TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Everyone Has JavaScript, Right?

68 pointsby 0xedbalmost 4 years ago

15 comments

throwaway284534almost 4 years ago
These people march into every JavaScript discussion, carrying the same cross on their back since the first day Netscape supported AJAX. They lament what a travesty the internet has become thanks to this mongrel language which broke the purity of HTML.<p>What really gets me is this kind of Good Samaritan plea to developers to just “do the right thing” as if every line of JavaScript was paid in orphan tears and puppy blood.<p>It’s 2021 and at this point it really feels like they’re begging the question: “Sites that require JavaScript are not as good as sites that don’t because they can’t operate without JavaScript.” We already know that. It’s well understood what makes a site feel slow. Progressive enhancement is an ideal situation — it’s just not something that every organization prioritizes. And for some web apps, server side rendering adds significant overhead to problems like caching, authentication, and multi platform compatibility.<p>If you’re honestly invested in progressive enhancement, contribute to open source tools that make it easier to ship.
评论 #27485074 未加载
评论 #27484949 未加载
评论 #27484839 未加载
评论 #27484848 未加载
评论 #27485071 未加载
评论 #27487801 未加载
评论 #27485041 未加载
评论 #27485227 未加载
g_palmost 4 years ago
An interesting blog post from the UK Government digital team on progressive enhancement, suggesting from their findings that 0.9% of visits to a national government site are from people without functioning JavaScript, who haven&#x27;t intentionally turned it off.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;technology.blog.gov.uk&#x2F;2016&#x2F;09&#x2F;19&#x2F;why-we-use-progressive-enhancement-to-build-gov-uk&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;technology.blog.gov.uk&#x2F;2016&#x2F;09&#x2F;19&#x2F;why-we-use-progres...</a><p>And the original research is available at<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gds.blog.gov.uk&#x2F;2013&#x2F;10&#x2F;21&#x2F;how-many-people-are-missing-out-on-javascript-enhancement&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gds.blog.gov.uk&#x2F;2013&#x2F;10&#x2F;21&#x2F;how-many-people-are-missi...</a>
评论 #27484618 未加载
axiosgunnaralmost 4 years ago
Nice list of rare edge cases.<p>Worrying about somebody using „Chrome data saver mode“ before your startup gets 100k hits per month means to me that your focus is completely off.<p>Instead, perhaps improve your core product and talk to actual users today?
评论 #27484988 未加载
评论 #27485010 未加载
评论 #27485012 未加载
habiburalmost 4 years ago
As the world has moved to HTTPS everywhere, ISPs injecting JS is a non-issue. They can&#x27;t as they can&#x27;t see what&#x27;s in there. They can&#x27;t even block JS.<p>It&#x27;s browser plugins right now -- the main snoopers.
评论 #27484808 未加载
leesalminenalmost 4 years ago
TFA itself concedes that we’re (generously) talking about 1% of users.<p>Until you’re in 6-digit MRR territory, this shouldn’t even cross your mind when building a Web app. There are way more important things you should be doing to your product&#x2F;business.
Wowfunhappyalmost 4 years ago
Hm, this makes me think about my personal website, which uses a fancy Javascript fade-in because I like fancy animations (and the site is partly my playground to do what I want). However, I also have a noscript stylesheet to ensure the website is functional without Javascript.<p>Does anyone know what that means for e.g. flaky mobile browsers?
评论 #27484912 未加载
k__almost 4 years ago
I&#x27;m thinking a lot about this while planning a frontend architecture for my new project.<p>Currently, I&#x27;m checking out Cloudflare Workers.<p>They&#x27;re compatible with service workers, so they might be a viable fallback solution for people without JS.
评论 #27484758 未加载
dredmorbiusalmost 4 years ago
Not all HTTP consumers are interactive web browsers.<p>Web scraping may not be <i>your</i> value proposition (or you may not think it is), but it could very well be your users&#x27;.<p>And yes, I&#x27;m that small but vocal minority that makes use of console browsers, wget and curl, and heavily disables JS in my graphical browsers for numerous reasons. Gratuitous breakage is utterly unnecessary, and that&#x27;s the point. Not that you <i>cannot use</i> JS, but that <i>functionality which is independent of JS should be supported, when JS is disabled.</i><p>Everything else misses the damned point.
tsegratisalmost 4 years ago
&gt; It’s only natural that as front-end developers we want to flex our technical skills... There’s an issue with lending more of your focus to the possibilities promised by new technology though: your focus moves away from your users.<p>&gt; Meeting our many users’ needs is number one on our list of design principles.
iamsaitamalmost 4 years ago
The people that disable Javascript are missing a whole world of interactive applications. Not every website wants to track you down and share that information with Google.
评论 #27487156 未加载
评论 #27486284 未加载
towbalmost 4 years ago
&quot;Have they switched off JavaScript? - People still do.&quot; Is that really a valid case 2021?
评论 #27484941 未加载
评论 #27484676 未加载
评论 #27484711 未加载
评论 #27484672 未加载
xet7almost 4 years ago
Is it possible, without Javascript, to have:<p>- drag drop reorder and move?<p>- accessibility?<p>- draw on top of webpage?<p>- popup menus?<p>- show&#x2F;hide sidebar?<p>Any links for examples?
评论 #27484703 未加载
评论 #27484827 未加载
评论 #27484691 未加载
评论 #27484701 未加载
kissgyorgyalmost 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t see NUMBERS attached to the claims.
tzsalmost 4 years ago
JavaScript kind of creeps up on you.<p>I don&#x27;t work on any web pages that are particularly fancy or sophisticated. The main page I work on is the ordering page I maintain (but did not write) for a small company. Their product is pretty simple--a subscription service with some downloadable software to use the service. The ordering page has a section where you can select your subscription length (monthly, quarterly, yearly) with some radio buttons and a checkbox for buying a copy of the software on CD-ROM, a section for entering your email address and billing address, a section for entering your credit card information, and a button to submit your order.<p>They really want to keep this as one page.<p>Originally I&#x27;m pretty sure they had no JavaScript on the page. That was back when we didn&#x27;t have to collect sales tax except to customers in our own state, and before the state&#x27;s tax laws made online sales based on buyer location rather than seller location. The checkout page simply showed your total without tax, and had a note that said if you were in our state we would add tax of X% where X was the sales tax at our office.<p>Later, when the state switched to buyer based taxing, I believe JavaScript was added. That message about taxes started off just saying tax would be added to in-state orders without stating the rate. When you filled in the zip code, the JavaScript would see if it was an in-state zip code and update that to mention the rate for that zip (which it got from a static table in the JS). It might have even been fancy enough to also show you the total.<p>But if you did not have JavaScript it still all worked.<p>Somewhere in there the JavaScript started doing checks for things like missing form entries and blocking submission until the user fixed them. Still worked without JavaScript.<p>When we started selling in Europe and the UK and had to collect VAT, the JavaScript got a little fancier. Now it knew the VAT rates by country so it could show the VAT before you ordered.<p>The PHP script that served the page would decide what currency you probably used based on your IP. I modified that to include a dynamically generated JavaScript table on the page that had the prices of all the products on the page in USD, EUR, and GPB, added a currency select dropdown on the page, and added JavaScript to switch all the prices and totals on the page if the user changed the currency.<p>But it still worked fine without JavaScript. You might see the prices listed in EUR say, and switch the dropdown to GPB, and your order would then be done in GBP using the GBP pricing. You just wouldn&#x27;t see the actual GBP amounts until you got the receipt page.<p>What finally stopped it working without JavaScript was a change Visa and MasterCard (and I think some others) made to what merchants have to do when accepting credit card and when storing cards for recurring or on-file billing [1].<p>You must show the total that will be charged and get approval from the user before submitting the card. You must tell them how often they will be re-billed and for how much. You must tell them what card will be billed (and re-billed). You must get positive confirmation that they have seen this information.<p>For that, we added a section at the bottom of the page that spells all that out, and has a checkbox they have to check to confirm they saw it. The ordering button does not work until that checkbox is checked.<p>As the user changes what products are selected, JavaScript is updating the total in the order summary, and updating that disclosure section at the bottom of the page. Same as they change currency. If they changed address, the JavaScript calls a tax API on the server to find the tax, and updates the page. Same if they change the credit card information. The JavaScript unchecks the acknowledgement checkbox if they make any of these kinds of changes after they acknowledged before.<p>Making that work without JavaScript would, I think, require going to a multi-page order flow which management really does not want to do. I&#x27;ve done some measurements, and everyone who has tried to order over the last two years (both real and bots up to who knows what) have had JavaScript enabled so it is pretty hard to argue that adding a separate milti-page order flow to handle non-JS people is worth the development time.<p>And so now we&#x27;ve got a page that requires JavaScript. No one set out to require JavaScript, but here we are.<p>[1] Well...they <i>said</i> they were making this change. They originally announced it, then when it was close to going into effect many payment processors said they weren&#x27;t ready and Visa pushed it back a year. The payment processor we use got it supported by that second deadline, and we got our site and backend changed, but others were still not ready and Visa delayed it again. I&#x27;m not actually sure if it ever went into effect or is still being pushed back.
ClearAndPresentalmost 4 years ago
When I see on an empty white page:<p>&gt; You need to enable JavaScript to run this app.<p>I know I have no interest in your project as you have no interest in communicating with me, only funnelling me into your recently launched startup.