a lot easier to come down to 120-&gt;100&#x2F;hr then it is to come up from 50-&gt;100&#x2F;hr.<p>This can be applied to selling&#x2F;buying a home and a lot of other things.
评论 #27335127 未加载
评论 #27333074 未加载
Youdenalmost 4 years ago
Others have pointed out that your main point in negotiation is that you bring $X in value to the company so you should be paid something based on $X but I think there are some other questions to be resolved too:<p>- Does the company _need_ $X in value? That is, perhaps you&#x27;re overqualified for the position and it&#x27;s in their interests to employ a cheaper developer. You might need to convince them that they really do need (and need to pay for) the skills you have.<p>- Is your desired hourly rate competitive globally? If they&#x27;re looking at remote developers, perhaps you could be undercut by somebody in India or Eastern Europe or even somebody in your own country.<p>- What is the position worth to _you_? If you reject their offer, what does it cost you? What&#x27;s the delta between your current earnings and their proposal? How easy is it for you to find another job and do you expect similar pay?
CapitalistCartralmost 4 years ago
You can suggest you&#x27;d accept the &quot;lower&quot; wage in return for some other options: more flexible hours, more vacation (paid or unpaid), access to an electric car charger, etc. Whatever makes sense for you. This allows both sides to gracefully accept the trade.
LatteLazyalmost 4 years ago
The key to all negotiations is to avoid &quot;you vs them&quot;. Don&#x27;t engage in an arguement over money, ask &quot;what would it take for you to justify paying me the extra&quot;?<p>Your partner in the negotiation (note, partner not adversery) has a whole bunch of worries NOT connected to the dollar amount: will you fit in (will he look bad if you don&#x27;t), will you leave too soon, will you phone it in, will you be reliable, will you refuse $X&#x2F;hr (will he look bad if you don&#x27;t AND will he look bad if he pays you more than that).<p>You&#x27;re job is to find out what he is concerned about and then deal with those concerns. That allows him to pay you extra. You&#x27;re working together on this.<p>In my second job in tech I had two issues: I wanted about 10% more cash and I wanted more time off.<p>I knew they had had issues with staff turnover. So I suggested delaying the higher pay and split it in two raises: one wasn&#x27;t until I&#x27;d been there 6 months and the rest at 12 months. So I got a 20% raise, more than I actually wanted, just by dealing with their bigger concern.<p>I got the raises in writing of course.<p>For your case, what do you need to do to be worth the extra $&#x2F;h? Presumably the CTO wants you to reach certain milestones so ask them to be specific, and tie things to that. Maybe if you had qualification Y he would feel happier justifying the higher rate. So if the company pays half you could do that in your spare time right?<p>The added advantage of this is that it makes it really hard to say no. He sees you as a reasonable person, willing to work with him, able to give as well as take etc. He doesn&#x27;t want to look petty or uncooperative in front of whoever else is involved. So he will also make offers.<p>Don&#x27;t expect to get everything you want or to get it immediately. You won&#x27;t. But also remember you will regret not at least asking.<p>There are a bunch of &quot;tricks&quot; (really just tips eg &quot;don&#x27;t name a number first&quot;) you should Google but the overall mindset is much more important.
busterarmalmost 4 years ago
I know not the advice you&#x27;re looking for but this thread makes me sad. For those wages, even at what your initial ask, it&#x27;s impossible to get good developers in the US unless there are extenuating circumstances (someone&#x27;s first job, etc).<p>This company thinks you are worth less just because of where you&#x27;re from and not what skills you bring to the table. If they offter you something you will take, accept it, but keep in mind that this company is actively looking to exploit you and your situation and likely will not treat you well.
评论 #27333220 未加载
评论 #27336393 未加载
评论 #27335771 未加载
评论 #27332939 未加载
评论 #27332969 未加载
subhroalmost 4 years ago
Here is my take.<p>1. If what you ask for was completely out of budget, they would not have spent time interviewing you.<p>2. If you are happy with $30 but still quoted $40, and now you accept $30, you are opening a can of worms. It means, you CAN and WILL be pushed around financially as long as you are in the company.<p>3. If you have faith in your skills, walk away. You will always find another company willing to pay you the money you ask for, as long as it is realistic.<p>If I was in your place, I would have walked away if it was a penny under $40.
ElectricMindalmost 4 years ago
I am thinking this strategy. If anyone thinks, this is horrible please let me know.<p>1) I will create my bare minimum number below which I will not accept for X company.<p>2) I will ask company after successful interview : &quot;What is the maximum you can give - final number?&quot;<p>3) If that is number is less than 1) , end of discussion. I find another job. Not wasting any time<p>4) If 2 is slightly greater than 1, I will try to get better number by medium negotiation<p>5) If 2 is way greater than 1, I accept offer. Done<p>Did I miss something?
评论 #27400485 未加载
yewenjiealmost 4 years ago
I have a similar question -<p>If I am applying for a remote position, is it justifiable to ask for the average salary of the country the company is incorporated at, even if living cost in current country is much cheaper? I know that some remote first companies (such as Gitlab) has a complex salary calculator which takes into account all sorts of things, while some companies (like oxide.computer) pays a flat compensation for any place on earth.
评论 #27332862 未加载
评论 #27332831 未加载
rrrrrrrrrrrryanalmost 4 years ago
Man, there&#x27;s some bad advise here.<p>&quot;I&#x27;m very eager to start, and can accept the offer immediately for $X&#x2F;hr, but if this is the best you can do I&#x27;ll need Y days to get back to you.&quot;<p>If you phrase it this way, there&#x27;s basically zero chance they&#x27;ll revoke the offer they&#x27;ve already extended - it&#x27;ll just make them a tiny bit worried they&#x27;ve lowballed you and think you might be entertaining other options.
crackercrewsalmost 4 years ago
Your location probably will be one factor in the offer you receive. They will assume that your other options may not be as good as someone who is located in more expensive areas. Ideally you would show your hourly rate for past projects or other offers you have now.<p>That will show that they can&#x27;t pay you based on your living situation. Instead they have to pay you on the rate you can otherwise get in the market.
sys_64738almost 4 years ago
There’s a reason they’re negotiating rate with you whereby they want to hire but could also have another they’re negotiating with in parallel. It depends on the value of the position to you. Sometimes they have a budget to fund the position so they genuinely can’t meet your request. But if they’re close to your number they can often figure a way to make it work.
spaetzleesseralmost 4 years ago
When people start whining about your salary expectations the first thing to do is to make them state their expectations. If they don’t give you a number that means they want to bully you by making you feel insecure. This is a disrespectful tactic and it’s almost guaranteed that working there will be an unhappy experience.
thisismyswampalmost 4 years ago
If you can&#x27;t walk out of the deal, you&#x27;re not negotiating a salary - but rather the terms of your servitude.<p>So the first step is to get into a position where you can negotiate.<p>Once you&#x27;re there, ask for a number that would make you excited to go to work. This means higher pay the more boring a job is to you.
mettamagealmost 4 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11830598" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11830598</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fearlesssalarynegotiation.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fearlesssalarynegotiation.com&#x2F;</a>
评论 #27334951 未加载
stephc_int13almost 4 years ago
General tip when negotiating: never ask more than 50% of what the other party had in mind before you talked.<p>Asking too much is a rookie mistake, you can quickly look like a clown if you do.<p>Do your homework, you can&#x27;t negotiate blindly, you need to understand the market and the current trends.
评论 #27333067 未加载
评论 #27332942 未加载
评论 #27332926 未加载
excitednumberalmost 4 years ago
My 2c: never name the price first. If they undercut you, act extremely shocked. always ask for higher than you&#x27;re willing to settle for.<p>Ask for things in the margins at the last minute. Another vacation day. An upgrade on some ergonomic equipment. Etc.
评论 #27332908 未加载
评论 #27332796 未加载
评论 #27332819 未加载
soorajchandranalmost 4 years ago
There are some nice resources to understand Remote salaries here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiny.school&#x2F;skills&#x2F;salary-negotiations" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tiny.school&#x2F;skills&#x2F;salary-negotiations</a>
varispeedalmost 4 years ago
Just because $30&#x2F;h is a lot in your country it doesn&#x27;t mean you should get yourself exploited. If you really have the skill, then you have very very valuable asset and you would want to sell it at appropriate price.
bostonsrealmost 4 years ago
I normally go with a range, not a specific number. I would be happy if I made between x and y. This allows you to set the actual minimum and give a higher max than you expect. Normally, they will pick a number in between.
评论 #27335133 未加载
Trias11almost 4 years ago
US employers value reliability, communication, discipline and willingness to accomodate US time zones.<p>You may say that lower rate developers will give them lower quality of above. Which is true.
dcyphernullalmost 4 years ago
The fact that you accept means you don’t value yourself. You know they pay $85 in the USA and the only reason they’re going to South Asia is they know you have no balls to stand up for yourself with. So not only do you screw over an American taking that pathetically low salary, you screw yourself by letting them keep an extra $50 for every hour you work, just because Asia... wtf?
SMAAARTalmost 4 years ago
Premise: I am a decent negotiator, I have negotiated my fair share of deals, from salaries, to buying stuff around the world markers, to VC rounds. I believe that negotiations is about leverage and not bluffing, about fairness and about negotiating&#x2F;exchanging informations.<p>Having said that, if you asked $40 and they are thinking in the $30 range, if I were in the company&#x27;s shoes I would not extend an offer, since:<p>1. if there&#x27;s too much disparity, you would not be happy (no allegiance) and you&#x27;d stil be looking for something else<p>AND&#x2F;OR<p>2. if you asked a too high fee, there&#x27;s no genuinity in your dealings&#x2F;negotiation<p>Alas, that&#x27;s me.<p>If they come back with $30 and you believe that &quot;I am from South Asia and even $30&#x2F;h is a very big deal&quot;, just take it.<p>If you want to negotiate more, just say nothing, act a bit surprised, and tell them that you&#x27;ll have to think about it. Let some time go by, anywhere between 1&#x2F;2 and 1 business day, then ask them if they could raise the offer. If they don&#x27;t... counter something higher, $33 or $35, and see how it goes, you might have to settle half way or... at $30.<p>Beware that when negotiating the other party might actually walk away from the deal.<p>When I am seeking for a job, usually I make is so that I have 2 or more offers on the table. When I am hiring someone (employee or contractor) I make sure I have 2 or 3 suitable candidates that would fulfill the position.<p>YMMV
评论 #27335317 未加载
docflabbyalmost 4 years ago
There isn&#x27;t really much to do - you&#x27;ve already concluded negotiation of salary - your choice will be take what they offer or walk.<p>Your problem is you have only just worked out you negotiated poorly.
vessenesalmost 4 years ago
Okay, cool, you are expecting an offer — congratulations — and you are trying to figure out how much you “should” get paid - i.e. what’s the market price for you, and how you’ll feel if you get offered less, and how to get the best price.<p>To figure out how much you <i>should</i> get paid, you need to understand what labor market *you* are in first. Then you’ll need to understand what labor market the company is in.<p>Just to remind you, $40&#x2F;hr for a <i>high quality</i> frontend dev is exceedingly cheap in the US. Especially if it’s truly an hourly rate, not a contractor rate. FAANG companies all in pay at least probably $165k&#x2F;yr + benefits (so call it at least $100&#x2F;hr) for a solid junior frontend dev. Startups that don’t pay that must compete with better stock offers, interesting and compelling idea &#x2F; mission &#x2F; founder team.<p>So, do you meet the standards that would let you charge this rate? Broadly speaking that means: excellent English and communication skills, ability to live and work in the US, top-tier educational background, good to very good engineering skills, and relatively young.<p>If you don’t meet this profile, then you need to look at another market to assess your own current potential. I’d probably check out fiverr, toptal and upwork right now, today, and check out what people “like you” charge on those sites. You will probably be surprised to see a really big range for frontend dev. I’m guessing $15&#x2F;hr to $225&#x2F;hr at least at upwork. What’s the difference? Quality, communication, speed of work, oh, and also the really big one - picking good customers. The best paid engineers pick great companies to work for, and you should consider this carefully while you decide what to do about an offer.<p>As a side note, you may find that people like you are typically charging 25-30&#x2F;hr on upwork, and that might help you feel good about a lower offer from the company.<p>I’m going to read between the lines from your report and say that the CTO was not lying - It sounds like they routinely hire people with your background for less than $40&#x2F;hr. As you said, you were lying (to him) when you said you’d only take $40, and I would guess that getting this offer would put you in a much better position than your local peers or vis-a-vis your current gig. So, at some level, don’t worry - your first job is to get the gig, then get the best price.<p>Given this, the first thing to say is that you should be friendly with the recruiters and get an offer, any offer. Once the company has made an offer, they will be emotionally locked in on recruiting you.<p>While you’re waiting for this offer, you should know there are three types of US companies who do this kind of outsource distributed team type recruiting - some of them provide low value technology work - usually contracting services, sometimes just bad startup ideas. Some of them provide high value technology work - better contracting or good startup ideas. Some of them are principled super high value companies (like github say). You are not being recruited by the last one. Generally I would expect that a well run “high value” company like this would have a different conversation with you than just grinding you down on price through shock, so I think you should understand you’ll likely be working for a company that has to watch its margins.<p>For instance, if the company makes $100k&#x2F;yr off each dev, that’s a very different amount of negotiating room for you than if they make $1mm&#x2F;year off each dev. You should try and figure out what situation you’re in.<p>With all this in your mind, when you get that offer, holding in your mind the fact that you can go get rolling at upwork or toptal tomorrow and if they lowball you, and you still want the job, you can just start out saying “Thanks, the offer is exciting, the company is great, I want to start tomorrow, but can you explain how I can accept this number?” And, then wait. You could ask that a few times. It’s not no. It’s just “please tell me the reasons I should accept.” You could say “The CTO said my fair rate was super high for your company; do your frontend devs ever get paid at that rate? It seems well below market to me for where the company is located.” These are powerful questions and they signal you’re thinking about your value to the company as well as the labor market.<p>Psychologically, even if they are like “25&#x2F;hr or GTFO”, you can say “Look, I’m worth more than that. Let’s do this, I’ll take $25&#x2F;hr for a two months. That’s long enough to assess me, and for me to assess you and make sure I want to continue. Make me an offer that ratchets up to $40&#x2F;hr in two months; you can let me go at the two month mark if you’re unhappy.” That doesn’t cost you anything - the company can almost certainly still just fire you regardless — but it solves the company problem: hiring in budget, and they will definitely make more than $15&#x2F;hr from you if you are any good. So, this sort of counter can be effective. And, paired with “How can I say yes to this offer which doesn’t even promise you’ll get me to a fair number ever? How can I do that?” Will make anybody but the most sociopathic of recruiters feel something.<p>Good luck!