TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

The metaverse is a dystopian nightmare – let’s build a better reality

161 pointsby riebschlageralmost 4 years ago

29 comments

danShumwayalmost 4 years ago
&gt; Multiply this kind of channel x1000: Mario, Transformers, Marvel’s superhero universe, the world of Wakanda, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Bladerunner, Sherlock Holmes, Nancy Drew, The Maltese Falcon — all of these and countless more will exist as reality channels that you can turn on, transforming your daily routine into something a bit more magical, intriguing, exciting — and most of all, a little more fun. Importantly, all of these experiences will be shared by countless other people, so that the adventure is a catalyst for spending time together and deepening social relationships.<p>But even more importantly, none of those people you&#x27;re interacting with have any agency over those brands or IPs, and their interaction with the metaverse will necessarily be filtered through a set of corporate-controlled allowed actions and responses. Those &quot;social relationships&quot; will be a guided experience.<p>When replacing or overlaying reality with IP, it becomes necessary to ask the question, &quot;who owns the IP?&quot;<p>The counter-cultural, weird sci-fi worlds of current platforms like VRChat exist in no small part because the people interacting with them have <i>agency</i>. They ignore copyright, they make whatever they want, they form whatever communities they want. I&#x27;m not interested in your vision of an AR metaverse if your vision of the metaverse is that Nintendo or Disney gets to put an extra layer over the real world that gives them even more control over how I can interact with it.<p>The author keeps talking about culture, but the brands and IPs that they&#x27;re championing are fundamentally opposed to the free expression of culture outside of their owners&#x27; control, and cementing the metaverse in an &quot;official&quot; way that retained that control would result in a world even more restrictive than our current one. Hard pass.
评论 #28151122 未加载
评论 #28154095 未加载
评论 #28150687 未加载
评论 #28150488 未加载
评论 #28153010 未加载
评论 #28150291 未加载
评论 #28150996 未加载
评论 #28151076 未加载
adenozinealmost 4 years ago
&quot;Wow the metaverse sucks...&quot;<p>&quot;So anyways, we&#x27;re building a metaverse with Pokemon and advertising, and it will NOT suck...&quot;
ericjangalmost 4 years ago
The title and content of the article, in which Hanke espouses the virtues if Niantic Labs (an AR company), were cognitively dissonant for me.<p>&gt; The concept reached one of its most complete expressions in Ernest Cline’s Ready Player One, where virtually everyone has abandoned reality for an elaborate VR massively multiplayer video game. A lot of people these days seem very interested in bringing this near-future vision of a virtual world to life, including some of the biggest names in technology and gaming. But in fact these novels served as warnings about a dystopian future of technology gone wrong. As a society, we can hope that the world doesn’t devolve into the kind of place that drives sci-fi heroes to escape into a virtual one<p>I&#x27;m trying to understand what Hanke is really saying. Is he saying that VR sucks, and AR, specifically AR that encourages people to interact with the real physical world, is where its at? I assume by &quot;biggest names in technology and gaming&quot; he is referring to Niantic&#x27;s competitors? Specifically what about those bets does he disagree with?
评论 #28150583 未加载
评论 #28148545 未加载
评论 #28148937 未加载
评论 #28149348 未加载
评论 #28149062 未加载
评论 #28150120 未加载
shock-valuealmost 4 years ago
Whenever a company describes their vision of &quot;the metaverse&quot; (or I guess &quot;reality channels&quot; in this case) it&#x27;s always exceedingly vague and never really explains in concrete terms what sort of utility or entertainment a person would derive from it.<p>I guess it&#x27;s just the latest vehicle to get investors or stockholders excited without needing to rely upon any work or logic beyond the unclear promise of technologies that themselves haven&#x27;t even been proven out yet. (And this is coming from someone who does think VR is really cool -- with respect to some of the discrete, packaged, and targeted immersive experiences that are already available.)
评论 #28149812 未加载
评论 #28148861 未加载
评论 #28150073 未加载
Animatsalmost 4 years ago
We now have two visions of a metaverse.<p>The augmented reality version is Google Glass with better graphics. That&#x27;s what Niantic has in mind: &quot;The Pokémon will finally be able to truly walk among us!&quot; With better hardware, that becomes becomes the famous &quot;Hyperreality&quot; video.[1] That&#x27;s also Zuckerberg&#x27;s vision: everyone wearing Facebook goggles and logged into Facebook at all times.<p>The virtual reality vision is less clear, because it doesn&#x27;t really work yet. Moving around wearing VR headgear still doesn&#x27;t work if you want to go very far, which is why Beat Saber is still the best VR game. Keyboard and screen, preferably with a big screen, still beats headgear for extended use. Nobody has a really good answer to that problem. VRChat is probably as good as it gets right now, short of the location-based systems.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs</a>
L_226almost 4 years ago
I built mirrorspace.net (beta up at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;app.mirrorspace.net&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;app.mirrorspace.net&#x2F;</a>) which is a &quot;mirror space&quot; i.e. a virtual layer ontop of our normal physical space. Users can browse nearby landmarks (currently based on geolookup wikipedia entries) and also upload their own media. But the catch is, for anyone else to view your media and interact with it, they need to be within 50m of the upload location. This mechanic is meant to drive a dual virtual&#x2F;physical interaction that gives a more holistic and potentially a more meaningful social media experience.<p>My idea was to add search filters, commenting, voting etc. and allow people to &quot;feel&quot; how people currently interact with any location - so if I fly to SF from Berlin, I can immediately browse the mirrorspace and see what people are doing specifically where I am now, and also get a handle on the social fabric of that place. I wanted to have a platform that records significant events in a temporal way, maybe protests or similar - things that define each city&#x2F;place uniquely. The monetisation strategy was to allow people to pay the platform to increase the visibility radius of their posts, and&#x2F;or allow people to pay to view media items from outside the normal radius - where a share of this payment goes to the uploader.<p>I was fucking around for a few years on this, and now I have another major project to work on so no longer have time or motivation to &quot;finish&quot; it. I might open source it in the future, if anyone is interested. (I haven&#x27;t looked at the code in months)
评论 #28153925 未加载
ipsum2almost 4 years ago
Title doesn&#x27;t really reflect the content of the article. Niantic is describing how they&#x27;re going to build their own Metaverse in AR.
评论 #28148938 未加载
rektidealmost 4 years ago
Putting more flat screens atop the real world has lost it&#x27;s luster for me.<p>I&#x27;m very much a fan of ubiquotous (&amp; pervasive) computing, still as much of a torch for it as ever. But these days I tend to think more ambient, non-visual modalities &amp; connecting the network fo devices is more interesting. Efforts like Web of Things standards (a web standard for exposing devices) and WebThings (a unrealted semantic-web powered iot engine spun out from Mozilla) talk to creating awareness &amp; control over the seas of devices about us (&amp; afar too). Systems like Eddystone&#x2F;PhysicalWeb&#x2F;Bluetooth-beacons provide ambient awareness of local systems &amp; endpoints, and one day I hope people &amp; interests too (that want to be so locally digitally available). These, to me, along with good interoperabile standards (like ActivityPub), feel like the seeds for a Rainbows End scenario, where comment trees hang in the world, where everything is annotateable.<p>But I tend to think these connective mediums are well served by the screens we put &amp; pull from our pockets, served by watches &amp; vibrations and bluetooth headsets.<p>I don&#x27;t know what the metaverse might be. But back when ubicomp was younger, I remember being absolutely floored by Steve Mann piping his worn camera sensors over analog TV signal to an SGI box, processing it, and beaming it back to his immersive display. He was reprocessing reality, not simply overlaying digital atop it. I doubt there was all that much really going on on the SGI, but it filled me with the ideas of a world which was visually editable. And I think that&#x27;s where we&#x27;ve seen little progress.<p>Some of the hololens &amp; magic leap demos were very compelling... 5 years ago. First Person Shooter type things played in the living room. And there are a steady march of really good phone based demos of virtual objects dropped into a similar camera-view of the world. But really, we need to get much better at having digital systems ingesting the world about us, and we need to start unleashing human creativity that people can redraw &amp; reimagine the physical world. We need procedural toolkits galore to re-simulate environments. An augmentative metaverse needs filters, well beyond what a photo filter is, requiring both that input of the world, and the flexible programmatic world-shaders we can orchestrate &amp; lean on to rewrite the world, before it gets to our eyes.
评论 #28148935 未加载
freeone3000almost 4 years ago
VRChat is working pretty well. The interface is a little clunky, but, it&#x27;s pretty much what I think when I think metaverse. Not sure what Niantic is on about.
dougmwnealmost 4 years ago
Did Pokemon Go make any major progress in AR interactivity in the 5 years since it&#x27;s release or is Niantic blowing smoke?
评论 #28148468 未加载
评论 #28148427 未加载
gfodoralmost 4 years ago
Everyone’s vision of the metaverse seems to be directly tied to their pre-existing business interests.<p>Call me when you work on several of these projects in a row and debias yourself and your financial interests from what ought to be done to create the best possible future for spatial computing.
visualradioalmost 4 years ago
If augmented reality leads to neural implants it can potentially lead to an even worse dystopia if the technology is not open source. Limited access to resources may result in the coercion of workers into accepting patented neural implants in order to participate in an idea-based economy in order to accumulate any personal property necessary for survival.<p>Accepting such implants might then allow direct surveillance of thoughts so that all novel ideas which thinkers come up with are patented by private investors, implants also open up possibility of direct external suggestion to disable the ability of thinkers to consider whether or not they are free.<p>The highest value of thinkers is freedom of thought. Since thought arises from material conditions and living in a community allows more time for thought by decreasing the time its members spend on basic survival there is always a social \ political \ economic component which must be considered when building better realities to avoid simply accelerating the essential trajectory of a current reality.
评论 #28149836 未加载
zacayalmost 4 years ago
The author, John Hanke, raised VC investment from the CIA as CEO of Keyhole [1] before their acquisition by Google in 2004.<p>At Google, Hanke ran the Geo division while street-view cars were illegally collecting Wi-Fi data en masse [2].<p>Yet we&#x27;re supposed to believe that he will build a metaverse that&#x27;s NOT dystopian?<p>[1] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20030801175255&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.keyhole.com&#x2F;press_releases&#x2F;20030625.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20030801175255&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.keyhole...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;08&#x2F;09&#x2F;privacy-scandal-haunts-pokemon-gos-ceo&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;theintercept.com&#x2F;2016&#x2F;08&#x2F;09&#x2F;privacy-scandal-haunts-p...</a>
RGammaalmost 4 years ago
The metaverse is yet another thing no-one asked for but something we&#x27;re still going to get.<p>It doesn&#x27;t matter what anyone thinks or says. The higher-ups have decided it&#x27;s going to happen, the puppets are going to dance and so it will.
bullenalmost 4 years ago
To me the metaverse is more about rules than the technical details.<p>We need an internet where people are not constrained in what they are allowed to do for earnings.<p>Open-source is only half the battle as content also need to shift. Open-content?<p>I made the network protocol: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tinspin&#x2F;fuse" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tinspin&#x2F;fuse</a><p>And now I&#x27;m working on the file formats: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;talk.binarytask.com&#x2F;task?id=5959519327505901449" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;talk.binarytask.com&#x2F;task?id=5959519327505901449</a>
nathiasalmost 4 years ago
I don&#x27;t see the value in overlaying the earth with superheroes and tampon adds, but it would be cool to have a subtractive layer that blocks all this garbage from your view.
karaterobotalmost 4 years ago
The biggest artificial universe, created by our smartest and most idealistic techno-utopian hippies, got subverted and then perverted into the internet of today. Now, the sort of people who did a lot of the subverting want to try again, but this time it&#x27;ll be for profit and full of monetization and tracking ab initio, and I&#x27;m supposed to think it&#x27;ll work out because we have AR glasses now. Yeah, that&#x27;s what was missing, the glasses.
Stampo00almost 4 years ago
This really smacks of Magic Leap for me, which is far from a compliment. I think we all know how this story ends already.
cblconfederatealmost 4 years ago
I mean, we ve &quot;reinvented&quot; IRC for the n-th time, why not do the same for Second Life. again
yuy910616almost 4 years ago
There is a good reason to do something and there is a real reason.<p>Coming from Niantic, who is a proponent of AR, it seems like the good reason is to care about building a better reality, but I&#x27;m curious if anyone knows enough to comment on their &#x27;real&#x27; reason?
评论 #28148664 未加载
shmerlalmost 4 years ago
Virtuaverse seems to be describing something similar: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gog.com&#x2F;game&#x2F;virtuaverse" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.gog.com&#x2F;game&#x2F;virtuaverse</a><p>Permanent reality idea could be closer than it looks.
JakeAlalmost 4 years ago
Isn&#x27;t Ninatic the company funded by the CIA&#x27;s venture fund? And call me when when VR glasses are lightweight glasses and not head gear. I have a hard enough time using reading glasses as I get older.
worldsayshialmost 4 years ago
I see a potential in using VR as an interface to reality. Or rather, as a more immersive way to build models and test ideas about how we can solve problems in reality.
mensetmanusmanalmost 4 years ago
Let’s do both, a metaverse will always be more interesting in some subset that can’t exist in reality.
hammyhavocalmost 4 years ago
Not a fan of VR or AR, personally.
dotcomaover 3 years ago
Isn&#x27;t this post a bit weird, coming from the makers of PokemonGo ?
cfelipedalmost 4 years ago
Please fix Go Battle League
TechBro8615almost 4 years ago
Surely if any metaverse is to truly compete with reality, we’ll need to build it on a federated fabric. Sometimes I wonder if people would invent the internet of today by modeling a company after Cloudflare. The success and resiliency of the Internet comes not from the strength of a single company, but from its focus on federation and interoperability.<p>No single company could build the Internet and be successful, and the same is true for the metaverse. The focus should be on developers, shared spaces and protocols. How can I connect my server running a game on Unity engine to your server running a Godot engine? Can I walk between them, transport my avatar between worlds? Can I run copies of myself in multiple realms? Can I play Factorio inside the game room of my Minecraft megabase?<p>I’d like to see more crazy ideas and wild hacks focusing along these lines. In fact I’m surprised there aren’t more “metaverse for crypto” initiatives. I guess we’re probably still 10-15 years away from the first successful application of these concepts.
评论 #28151174 未加载
CryptoPunkalmost 4 years ago
I think the public blockchain is the only basis of a non-dystopian metaverse. With it, ownership over digital assets can transcend any specific proprietary platform. For that to happen, a general consensus needs to emerge that the public blockchain is the canonical source of truth on ownership of works of arts, and a convention needs to be established where platforms respect blockchain-based claims and reserve for possessors of such claims exclusive use of the respective artwork.<p>Without an open ownership system, people will be compelled by market forces to converge to using a single proprietary platform that can provide a consistent account and set of rules on claims to digital property, and this platform being mutable by the proprietor, will make that proprietor inordinately powerful in a way that disfigures the socioeconomic landscape to make it less functional.
评论 #28152605 未加载