I purchased a Pixel phone to test this stuff on.<p>I installed LineageOS and found I couldn't run some google apps. I reinstalled LineageOS with <a href="https://opengapps.org" rel="nofollow">https://opengapps.org</a> added during the install and made the mistake of transferring from my old phone which brought all the google services and everything back to the phone (mostly).<p>I then installed CalyxOS - much easier install process than lineage. Really liked the defaults. Could not get many apps that relied on google play services though. If I didn't need so many Google-tied apps I would pick this as my phone OS for basic stuff like messaging and browsing.<p>Installed LineageOS again, found there were a couple apps I could not get working after all (50 different apps installed).<p>In the end I gave up and re-flashed Google firmware back onto the phone. I spent about 10 hours on all this stuff and simply ran out of time for now. I though I could get away from Google but I didn't realize how much my apps needed Google.
CalyxOS is an awesome project. I have worked with the lead developer a bit over the past few years and it's been such a pleasure. We share some bits of code between our projects here: <a href="https://github.com/AOSPAlliance" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/AOSPAlliance</a>.<p>If anyone is interested in building their own custom android OS in the cloud (AWS) with same ability to lock your bootloader like CalyxOS, you can checkout my project I've been maintaining for a few years now called RattlesnakeOS: <a href="https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-stack" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/dan-v/rattlesnakeos-stack</a>.<p>And if you prefer to not build in the cloud, there is also a really great project called robotnix (<a href="https://github.com/danielfullmer/robotnix" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/danielfullmer/robotnix</a>) which provides a way to build many flavors of OS (AOSP, GrapheneOS, LineageOS, etc).
If you're unfamiliar with the context: Calyx Institute is a 501(c)(3) with a digital privacy and security mission. For a while they've offered, for a few hundred dollars a year donation, unmetered access to sprint's network. I don't know the details but I think they have retained access to the network through the merger due to some non-profit provision (something like the sprint merger was allowed with stipulation that certain agencies using the network for certain purposes would be grandfathered over). There's apparently more history related to the founder previously running an ISP under gag order, which drives their mission.<p>Access to the network is only possible through wifi pucks. I asked if I could register the IMEI of my ThinkPad's modem/radio, but they wouldn't allow it citing the usual "we are responsible for the behavior of the devices on the network so you have to use our certified device". Sadly, these phones do not participate in Calyx's data network, they require a traditional carrier. Maybe it's part of their roadmap to eventually offer their data services on these handset form factor devices? But until then, I don't see a huge point. It would be really awesome to say "I get my network access through a privacy oriented non-profit" (:
> microG replaces some functions of Google Play Services while maintaining much more anonymity and privacy.<p>I've said it before and saying it again on here for those that don't know: microG breaks the security model on android and adds in package signature spoofing. It's the only way to add a fake Google Play Services without needing to pull Google blobs. This is why projects like LineageOS are against using this method, it weakens overall package security.<p>However, it is still possible for the tinfoil hat crew to not use Google play services with OS like LineageOS. This will of course break some functionality (apps will have to poll instead of relying on push) but it will not break the security model.<p>I'd like a different, better set of options to choose from but we don't have it at this time. Most users should probably choose a minimal Google Play distribution if they value things like battery life and working apps while still maintaining protections against spoofed apps.
The thing which always makes me hesitant about these projects is that they don't receive frequent security audits and not having an expensive brand behind them makes them more at risk to being willing to trash their name at the cost of my privacy and security. I consider these to be a fairly critical part of any project which claims superior privacy and security.<p>I think about it this way: Should I trust<p>A. The company which has thousands of developers working on it and wants to avoid their brand being dirtied by failures in security and privacy.<p>B. The small group of people who have formed an organization which may or may not be another Anom like FBI controlled software.<p>Don't get me wrong, I absolutely want to pick B, but I consider it much more risky since there are a lot more unknowns around that. At least with A I know what I'm getting (basically a free flow of my info to whichever government asks for it, but cross my fingers they don't ask for it or that A doesn't want too broad of a breach of trust).
I’m thinking about buying a degoogled Android phone to replace my iPhone. The main things I want are:<p>* Spotify needs to work over Bluetooth in my car<p>* WhatsApp needs to work (preferably with push notifications)<p>* I need the Fitbit app to work so my watch can show push notifications from my personal apps<p>* a network-based location provider to be consumed by my personal apps (I’m working on a personal data and automation suite that relies on frequent smartphone location updates)<p>Is this something that can be done with CalyxOS on a Pixel? Can other Android flavours like GrapheneOS or LineageOS do this?<p>And aside from Android, how far along are other “mobile linux” smartphones for use as a daily driver with regards to the above points?
From <a href="https://calyxos.org/about/" rel="nofollow">https://calyxos.org/about/</a>:<p>> In social science, agency is defined as: the capacity of individuals to act independently and to make their own free choices.<p>> built-in integration for Signal and WhatsApp calls<p>Signal and WhatsApp are both fully centralised, tied to a single organisation each — they are antithetical to agency.<p>Why not use open protocols like DeltaChat, Matrix or XMPP instead?<p>> built-in free “Virtual Private Network” services from trusted organizations protect you from being spied on<p>Trusted by whom?
Calyx made an effort to sponsor and integrate the backup tool Seedvault (<a href="https://calyxinstitute.org/projects/seedvault-encrypted-backup-for-android" rel="nofollow">https://calyxinstitute.org/projects/seedvault-encrypted-back...</a>) into their ROM - and other AOSP distributions benefit from this effort. Handhelds are tethered devices, its essential to have contacts and precious photos stored at a second place (online or offline) and easily restored or used when changing devices. A user friendly full backup solution not requiring root access of some sort was missing to date.
As someone who knows quite little about Android (currently in the Apple ecosystem, but considering jumping ship): When you use these privacy-focused Android versions without Google Play, is there a consistent way to get apps from the Play store to run on there? (e.g. download the APK from somewhere and sideload it). I'd really like an OS that doesn't spy on me, but there's e.g. some goverment ID apps, transit apps and so on, that I'd really not like to have to give up.
I have been using LineageOS without google replacement libs for about a year. There is a huge amount of comments here, which is interesting in itself - clearly there is a lot of interest in de-googled Android. I worry about fragmentation, eg: if there are too many options will they get diluted without the larger user base. Many apps won't work without google libs. I would like to think that this puts pressure on app builders to not just blindly require google libs, but the reality is without a significant user base wanting it, the tradeoff will always side with the majority. Interestingly WhatsApp works fine - presumably because using your competitors libs is seen as a no-no. FB are no angels here, but I need WhatsApp for family chats.
I don't know if they have this, but a good feature a privacy centric android experience would be, to have a simple accessible log of what app accessed what using which permission.
I've been using MicroG+Lineage for a few years now. No complaints from me, but I don't use a ton of apps. Not sure what the advantage of CalyxOS would be over my current setup (especially considering Lineage has a much better catalog of supported devices)
> you can make encrypted phone calls directly, using the built-in integration for Signal and WhatsApp calls<p>Does this mean WhatsApp is automatically installed with Calyx, or just that there are extra features if you manually install it?
Anybody have experience using something like this (or others like GrapheneOS) as a daily driver?<p>I’m interested in moving away from Apple and big tech in general, but I don’t know how practical that is yet.
Others have mentioned GrapheneOS as an alternative. Recent Graphene builds include sandboxed Google Play compatibility layers [0]<p>[0] <a href="https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-play-services" rel="nofollow">https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-play-services</a>
It used to be that iOS was the recommended phone OS if you were looking for the best combination of privacy and security. Even Daniel Micay (the lead developer of GrapheneOS) thought so, 2 years ago [0]. But these ROMs are looking much more mature these days. Anyone have thoughts on how CalyxOS and GrapheneOS compare to iOS in the present day?<p>[0]: <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/bddq5u/os_security_ios_vs_grapheneos_vs_stock_android/" rel="nofollow">https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/bddq5u/os_secur...</a>
It is asking a lot, but this would be nice: if the developer organizations behind CalyxOS and GrapheneOS could sell new phones with software installed, sort of like System 76 for Linux laptops.
I made the mistake of purchasing a DOOGEE phone a few months back.<p>Won't touch it now that I realize the OS is completely hijacked by whatever chinese company produced this not-half-bad phone. (It goes so far as adding a watermark of the company logo to every photo I take! Sure I can disable it but I just don't feel right putting anything of value on there.)<p>What would happen if I tried installing CalyxOS on it? Or another android compatible operating system?<p>It's not listed as compatible on any alternative android OS that I can see at least.
After using CalyxOS for a while, I came up with a method to use stock android and preserve more of your privacy. <a href="https://hackernoon.com/have-your-privacy-cake-on-android-and-eat-it-too-db1f37b5" rel="nofollow">https://hackernoon.com/have-your-privacy-cake-on-android-and...</a>
The trouble I have with AOSP of all flavors isn't lack of Google Services, it's lack of access to the app store.<p>I can do fine without Google Services, but I occasionally need an app that's just not available on F-Droid, and Google is doing their level best to make it harder to get APKs any other way. You used to be able to download them from the store; no longer possible. They've announced some other package format, support for which I assume won't be released to AOSP.<p>They're locking Android ever closer in to their store, and it makes any alternative Android distribution ever more dependent on Google.
Are there any resources summarizing the differences between…<p>- CalyxOS<p>- Purism, Librem<p>- microG<p>- /e/<p>- LineageOS<p>- LineageOS for microG<p>- GrapheneOS<p>And I’m sure many other Android open source/degooglers?
Something like this seems a lot easier to set up than the hoops I ran through to get my Xaiomi Redmi K20 Pro running Havoc OS + microG. I wish it were more straightforward to get more device compatibility for builds. With GNU/Linux I pick my CPU architecture and I'm good to go. With a project like this, I, given my Android proficiency, should wait who knows how long to get a compatible build. But why a separate build for every device?
So, what's the current experience like on Android w/o Play services?<p>I know at some point it was quite bad but that there were some up-and-coming solutions.
I just transferred from Android to iPhone today. I wouldn't bother to use these alternative Androids, because I don't trust 3rd party app stores. There are banking, authenticator, and other essential apps I will never download from a 3rd party app store.
How does CalyxOX compare to /e/ <a href="https://e.foundation/" rel="nofollow">https://e.foundation/</a> ?<p>I've been really happy with /e/ in daily usage but I'm curious to see what other projects are out there.
Similar projects: <a href="https://e.foundation/" rel="nofollow">https://e.foundation/</a> and <a href="https://replicant.us/" rel="nofollow">https://replicant.us/</a>
Surprised not many people talking about /e/ <a href="https://e.foundation/e-os/" rel="nofollow">https://e.foundation/e-os/</a>
Most of the de-Googled or Linux based mobile OSes have their installation restricted to Pixel phones. Why? Is there any option for old Motorola phones?
Is there some crowdfunding initiative to get this working on additional phones?<p>I would contribute to get this working on more Xiaomi phones for example.
having to buy a pixel phone for this is too expensive for the 2,5 world countries folks anyway. Unfortunately, it won't become popular if brands like xiaomi don't work with this kind of software, and I know there are many reasons why it will never happen.
I am as a rule wary of anyone who decides to offer me "privacy" as a USP of their products, I didn't pick up the phone or laptop to get more privacy, but to share more data. Moreover, the iron law of oligarchy seems to suggest that those who are excessively concerned about my data must need it more.
Since Microsoft now supports Android apps, you can expect ungoogled android to become more popular since more apps would be written which dont need play store