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MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

142 pointsby tinbucketalmost 4 years ago

23 comments

crazygringoalmost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything.<p>I&#x27;m <i>assuming</i> this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago.<p>For people who aren&#x27;t aware of the difference, it&#x27;s essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes with pixel boundaries which produces sharper letterforms at the cost of distortion of the aesthetic personality of the font, while Mac antialiases more to faithfully maintain the accurate letterforms of a typeface, at the cost of being blurrier.<p>It&#x27;s basically the tabs-vs-spaces debate of font rendering. Nobody&#x27;s &quot;right&quot;, it&#x27;s just personal preference. Fortunately, high-resolution &quot;retina&quot; style displays make the distinction much less important, in the same way that it&#x27;s entirely irrelevant in high-resolution printing.
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speedgoosealmost 4 years ago
I connect my Windows 10 thinkpad and my M1 macbook to the same old 1080p external screens, and I prefer the Windows 10 text rendering. The MacOS text rendering looks a bit bolder and a bit more blurry. On the laptops screen, the high pixel density hides the difference.
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didibusalmost 4 years ago
I just switched from Windows to a Mac, and I immediately found that the colors and contrast and the clarity of images and text on the same monitor I connect my laptop too improved.<p>I wasn&#x27;t sure if it was just in my head, but something about the rendering in Mac seems better to me. I don&#x27;t know if they have better calibration for colors and contrast, better anti-aliasing, etc., but I seem to see the screen much better and my eyes don&#x27;t strain as much.
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syspecalmost 4 years ago
Any before &#x2F; after screenshots?<p>I really don&#x27;t understand when someone makes a project such as this (which seems to have been around for a while), and does not include at least 1 screenshot
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artemiszxalmost 4 years ago
A bit of context: this software is popular in China for tweaking Windows font rendering of CJK text (the author is also Chinese language-speaking). Hence the project is only fully localized in Chinese &amp; English, and that the README is fairly simple because most people searching for it already know what it is for.
keb_almost 4 years ago
Call me nuts, but I enjoy font-rendering on my Windows machines even compared to my Ubuntu laptop. I legitimately find them sharper and easier to read.
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pityJukealmost 4 years ago
MacType works nice on the surface, but using it feels like a bit of a minefield, because if it interacts incorrectly with one of your programs, it can be an annoyance, and because you&#x27;ve gotten used to the font rendering, you might not immediately realize. When playing Riot&#x27;s VALORANT, it caused massive lag spikes - and that was before I started worrying about the anticheat.
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yepthatsrealityalmost 4 years ago
I don’t use Windows anymore (Pop_os and FreeBSD) but never had an issue with how the fonts rendered. The site doesn’t seem to indicate anymore information either.
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behnamohalmost 4 years ago
I&#x27;ve been using this for a while and am quite happy with the results. Although, I had to create my own customized profile for the best results.<p>The effect is esp. obvious when working on Word documents. Somehow fonts are not rendered &quot;thick&quot; enough in Word, and this app takes care of that.<p>Honestly, I wish MS would do something about blurred fonts in some of the not-so-old programs. Some parts of the Windows OS itself are not rendered correctly!!
jbverschooralmost 4 years ago
I&#x27;ve disabled any subpixel rendering a long time ago. It&#x27;s annoying, and makes the text look weird. It&#x27;s not needed for hidpi screens. Ancient tech
jasperryalmost 4 years ago
I&#x27;m glad this is still being developed. I tried it out around the time Windows 8&#x2F;10 came out, because to my taste the Cleartype settings were much worse than in Windows 7. However, MacType didn&#x27;t help with Metro programs, or with Word 2013, in which Microsoft switched to a non-subpixel renderer for the document and made everything a jagged mess. What were they thinking?<p>As another commenter said, moving toward higher DPI makes this less necessary. But I&#x27;m still bitter over the years of ugliness I had to suffer through after having such nice Cleartype rendering in Windows XP and 7.
uranusjralmost 4 years ago
Didn’t see it mentioned yet, so I’m going to drop the link. Joel Spolsky did a very good writeup in 2007 (back when Apple released Safari for Windows) on the different font rendering strategies Mac and Windows take. MacType is, fundamentally, an attempt to implement Mac’s font rendering algorithm on Windows.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.joelonsoftware.com&#x2F;2007&#x2F;06&#x2F;12&#x2F;font-smoothing-anti-aliasing-and-sub-pixel-rendering&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.joelonsoftware.com&#x2F;2007&#x2F;06&#x2F;12&#x2F;font-smoothing-ant...</a>
rubatugaalmost 4 years ago
Good way to run into cryptic font rendering bugs.
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tambourine_manalmost 4 years ago
One of the reasons I avoided Windows all these years. It seems a little brittle though. Messing with font rendering is such a basic OS feature. I wonder if it could ever be made robust without the help from the oficial vendor.
remix2000almost 4 years ago
The best font rendering I’ve ever seen was on a ChromeOS sdpi (1360x600) netbook. I wish I’d known how to achieve that kind of rendering on an ordinary Linux computer…
mastazialmost 4 years ago
I use both Windows and Mac daily and I&#x27;m not sure that Mac font rendering is always better. Here is my experience:<p>On low DPI screens (think 24&quot; or 25&quot; at 1080p) I prefer how fonts render in Windows. It seems they have better antialiasing, while Mac fonts look slightly pixelated.<p>However on high DPI screens (13&quot; Retina, 25&quot; 4K etc.) fonts on Mac look sharper while Windows fonts look a bit &quot;soft&quot;. So I prefer Mac on those.
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thomalmost 4 years ago
Does anybody know of any studies comparing reading performance (speed&#x2F;comprehension) of various font technologies on different platforms?
lxealmost 4 years ago
I do not prefer this type of font smoothing. In fact I think that windows does a better job at it at certain 4k scaling than Mac does.
bruhsfx2almost 4 years ago
Good to see MacType discussed here.<p>This tool is more important in Chinese&#x2F;Japanese&#x2F;Korean environment as CJK glyphs have more strokes per character as compared to Latin languages. Windows&#x27;s font rendering tends to fit glyph strokes into pixels (tint).<p>On a low DPI settings (&lt;100), fonts on Windows look more sharp and clear, while on macOS, which discards the bitmaps altogether, the result is blurry (albeit I still prefer to be able to appreciate the original design).<p>On a higher DPI settings (&gt;130), IMO under normal font sizes (&gt;=10pt) the font has enough pixel realestate to <i>behave</i> like what it was designed. The antialiasing could do its job without relying the heavily hinted result.<p>Here are some comparisons.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;EhoCr9GUYAAjzMG?format=webp" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;EhoCr9GUYAAjzMG?format=webp</a> Left: AppleWin (Safari for Windows) | Right: Chromium | 12px PingFang SC on 200% system scale As you can clearly see, Apple&#x27;s font rendering makes every glyph clear enough while ensuring every stroke has the same weight, while Chromium, relying on Windows&#x27;s font rendering makes the font jagged (stroke width varies), baseline not level (遵守 on the 3rd last line, component 辶&#x27;s bottom is way up)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;EJUJZL8UYAAC7sC?format=webp&amp;name=4096x4096" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;EJUJZL8UYAAC7sC?format=webp&amp;name...</a> Left: AppleWin | Right: Chromium | 15px MS Gothic on 200% system scale MS Gothic has a very large character design, but on the first line of paragraph, 口 from &quot;口周辺&quot; is not reaching the the height it supposed to do, because of Window&#x27;s approach of fitting that stroke into a line of pixels. And Windows makes the font thinner. This approach apparently ruined every diagonal strokes like 丿 and 丶, making those strokes even fainter.<p>I have another example of Microsoft Yahei font being drastically better on 200% with MacType but I couldn&#x27;t find it at the moment.<p>It&#x27;s suffice to say that MacType will recovered the font rendering for Windows in 200% scale. However, in 100% scale, it provides fixes when Windows messed up with fonts in some cases when it purposefully fit the strokes into pixels.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;DrJStIiU0AA01uT?format=webp&amp;name=large" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;DrJStIiU0AA01uT?format=webp&amp;name...</a> Safari for Windows, 100% scale <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;DrJStMyV4AE_b6f?format=webp&amp;name=large" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pbs.twimg.com&#x2F;media&#x2F;DrJStMyV4AE_b6f?format=webp&amp;name...</a> Vivaldi, 100% scale Font rendered on Vivaldi is thin, not equal stroke width, with jagged curves. It&#x27;s miles better on Safari on Windows. Just look at the &quot;产品&quot; on the bottom left, Windows makes the upper 口 in the 品 painfully short in height.<p>While i appreciate Windows&#x27;s effort to make glyphs more legible for lower pixel density displays, but at least provide a toggle to turn it off as it literally ruins everything else. Fonts MS used in every Office&#x2F;Windows&#x2F;even Windows Terminal showcase video are not hinted font yet the glyphs look pretty legible, and even gorgeous (if you appreciate the curves of Segeo UI) in a 4:2:0 subsampled video, animated, yet average Windows users can&#x27;t find a way to experience this on daily basis without MacType.
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maxharrisalmost 4 years ago
no screenshots?
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chawyehsualmost 4 years ago
Glad MacType is still being developed, it&#x27;s been a software existing for over a decade. And it has been with me for 8 years so far.
bluedinoalmost 4 years ago
Linux is another story. Debian looks different from Ubuntu which looks different than vanilla RHEL
fallenspecalmost 4 years ago
I had listened to an interview with the original cleartype author on a podcast almost a decade ago now.<p>IIRC He said that when Apple got the cleartype patent (due to the Apple&#x2F;Microsoft cross patent agreement that happened in the late 90s), they kinda messed up the implementation of cleartype and Windows actually implements it correctly and Mac OS X (now Mac OS) doesn&#x27;t.<p>So I find this somewhat amusing.
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