I think a lot of the replies in the thread so far have focused on tech (understandably, this is HN after all) but that's missing something obvious - the 4 day week would apply to everyone.<p>In tech it's very likely someone going from 5 days to 4 days could still achieve the same amount of actual work. As other commenters have said, many tech workers don't do productive work all the time they're present. Retail workers, factory workers, people who fill in the holes in roads, telephone support people, etc aren't contending with pointless meetings and busy work though. They can't do 40 hours of work in 32 hours by removing some of the hours they're not really working. What they do doesn't compress like that.<p>Consequently looking at this from the context of tech workers is far less interesting. The Japanese government isn't saying "Let's get rid of pointless meetings and busy work!" In tech removing the pointless nonsense isn't actually reducing the amount of real work people do. Instead, Japan is saying "Our country is wealthy enough and advanced enough that our people can <i>actually</i> do less work." That's fascinating.<p>If you see this as "removing the wasteful time spent on things that aren't useful like meetinga" then you've missed the point. It is that, but it's much, much more than that too.
It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, goofing off on the internet, all to maintain the pretense of office culture.<p>Companies that shuffle things up to prioritize productivity over simply showing up will be set to succeed over the next generation.
The social contract in Japan was that you’d give your life to your employer in exchange for a fair wage and stable employment until you retired. Neither of those things are true now. Wages are low and companies either ignore their legal obligations or hire people as contractors, who have less rights than full time “employees”.<p>Now, many people, especially women* and young people are finding that it’s possible to run a small business for 3-4 days a week and make more money than an entry or even mid-level full time office job.<p>So, I think Japan finally enforcing rules against abusive behavior at the workplace and pushing for a 4-day week, if it really happens, is a reflection of where society is at right now.<p>*Women have a low wage ceiling because they are expected to quit and have children at any time.
Of all places, that this is coming from Japan is astounding. The culture of "company man" in Japan is notorious for essentially absorbing and erasing the line between family life and company life for an employee.<p>There are horror stories floating around on the internet that explain how many stay in office, often later than their boss, just to look like they are working hard.<p>And I have experienced it first hand. Went to Mitsubishi factory in Takasago on a company visit. I asked the employees there, why do you stay late, and they answered, everyone has to stay late.<p>I genuinely believe that an alternative to the 4-day week, is to allow employees to switch off their work emails and phone calls on Friday evening. No use in having a 4 day week, when your mind-share is extended to a 6 day week.
I think more companies should (and probably will consider) 4-day maybe even 3-day workweeks as technology makes us more productive. Especially in industries that require deep thinking, the output doesn't necessarily scale with # of hours a worker puts in, not every hour is the same. I think 10 hours of highly productive work is much better than 40 hours of busy work.<p>Anecdotally, I managed to accumulate almost 300 hours of vacation time and now switched over to 3-day weeks at a big tech company for a while and even though I really enjoy my work, I feel much better this way and roughly at the same productivity, but a lot happier.
Will they let/make people to leave the office at "5PM"? and force them to take earned holidays?<p>Might as well do something about nomikai[1] while they are at it.<p>[1]<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomikai" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomikai</a>
I think people might be a little confused about what the government is telegraphing here.<p>Japanese labour regulations are very strict, in particular around hours worked. Basically all employees (yes, including engineers) need to clock in and out, the concept of a "salaried worker" doesn't really exist, although normally engineers are paid for a certain number of hours regardless if they are actually worked. Primarily it is to make sure that overtime is paid and not excessive, but I believe there are also some related to the definition of what a "full time" job is.<p>So, it sounds to me like the government is considering relaxing those definitions on minimum hours worked to make it easier for firms to adopt 4 day work week if they so choose.
Tangential, but how many of us need a dedicated work time period at all?<p>I have a 15 minute standup every day, an hour long 1 on 1 once every two weeks, and the occasional meeting where I am genuinely needed and maybe 3 hours talking to another developer.<p>I would love to convert my job into a purely objectives driven thing with the only requirement being that I am online/in the office for those specific 5 or so hours a week.<p>I will take the risk that what I think takes a week of work runs over (forcing me to work on weekends) in exchange for that kind of flexibility.
Will this be one of those Japanese quirks just like 5pm, where they say 4 day work week, but then still work 5-6 work weeks? Like sure, you can leave at 5, but do you want to be the person to leave at 5?
And yet most kids here (Japan) go to school nearly every day -- some classes on alternating Saturdays and have mandatory "club activities" nearly EVERY day including Saturdays and Sundays. Seems a bit of a mixed message going on...
I worked in Japan for a while. My contract was saying 28.5 hours per week, but I was expected to work 40 hours+. This is where I went into discussions with my boss who was very angry at me and fired me on the same say I told him that I was expecting to work the hours that were mentioned in the contract. I had to clean up the desk and leave immediatly after that meeting.<p>Then I got in touch with the officials and lawyers. Labor law IS already strong in Japan, but it is the employees who do not demand it and the employers who do not follow it. The officials are running many campaigns to advertise equality and proper working hours. Just nobody cares.<p>Long story short - I got my salary paid ouf for a couple of months and could stay in Japan. Best time of my life and this is the way you should experience Japan: live there, DO NOT work, have enough money to support a certain lifestyle.<p>Now I am back to Germany and I am happy that I have a decently paid, low stress 40 hours work week, 100% home office, many perks, I am practially unfireable, 32 holidays per year and a worker friendly corporate culture.
How about they first do away with the culture of "have to show your face in the office until 7pm and then go drinking with your colleagues until midnight, or your wife will ask why you're home so early"?
I have been working 4 days a week or less for about a decade by now. It's been the single best improvement to my quality of life. I've got to spend more time with my family, hobby projects, learning new things and simply chilling out. I will never ever ever ever work 5 days again.
I read hopeful and idealistic (I’ve the same wish and hope, by the way) comments on HN and contrast it by thinking of CEOs and CTOs not even giving this news another second; laughing at it would mean it affected them in unimaginable ways.<p>Most of these “leaders”, especially in “startups”, have very short term goals - exit, acquisition, insane funding and valuations etc.<p>It’s not that they don’t think about employees burning out or lack of their well-being. They count on it. They know exactly what’s happening and they know that that 2<x> year old burning out (literally falling ill mentally and physically) after 7 month of hell, but wrote y number of functioning APIs, was a great success!<p>And that’s just software.
I strongly suspect this has to do with Japan's low birth rate. But I would love a society where you only need to work three or four days a week. As they always say no one says on their deathbed I wish I spent more time at the office
Wouldn't it be cool if in addition to a 4 day work week, that those days could be flexible. It could actually benefit the both society and the company, as in the company is operating in some form 7 days a week for customers. And for society the 'weekend' is more flexible which improves traffic during the week and the overcrowding you typically find on saturday/sunday.
It is important to note that this announcement means that employers can opt to work for 4 days a week, with the corresponding reduction in salary. It is not reducing work week to 32h with the same salary! A similar scheme exists in the Netherlands, you are allowed to work 4 days a week AND you get paid for 4 days of work, so 80% salary.
I'm skeptical this will actually see wide adoption.<p>I don't mean to suggest this is a universal trend, but I remember being surprised to see that Tora no Ana, a comic book shop with tech company aspirations, advertised "super engineer" positions that let you work four days a week. But it turned out this was a position with higher qualifications than a normal engineer that just gave you the option of working four ten hour days instead of five eight hour ones.<p><a href="https://www.toranoana.jp/recruit/super-engineer/" rel="nofollow">https://www.toranoana.jp/recruit/super-engineer/</a><p>While the suggested four day work week here sounds like a real four days and not longer hours, I do think that managing company expectations will be difficult.
Do they get paid the same though? I mean where I live, as an employee you have the RIGHT to work part-time if you want to - 40 hours is the norm, 36 is common (either one day off every two weeks or some manage to work 10h 4 days/week), some work 32 hours. But they get paid, vacation time, bonuses etc accordingly.<p>I went to 36 hours when I started my new job, but went back to 40 this year because I can manage with working from home, and because of the pandemic there were no pay raises last year - while cost of living is spiraling upwards because of rapidly increasing housing prices.
While I would like it, unfortunately it wouldn't work for things like customer-facing positions. If the business is open from 9am to 9pm then it still needs the same level of staff coverage. The company could either reduce pay proportionately, or keep paying the same salaries (and increase hourly workers' pay proportionately) and hire more people, incurring a 20% increase in labor costs.
> Takuya Hoshino, an economist at the Dai-ichi Life Research Institute, says simply introducing a four-day workweek may not necessarily encourage employees to use their time off in a way that benefits their careers or contributes to the economy.<p>The idea shouldn't be how this benefits their career and contributes to the economy, but how the individual can live a more balanced and healthy life.
The main driver for this may be Japan's demographic implosion, as stated in the first paragraph:<p>"...improve the balance between work and life...family care".<p>A three day weekend would give the salaryman/person some time with family.<p>Other countries are making policy changes as well.
China is also planning to remove all caps on births to combat what they see as problematic demographics.
"Those who want more days off for such purposes as acquiring new skills and taking side jobs are not eligible for the program, he said."<p>Of course - why would a company want their employees to learn new skills on the side that could potentially lead to greater personal fulfillment -.-
This could make it a little more difficult to keep track of companies that have a 4 day week[0], but a good problem to have I guess!<p>[0] <a href="https://thelistofcompanies.com" rel="nofollow">https://thelistofcompanies.com</a>
I wonder if it would boost productivity
- to move to a 5-day week, instead of 7 by
- abolishing saturday and sunday
- We can have 3 days of work
- thursday & friday as weekend
Uruguay they tried that: people ended up working two jobs and feeling/looking tired on both! People will find a way, always. Just keep 40h - at least they won't try to find a 2nd job elsewhere...
I kept wondering that when we are child it's almost impossible to study 8 hours a day all the time. Why should/could we work 8 hours as adult?
This is a genius move. The problem with japan's work culture is that its very hard to change the longer work hours. The alternative is to reduce the number of working days. This becomes level playing field for everyone and so there is good chance this will work, if it becomes law.
My guess is they’ll ask employees to work 4 10 hour days, and ask them to come in for extra work on Friday and Saturday as a ‘special exception’. Of course, now the 10 hour workday is normalized, so you can extract extra time on the other days too.
> For employers, while people working four days a week may become more motivated, this may not improve their productivity enough to compensate for the lost workday.<p>But why do we have to "compensate for the lost workday"? Let's just say that at this point in history we appreciate work-life balance more than before and we'll switch to 4-day weeks with the same paycheck.
Why does the government need to be involved if employers actually get better productivity in the first place? Let employers experiment by themselves and see what works best. Another typical example of top-to-bottom leadership in Japan.
Big mistake.
It was the 5-6 day week that built modern Japan.<p>A lot of people are talking about cutting back on days everywhere.<p>But now, more than ever, is when we need to be working harder to get back to where we were before.<p>(Of course, my attitude to these things is shaped by being a business owner -- not an employee. So take with that point of view)