Very interesting given one of the lesser known complications of covid can be myocarditis in otherwise healthy individuals with few or no other covid symptoms.<p>In fact, it’s likely the incidence of covid-induced myocarditis is vastly underreported given it often shows no symptoms and can only reasonably be diagnosed with a cardiac MRI which is not always widely available or advised for less-serious heart conditions.<p>I was diagnosed with myocarditis last year and despite a negative PCR test around the onset of symptoms (light-headedness, heart palpitations, fatigue) was strongly suspected to have contracted covid.<p>I was lucky enough to get my first dose of the moderna vaccine a few months back and beside a few days of increased heart palpitations I’ve had no trouble as far as I’m aware, does make me wonder about getting that second dose though.
The interesting table with absolute numbers is on page 18 of [0]. Expected and observed cases are cases of myocarditis / pericarditis here. Crude rate is the number of cases per 1 million administered doses. Use landscape mode if you are reading this from a mobile device, the table is narrow enough for that.<p><pre><code> Age group Doses Crude Expected Observed
administ. rate cases cases
12–15 yrs 134,041 22.4 0–1 2
16–17 yrs 2,258,932 35.0 2–19 79
18–24 yrs 9,776,719 20.6 8–83 196
</code></pre>
[0] (PDF) <a href="https://www.fda.gov/media/150054/download" rel="nofollow">https://www.fda.gov/media/150054/download</a>
Anecdote: I had this reaction to the 2nd dose of the Pfizer vaccine, saw a cardiologist and she mentioned that she’s been seeing this quite a bit after the second dose. Have had to lay low for a month, but it seems like the symptoms are finally passing.
My mother-in-law died 9 days ago, after being on life-support for 2 weeks. All following a sudden onset cardiac arrest 3 hours after getting her second Pfizer shot. She had a fever from the shot, was sitting in the living room watching a movie with family, and her heart suddenly stopped. She was healthy and in her early 60's. The medical team, after a week, concluded it was likely vaccine induced, and reported it to VAERS.<p>A neighbor of mine, who is 35 year old male, had an almost exactly similar event. Because he was younger, he survived. His medical team also reported to VAERS, and the Mayo clinic is researching it.<p>The vaccine is generally safe, and you should get it if you aren't immune to COVID. That being said, the effort to prevent vaccine hesitancy has suppressed media reporting on these events, understandably. They are likely more common than we think, but still relatively rare.<p>MRNA is going to be a revolutionary technology, but we should be honest about the fact that there are going to be some individuals who will experience some extremely nasty side-effects.
I definitely had this: got the first shot and felt confident, cocksure that I would have no symptoms at all being healthy and young.
Woke up during the night ~8 hours after the first shot feeling a little out of breath, with strong and almost painful heartbeats. I chalked it up to being stressed, but found it strange as I had zero reasons to be stressed that particular week. I connected the dots the next day when I still had this feeling, and talked to a doctor in the family who said it was probably heart inflammation, and actually not that uncommon after the vaccine or covid infection.<p>I'm still glad I got vaccinated, but given that heart disease is the #1 cause of death worldwide, I'm surprised the ramifications of heart inflammation aren't taken more seriously (if the heart was permanently damaged in a small way, I'd expect it to manifest many years later).
Dr. Bret Weinstein, Dr. Robert Malone (invented mRNA tech) and Steve Kirsch had a most fascinating discussion on youtube that touches on this, but touches on much bigger direct and indirect issues as well. I'd urge people to watch: <a href="https://youtu.be/-_NNTVJzqtY?t=591" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/-_NNTVJzqtY?t=591</a>
Slightly off topic, but it is quite interesting that US media very consistently uses "Pfizer" if the news is good and some variant of "Pfizer/Biontec" if the news is bad. The opposite holds of course for the German press, which addresses the vaccine as "Biontec" when the news is good.
May wife got severe joint pain like arthritis across both arms and in other parts of her body after the Pfizer vax. She's getting several tests done and has been doing physical therapy.
It was several months ago and it doesn't seem to be getting better.<p>Her PT said she's been seeing lots of these.<p>She never had covid. I hope she gets better, it's been really difficult.
This is reporting 283 diagnosed cases versus 10-102 expected which is still a very small number relative to vaccine doses distributed. Also, causality is still not proven. Given the sample it could be that at least some of these are steroid users as that is also associated with myocarditis. Investigation is still very much just beginning, and in any case the numbers are so small that the vaccines still appear to be quite safe and very much safer than many other activities such as driving.
This is based on VAERS data. I encourage the curious to look at this data. I did. I would characterize its quality as so poor that probably no conclusions at all can be drawn from it. And I usually find myself defending the use of noisy and/or small data in similar situations.
Did anyone else get really bad side effects? I felt awful after my first shot and now I an currently recovering from my second shot and feel even worse. I don’t think I have ever felt this bad from an illness.
I think that many people who did not have heart issues before don't know what to look for or how it feels.<p>Personally, I did not know I had palpitations until I googled it later. Similarly, I suspect, that some kids/young adults may have had symptoms but don't report.
Pretty sure i had this after my second dose of moderna. On the day of my second dose I had a very unique piercing heart pain i never experienced before, thought i was gonna die. Had some arrhythmia/palpitations as well, but didn't go to the doctor or report it, I'm sure many more people experienced this without reporting it, just hope it doesn't cause permanent damage. (31, male)
"cardiac MRI which is not always widely available". This is mainly because the views of the heart are super hard to get (exams are done mostly at specialized centers like Stanford)!<p>I actually ended up doing my PhD on automating the cardiac view planes using deep learning.
After reading various comments here, I think I might have experienced this after my first dose (Moderna). Noticed some slight chest pain the day after during my ride and my heart rate was about 10bpm higher than normal.<p>Never had any noticeable symptoms after, please take this with a grain of salt because I do cycle a lot (~2-400 miles a month) and I'm not representative of the general population.
Crazy coincidence. I'm in my late 30s, now 3 days out from my first dose of Pfizer.<p>I woke up kinda uncomfortable today. Like I'd already had too much coffee just getting out of bed. Within an hour I felt significanty stressed, and I had vague pressure throughout my upper chest, both sides. I was convinced it was my first ever panic attack since it didn't feel like a life ending threat.<p>No acute or vague pains either. My heart rate was elevated like I was currently on a pleasant walk (I was laying on the floor wondering what to do). Apple Watch didn't think anything was worth alerting about.<p>The peak of the "event" lasted about 20 minutes, and I went for an actual walk once I calmed down a bit. I felt comfortable enough to join my personal trainer for a pretty heavy workout a couple hours later. No issues during the workout, but a few hours post-workout now, I don't feel the usual calm/tired feeling. Still kinda feeling like I've had too much caffeine.<p>I'm now wondering if this is what happened to me.
When looking about heart inflammation, some Youtube videos popped up.<p>A UK doctor talking about heart inflammation of young men in Israel a month ago, and an update two weeks ago:
<a href="https://youtu.be/uw2xmtd8dkA" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/uw2xmtd8dkA</a>
Something I wonder about:<p>What if inflammation like this is common in many illnesses and simply goes undetected? A previously unseen symptom because no one was paying attention and small illnesses like colds don't receive the level of scrutiny that Covid-19 received.
Actual numbers from the article:
---
There were 283 observed cases of heart inflammation after the second vaccine dose in those aged 16 to 24 in the VAERS data. That compares with expectations of 10-to-102 cases for that age range based on U.S. population background incidence rates, the CDC said.
---<p>The population for this is 130 million people who had one or both doses.<p>So, the chances might increase from one in a million (or possibly one in ten million) to as much as two in a million.<p>OK. I don't think about one in a million risks, even though they happen to about 8,000 people a day. It's not reasonable.
The response to this, of course, will be "well the risks of the virus are still higher than those of the vaccine so you should still get it," but I think that misses an important point here. In the absence of long-term safety data on these vaccines, we have engaged in <i>a priori</i> deduction instead: "there's no known mechanism by which mRNA could cause any complications, so it should be fine." The appearance of any significantly higher than expected rate of complications potentially calls that reasoning into question.
The crazy thing about this is even if 75% of people who got the vaccine dropped dead tomorrow, the other 25% would still be <i>convinced</i> it had absolutely nothing to do with the vaccine.
I can't verify the accuracy of this video (Dr Malone does seem accomplished but also a history of what appears some victimization in the vaccine world). I haven't been able to find any critique or clarification on the claims re toxicity of spike proteins in the body. <a href="https://youtu.be/Du2wm5nhTXY" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/Du2wm5nhTXY</a>
Adding my anecdata: I’m a male in my mid-20’s, am decently fit with a slower-than-average heart rate, and have a benign congenital heart condition. First shot was fine apart from a sore arm, second shot forced me to take a day off. Smooth sailing since then, but occasionally do notice palpitations, which I chalk up to stress, but I’d be lying if I said this didn’t make me a bit weary.
I got J&J even after the negative coverage. It uses the same delivery method (a modified adenovirus) as the vaccine used in China, which has already been tested on billions of people. I was skeptical about the mRNA mechanism of action from the start.<p>I wonder how much our lifespans will be reduced by these vaccines?
Watch this yet to be verified video re toxicity of the spike protein in the Covid mRNA vaccines <a href="https://youtu.be/Du2wm5nhTXY" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/Du2wm5nhTXY</a>
mRNA vaccines are likely the future of vaccinations, but I continued with the older and battle tested vaccination route (whichever provider was offering the 1 dose vaccine).<p>I know these are cases are very rare, but I would like to do my part in minimizing any potential risks.
Women ofte report heart problems as nausea, differently than men, who report it as pain.<p>So this side effect may be under-reported or misdiagnosed in women, so not male-only.
Can the government present anything in a useful manner?<p>The most important information, i.e. if the young men engaged in heavy sports right after getting the vaccine, is missing.<p>Heavy sports is obviously also dangerous while recovering from the flu.<p>But the disorganized chaotic government presentation doesn't give any useful information.
Has anyone looked at whether the mental stress or anxiety induced by putting someone through the process of getting the shot could be maybe be a reason for triggering this? Not the vaccine itself, but the whole routine of line up, answer questions about allergies and other risk factors, then waiting to get the shot, then having to sit there waiting for symptoms to show up... Not to mention people don't like needles either.<p>I can imagine the heart rate during this ordeal is way higher than normal and could trigger inflammation.<p>Not saying that the science here is invalid, just actually curious to know how this gets ruled out.