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The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

442 pointsby pcestradaalmost 14 years ago

27 comments

MrFoofalmost 14 years ago
A few things.<p>First, as mentioned in the article, the Museum of Modern Art in NYC will be featuring Dwarf Fortress as part of its "Talk to Me" exhibit. The exhibit will be open from July 24th through November 7th. <a href="http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1080" rel="nofollow">http://www.moma.org/visit/calendar/exhibitions/1080</a><p>Second, for those looking to get into the game, the two recommended video tutorials are SippyCup's (humorous) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/51ppycup" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/51ppycup</a>, and Captain Duck's (down to business) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/captnduck#p/a/u/1/yn1iW1QN7_s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/user/captnduck#p/a/u/1/yn1iW1QN7_s</a>.<p>-----<p>Tarn has The Fisherman Parable philosophy and I have a <i>tremendous</i> amount of respect for that. Doing what you love, no matter the "sacrifice", above everything else. He's probably the biggest reason why I've been working on the side to try to create my own games, so I can get the heck out of finance and do what I wanted to since I was 6 years old. Until that works out for me, I send a monthly donation to ensure that at least <i>someone</i> can fulfill their dream.
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jgfootalmost 14 years ago
Very interesting: "Tarn sees his work in stridently ethical terms. He calls games like Angry Birds or Bejeweled, which ensnare players in addictive loops of frustration and gratification under the pretense that skill is required to win, 'abusive' -- a common diagnosis among those who get hooked on the games, but a surprising one from a game designer, ostensibly charged with doing the hooking. 'Many popular games tap into something in a person that is compulsive, like hoarding,' he said, 'the need to make progress with points or collect things. You sit there saying yeah-yeah-yeah and then you wake up and say, What the hell was I doing? You can call that kind of game fun, but only if you call compulsive gambling fun.' He added: 'I used to value the ability to turn the user into your slave. I don’t anymore.'"
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DanielBMarkhamalmost 14 years ago
Some notes:<p>First, these guys are the real hackers. Not Carmack, Woz, Bill, or Zuck, or all the super-cool guys that made the bucks and then coasted (technically). These guys are living the life just because they love it. They're a much better representation of the inner hacker in all of us than those stories of riches and fame. I got the impression they would continue doing this no matter what their financial circumstances.<p>Second, they've done their time. Somebody should set them up with an annuity so they can a) continue, b) learn to live without worrying about money, and c) tell stories to kids 40 years from now about how it all came together<p>Third, this article left me gobsmacked. I'm left with one conclusion: this is art. If you're collecting these crayon receipts? Save them. They're going to be worth something one day.<p>Of course, just like the game plays out, it might all amount to nothing. If I had to bet about the value of their work, I'd say it drops off short-term (next 20 years) then becomes super valuable around 2030 or so. This seems to be the pattern with semi-famous labors of love with cult followings. Seriously. Save whatever you can get from these guys.<p>Very cool story.
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Natsualmost 14 years ago
I've never heard of other games spawning threads like these:<p><a href="http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77736.0" rel="nofollow">http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=77736.0</a><p><a href="http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82309.0" rel="nofollow">http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82309.0</a><p><a href="http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76007.0" rel="nofollow">http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76007.0</a><p><a href="http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80022.0" rel="nofollow">http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80022.0</a><p>I've never seen other games where people use that as a reason to study geology, farming, beekeeping or whatnot. One person, not satisfied with the material properties of Saguaro wood and unable to find good data online went so far as to track down a sample and measure them.<p>One person even mentioned that they neglected to study for their geology test and played Dwarf Fortress instead. They got an extremely high score because so many of the questions were relevant to DF, such as asking for the names of common iron ores. Any good DF player can list at least magnetite, limonite and hematite without any trouble.
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dpritchettalmost 14 years ago
Don't miss the chance to read through the "Boatmurdered" Dwarf Fortress succession campaign:<p><i>Perhaps most fascinating are the stories that fans share online, recounting their dwarven travails in detailed and sometimes illustrated narratives. In a 2006 saga, called Boatmurdered, fans passed around a single fortress — one player would save a game, send the file to another player and so on, relay-race style — while documenting its colorful descent into oblivion. (After a vicious elephant attack: “A single untrained marksdwarf stands ready to defend the crossing, but I doubt he’ll be enough.”) Boatmurdered spread across gaming sites and made the front page of MetaFilter, a popular blog. “That did a lot to make people aware we existed,” Tarn says.</i><p><a href="http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Boatmurdered/" rel="nofollow">http://lparchive.org/Dwarf-Fortress-Boatmurdered/</a>
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pohlalmost 14 years ago
My teenage son - who, raised right, grew up on Nethack - absolutely loves this game, and will occasionally stay up all night and be found still feverishly working on some elaborate construction in the morning. From what I have seen, it is ASCII crack.<p><i>edit: I guess it's modified code-page-437 crack:</i><p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_page_437</a><p><i>edit again: This article really is a very interesting story behind the development. Even if you don't play, it's worth reading.</i>
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jokermatt999almost 14 years ago
If you're ever worried that a feature will be too complex to implement, take a look at the ridiculous number of things Dwarf Fortress keeps track of and simulates some time. The article briefly touches on it, but like any look at Dwarf Fortress, it bared dips its toes in the water. Just a quick list off the top of my head...<p>In world gen, it simulates geology and erosion, climate/biomes, growing civilizations, politics, war, trade, attacks by various "megabeast" creatures and their battles (in which injuries down to losing a tooth will be kept track of), migration and refuges as a result of war, (I believe) deforestation as a result of logging, and probably a lot more that I'm forgetting. That's just in <i>world generation</i>, before you're actually playing it.<p>Remember, what one person can program when they're truly dedicated is a pretty incredible feat.
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joshkleinalmost 14 years ago
For those of you who are seeing this for the first time and have any love for games like Minecraft, Civilization, etc... please take the time to break through the very steep learning curve to give this game a fair shake. It is truly a work of art.<p>Please note that the Wiki helps make the game playable: <a href="http://df.magmawiki.com/" rel="nofollow">http://df.magmawiki.com/</a>
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mvzinkalmost 14 years ago
Having never been really involved with the Dwarf Fortress community/cult, but having played the game quite a bit, this exposé on the creator is extremely interesting. I always thought it must have taken a certain level of cleverness to build such an impressive simulation, but I honestly didn't think he'd be a Stanford Ph.D. Also, I'm honestly surprised they get that much in donations. It's very well deserved indeed and I'm happy to hear that they do.
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ghotlialmost 14 years ago
I have long assumed that it will eventually be unethical to turn off dwarf fortress.
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cydonian_monkalmost 14 years ago
If I had to choose a single game to play for the rest of my life, Dwarf Fortress would be an easy choice. The ability to build massively complex systems in a massively complex world appeals to the part of my brain that made me an engineer. There is so much potential in this game. So many things... hidden. So many stories to share.<p>Just watch out for the Elephants. Or Carp. Or Badgers. Or the random, world-swallowing bugs.
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bclalmost 14 years ago
Here's the game's homepage - <a href="http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/</a><p>This looks very cool, and there are versions for Linux/OSX/Win
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gnosisalmost 14 years ago
DF does have very impressive depth and game mechanics. Unfortunately, its interface is one of the worst of any game I've ever played.<p>It's a pity that DF isn't open source either, as then its interface problems would have long since been fixed. But, as it is, its lead (and only) developer doesn't seem to care enough to fix it himself.
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praptakalmost 14 years ago
Being a Nethack fan who has also lost countless hours managing civilizations, space fleets, cities, insect colonies, zombie apocalypse survivors' camps, I have three words to say:<p>Must... not... play...
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aycangulezalmost 14 years ago
I have always had an inkling that video games should be considered as applied math. According to Tarn, the author of Dwarf Fortress, who also has a Ph.D in math, making games "scratches all the same itches" as math. That sounds just right to me.
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devindotcomalmost 14 years ago
Great article. Funnily enough, the Metafilter post referenced is actually the one I put up in 2007:<p><a href="http://www.metafilter.com/63759/All-go-no-show" rel="nofollow">http://www.metafilter.com/63759/All-go-no-show</a>
jl6almost 14 years ago
For those of you worried about losing your life to another simulation game, I present:<p>How Dwarf Fortress cured me of my Dwarf Fortress addiction once and for all - even though I've never played it:<p><a href="http://james.lab6.com/2010/05/25/withdrawal/" rel="nofollow">http://james.lab6.com/2010/05/25/withdrawal/</a>
LakatosIalmost 14 years ago
Nice to see such a great game receiving some well deserved exposure.
cagefacealmost 14 years ago
Just as an aside, a game like this with deep algorithmic complexity but trivial graphics seems like a natural fit for a functional language like Scala or Haskell. I wonder why Tarn chose C++ instead. Was it just out of familiarity? With his background in math I'd imagine he'd be very comfortable in an FP language.
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anactofgodalmost 14 years ago
"Dwarf Fortress unfolds as a series of staggeringly elaborate challenges and devastating setbacks that lead, no matter how well one plays, to eventual ruin."<p>Soooo.... One can play this game, or one can be in charge of a real country's economic policies. Same outcome. ;)
shin_laoalmost 14 years ago
I seriously discourage you from checking out this game if you're on a deadline, building a startup or have any project you'd like to take on.<p>On the other hand it's a must have if you have a nuclear shelter in your backyard.
jmelloyalmost 14 years ago
I haven't played it much, but I've always felt it would make an interesting iPad game. Seems like it wouldn't be too complex to put an objective-c wrapper around the code.
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Swanniealmost 14 years ago
Nice article.<p>Reminds me a little of the two lead characters of "Makers", the Cory Doctorow book. But this is real, and mildly depressing. You want guys like this to be successful, and to have the choice to live the spartan lifestyle if they choose, or one with a better choice of food, beverage, sleeping, etc. options.<p>Sad to read that relationships are not important though :-(
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VirInvictus_almost 14 years ago
I was terribly happy to see this article all over my Twitter feed. This game is an inspiration for budding programmers, even if the game is terribly difficult to get into comfortably. I've been playing it for quite some time now. Very happy to see it.
ErikRognebyalmost 14 years ago
Wow. I thought Realm of the Mad god (<a href="http://www.realmofthemadgod.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.realmofthemadgod.com/</a>) had low-fi appeal...
petegrifalmost 14 years ago
Cool piece.
klbarryalmost 14 years ago
Dwarf Fortress is an outstanding game with features not available anywhere else, and I would highly recommend it. The background music, which the creator also composed and performed, is very soothing, as well.
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