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How to Work Hard

1223 pointsby razinalmost 4 years ago

164 comments

helen___kelleralmost 4 years ago
When I was an undergrad at CMU, I learned how to work hard. Really hard. After having coasted through too-easy high school, I spent all day every day at CMU either programming, doing mathematics, or thinking about one of those things (to great effect: often the trick to prove a theorem would pop into my head while showering or while taking a walk). I would fall asleep while programming in the middle of the night, dream about programming, then wake up and continue programming just where I left off.<p>One thing from this essay really stuck out to me:<p>&gt; The most basic level of which is simply to feel you should be working without anyone telling you to. Now, when I&#x27;m not working hard, alarm bells go off.<p>One thing that always happened at the end of a semester is we&#x27;d have a few days after exams but before flights back home. On these days I&#x27;d typically try playing a video game (my hobby before college) and every time I would stop playing after just an hour with deep feeling of unease at the pit of my stomach. &quot;Alarm bells&quot; is exactly how I would describe it - a feeling at the core of my psyche that I have been wasting time and there must be <i>something</i> productive I should be doing or thinking about.<p>Years later, having tackled anxiety problems that had plagued me most of my life, I came to recognize that my relationship with hard work during my college years was not healthy and that this deep seated desire to do more work is not a positive thing, at least not for me.<p>I&#x27;ve since reformed my ambitions, instead of looking to start a company or get a PhD in mathematics, I&#x27;ve decided that hard work is not the love of my life and instead I should focus on my hobbies while looking for a career path that can be simultaneously fulfilling but laid back.
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rgiffordalmost 4 years ago
I worked my way through college as a mover (and came out the other side with high 5-figure debt). Many of the older guys I worked with had drug habits. I worked 16-hour days with those guys. They&#x27;d get on me for not running up stairs, for packing with too little paper around glass, for setting things down more than once. None wrote articles entitled &quot;How to Work Hard.&quot; None knew Warren Buffet as a child (see Gates). None attended the most expensive schools, if they had they certainly wouldn&#x27;t have chosen to drop out because they got bored or were unfulfilled (see Graham and Zuck). Take a look at the top 10 highest valued YC startups. All their founders came from schools with less than 10% acceptance rates.<p>Privilege is what I&#x27;m getting at. Having an income 300:1 your lowest paid employee is disturbing. Making millions or billions off speculative, debt-fueled VC is disturbing. Proselyting your brand of success is disturbing. Recommendation: every time a founder, investor or businessperson starts to wax poetic on virtue, look for an angle. Why do founders want to appear virtuous and hardworking? Why do we need that from them? How else can they justify making sometimes up to 50% of their companies entire payroll? How emotionally satisfying must it be for Graham and his ilk to tell you why they got what they have?<p>What if most of serious wealth and success is decided at birth?
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bachmeieralmost 4 years ago
&gt; It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win.<p>I can assure you, there are many kids that practice harder than Messi did when he was young. He is not a great player because of hard work, he is a great player because of luck. I know the VC thing about the importance of hard work. They love to promote hard work because that&#x27;s how they make money. It&#x27;s just plain silly to attribute Messi&#x27;s greatness to anything other than luck - both his physical abilities and the environment that taught him how to fine tune his abilities.<p>Hard work is useless without that special precise knowledge of which work you should be doing. Few young soccer players know how to practice in a way to become Messi, even if they have the right body to do it. It&#x27;s useless without being in the right environment too.<p>&gt; Now, when I&#x27;m not working hard, alarm bells go off. I can&#x27;t be sure I&#x27;m getting anywhere when I&#x27;m working hard, but I can be sure I&#x27;m getting nowhere when I&#x27;m not, and it feels awful.<p>That, my friends, is what a VC would love for you to believe. There&#x27;s nothing sincere when someone in his position writes something like this. Because hey, if you&#x27;re the 0.1% of the time that it works out, he gets rich. And if you&#x27;re the 99.9% that wastes their time (like all the kids that never play soccer at the highest levels) he loses nothing.<p>I used to enjoy PG&#x27;s writings. He&#x27;s crossed a line where he believes that the only thing good in the world is what is best for VCs.
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magicloopalmost 4 years ago
&quot;I never took a day off in my twenties&quot; (Bill Gates) quote is a misnomer because what Bill Gates considers a day-off is something where you are just lying around doing nothing, such as lying on the beach. A two week sojourn into a set of books that interested him were not considered &quot;days off&quot;. He did such activities yearly.<p>Bill Gates wasn&#x27;t in the office working a 7 day schedule for his entire 20s. So that is not the impression we should get from the quote at all. His productive time away has merit, and I have followed that attitude to reading myself, and recommend it to others.<p>It would have been better if he had said &quot;I never wasted a day in my twenties&quot; which I think would be more accurate.
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leokennisalmost 4 years ago
&gt; There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort. You can do pretty well with just two, but to do the best work you need all three: you need great natural ability and to have practiced a lot and to be trying very hard.<p>I&#x27;d like to add that it is more than fine to not do great work. If you like to spend a lot of time with your kids and tend to your vegetable patch, by all means only try hard enough to keep the job that pays for that lifestyle.<p>So, no dig on the author, but there is more than maximizing for great work. Try for a while to instead maximize for life happiness and experience how that feels for you.
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void_mintalmost 4 years ago
I came here to rip apart this post and PG for propping up hustle culture bullshit, but am actually pleasantly surprised at his takes. I would reword most of his post to be more about &quot;being engaged&quot; instead of &quot;working hard&quot;, because &quot;work&quot; has so many flavors and misconceptions.<p>&gt; My limit for the harder types of writing or programming is about five hours a day. Whereas when I was running a startup, I could work all the time. At least for the three years I did it; if I&#x27;d kept going much longer, I&#x27;d probably have needed to take occasional vacations. [5]<p>Most programmers don&#x27;t have the ability or scope to be engaged in the way that he&#x27;s talking about wrt his startup, so most programmers should stop working as soon as they&#x27;re at their &quot;productivity threshold&quot; throughout the day and have fulfilled their remaining busywork duties. I really wish tech &quot;influencers&quot; like PG would post more about that - when to put the mouse down and go for a walk or watch a movie.<p>I actually think the &quot;best&quot; take would be &quot;Every individual should work exactly as hard as they believe they should&quot;. I think it&#x27;s a reality, in that most people are unwilling to work any harder than they want to, but also I think context is probably the most important factor in terms of &quot;work&quot;, &quot;output&quot; and &quot;success&quot;. If you don&#x27;t feel like you should work hard, or don&#x27;t need to, you&#x27;re either working on something that isn&#x27;t worth your time, or you don&#x27;t feel engaged at all. Both are fine, but both also signal you should move on.<p>This post turned into kind of a ramble. Apologies.
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unklefolkalmost 4 years ago
Regarding the &quot;work hard in your 20s&quot; advice.<p>I took the approach that in your 20s you are still forming, still growing, still malleable. The experiences you have in your 20s will have a disproportionate effect on the kind of person you end up being. Therefore, you have to think about what environment, what experiences you want to foster that growth in. I would suggest optimizing for variety and new experiences is a better idea that working 80 hours weeks throughout your 20s. In your 20s, don&#x27;t just work hard, work hard at becoming the person you want to be.
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janjalmost 4 years ago
I took extra classes and worked hard in college to get a CS degree because I loved it. I was so excited to start a career because the internships were fun and exciting. I graduated in 2001 right after everything dried up. The only place hiring was Raytheon, there was no way I&#x27;d step foot back in that place to work on weapons. I asked a friend what to do, &quot;Why don&#x27;t you move to MT and snowboard&quot;, so I did. Seven years of my 20&#x27;s in MT, the first five snowboarding and climbing, the last two figuring out how to get back into tech while snowboarding and climbing. I&#x27;m now in my 40&#x27;s married to someone I met in MT with two beautiful kids and good career in tech. I don&#x27;t spend much time thinking about what I might&#x27;ve been able to achieve had I spent those years in my 20&#x27;s working hard in tech. I&#x27;m just very grateful things ended up the way they did. We need people who want to achieve great things, especially now with the urgent problems we&#x27;ve created for ourselves. But it&#x27;s just fine to not be one of those people.
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nineplayalmost 4 years ago
One of my greatest regrets is how much time I wasted on &#x27;work&#x27; in my 20s and 30s. I was an engineer, I made a comfortable salary, but I rarely took a vacation, I never traveled outside the UI, I took days off reluctantly with a vague feeling that I was letting someone down.<p>&quot;Later&quot;, I told myself. When I&#x27;m successful, when I&#x27;m stable, when I have the money to travel in style and not backpack around and stay at hostels. Then I can take a break and have the adventures I want.<p>My in-laws confirmed this attitude for me - they retired in their 50s and traveled the world. What a great life goal!<p>Guess what, life happened. Health issues. I&#x27;m never going to travel the world. All that time in my 20s in 30s - I was healthy, I was happy, I was carefree, and I didn&#x27;t appreciate it and threw all that time away sitting at a desk looking at a screen. Today, now, that&#x27;s about the only thing I&#x27;m fit to do.<p>Don&#x27;t listen to PG, kids. Live the life you want to have now, not the life you think you&#x27;ll want to have several decades out.
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rakhodorkovskyalmost 4 years ago
I admire pg; I don&#x27;t admire his essays, even though in broad strokes I agree with them. I feel his choice of style works against him; that&#x27;s where I disagree.<p>Write like you talk, but if you talk like pg writes you lose your audience. His essays check out line by line, paragraph by paragraph, but they fail to drive at some deeper, more subtle point that can capture the imagination of an audience. I&#x27;m sure pg is nothing if not imaginative, but his essays aren&#x27;t.<p>Another comment criticizes this essay as just another pg stream of consciousness; I feel it&#x27;s the opposite: short on many of the details, digressions and emotions that can make an essay come alive, that can give you sense of the author and his world. Often when I read an essay that&#x27;s what I&#x27;m interested in most and I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;m alone in this.<p>I think I understand why pg has chosen his style; the principles and aesthetic sensibilities that went into his choice and I agree with them. Nevertheless I think it&#x27;s a poor choice. I hope pg reads this and reconsiders. Innovate!
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cm2012almost 4 years ago
Eh, I don&#x27;t know. I came from a lower middle class background, but am now top 1% for my age and income + I probably have more wealth at this stage of my life than PG did.<p>I <i>love</i> idleness and leisure. I only work to get more of it in the future. I do have a drive to do a job well, but not for the sake of achievement itself <i>shudder</i>.<p>The idea of saying at age 13 &quot;I hate leisure activities, its not productive&quot; is really unsettling to me.
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fchualmost 4 years ago
There is something fascinating about this article, and it&#x27;s not the tips about how to properly work hard, which aren&#x27;t new or particularly insightful (otherwise reasonable and well summarized).<p>It&#x27;s the fact that throughout the article, hard work is an implied imperative in life, the main thing to do (otherwise it brings a &quot;feeling of disgust&quot;), without questioning if that&#x27;s healthy, right, or so absolute. Maybe instead of the how, I was expecting something about the why, a reflection on the bad aspects of working hard too, and its associated costs on other parts of one&#x27;s life, whether it&#x27;s Paul, Patrick or Bill.
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ryanSrichalmost 4 years ago
- Working on a computer all day, from the comfort of my house<p>- Being able to tend to work issues from my phone<p>- Getting intellectual stimulation from my work<p>- Getting to work with really really smart people<p>- Getting to see the joy customers get from using a product you helped build<p>These may not seem like much. They might even seem like a burden to some. But I&#x27;ve worked horrendous jobs in the past. Not just brutal manual labor, but mindless factory jobs that practically turn your brain into mush.<p>Working on things I actually enjoy, in an enjoyable environment, for 12-16 hours per day is a life I&#x27;d take any day of the week over life&#x27;s I&#x27;ve lived in the past.<p>I&#x27;d say overall, working hard pays off if you have a strong impact on the business and own a good chunk of it. If you&#x27;re working at BigTechCoFaang I&#x27;d slack absolutely as much as possible. Just riding the border between hired and fired.
jasperryalmost 4 years ago
Maybe the world also needs people who are not so achievement-driven, who act as a kind of lubricant in the machine of society by making the environment around themselves lighter and more pleasant. And people who are that way should learn to value themselves and not feel guilty for not being as driven as some.<p>A world where everyone is a nose-to-the-grindstone overachiever seems like a pretty dreary one to live in.
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nicholastalmost 4 years ago
I know this is somewhat of a false dichotomy, but at some point I think PG&#x27;s essays started to shift from being directed at startup founders to giving advice to his children that they can read when they grow older.
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endisneighalmost 4 years ago
I hate the whole &quot;hard work,&quot; but not &quot;long hours&quot; sort of discussion. Basically, if you work hard, but not long and succeed, then your hard work was &quot;valid&quot;, if you work &quot;long hours&quot;, which by some definition is &quot;hard work&quot; but don&#x27;t succeed then it was just &quot;long hours&quot; and not &quot;hard work.&quot;<p>In other words, as long as you succeed whatever work you did is considered &quot;hard work&quot; or &quot;working smart&quot;, etc. etc.
giantg2almost 4 years ago
Hard work can be good, but only if you own a substantial capital interest in the company&#x2F;result. But if you can hire people to do it for you, then you can reap the benefits <i>and</i> live a life worth living. If you are just part of the labor and not the capital, then there really isn&#x27;t an incentive to work harder than necessary to keep you job or earn a measly raise.<p>If you tell people that if they work 12+ hours a day in their 20s that they would be multi-millionaires or billionaires, then almost everyone would accept that position. The real world doesn&#x27;t work that way and using statistical outliers like Gates is disingenuous to the discussion about hard work and how it applies to normal people.
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SMAAARTalmost 4 years ago
I second this. Each and every time I met someone who lives by the motto &quot;I work smart not hard&quot; or a version of that, they ended up being lazy, or stupid, or - most often - both.<p>We live in a world where the &quot;average&quot; is actually very high, so working hard, really gets us right around average; in order to break that barrier, in order to be &gt;1 standard deviation from mean, we need to work hard and smart; and the road to &gt;2 standard deviation is brutally hard.
david927almost 4 years ago
This falls into the Malcolm Gladwell genre of arguments made on top of specious anecdotal data. Paul&#x27;s not wrong, per se, but it&#x27;s not a well-formed argument.<p>Bill Gates made his fortune by being in the right place at the right time with connections from his wealthy family, and software that he first sold and then went out and bought. If hard work helped him grow his empire, great, but I wouldn&#x27;t use him as a great example of what hard work can bring you.<p>PG Wodehouse is considered by most to be a great &quot;fun commercial fiction&quot; writer. Comparing him to, say, Joyce, says more about Paul than about either of these writers.<p>For me, I prefer this quote by Calvin Coolidge: &quot;Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.&quot;
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antiterraalmost 4 years ago
Reading about Bill Gates not taking a day off in his 20s doesn’t inspire me to work harder at all. If anything, it’s a miscalculation on Gates’s part, assuming he’d actually enjoy a day off. Would he have been materially less successful if he took a single day off in his 20s? Probably not. How about a week, or a week a year? Two weeks?
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dahartalmost 4 years ago
This only barely glances the number one way I’ve found to work hard: to work for yourself. Working on things other people want is, for me, more difficult than working on things I want. Working at someone else’s company is more difficult than working at my company. With my own company, when things were going relatively well, it was easy to spend every waking minute working. At other companies, putting in overtime is more draining, especially if the reasons for it are because things are late or something broke. I’ve put in a <i>lot</i> of overtime in my life, I tend to work hard, but there’s really no comparison between hard work with a boss and hard work as the boss.
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WhompingWindowsalmost 4 years ago
Yet another Paul Graham stream of consciousness. He presents a thesis but forgets to support it as he streams out another essay. I take issue with this fundamental thesis: &quot;There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort.&quot;<p>He doesn&#x27;t distinguish between practice and effort. In my view, practice takes effort and effort occurs during practice, they are two dimensions of the same thing, which is really just &quot;experience.&quot; You don&#x27;t gain experience without effortful practice.<p>Furthermore, where is his mention of accountability to a team? One of the greatest motivators is having helpful allies who tell you what they want from you, provide tips how to do it (leveraging their experience), and then give you the keys you need to work hard and get great things done.<p>Another lackluster article from PG that rockets to the top of HN within an hour. There are much better writers out there, I&#x27;m not sure why his work is so lauded.
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rexreedalmost 4 years ago
Doesn&#x27;t it all depend what you want out of life? And is the hard work even guaranteed to provide you what you want out of life? Hard work, desired outcomes, and goals are not in alignment.<p>What&#x27;s the point of this essay, to convince people who don&#x27;t want to work hard to work hard? Is this meant to chastise people? Motivate? Demoralize? Self-congratulate?
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a0-prwalmost 4 years ago
This is absolutely insane XD I had so much fun and got into so much trouble in my late teens and twenties. I would be weeping into my scrooge money if I had worked like this essay advocates. I&#x27;ve also always had <i>enough</i> money and I&#x27;ve always had a little more than enough fun.
kcatskcolbdialmost 4 years ago
No mention of the near slave labor in our agriculture system. No mention of the parents working two custodial jobs to provide for their children. No mention of the vast quantity of individuals working hard every day who don&#x27;t get to become billionaires.
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dash2almost 4 years ago
Good place to say what a profound genius P G Wodehouse was. Here&#x27;s one of my favourite exchanges from a Jeeves book:<p>&quot;If you will recollect, we are now in Autumn – season of mists and mellow fruitfulness.&quot;<p>&quot;Season of what?&quot;<p>&quot;Mists, sir, and mellow fruitfulness.&quot;
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nvarsjalmost 4 years ago
Has hard work burned anyone else out? I spent my 20s working my ass off as an employee, and while it helped my career a lot, I am completely burned out now. All that creative work and effort which didn&#x27;t end up amounting to much personally. Maybe the caveat to working hard is you should work hard for yourself and not others.
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Y_Yalmost 4 years ago
Doesn&#x27;t this sound shit though? If Bill Gates is so smart why did he have to work so much? Did he like coding and management more than days off?<p>If a life of hard work is needed to get you into heaven that&#x27;s fine. Or if anything less would mean you and your dependants going hungry. But once your basic needs are met then it&#x27;s irrational not to start spending time on all of the other things that life has to offer.<p>I feel like drive and energy and work-ethic are great, and you&#x27;re useless without them. All the same if you have nothing else then you just become enslaved by your need to output more or increase your wealth or whatever, without connecting that to any healthy goal like health or happiness or wellbeing. It&#x27;s like a cognitive defect, a disability except you&#x27;re unable to not-do.
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designiumalmost 4 years ago
Summary:<p>- Working hard starts at school, but there is a lot of &quot;distortion&quot;<p>- It&#x27;s complicated to since it depends on multitude of person&#x27;s factors and likes<p>- You have to be honest with yourself<p>- You have to find something you want or&#x2F;and talented to do<p>- More competitive areas or ambitious goals will required more effort<p>- What was said before may not work given the circumstances of each individual
tgtweakalmost 4 years ago
This rhetoric furthered by Elon, Jack Ma and several others where working 7 days a week for 18 hours is &quot;ideal&quot; and that rest and relaxation are had at the expense of productivity&#x2F;success is a real dangerous position.<p>You know what happens to the majority of people when they get to a state of anxiety when relaxing and not working? Stress and burnout.<p>Let&#x27;s acknowledge that it may have been the path to success for SOME of the 0.1% who can work 18 hours a day nonstop for a decade with extreme natural ability and a fair amount of chance (confirmation bias aside) and not the end-all of being successful that everyone should strive for. Yes, there is certainly a correlation between working hard and being successful - regardless of your natural ability. Don&#x27;t do it at the expense of living.<p>Take it to the extreme: what happens when EVERYONE works that hard? You&#x27;re back at your normal level of relative productivity.
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kungitoalmost 4 years ago
I really don&#x27;t lije these &quot;work hard in all your 20s&quot; advice because I&#x27;m at nearing the end of my 20s with great results but I feel like I want to save what&#x27;s left of my 20s instead of chasing more cash. I haven&#x27;t personally met people who worked hard until 40s and felt like it was worth it for them. Being a successful person personally has always been way more than just having a successful career and money.
jstrebelalmost 4 years ago
I am always amazed at how well-received Paul Graham&#x27;s blog entries are here on Hacker News, despite their thinly veilled underlying message: &quot;Start a company, work hard, get rich&quot;. All of his writings center around this topic in one way or another and glorify it in various way.<p>I always take his writings with a big grain of salt, because I know that his sweet message might not be right for me.
xwdvalmost 4 years ago
I gotta be honest, I hate working hard. At least for money anyway. I hate the amount of time and mindshare it takes and the way it&#x27;s looked up to as some virtue by the rest of society; the hallmark of some truly good person.<p>I&#x27;m sure there will be knee jerk reactions to downvote this just because of how programmed it is into society that hard work is a noble endeavor, and perhaps it is, for a certain class of problems that humanity occasionally faces where there is no easy way to solve them except by working hard. But making money and living a good life should not be one of those problems.<p>You really don&#x27;t know how pointless it is to work hard until you make easy money. It&#x27;s not uncommon for my investment portfolio to have a gain or loss of $20-30k in a day, I&#x27;ve made over $200k in the past two months, not really doing anything. My job itself pays close to $200k a year, but I justify working it by the fact that it&#x27;s fairly easy and really I only put in about 4 hours of solid work per day.<p>I feel fairly secure in not being a very ambitious person anymore. I used to be, back when I was young and hopeful and immersed in the whole startup scene with hopes of making it big and changing the world for the better. But no startup I was ever part of ever made it big. Worse, as I got to <i>know</i> the world I didn&#x27;t see the point in trying to change it. It is what it is and that&#x27;s all it will ever be.<p>So yea, I&#x27;ve accepted I&#x27;m not one of those people destined to save the world through hard work. Instead I&#x27;m here to savor the fruits of their hard labor, and my goal now is to live as richly as possible with the least amount of effort. There is so much to enjoy in life and not enough time to enjoy it if you spend all your time working hard.<p>Nothing makes me feel as good as working smart, or even not working at all, and yet <i>still</i> producing the same amount of results as someone who has worked very hard. It is intoxicating, and knowing that others would be doing the same if I was working hard right now makes it very unappealing to work hard myself. I am cursed in that I will never be able to work hard again.
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WillDaSilvaalmost 4 years ago
Strange that Firefox&#x27;s reader view cannot be enabled for this post. Probably because instead of using `&lt;p&gt;` tags or similar, the content of the post is contained within a `&lt;font&gt;` block inside a table, with `&lt;br&gt;` tags separating the paragraphs.<p>Not having the content inside of `&lt;p&gt;` blocks is a departure from Paul Graham&#x27;s older content, and a confusing one at that.<p>EDIT: It looks like the posts with the &quot;Want to start a startup? Get funded by Y Combinator.&quot; banner are contained within a `&lt;p&gt;` block, and can be read with Firefox reader view, but those without the banner are not within a `&lt;p&gt;` block, and cannot be read with Firefox reader view.
krustyburgeralmost 4 years ago
&gt;&gt;There wasn&#x27;t a single point when I learned this. Like most little kids, I enjoyed the feeling of achievement when I learned or did something new. As I grew older, this morphed into a feeling of disgust when I wasn&#x27;t achieving anything. The one precisely dateable landmark I have is when I stopped watching TV, at age 13.<p>I wouldn’t dare question Paul Graham’s accomplishments, but I’ve always found it odd that some people are so proud of their abstention from television. There are time-wasting things on tv, but there are also time-wasting books, albums etc. I think not watching television and advertising that one didn’t was once an easy intellectual badge of honor. When there were only a few networks and the programming didn’t vary much, perhaps this made sense.<p>Every so often I still hear someone proudly say that they don’t watch television today. I usually wonder exactly what they mean, now that we are all able to choose the exact film or program we want and play it on demand. Surely it’s not a mark of excellence not to stream, say, the Criterion Channel?
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defnmacroalmost 4 years ago
My personal take is working hard is a precondition towards being successful but not necessarily a guarantee.<p>Lots of normal people work very hard, many normal people I know outside of tech are working night shifts and a day job to just sustain their lives. Many of these people rarely have a full day off, rather they might scale back the night job in order to get rest, or rest whenever their scheduling allows for it. There probably working just as hard as a Bill Gates, but these people aren&#x27;t exactly walking towards a path of riches. They&#x27;re just sustaining and it&#x27;s a very unfortunate reality of America today.<p>Really success comes from the prerequisite of hard work, the aptitude of the individual in regards to the task, and the ability of the resulting work to pay off in convexity, similar to a call option in finance. Generally non-convex pay outs are also associated with risk, perhaps alot of it. So really success comes from working very hard, being smart about it and taking on risk.
jjicealmost 4 years ago
&gt; ...because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless.<p>I loved all of my CS courses in college. They were my bread and butter. I also liked a lot of my math courses and even an English class or two. I just wish I didn&#x27;t take 5 history courses (three as part of an elective set that had to be liberal arts), three unrelated sciences (bio 1+2, and astronomy - imaging science was great and applicable), and two women and gender studies courses (nothing against the major, just unrelated to my degree).<p>I&#x27;ve been told countless times that these courses help round out a student. Most of them don&#x27;t. I end up bullshitting them as much as possible and getting a B so I can focus on the courses I care about. A streamlined college education where we remove some (not all) non-major course work and save two or three semesters of time would be amazing, but of course that&#x27;s two or three semesters of lost cash for a university...
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chevillalmost 4 years ago
PG takes a lot of peoples&#x27; claims for granted when they are probably exaggerations.<p>Gates: &gt;I didn&#x27;t take a single day off in my 20s.<p>Most likely this is only technically true because its almost certain he took multiple days off in his 20s. We&#x27;d have to look at what Bill means here by working every single day. If he counts spending at least a couple minutes on something work related every day its far more believable than him spending approximately 3650 consecutive days working 8-12 hours or more.<p>Wodehouse: &gt;with each new book of mine I have, as I say, the feeling that this time I have picked a lemon in the garden of literature. A good thing, really, I suppose. Keeps one up on one&#x27;s toes and makes one rewrite every sentence ten times. Or in many cases twenty times.<p>This claim is even more unbelievable. I&#x27;d bet the average sentence he wrote wasn&#x27;t rewritten at all, let alone 10-20 times. I think what he actually means is that sometimes he would have to re-write a sentence 10-20 times.
rllearneratworkalmost 4 years ago
Very few people regret on their deathbed that they simply did not work hard enough. What they typically regret is not trying things and not spending time with family. Yes, trying things could mean work very hard, like starting a startup but it also often means not backpacking in Europe, not sailing around the world, not opening their own bakery, etc.
maerF0x0almost 4 years ago
One meta comment I would like to make is that taking the advice of people looking backwards can be terribly misleading as people re-encode memories as they recall them, often to highlight the positives and to move goal posts towards what actually happened.<p>Someone who says &quot;I&#x27;m so happy I moved to &lt;place&gt; in my 20s because &lt;life event&gt; happened&quot; fails to highlight 2 things. 1) What were they aiming at and did they accomplish _that_ and 2) what were the multitude of true opportunities they turned down and would they actually be materially happier had those happened. Not would their current self prefer it, but if we could some how numerically rate the happiness of folks who go through alternate universes...<p>The good news is that there&#x27;s a good chance you&#x27;ll look back on your life events with mostly good feelings, regardless of what happens, because you&#x27;ll heal and move on from the bad parts ...
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jthornquestalmost 4 years ago
There are a lot of very good notes in these comments about our relationship with &quot;work&quot; and excellence. I currently operate from the perspective of creating something I&#x27;m proud of for myself, and I&#x27;m relearning the joy of leisure. My own life isn&#x27;t defined by my greatness, my productivity, or my output. I&#x27;ve learned to realize that the &quot;alarm-bells&quot; that clattered in my head were more of an anxious, awful self-perception that my value was tied to my output.<p>A few weeks ago, I found a bit of recent scientific learning that gave me a renewed context around passion and pursuit. <i>It turns out that research is showing that bodies and brains don&#x27;t typically begin to degrade in their capacity for training muscle-memory skills until our sixties.</i> For someone like me, who is anxiously accounting for how to try a lot of different pursuits (music, illustration, and especially relevant here, a constantly tenuous relationship with computers) this is a comfort. I was so motivated by a rush to get my foundations down by the time I was thirty, because the capitalist culture I&#x27;m steeped in says that&#x27;s my deadline.<p>I had it ingrained that my teenage or twenty-something years were the time to plant the seeds, and it&#x27;s all downhill after that. Besides the wisdom shared on the contrary (both in these comments and elsewhere), dipping this wisdom in research I didn&#x27;t know about before empowered me further.<p>I appreciate that Paul adds a bit about how our focus doesn&#x27;t often become clear until we&#x27;re older, that our childhoods tend to distill topics in ways that can initially bland them to our taste. Nevertheless, I want to stress that you&#x27;ve got a lot more time to do something to your best ability. Even as you age beyond sixty or seventy, I&#x27;ve seen so many folks brush off the bit of extra physical or mental challenge that they face, and do great things anyway.<p>Your twenties won&#x27;t make or break you. You have so much more time.
fungiblecogalmost 4 years ago
The problem with these kind of essays is that - like the whole 10,000 hours thing - people take away the &quot;Work&quot; part but miss that the &quot;work&quot; has to be intentional. There&#x27;s no point putting in 14 hour days on busywork that gets you nowhere. Unfortunately that&#x27;s where a lot of people end up.
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mgh2almost 4 years ago
&gt; There are three ingredients in great work: natural ability, practice, and effort.<p>There is one essential factor that if someone does not have, everything else mentioned here does not matter: luck or provision (scientifically speaking, luck does not exist). Every entrepreneur knows that no matter how hard they work, at the end of the day if they are not in the right place, at the right time, with the right people, success is not guaranteed.<p>This view is biased towards certain kinds of people. Yes, these three ingredients might increase your success chances, especially in the US (being born is the US is luck). This is why so many 3rd world country people want to emigrate, for better opportunities. Even with this premise, you probably know of someone who worked incredibly hard only to be screwed by their boss, or the privileged kid who got a foot in the door at an Ivy League or a job.<p>People in Silicon Valley and tech live in a bubble - the danger of this is to attribute your success to hard work, when in fact everything was given (yes, even your opportunity to work hard or ability to be self-motivated was provided). Examples of SV&#x27;s bias: &quot;Everyone should learn how to code&quot; (not everyone has a coder&#x27;s mindset). &quot;Universal Basic Income&quot; (pandemic checks, people become lazy)<p>With this said, it is still <i>our responsibility</i> to work hard at everything we do.<p>&gt; It comes partly from <i>popular culture</i>, where it seems to run very deep, and partly from the fact that the outliers are so rare.<p>As an outlier, you are the <i>lucky</i> few, don&#x27;t forget that.<p>Perhaps the greatest myth in American popular culture comes from the belief in free will, which makes hard work seem like the most plausible explanation for someone&#x27;s mis&#x2F;fortune: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m-g-h.medium.com&#x2F;free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf8095812" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m-g-h.medium.com&#x2F;free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale-4fecf80...</a>
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innagadadavidaalmost 4 years ago
I&#x27;m not qualified to give advice to someone like PG. But millionaires and billionaires need to get some perspective and get out of their bubble before spouting nonsense advice to common people. For most normal people, it is about surviving and finding a profession that can pay the bills. At least acknowledging your role and place in society before focussing on some rarefied advice will be more useful (not to mention may also generate more clicks).<p>So as a challenge to PG: if you believe in yourself so strongly, prove it. Just freeze your billions and mansions for 6 months. Downgrade your life to live like a normal person. Get some perspective and write again. You&#x27;ll probably become even more successful in the process (not that you care for it).
ttiuranialmost 4 years ago
&gt; [E]ven in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless.<p>I find it interesting PG thinks that dismissing entire branches of science without specifying which ones nor justifying why, is a) a good take or b) makes his essay better.
arduinomanceralmost 4 years ago
I feel like a big part missing from this essay is “Why should you work hard?”<p>It seems to assume that working hard is a good thing.<p>Are these essays implicitly aimed at startup founders?<p>Because for the average engineer working hard doesn’t have much of a benefit.<p>Optimizing for interviews is much more important than hard work.
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throwaway123qqalmost 4 years ago
What ability is required at a factory, you know, these useless workers producing means of subsistence, like food, homes, equipment? I think these workers make awesome things, well, because I need food, etc for living. It is only thanks to them you able to do what you want - what you call work, while they work 12 hours a day for very little. There is huge difference between their work and what you do. With all respect, but I will recommend you changing the subject to something else, but not &quot;hard work&quot;. May be &quot;making profit hardcore XXX.&quot;.
uniqueuidalmost 4 years ago
Feels like solid advice overall.<p>One thing I find important relates to other people. Some say that success comes from hard work, or that the right focus is essential to success. But that&#x27;s a false dichotomy.<p>In truth, there are many people out there who work incredibly hard, and some of them are even good, and some of those have the right focus.<p>Hard work is the <i>precondition</i>. Even if your focus is right and you&#x27;re clever, you are always competing with people who also have that but put in many hours on top.<p>It&#x27;s a tower, and if you want to rise, you need to tackle all the layers.
quickthrower2almost 4 years ago
Just want to comment to say it’s totally ok not to work hard (nebulous definition but let’s say hard = forgetting your mum’s birthday hard)<p>I think articles like this imply (whether intentional or not) that our existence need to be driven towards some big goal.<p>Reading a lot of this worldview on HN and other similar places can make one feel that living a normal life is somehow not enough. That’s the trap I hope people don’t fall into.<p>Don’t cargo cult bill gates! If you want to work like a dog, fine, but as long as it’s an internal decision not to please the expectations of others.
didibusalmost 4 years ago
I hate this obsession with &quot;hard work&quot;.<p>&quot;hard&quot; is a weasel word, it means nothing concrete, it&#x27;s not quantifiable, and even as a quality it&#x27;s unclear, what is the emotional feeling attached to it?<p>&quot;work&quot; has two meanings:<p>1. activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result<p>2. a task or tasks to be undertaken; something a person or thing has to do<p>So what are we even talking about when we say &quot;hard work&quot;?<p>If you take the first definition, adding the &quot;hard&quot; qualifier makes no difference, because what makes an activity &quot;hard&quot; is that it requires mental and&#x2F;or physical effort to accomplish. So in that sense, work is inherently effortful, and thus &quot;hard&quot;. Maybe what people mean when they say &quot;hard work&quot; is sustained effort exertion?<p>If you take the second it makes more sense, but then it would imply that &quot;hard work&quot; is about the choice of task you undertake. If you choose to do harder tasks, you&#x27;d be &quot;hard working&quot;. The issue here though is that it&#x27;s not clear what makes a task &quot;hard&quot;. I think the risk of failure is possibly the best way to qualify it here. If you&#x27;re likely to fail the task, it is thus &quot;hard&quot; to you. But is that really what people mean when they evangelize &quot;hard work&quot;? To always work on tasks you are likely to fail at?<p>Since PG&#x27;s example was how Bill Gates took no vacation in 10 years, I&#x27;ll conclude that he&#x27;s trying to suggests that &quot;hard work&quot; means have a &quot;high rate of work per week&quot;.<p>So he seem to imply &quot;hard work&quot; is when most of your week is spent exerting mental or physical effort towards a result or purpose.<p>And that&#x27;s where I hate the framing of &quot;hard work&quot;, it&#x27;s just &quot;work&quot;, adding &quot;hard&quot; is just a pretentious qualifier.<p>P.S.: I really doubt Bill Gates success is attributable to not taking 15 days of time off per year for 10 years. That is not a lot of time, maybe if he worked 80 hours week, but as research shows, real physical and mental effort is unsustainable beyond some level, and rest is needed.
nickelcitymarioalmost 4 years ago
&gt; I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless.<p>The arrogance! This is one of my pet peeves at work: When someone looks at another person&#x27;s work and judges its value or difficulty. &quot;That&#x27;s easy.&quot; &quot;That&#x27;s pointless.&quot;<p>Ugh.<p>Everyone else&#x27;s job looks easy and&#x2F;or pointless until you&#x27;re the one doing it. Then it&#x27;s important and challenging (hopefully).<p>Most people who feel their own work is pointless simply don&#x27;t understand how their role fits into the bigger picture. I assure you, the profit motive is very good at weeding out truly unnecessary costs. It may lag, sometimes. But if there&#x27;s a dollar being spent that doesn&#x27;t need to be spent, someone is going to eventually find out and eliminate the expense.<p>I think this mentality comes from a deep need to feel superior to others. So when we can&#x27;t understand or appreciate someone&#x27;s job, it feels powerful to declare their work easy or pointless.<p>But that&#x27;s just ignorance, arrogance, and, frankly, bullying by other means: I&#x27;ll make myself feel bigger by making you feel small, and I&#x27;ll do it in front of all of my friends so they can affirm how big and tough and awesome I am.
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silviotalmost 4 years ago
As others have already pointed out this will go down in history as the &quot;Let them eat cake&quot; of our times. The disconnect with the real life of billions of people is astonishing.
bobobob420almost 4 years ago
This article is hot garbage and so is much else Paul writes. The comments were 10x better than the crap written in this article like seriously? You should write a motivation book too.
simonebrunozzialmost 4 years ago
Any discussion about hard work should have a mention of &quot;in praise of idleness&quot; [0].<p>In addition to that, let me tell you this.<p>The famous writer Andrea Camilleri [1] (author of Inspector Montalbano, an Italian TV series which became an international success [2]), in an interview years ago recalled when as a kid, spending Summers in his native Sicily would entail things like spitting on a coin and waiting for hours until a fly would get stuck in the saliva - essentially, being idle.<p>And this idleness, in his view, had a tremendous value.<p>Praise hard work, sure. But don&#x27;t think that you can escape the big questions about life, or that hard work is the only way to achieve greatness.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;harpers.org&#x2F;archive&#x2F;1932&#x2F;10&#x2F;in-praise-of-idleness&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;harpers.org&#x2F;archive&#x2F;1932&#x2F;10&#x2F;in-praise-of-idleness&#x2F;</a><p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Andrea_Camilleri" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Andrea_Camilleri</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Inspector_Montalbano_(TV_series)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Inspector_Montalbano_(TV_serie...</a>
HellDunkelalmost 4 years ago
This is some next level clickbait and we all fell for it. With „hard work“ he is touching on somthing we all can relate to. So we read the thing. What he is trying to get across is: a) i know hard work, that is why i „made“ it. b) it takes hard work to make great things c) this proves i made great things. This is not a philisophical reflection. It is marketing BS. I am not a hater. Just trying to give name to the elephant in the room.
sjg007almost 4 years ago
The other thing that I found interesting was this:<p>&quot;What can one do in the face of such uncertainty? One solution is to hedge your bets, which in this case means to follow the obviously promising paths instead of your own private obsessions. But as with any hedge, you&#x27;re decreasing reward when you decrease risk. If you forgo working on what you like in order to follow some more conventionally ambitious path, you might miss something wonderful that you&#x27;d otherwise have discovered. That too must happen all the time, perhaps even more often than the genius whose bets all fail.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m not sure the things we view as safe, such as, medical&#x2F;law&#x2F;grad school&#x2F;mba are really hedges.<p>You could go to medical school as a safe path but be interested in tech. I thought about this but the medical gate keepers didn&#x27;t value the tech when I was applying ... Today we see ambitious medicine&#x2F;tech convergences which arguably present a path there.<p>I think there is a bigger issue is that we don&#x27;t know what the jobs of the future will be. But we do know they will be organized around disciplines but not exactly what they are. They will most likely have a technology component because tech is what enables growth.
Alex3917almost 4 years ago
&gt; And since you can&#x27;t really change how much natural talent you have, in practice doing great work, insofar as you can, reduces to working very hard.<p>Only a few people will have the right body type to be great at any given sport, but a lot will have the right body type to be great at at least one sport. E.g. if you don&#x27;t have the right body type for basketball, you might have the perfect body type for ski jumping or whatever.
burlesonaalmost 4 years ago
&gt; Knowing what you want to work on doesn&#x27;t mean you&#x27;ll be able to. Most people have to spend a lot of their time working on things they don&#x27;t want to, especially early on. But if you know what you want to do, you at least know what direction to nudge your life in.<p>This is the hardest part for me. The stuff I dream about, my deepest “deep interest,” I don’t think I could make a meaningful dent in without substantial capital. And I didn’t come from a background with any kind of money. In my early twenties I spent years, largely wasted, chasing these dreams with the idea that I could find a less capital-intensive path or somehow get someone to invest in me. Eventually I realized it just wasn’t going to happen, and I needed to find an alternate interest that could feed me and my family.<p>At this point I see it as, if my alternate career pays off then perhaps I can circle back to my dreams in (hopefully early) “retirement,” when I have enough resources that I could live for a long time without income - or, better, enough capital to invest directly, but that seems unlikely.<p>Until then, I just do my best to enjoy the challenges of my alternate career path.
adv0ralmost 4 years ago
This is the first essay by PG which I find somehow misleading. It took me a couple of years after quitting my frenetic goal-driven life to be able to sit back and enjoy. I was the kind of person that have a task on Trello to shave and shower. If you feel that doing nothing is wasting time, I feel there is a good chance you need to look deeper within yourself and see what your REAL drive is. Why you do what you do? Why you can&#x27;t sit in peace? Why do you have FOMO? Why looking at the TED talk by 10-year-old-genious millionare makes you feel miserable? You try to compensate by keep moving, never stopping, and sedate your anxiety and fear with a ... job. Something you can be very good at, something that can be meaningful, yet you are in autopilot.<p>If you can&#x27;t turn it off because you feel discomfort, well, maybe you are missing out on your inner voice. You can go by probably for decades ignoring it, and actually use &quot;&quot;FOCUS&quot;&quot; as mean to procrastinate&#x2F;getting distracted from thinking about your human condition.<p>But I&#x27;m just me and he is PG.<p>So maybe listen to him
prettycolors23almost 4 years ago
I think &quot;natural talent&quot; is sort of a false concept. After time, hard work and practice often turn into talent. When you train hard at something and improve your skills enough, an outside observer will label you as talented. The better your skills, the more talented. You are the only one that knows you didn&#x27;t start with those skills.<p>I wrestled competitively for 20 years. By the end of my career, people would talk about how naturally talented I was. But I knew that everything they were talking about came about through two decades of practice. People talked about how fast I was. But I spent years doing plyometrics. I was slow before that. People talked about how strong I was; I was doing pushups and pull ups every day with my dad starting at 8 years old. People just saw the results of 20 years of practice, and didn&#x27;t see where I started out, so they called it talent.<p>I think to be extremely successful at something, you don&#x27;t need talent. You can build talent in yourself. There is something to be said about people who are naturally very bad at something. Those people might never appear talented at something they are naturally very bad at. But then again, given enough practice over time, they might.<p>If you look at anyone who is a true master of a skill, their mastery lies not in their natural talent, but through their years of practice, their drive and their passion for what they are doing. Talent plays a small role over time. It mostly plays a role in the beginning.<p>For something like sprinting or weight lifting, I will give that natural ability is important. There are only so many people that can be as fast as Usain Bolt. But for sports that are more skills based, like martial arts, or other activities that are skills based, like coding, talent only takes you so far. After a certain point, talent becomes insignificant compared to all of your hard work.
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fleddralmost 4 years ago
The article isn&#x27;t wrong or incorrect in itself, but since the definition of &quot;doing great things&quot; once again centers on extreme Bill-Gates-level success, I take issue with two points:<p>In these extreme examples (Gates, Bezos, Musk, etc) the environment is the true differentiator to go from success to extreme success. Not talent, not working hard. Doing the right thing at the right time in the right environment creates the snowball effect. It still requires hard work, but hard work is not rare or unique. Bezos is about a 100.000 times richer than a &quot;plain&quot; successful millionaire, so surely hard work is not the game changer here.<p>Success requires hard work, extreme success requires luck or foresight. In the case of Gates clearly luck, as he pretty much missed every single tech trend in the decades to come. He has zero foresight, but I&#x27;m sure he worked hard in his most energetic years, like pretty much everybody.<p>I protest against leaving out the luck factor as these people and their admirers truly believe they are some god-like character, a 1000 times smarter than everybody else.<p>There has been an entire industry trying to replicate the success of Jobs, for example. As if you can replicate that. You can&#x27;t replicate any of these outcomes as they are time-bound. You can do exactly what Jobs did and the outcome would be shit, no matter your talent or how hard you work.<p>The second part of my protest is completely leaving out the enablers of your success: workers. 99.9999% of your wealth in the case of extreme success is delivered by them, not you. Not even mentioning that is classic hero admiration. And this doesn&#x27;t even go into how often the relation is highly exploitative. We know the issue with Amazon workers, as well as the true reason of Microsoft&#x27;s success: the merciless elimination of competitors in criminal ways.
nkotovalmost 4 years ago
I started to work full time during the summers at 15 in IT - doing easy tasks like imaging laptops and setting up desktops for teachers my local school district. My friends would spend their time with video games, hanging out, etc. At the end of the summer, I asked if I could work part time after school for the district so that I don&#x27;t have gaps on my resume. When I got out of high school, I technically already had several years of experience and I just started to apply for jobs instead of going to college. I hit over a decade of &quot;professional&quot; experience by the time I was 25.<p>Do I regret working hard during those early years? Definitely not. It shaped me to be what I am today. I believe you should live your life that way you want to live it. You can&#x27;t achieve great things by doing mediocre amount of work. Figure out where you are content with life and live it without regret of &quot;what could have been&quot;.
danielmarkbrucealmost 4 years ago
Is anyone else surprised there isn&#x27;t more discussion of focus? I know many people (myself included) who work hard but on too many things simultaneously and the results aren&#x27;t as good as folks who seem to just keep plodding along on <i>one</i> thing. Two of my friends who are extremely successful seem less interested in the field they are in, and while intelligent not outrageously so, and don&#x27;t work <i>super</i> hard. But they just keep at one thing without distraction. Over 10-15 years it&#x27;s added up. And it&#x27;s not an easy thing to do. Sticking at one thing 50 hours a week for 10 years is intolerably boring for many people.
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aabajianalmost 4 years ago
Paul Graham makes a few points that show why medical training needs reform. There&#x27;s a disconnect between hard work and income in medicine:<p>i. You work <i>hard</i> throughout residency, yet your salary is fixed. The hardest-working neurosurgery resident gets the <i>same</i> check as the coasting primary care trainee.<p>ii. Trainees are praised for their academic knowledge and their academic output, yet the highest-earning physicians are in private practice.<p>iii. Physician jobs in desirable areas are scarce, and they pay the least. Hard-work improves your chances of getting a job in a competitive market, but at a lower salary.
yewenjiealmost 4 years ago
Off-topic but Firefox gave me a potential security risk warning for the site!!??
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jodrellblankalmost 4 years ago
I often think about this The Onion article[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theonion.com&#x2F;97-year-old-dies-unaware-of-being-violin-prodigy-1819571799" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theonion.com&#x2F;97-year-old-dies-unaware-of-being-v...</a><p>A tragedy that she never discovered her violin talent. All that life and she never wowed audiences or had a TV show special or met the Pope. All she had were these poxy supportive family, friends, and community experiences.<p>Who could be satisfied with merely that?<p>[1] it&#x27;s fictional&#x2F;satire, just to be clear.
andy_pppalmost 4 years ago
There&#x27;s different things to consider I think than just finding something that you can work as hard as possible on. I think Tom Blomfield&#x27;s story is worth hearing about, it sounds like he found being CEO really anxiety inducing even if clearly he was very successful at it: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=gP2_QOCrVO4&amp;ab_channel=TheDiaryOfACEO" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=gP2_QOCrVO4&amp;ab_channel=TheDi...</a>
jedbergalmost 4 years ago
&gt; The one precisely dateable landmark I have is when I stopped watching TV, at age 13.<p>It frustrates me when people brag about this like it&#x27;s a universally good thing. Imagine 100 years ago someone bragging that they stopped wasting time reading books.<p>It&#x27;s especially frustrating to see PG do it given that he&#x27;s an artist (or at least used to be), basically putting down another art form.<p>TV has good and bad things. TV can convey information. TV can be an art form, consumed passively like a painting. And TV can just be a mental escape, like reading a novel.<p>TV is not good or bad, it&#x27;s how you spend your time watching it that matters.
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etherioalmost 4 years ago
The attitude of feeling guilty when you&#x27;re not working can be useful to motivate yourself, but I think it s also something to be careful of.<p>Indeed, sometimes this time of pressure can grow so pervasive it becomes impossible for you to relax, and humans aren&#x27;t endlessly working robots: we need to also have time where we calm down, which PG explained.<p>However, he didn&#x27;t warn of developing too much of a work ethic to the point relaxation itself is something you don&#x27;t enjoy.
pm90almost 4 years ago
&gt; Some of the best work is done by people who find an easy way to do something hard.<p>This is a pretty good insight. Every time I’ve been somewhat successful it’s been because I discovered a different approach which made the problem approachable.<p>When I tried to understand math by rote memorization it was boring. When I understood it as a tool to make predictions about systems, it seemed much more useful. Learning the equations became a side effect of another thing I was trying to do.
throwaway98797almost 4 years ago
I wonder if how to work hard is best answered by the inverse.<p>How to not work hard?<p>1. Work on things of little importance to yourself<p>2. Pretend that you dont need to work hard and that’s for suckers.<p>3. Work on things that don’t require your talents<p>… more?
jp42almost 4 years ago
While going through the comments on this thread, I remembered a chapter in language textbook while I was in school, the name of the chapter was &#x27;Charchasatrat hawaraleli mhatari&#x27;. It was about people discussing a well known parable. This chapter portrayed how people discussed everything except the message of the parable.<p>Similarly, I feel majority of the comments in this thread talking everything except message PG trying to convey.
GeorgeTirebiteralmost 4 years ago
Interestingly, also published today: Why Do We Work So Damn Much <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;ezra-klein-podcast-james-suzman.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;ezra-klein-podcas...</a><p>&quot;...hunter-gatherer societies like the Ju&#x2F;’hoansi spent only about 15 hours a week meeting their material needs...&quot;
tempsonalmost 4 years ago
Created this account to reply to this thread.<p>In my opinion, this article could be much better if it accounted for few additional perspectives.<p>1. There are people in this world who do better with consistency over volume. Dedicate 1 hour every day on your subject of interest. You are bound to get really good at it in few years. The challenging part is “1 hour every day.”<p>2. Work-centric life shouldn’t be celebrated to this extent. It just doesn’t do good at the end.
skapadiaalmost 4 years ago
Maybe PG should include some draft reviewers who are hard working but not rich. Seems like an echo chamber to include the reviewers he does. Unbelievable.
umvialmost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s one thing to learn how to work hard on tasks you love to do.<p>It&#x27;s quite another to learn how to work hard on tasks you hate to do (but still need to be done). I suspect a lot of people that &quot;work hard&quot; programming would not be able to work hard doing manual labor (i.e. digging sprinkler trenches or painting a fence in the hot sun) and would quickly rationalize hiring someone else to do it for them.
mohanmcaalmost 4 years ago
Since many comments mentions that hard-work alone doesn&#x27;t matter.<p>According to Daniel Kahneman, mere hard-work doesn&#x27;t click unless we have access to expert feedback in the domain we work. He used to compare hard working f1-formula-driver without any input from past drivers vs driver with input from expert.<p>Hard work without mentor won&#x27;t click. Environment and people around us also matter as much as the hard-work we do.
JGM_ioalmost 4 years ago
I&#x27;m a bit wary of this essay even though I&#x27;m a fan of PG.<p>With neoliberal rhetoric like this:<p><pre><code> &quot;Like most little kids, I enjoyed the feeling of achievement when I learned or did something new. As I grew older, this morphed into a feeling of disgust when I wasn&#x27;t achieving anything.&quot; </code></pre> I wonder if we&#x27;re not forgetting to just chill. Can he just chill?<p>I dunno, something that&#x27;s been on my mind
fellowniusmonkalmost 4 years ago
For people with my upbringing its even harder, because hard work often does not pay rewards, so you have to intentionally reject the feedback loop that nature and reality is throwing in your face.<p>There is a whole class of incredibly hard working people that never receive, are actively denied reward or are effectively punished for their hard work.<p>Hard work without dopamine reinforcement takes extreme mental toughness.
dougb5almost 4 years ago
Today&#x27;s Ezra Klein podcast has an excellent interview with James Suzman who gives a historical perspective on <i>why</i> we work hard: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;ezra-klein-podcast-james-suzman.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nytimes.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;29&#x2F;opinion&#x2F;ezra-klein-podcas...</a>
rmahalmost 4 years ago
When I was younger, for some odd reason I thought it was important to convince people that hard work was important. But today, the more people I see commenting that &quot;hard work&quot; is essentially a scam -- or something to that effect -- the happier I become. It just means that there is less competition. Feel free to do your own thing, relax, skate along and enjoy life.
CamelCaseNamealmost 4 years ago
This is the trait that I have found in successful people around me:<p>&gt; The most basic level of which is simply to feel you should be working without anyone telling you to.<p>&gt; Now, when I&#x27;m not working hard, alarm bells go off. I can&#x27;t be sure I&#x27;m getting anywhere when I&#x27;m working hard, but I can be sure I&#x27;m getting nowhere when I&#x27;m not, and it feels awful.<p>How does one cultivate this feeling?
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amaialmost 4 years ago
Professional athletes often train 30 hours a week. They cycle between easy and hard training days.<p>If they would workout hard every day their performance would stall or even plummet.Nutrition and sleep is also very important for them . I don&#x27;t understand why the lessons from pro sports are not taken into account also for work. In both cases it is about performance after all.
gxsalmost 4 years ago
To me this article describes how to get on target.<p>Once on target, I do think you go balls to the wall as long as it&#x27;s sustainable while getting good results.<p>On a side note, I really dislike this style of writing where it tries to be psuedo technical and even uses psuedo technical terms. I realize this isn&#x27;t necessarily Paul&#x27;s shortcoming, but rather my own subjective preferences.
nkingsyalmost 4 years ago
I understand the drive to share here, as nothing fees better than hard work, but it’s a very intimidating read and feels quite navel gazey.<p>In my experience, there is no such thing as hard work. There’s a universal river of truth that I can tap into in flow state, and if something is blocking me from getting there, I might as well watch a show and see if the river is open later.
cwhittlealmost 4 years ago
Someone needs to write a compelling article on &quot;Why to work hard&quot;. Just because you <i>should</i> isn&#x27;t a good enough.
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sunstonealmost 4 years ago
Think of how astonishingly amazing it is to be a sentient being in a universe of 100&#x27;s of billions of galaxies! What could anyone ever do to come close to justifying such a privilege? Sure, work hard if you like but don&#x27;t forget what an astounding trip existence is.<p>Before enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment chop wood, carry water.
_Nat_almost 4 years ago
It&#x27;d be nice if articles about some common term, e.g. &quot;<i>work hard</i>&quot;, would start out with a clear definition.
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coldteaalmost 4 years ago
&gt;<i>One thing I know is that if you want to do great things, you&#x27;ll have to work very hard.</i><p>Says the guy who made it big in his 32th year by selling a company he had just founded 2 years before.<p>An aspiring message to single mothers working two jobs and barely making rent and all other kind of working stiff working their arse off to keep the lights on, the buildings clean, the power running, the cables installed, the food served, the minerals for the PCs mined, and so on, in the backbone of the &quot;digital&quot; economy...<p>&gt;<i>Bill Gates, for example, was among the smartest people in business in his era, but he was also among the hardest working. &quot;I never took a day off in my twenties,&quot; he said. &quot;Not one.</i><p>Well, that&#x27;s because he never &quot;worked&quot; the way 99.9999% of the people he is lecturing do: he did what he wanted to do, running his own company, bossing other people below him, and making billions whole at it.<p>If Bill Gates tried working as an employee on someone else&#x27;s business, with BS bosses and middle managers running you around, and not making anything to write home about, we&#x27;d see how fast he would have wanted a day off...<p>(Not that there&#x27;s any reliable way to cross-check whether he really &quot;never had a day off&quot; in his 20s, or what his work day actually amounted to)...
ottofluxalmost 4 years ago
or, you know, work hard when it&#x27;s work time and take a life balance. your company isn&#x27;t going to come to raise your children (if you have them) when you die, nor are they going to live a happy life for you.<p>we have to stop thinking exploiting ourselves for someone else&#x27;s gain makes us a better person.<p>i&#x27;m not saying the author says the opposite, but i think in any discussion of hard work we need to bring up balance. a good part of Bill Gates success was the money infusion from his friends and a wildly asymmetrical deal with IBM and the writer of DOS on the other side.<p>if we don&#x27;t take a more nuanced approach we are (intentionally or not) perpetuating the myth of sacrificing your life for your company. i did that with my 20s and a chunk of my 30s. would not recommend. live your life, you only get one trip through and sometimes the body doesn&#x27;t hold up well enough to keep enjoying all the things you love.
didibusalmost 4 years ago
What I&#x27;d like to see first is:<p>&quot;Why work hard&quot;<p>To me, it seems that if we&#x27;ve put ourselves in a society that requires hard work, we&#x27;ve failed somewhere along the way, when do you run a business and value making things harder for customers? So if we&#x27;ve made societal success hard, we&#x27;ve kind of failed as a society in my opinion.
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contingenciesalmost 4 years ago
It all boils down to motivation and what you want out of life. Compound interest is great but health and youth never return, and the opportunities of today are not always here tomorrow.<p>(That said, I have been at it since 4:30AM today and working on a single venture for six years in extreme adversity. Anything else would be boring!)
SerLavaalmost 4 years ago
Billionaires absolutely love talking about zero work life balance. Makes it seem like having rich parents, stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars of computing time, committing federal crimes, abusing patent law, and blatantly violating antitrust weren&#x27;t the important parts.<p>Because they only want you to do the overwork part.
tempsonalmost 4 years ago
Really happy to read that most readers are critical about this article. This article is extremely shortsighted! Kids don’t fall for this trap. Life is about people and relationships.<p>p.s. Steve Jobs is already forgotten. Bill Gates will be joining that list too. Now that we know his dirty secrets, fastet than expected.
philmcpalmost 4 years ago
I prefer to focus on efficiency, rather than hours worked (i.e. effort). It results in a better work &#x2F; life balance imo<p>I actually just posted this article on HN today:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;4dayweek.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;how-to-code-faster" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;4dayweek.io&#x2F;blog&#x2F;how-to-code-faster</a>
silent_calalmost 4 years ago
The &quot;hard work&quot; meme always made me feel awful, and I never knew why until I read &quot;Leisure: the Basis of Culture&quot;. It&#x27;s a philosophical book that explains the origin of this impulse to work for work&#x27;s sake. It&#x27;s a modern phenomenon, and it&#x27;s not good.
aerosmilealmost 4 years ago
A common tension we experience with PG&#x27;s recent essays is that they make you wonder if you fit into his world (the way that Patrick Collison, Kyle Vogt, Sam Altman and other well-known founders do). Those stories usually contain elements of above-natural raw talent combined with insane amounts of hard work and the foresight to channel all that talent and effort into development of highly valuable skills. There are a good amount of people like that out there, and his writing deeply resonates with them. At the same time, there are many more people out there who quickly discover that their lives have very few overlaps with PG&#x27;s narrative.<p>For example, perhaps they started a startup and got burned (contrary to PG&#x27;s narrative). Or they never cared for any skills that one traditionally needs to build a digital product (primarily programming, design, and the intercept between the two in form of a well-rounded PM). Or worse yet, their career took them into the analog world, with all the pros and cons of that universe. Last but not least, perhaps they just simply value the benefits of starting a family and providing for them with a low-to-moderate but predictable and stable income.<p>If you belong to that latter group, no way that PG will resonate with you, similar to how Karl Marx won&#x27;t be a favorite author for a monarchist or Rush Limbaugh for a Democrat. Or those people right or wrong? It depends on who you ask. It&#x27;s the same with PG - we just have to come to understand that the startup world is a polarizing ideology that works for some and not for others. I bet you that any founder out there that made money with a startup is quite likely to like PG&#x27;s writing. Conversely, if you tried and didn&#x27;t succeed (or never even wanted to give it a shot), it would be more difficult for you to align your thinking with PG&#x27;s.
graycatalmost 4 years ago
It appears to me that Graham&#x27;s essay is missing information and emphasis on one more crucial input to doing &quot;great work&quot; or being successful at all. That input is the importance of and good approaches to<p>===&gt;&gt;&gt; Good Problem Selection &lt;&lt;&lt;===<p>including good initial problem selection.
humanalmost 4 years ago
“ Now, when I&#x27;m not working hard, alarm bells go off. I can&#x27;t be sure I&#x27;m getting anywhere when I&#x27;m working hard, but I can be sure I&#x27;m getting nowhere when I&#x27;m not, and it feels awful.”<p>I recognize this feeling, but oh god, it’s a perfect recipe for a burnout.
aroundtownalmost 4 years ago
It is too common to see the well off capitalists extol the virtues of hard work, usually as a means unto itself, ignoring the reward.<p>They often say, you peasants could be like me if only you understood how to work hard, while completely ignoring the fact that not everybody is fairly compensated for their hard work.<p>I wish I was in such a good position that I could spend 5 hours a day writing about whatever self-indulgent topics I&#x27;m feeling while being able to pat myself on the back and call it a hard days work.
adverblyalmost 4 years ago
Good read! Great points Paul!<p>Thanks for taking the time to write this up and share your thoughts :D<p>As someone who leans towards &quot;Work Smart, Not Hard&quot;, I had the following thoughts while reading this:<p>&gt; Bill Gates... Lionel Messi...<p>These are very interesting examples, and I don&#x27;t think I actually would have said that either of them actually did any &quot;great work&quot;. What they have in common is what they are both &quot;top of their field&quot; in fields which are highly competitive&#x2F;winner-take-all, and therefore get an insanely disproportionate amount of compensation.<p>When I think &quot;Great Work&quot;, I think of scientists and inventors. Interestingly enough, many scientists and inventors were &quot;all over the place&quot; with their careers - many of them being polymaths who pursued a number of diverse hobbies. They often also spent time &quot;idle&quot;, or &quot;thinking&quot;(Feynman was a good example of this), which is how I find that I do my best thinking as well. I see creative work as benefiting significantly from &quot;not work&quot; activities such as idleness. Steve Jobs had a similar line of thinking:<p>&gt; Creativity is just connecting things. When you ask creative people how they did something, they feel a little guilty because they didn’t really do it, they just saw something. It seemed obvious to them after a while. That’s because they were able to connect experiences they’ve had and synthesize new things. And the reason they were able to do that was that they’ve had more experiences or they have thought more about their experiences than other people.<p>In summary, although hard work can capture more value in winner-take-all environments, I think creative work creates more value, and creative work requires taking frequent breaks, and yes, a healthy amount of idleness.
triceratopsalmost 4 years ago
&gt; P. G. Wodehouse would probably get my vote for best English writer of the 20th century, if I had to choose.<p>The guy who wrote about a hapless nobleman and his butler is a better writer than Aldous Huxley, George Orwell, Arthur C. Clarke, George MacDonald Fraser, or John Le Carre?
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agomez314almost 4 years ago
The correlation between working hard and being successful is a necessary but not sufficient cause.
Sophistifunkalmost 4 years ago
When people like PG give this advice, it serves two purposes; makes them feel a little better about everybody they ignored growing up, and makes you feel like maybe you&#x27;ll be a billionaire one day if you just put in 80 hour weeks for this other billionaire.<p>You won&#x27;t.
abxytgalmost 4 years ago
The older I get and the more I read this stuff... I just think man PG... your priorities suck!
theshadowknowsalmost 4 years ago
There’s that line from COD that I’m sure is from somewhere else - amateurs practice until they can get it right, professionals practice until they can’t get it wrong. That’s sort of how I look at it. It’s served me well so far.
hindsightbiasalmost 4 years ago
Live-to-work or work-to-live.<p>There are probably few on HN (in the US) who don’t have either option. Figure it out now or let your boss decide for you.<p>And if you think you can do a startup and work-to-live, you’re an idiot. So start over now.
Aerroonalmost 4 years ago
Is the ability to work hard also a &quot;talent&quot;?<p>ADHD seems like it impairs most of the (useful) hard work somebody could dedicate themselves to. Could there also be a scale of this that&#x27;s unrelated to ADHD?
crypticaalmost 4 years ago
These days, it&#x27;s not difficult to create products that are far better than your main competitors&#x27; products in every respect. The hard part is merely getting the attention of customers so that they know that your product exists...<p>It&#x27;s extremely difficult to create this scenario whereby a prospective customer will actually compare your product against a competitor&#x27;s product. If people were more open to experiment, it would be easy but network effects are just too strong. Likely propped reinforced by endless money printing.<p>Infinite money printing just allows the economy to maintain its structure forever. The winners always get bailed out so they always stay winners and the losers always have their competitors bailed out so they always stay losers.
momirlanalmost 4 years ago
People might really believe that this is all it takes. However we know there&#x27;s a secret sauce : luck. You can work as hard as you want, if luck is not on your side you won&#x27;t get far.
guhsnamihalmost 4 years ago
Am I the only one who is having to work hard to understand the article?
canada_dryalmost 4 years ago
&gt; natural ability, practice, and effort<p>I&#x27;d argue that perseverance (vs practice) is a better partner in that combination.<p>Practice suggests doing the same thing over-and-over.<p>Perseverance is never giving up when there are road blocks.
MarcelOlszalmost 4 years ago
I worked hard in my 20&#x27;s with nothing to show for it. Not born into connections or money. I know almost nobody that has a degree. Spent years on my own startup with my ex-ceo being a code monkey for him whos richer and more connected than me. Poof, 4 years of income and work gone. Now I can&#x27;t even find a job. How exactly, am I supposed to &quot;work hard&quot;? It is a complete meme. Also funny he uses Gates as an example, a man born into wealth.<p>I tried working hard and wasted 100% of every day of my 20&#x27;s. No memories formed, no money made, just &quot;working hard&quot;.<p>Here&#x27;s how you work hard: grow up in a stable life with money and connections and win the mental health lottery.
dimitrios1almost 4 years ago
&gt; how to work toward goals that are neither clearly defined nor externally imposed.<p>This is the crux of the entire article, in my opinion. Still haven&#x27;t figured this out after all these years.<p>How?
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codeisawesomealmost 4 years ago
Mods are doing a good job these days putting up two articles talking about opposite-ish viewpoints on the front page it feels very intentional and it is interesting.
asimjalisalmost 4 years ago
I have noticed that “what I work on” is more significant than “how many hours I spend working”. You have to be pointing the right way, not just going fast.
bradoralmost 4 years ago
June 2021 for anyone wondering if this is new. Would be nice if we could get that date stamp into the title. Sometimes PG essays are reposted. Dang?
neilvalmost 4 years ago
If this piece had section headings, I would&#x27;ve read more of it.<p>Perhaps I missed the meta, and PG wanted the reader to work hard to read it?
justinatoralmost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s very shocking to read this and not even mention how supportive the privilege of <i>starting out wealthy</i> is. Hard work looks different if there&#x27;s no where to go up or out.
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zz865almost 4 years ago
Does PG ever spend time with his children? I always feel I should be working harder which makes spending time with family difficult.
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ameliusalmost 4 years ago
For most people, the challenge is not how to work hard. The challenge is how to work hard and get compensated for it properly.
crossroadsguyalmost 4 years ago
Duh. This is just a “hard work propaganda” piece. Some parts just read like “Believe in Jesus or your limbs will start melting away!”. Just like that.<p>Is this how venture capitalists have always functioned, or is it a new kind of initiative? Is there some kind of threat they perceive seeing many people, organisations, and even some nations talk about work-life balance (et cetera)?<p>Besides, is this what pg essays are all about? So much brouhaha for this? I have read one more of these 1-2 years ago or so and it was the same feeling. No wonder I’ve never encountered these writings or talk about them anywhere out of the HN.
bloqsalmost 4 years ago
No PG you are presenting speculative opinion as fact. Conscientiousness is a measured and well documented personality trait, it is also formed around age six. It also happens to be social in its construction.<p>Software engineers typically report lower than average Conscientiousness, because the more complex the task, the less it has an impact. It&#x27;s also negatively correlated with IQ.<p>Suggesting it is a choice is demonstrably wrong. It is environmentally learned by the age of roughly 6.
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asdfman123almost 4 years ago
Paul Graham has really good stuff to say about things he knows about.<p>(And really bad stuff to say about things he doesn&#x27;t.)
tony2016almost 4 years ago
I have a wide screen. His left side smaller width articles are freaking annoying!! Inconvenient to read.
fierroalmost 4 years ago
Reading this makes me think of the quite &quot;If you&#x27;re so smart, then why are you unhappy?&quot;
s5300almost 4 years ago
Oh PG. You&#x27;re so damn loathsome
amaialmost 4 years ago
Rich people who work hard are the exception. Most of them just inherit hard ( or marry hard ).
sidcoolalmost 4 years ago
John Carmack read a draft of this.
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whatdidinustalmost 4 years ago
This article has more than quadrupled my existing opinion that the concept of hard work is largely a fabrication designed to show off to other people.<p>If anyone’s seriously read this article end to end and didn’t conclude: “Wow, Paul is really struggling to back this up.” You might be in junior high.<p>The reality is that inflation and monetary policy combined with degradation of schools means you have to play a completely different life game to succeed now. And “working hard” while being a waiter or bartender isn’t going to get you there.<p>Paul is really trying to avoid the fact that unless you are gaining extremely highly valued skills in the exact right industry at the exact right schools at the exact right time, working hard is a complete waste of time. And everyone can feel it at a gut level.<p>People know when their work isn’t going to be rewarded. And in this era, you won’t be rewarded 90% of the time for Most skills or most efforts.
wantsanagentalmost 4 years ago
&quot;Natural ability&quot; is a cop-out and PG should know better. It&#x27;d be fine if this came with a disclaimer, &quot;we don&#x27;t know what natural ability is and the more we learn the more complex and diverse this umbrella term becomes.&quot; But taking it at face value is fuzzy thinking. It feels like this was included to hedge his bets.<p>The Polgar sisters(1) serve as evidence that while &quot;natural ability&quot; may be a thing it&#x27;s even less important than you might imagine. Instead this and work like that of Ericsson(2) on the development of expertise point to repeatable environmental factors for success.<p>I look forward to a day when we can eliminate this phrase and replace it with measurable phenomena and repeatable processes.<p>(1) - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Judit_Polg%C3%A1r" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Judit_Polg%C3%A1r</a><p>(2) - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;smile.amazon.com&#x2F;Cambridge-Expertise-Performance-Handbooks-Psychology&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0521600812&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;smile.amazon.com&#x2F;Cambridge-Expertise-Performance-Han...</a>
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mjh2539almost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s like the Protestant work ethic, but denuded of any religious connotations.
jeffwassalmost 4 years ago
“ There&#x27;s a faint xor between talent and hard work.”<p>I love this techie yet insightful quote.
aliceryhlalmost 4 years ago
Typo:<p>&gt; There may be some people do who, but I think my experience is fairly typical
oolonthegreatalmost 4 years ago
urgh all this &quot;working very very hard&quot; glorifying talk makes me feel nauseated. science and creativity stems from leisure and idleness. not working very very hard.
adamnemecekalmost 4 years ago
Working hard is relatively easier if you care about the work.
edderlyalmost 4 years ago
I find the mentions of Messi, Newton, Mozart and Wodehouse bizarre. The essay is similar to Malcolm Gladwell&#x27;s 10,000 hour theory, whether you agree or not, at worst Gladwell is writing a journalistic think piece.<p>Here though, is Graham credibly putting himself in the same category as Mozart? Dropping a reference to Patrick Collison, who no one outside of tech would have a clue who that is in the same breath as you namedrop Newton?
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deeblering4almost 4 years ago
How to write an article best displayed at 640x480
jimbokunalmost 4 years ago
Being able to decide what to work on requires a certain amount of privilege, as opposed to needing to do whatever you can to pay for rent, bills, and groceries this month.
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tester756almost 4 years ago
Consistency is a key<p>That&#x27;s what games taught me, weird.
kaladin_1almost 4 years ago
Nice one!<p>While you might not always agree with Paul but his writing usually reflects something that has been deeply thought out. I can almost see a man walking and thinking...
ipnonalmost 4 years ago
pg&#x27;s writing is still improving. That&#x27;s impressive for someone who has been writing as long as him.
kstenerudalmost 4 years ago
The true ah-ha moment comes when you finally realize how much bullshit this is.<p>&quot;Hard work&quot; is the mantra that keeps you a slave. &quot;Success stories&quot; are the tasty carrots that keep you toiling away your best years enriching others in pursuit of the things you&#x27;re supposed to seek in life: Power, success, status. &quot;Life hacks&quot; are little dopamine hits to keep your eye on the carrot.<p>And the kicker is that those few who actually do attain these things mistakenly attribute it to their own prowess, when it&#x27;s mostly luck and circumstance with a smattering of ambition and striking deals in the right networks. They then take it upon themselves to perpetuate the system that now feeds them at your expense.<p>So you go on toiling away, pushing that wheel around and around for years as your masters feed you stories of their success and a promise of your own one-day-someday, until eventually you hopefully realize the futility of enriching these parasites, and get off their treadmill.<p>The proletariat are only useful to the rich if they&#x27;re toiling for them.<p>Edit: In case you&#x27;re wondering why this tanked to the bottom of the comments despite being at 38 points after 30 minutes, it&#x27;s because the admins can artificially drop a comment&#x27;s priority if they don&#x27;t like it, and prevent further upvotes (downvotes still work though).
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PaulDavisThe1stalmost 4 years ago
Long, Hard, Smart - pick 2 out of 3.
nickd2001almost 4 years ago
I think this is a fantastic discussion, one of the best I ever read on HN. :) Its a provocative article, for sure! Very good for people to ask whether they should work hard, why they should work hard, and at what. A good recent example I feel of someone who works extremely hard and its 100% worth it, is Prof Sarah Gilbert, the person behind the Oxford-Astra-Zeneca covid vaccine, which BTW has a Malaria vaccine on the heels of it which would be amazing.
luggedalmost 4 years ago
Please stop using invisible grey.
matakozapanyaalmost 4 years ago
find it hard to take life advice from some dude who got lucky in the dotcom, has done nothing of note since and actively supports sexist, racist people as &quot;he&#x27;s not a bad guy&quot;.<p>Find it even harder to take seriously a treatise on &quot;work hard&quot; when the underlying message is &quot;make ME wealth, bitch &quot;.<p>Paul can go fuck himself.
mapgrepalmost 4 years ago
&gt; I had to learn what real work was before I could wholeheartedly desire to do it. That took a while, because even in college a lot of the work is pointless; there are entire departments that are pointless.<p>In other words, &quot;the work I want to do is real but the work you want to do is trivial and pointless.&quot;<p>I really genuinely have enjoyed Paul Graham&#x27;s writing over the years but moments like this seem arrogant and tend to spoil some of the enjoyment. I&#x27;d be genuinely curious to know what departments he finds pointless, and why, in the grand scheme of things, they have no &quot;point&quot; in comparison to computer science or whatever.<p>While it&#x27;s true that computer science can be used to enable, for example, much cheaper air travel, or important forms of cancer diagnosis, it&#x27;s also true that a great many computer scientists work on less crucial problems like optimizing ad targeting or enabling scams.<p>Similarly, while many English lit majors may end up contributing little most of us find valuable in that field, there are some who will become authors who genuinely help other humans find more meaning in life and feel less alone, and others who will shed new light on history and thiis contribute to the understanding of our present.<p>I&#x27;m not saying fields can&#x27;t be compared. Maybe the average engineer&#x27;s college studies help society &quot;more&quot; (for some definition) than the average humanities major&#x27;s studies do. Fine. What I&#x27;m saying is - it takes a lot of arrogance to cast aside entire college departments as worthless.
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ok_cooalmost 4 years ago
I do not dream of labor.
oriettaxxalmost 4 years ago
in Italy you would say: &quot;ma va in miniera!&quot;
danielkynealmost 4 years ago
PG never misses
nathan_comptonalmost 4 years ago
Huge surprise that the quintessential capitalist _just so happens_ to write an essay suggesting that you should never stop working at any moment of your entire life.
adminscoffeealmost 4 years ago
i might need to read how to relax
doublejay1999almost 4 years ago
america has a chronic work fetish
peter_d_shermanalmost 4 years ago
I would like to start out by saying that I am a great fan of Paul Graham, his work, his essays, YCombinator, HN, etc., etc.<p>However, I have to sharply, and I mean sharply disagree with this one essay...<p>You see, I will put this essay against one from antiquity, and that one is the 5th Labor Of Hercules:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.perseus.tufts.edu&#x2F;Herakles&#x2F;stables.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.perseus.tufts.edu&#x2F;Herakles&#x2F;stables.html</a><p>&gt;&quot;Hercules went to King Augeas, and without telling anything about Eurystheus, said that he would clean out the stables in one day, if Augeas would give him a tenth of his fine cattle.<p>Augeas couldn&#x27;t believe his ears, but promised. Hercules brought Augeas&#x27;s son along to watch. First the hero tore a big opening in the wall of the cattle-yard where the stables were. Then he made another opening in the wall on the opposite side of the yard.<p><i>Next, he dug wide trenches to two rivers which flowed nearby. He turned the course of the rivers into the yard. The rivers rushed through the stables, flushing them out, and all the mess flowed out the hole in the wall on other side of the yard.</i>&quot;<p>PDS: See, King Augeas was expecting that Hercules would clean up the stables the old-fashioned way -- by using his strength to clean them out manually.<p>King Augeas was expecting that Hercules <i>work hard</i> for him.<p>Hercules did <i>work hard</i>, but additionally, Hercules also <i>worked smart</i> -- by digging only what was necessary to direct the river or rivers -- and letting the flowing water, letting nature itself -- do all of the work!<p>Now compare this to MapReduce.<p>Compare this to Jeff Dean of Google, and all that he does.<p>Jeff Dean and MapReduce leverage computation power (think of them as the streams of water) -- to do all of the &quot;Heavy Lifting&quot;.<p>They work hard -- but they <i>also work smart</i>.<p>They utilize an infrastructure (Hercules with the water from a river, Jeff Dean wtih the power from distributed computing&#x2F;distributed queries&#x2F;MapReduce, etc.) which when skillfully directed, at their hands, performs all of the hard work for them...<p>They <i>work smart</i>.<p>Now this being said, I&#x27;ll close by saying that I am Paul Graham&#x27;s greatest fan -- I think he is one of the greatest intellectuals in the world today! And I agree with 99.44% of everything else that he has so wisely and eloquently said or written in the past!<p>And I love his essays, YCombinator, HN, etc., etc.!!!<p>But we <i>slightly disagree</i> -- on this one! &lt;g&gt;<p>In a friendly way, of course! &lt;g&gt;
rendallalmost 4 years ago
Meh. This isn&#x27;t a guide on how to work hard, tbh, unless &quot;wake up at 13 with the will to work hard&quot; is a guide. &quot;Be like Bill Gates&quot; is no guide.<p>Give me a guide by someone who grew up a slacker, fucked off deep into adulthood and <i>then</i> learnt or taught themselves the hard lessons on working hard. What to do when you want to sleep in, when you want to stay out late, when you have such aching, gnawing anxiety about going to class that even looking at the textbook is ... hey look, Witcher Season 2 is on. A person who had been through that shit can talk about &quot;how to work hard&quot;
theptipalmost 4 years ago
I think the Hamming piece that circulates here infrequently is very insightful:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.virginia.edu&#x2F;~robins&#x2F;YouAndYourResearch.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.virginia.edu&#x2F;~robins&#x2F;YouAndYourResearch.html</a><p>&gt; Now for the matter of drive. You observe that most great scientists have tremendous drive. I worked for ten years with John Tukey at Bell Labs. He had tremendous drive. One day about three or four years after I joined, I discovered that John Tukey was slightly younger than I was. John was a genius and I clearly was not. Well I went storming into Bode&#x27;s office and said, ``How can anybody my age know as much as John Tukey does?&#x27;&#x27; He leaned back in his chair, put his hands behind his head, grinned slightly, and said, ``You would be surprised Hamming, how much you would know if you worked as hard as he did that many years.&#x27;&#x27; I simply slunk out of the office!<p>&gt; What Bode was saying was this: ``Knowledge and productivity are like compound interest.&#x27;&#x27; Given two people of approximately the same ability and one person who works ten percent more than the other, the latter will more than twice outproduce the former. The more you know, the more you learn; the more you learn, the more you can do; the more you can do, the more the opportunity - it is very much like compound interest. I don&#x27;t want to give you a rate, but it is a very high rate. Given two people with exactly the same ability, the one person who manages day in and day out to get in one more hour of thinking will be tremendously more productive over a lifetime. I took Bode&#x27;s remark to heart; I spent a good deal more of my time for some years trying to work a bit harder and I found, in fact, I could get more work done. I don&#x27;t like to say it in front of my wife, but I did sort of neglect her sometimes; I needed to study. You have to neglect things if you intend to get what you want done. There&#x27;s no question about this.<p>On the other hand, I would also recommend caution here -- I strongly believe that some people simply have a much higher capacity&#x2F;tolerance for work. John Carmack appears to have been able to sustain 80-hour weeks without burning out. I can&#x27;t. I don&#x27;t feel bad about this gap. This observation is pretty mundane; it&#x27;s exactly the same way that the average person&#x27;s psyche or physique simply can&#x27;t tolerate the training workload of an olympic athlete.<p>&quot;Work harder&quot; might be the right advice for someone who has excess capacity that they are not using. It might be terrible advice for someone who is already trending towards burnout working 50-hour weeks when their capacity is 40-hour weeks. There&#x27;s an element of self-knowledge required to honestly evaluate yourself and determine exactly how capable you are. (Of course -- push yourself sometimes. You might surprise yourself. I personally think it&#x27;s a good experience to have pushed up against burnout on a project I care about, to know what my limits are. But I don&#x27;t aspire to ride that line in perpetuity.)
imafishalmost 4 years ago
This post was too long compared to its substance.<p>tldr: To do great things, you need to be both hard-working and smart.
andagainagainalmost 4 years ago
So many things annoy me about this sort of self-help guru vagueness.<p>&quot;One thing I know is that if you want to do great things, you&#x27;ll have to work very hard&quot; - this is not true. You have to work, but the &quot;hard&quot; part implies that stress is important. Stress is incidental - everyone experiences stress regardless of work. I learned years ago that high achievers don&#x27;t experience more stress... an in fact they tend to rephrase problems to give them LESS stress. They work, but they purposely make those things less stressful. The work itself, from their perspective isn&#x27;t &quot;hard&quot; at all.<p>&quot;There are three ingredients to great work: natural ability, practice, and effort&quot;. These aren&#x27;t separate things! Natural ability is learned just like anything else. It&#x27;s a set of skills that you develop through building your own ways of thinking. You get those through practice. And for some, that effort is often negligible for one reason or another - experiences and thoughts that they have because of emotions or places they grew up or what context they relate to. I could go on for hours about this specific topic.<p>&quot;And yet Bill Gates sounds even more extreme. Not one day off in ten years?&quot; - A surprising number of people do this anyways. If it&#x27;s not stressful to them, it&#x27;s not effort... it&#x27;s just what you do. By the way, most of these people don&#x27;t become rich. Why? It&#x27;s not because of &quot;natural ability&quot; or &quot;lack of practice and effort&quot;. It&#x27;s because their daily work covers things that aren&#x27;t, directly, money. &quot;Cows got to get fed&quot; or &quot;lawn has to be mowed&quot; or &quot;kids need to be watched&quot; or &quot;spend a bit of time on something that I actually like&quot;. For Bill Gates, that &quot;just what you do&quot; was probably &quot;work on microsoft&quot;. And if it failed, he&#x27;s publically said that yeah, his backup plan was to go back to Harvard, becuase that was of course an option for him. Relatively speaking, it wasn&#x27;t a super high risk decision.<p>&quot;Now, when I&#x27;m not working hard, alarm bells go off. I can&#x27;t be sure I&#x27;m getting anywhere when I&#x27;m working hard, but I can be sure I&#x27;m getting nowhere when I&#x27;m not, and it feels awful&quot;. This sounds, honestly, quite unhealthy. It&#x27;s &quot;feel pain now because reasons. I have multiple theories on how this sort of thought process comes around. For example, When we can&#x27;t relax during our downtime, or we don&#x27;t actually get the rewards of our labor.<p>But you notice that outside of constructed work environments (like school, or any job where you have a direct boss), this doesn&#x27;t happen. Those who practice violin practice until they&#x27;re done practicing, then they relax, then they come back later and practice some more. They don&#x27;t half-ass practice, because there isn&#x27;t a point to that. If you&#x27;re practicing, it&#x27;s not &quot;so that I can work hard, and if I don&#x27;t I feel guilty&quot;. Instead it&#x27;s &quot;I need to polish this one part of the song&quot; or &quot;I&#x27;m struggling with my fingering here&quot; or maybe even &quot;I&#x27;m going to play with this section of the song, it seems fun&quot;. Note - it&#x27;s not pointless work. So &quot;I&#x27;m working, but not working hard&quot; just... doesn&#x27;t happen. Because why would it? That doesn&#x27;t make the song better, it doesn&#x27;t make you better.<p>The more I go through the article, the more I just think the goals are getting tripped up by a combination of external forces that take up mental resources, and a mental model where the stress of the situation determines the quality of the product.<p>I have tons of suggestions (I trimmed this comment down and rewrote it 3 times already). The big one though I think is learning to roll with what matters. Do everything you&#x27;re doing, and then take a break, and then do it again. Honestly, unless you get into the nitty gritty details, It&#x27;s really a lot simpler than people think.
hellbannedguyalmost 4 years ago
I think Paul Graham is a brilliant programmer. This site coded in Lisp is unbelievable. I&#x27;m being honest. One of my current goals is wanting to learn Lisp, and I thank Paul for that.<p>He&#x27;s a C writer though. (We all can&#x27;t be good at evertyhing. Personally, I have never met a person from a wealthy upbringing who could write well.)<p>It&#x27;s too long, and I&#x27;m still not sure what he is saying?<p>I can offer this, but it&#x27;s for ambitious poor&#x2F;middle class people.<p>Work hard at getting ahead. I worked through school, and got out with a B average.<p>If you are poor getting through college, or starting a business, will not be as easy as the guy who has the wealthy sympathetic father, or mother who sits on the company Board of Directors when they are buying your company. (Easy shot a Bill Gates?)<p>What am I saying? If you are poor, life will be harder.<p>You know it already. You know you can&#x27;t make too many mistakes early on.<p>You know there will be no one to help when the chips are down.<p>You won&#x27;t be offered jobs, or perks in life because of your family name.<p>You know you will need to work harder than Biff, or Charles.<p>I did everything I was suspose to do in college. I made every class count, even though I knew most of it was a joke.<p>I then had a nervous breakdown.<p>Looking back, I think I should have concentrated on socializing a bit more. I should have networked more too.<p>In all honestly, I didn&#x27;t like kids from wealthy families. I found them boring, and unimaginative.<p>Those wealthy kids usually become wealthy adults though, and those connections will be important later on. I still want to upchuck even thinking about using a person to get ahead though.
TameAntelopealmost 4 years ago
This feels like the kind of essay describing a thing that, if you have to be told about it, you don&#x27;t have it.<p>I&#x27;m on HN during my work day. People who &quot;work hard&quot; probably aren&#x27;t. They probably only know about pg through direct connections, not through idly scrolling the Internet bored one day.
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mdomsalmost 4 years ago
Every person I&#x27;ve ever met who claims to be one of these hard workers who puts in 70 hours a week and never takes time off always seem to be taking mid-week holidays to Bali, golfing on sunny Tuesday afternoons etc. It&#x27;s all a big show.
Sr_developeralmost 4 years ago
&gt; It was similar with Lionel Messi. He had great natural ability, but when his youth coaches talk about him, what they remember is not his talent but his dedication and his desire to win.<p>This is not true, everyone who knows even just a little bit about football (I suppose not many people here) would know Messi was the preternatural talent (not like he has not worked hard, but his talent is by far his biggest asset), it is C Ronaldo in any case who is a totally dedicated person to training.<p>You dont do this at 8-10 because you are a &quot;hard-worker&quot;, you do it because you won the genetic lottery:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=0j9POXpurPU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=0j9POXpurPU</a><p>As always, the Gell-Mann amnesia effect in full effect.
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kaimoridalmost 4 years ago
wow