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Unifying iPadOS and macOS

120 pointsby fallenhitokirialmost 4 years ago

30 comments

flohofwoealmost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s not about the touch screen, the UI, the hardware or &quot;casual&quot; vs &quot;professional&quot; users, but simply about the ability to create(!) and combine small specialized tools into something that&#x27;s bigger than the sum of its parts.<p>The &quot;walled garden app ecosystem&quot; is exceptionally bad for this, and the UNIX shell is exceptionally good, but both are extremes. It&#x27;s hard to imagine how a UNIX-like flexibility can be achieved inside an ecosystem that&#x27;s optimized for passive media consumption and online shopping though.
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derefralmost 4 years ago
Y’know Samsung’s DEX, where you plug a Samsung Android device into an HDMI output and the output is not a mirror of the phone’s mobile UI, but rather a full Android desktop UI?<p>There’s little reason that Apple couldn’t do the same thing with iPads, where the “desktop UI” is macOS. Unify the kernels&#x2F;userlands, keep the “Desktop Environments” distinct, but ship them both on iPads, with the macOS DE just waiting around for you to plug your device into a monitor.<p>Apple are already training us for this with the new version of Continuity — there’s little difference between “control your Mac from your iPad” and “control the macOS DE container running on your iPad, from your iPad.”<p>The only real differences in interaction paradigm between Continuity and a DEX-like approach, now that I think of it, would be:<p>- a shared filesystem<p>- [possibly] moving iPad&#x2F;Catalyst apps freely between screens, where they swap between being fullscreen on iPadOS and being windows on macOS<p>This would also be a (rather-charitable) explanation for why iPadOS has never done anything smart so far when plugged into an HDMI display. If they were planning to do this, they wouldn’t bother with half-steps like giving iPadOS apps multi-display support.
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aj3almost 4 years ago
You can hack macOS using macOS, but kids won’t be able to get that level of understanding how OS works on iPadOS.<p>This is bad for IT. Maybe not as dramatic as an existential crisis but it’s certainly a lost opportunity.<p>My friend&#x27;s daughter is 10 and she could pass job interview for a junior software developer any day simply because her first PC was running Ubuntu (it’s Arch now).
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simonhalmost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s amazing to me that Apple made a very strict distinction between touch UI systems and keyboard&#x2F;mouse UI systems, right from the start, has maintained that rigorously, and has been right all along.<p>Their competitors and the pundit-sphere saw this as a fatal weakness, but every attempt at unifying touch and keyboard&#x2F;mouse interfaces failed miserably.<p>So I&#x27;m not concerned about Apple trying to merge iPadOS and MacOS, because they already know it would be a mistake and are sticking to their guns until maybe our eyes and fingers get about 4x as sharp.
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FractalHQalmost 4 years ago
I bought an iPad Pro recently, and I hate the fact that I can’t run any of my favorite macOS apps on it despite the fact that the hardware is more than capable. And no web browsers &#x2F; browser extensions &#x2F; PWAs?<p>It feels like a toy. Very disappointing.
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emsyalmost 4 years ago
In the article, 2 of 3 examples are about consumption. This just reinforces my opinion that the iPad is primarily a consumption device. My wife is a teacher and I asked her if her students, the so called „digital natives“ hold up to their reputation. She declined and said they were producing TikTok videos and instagram photos at best (which can lead to a creative career but I’d argue that’s the exception not the rule). Even if we improve productivity somewhat, it’s offset by a huge increase in consumption. I don’t see this changing in the near future, mainly because there are no incentives to do otherwise.
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defaultyalmost 4 years ago
As a power user on MacOS, I dread the merge. I can only suspect that MacOS becomes less power-user friendly in the name of &quot;intuitiveness&quot;. I hope I am proven wrong
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retskradalmost 4 years ago
I think iPad is the one product that Apple is the most proud of and it shows. The 2021 iPad Pro is the most sophisticated product in Apple&#x27;s lineup. It&#x27;s the smoothest, fastest and most elegant software they have ever made.<p>I know some people who used to work at Apple and they said it was clear that Apple wanted to let the Mac die and focus primarily on iPadOS and iOS but regular users and professionals kept buying Macs so they were forced to revert their attention to it again.
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whywhywhywhyalmost 4 years ago
The signs are all in the air, MacOS will not exist maybe even 5 years from now.<p>The merge will absolutely happen but it will be less of a merge and more of a takeover. iPadOS apps running on MacOS is just the thing to ease you in, eventually at a WWDC down the line the words “Most of our legacy MacOS users are spending most of their time in iPadOS native apps…” and your old versions of Photoshop or whatever will be shifted to be the ones living in the emulation layer like Classic OS9 apps to eventually be removed completely.<p>If you think I’m wrong, forget your own opinions and prejudices to iPad and walled garden computing and imagine you’re an Apple exec who gets to see earning charts, iPhone, iPad and MacOS. One of these things is not like the others in both usage numbers and profit.
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grey-areaalmost 4 years ago
IOS will replace Mac OS, the writing has been on the wall for a while now, iOS is where the money comes in and where most usage is, and maintaining dual development apis is painful and costly.<p>Apple doesn’t need to rush this process, but it is inevitable IMO, and is foreshadowed by actions like allowing iOS apps to run on macOS, moving Mac OS closer in UI to mobile, adding essentials like file handling to the mobile os.<p>At this point the underlying OS is the same, the UIs are converging, the UI frameworks for iOS are almost capable of replacing Mac OS, and it would be relatively easy to merge them in the next few years, keeping some extra layers of UI for macs but merging most of it and certainly the dev frameworks. We may see touchscreen macs or dockable iOS devices first though.
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memetomanceralmost 4 years ago
I for one ain&#x27;t bothered: It&#x27;s clear to me that Apple needs tools to engineer these spectacular devices and there would be little or no sense to them designing away the power of MacOS and landing on a product range limited to simple consumption. Does anyone foresee a time where Apple migrates to something like Lenovo Laptops or Windows or some scraggly Linux desktop environment? Apple won&#x27;t be losing these tools any time soon. At worst we might see dual mode macbooks that can be switched between MacOS and iOS paradigms.<p>Above and beyond that fairly self-evident conclusion, there is plenty of room for more sophisticated interaction with iOS devices that maintain the basic interface but also provide extremely sophisticated data manipulation capabilities. Perhaps even more powerfully than our beloved UNIX shells - think something like AI assisted voice interaction where you can easily state a pipeline verbally: &quot;take results from A that contain N and modify them by X and then sort them by I and make a graph and paste it to my document&quot;. (e.g., grep | sed | sort | gnuplot | paste &gt;&gt; example.doc)<p>That sort of thing is potentially just a few iterations away and simultaneously more powerful and more useful than text mode pipes, if only for the fact that the user wouldn&#x27;t be required to memorize thousands of cryptic flags&#x2F;switches. The same interface could be used to string these directives together to form scripts and set jobs, etc.<p>This isn&#x27;t meant to be a specific prediction, by the way, just one glimpse into the idea space. There are so many good ideas that people haven&#x27;t had yet... it just staggers the mind to consider the potential. I&#x27;m just skimming the surface but surely there are so many ways to marry the insanely intuitive discoverability of something like iOS with the equally awesome power of the UNIX philosophy.<p>But it&#x27;s up to us to find them, rather than get inflexible and grumbly and say it can&#x27;t be done, or Apple is stupid, or whatever nonsense take you might jerk your knee towards ;)
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eddiehalmost 4 years ago
I see a bunch of posts about the iPad being a &quot;consume&quot; only device and that&#x27;s totally <i>totally</i> wrong.<p>I&#x27;ve had an iPad since day one, generation one and took notes with an aftermarket stylus. I used Keynote and OmniGraffle to make slideshows and diagrams.<p>I even bought an Apogee JAM and was able to record my electric guitar in GarageBand and used several other apps for guitar effects and simulated amplification. My favorite was AmpKit+ [<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;agilepartners.com&#x2F;apps&#x2F;ampkit&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;agilepartners.com&#x2F;apps&#x2F;ampkit&#x2F;</a>].<p>The iPad is a great creator&#x27;s device and has only improved with the Apple Pencil and other enhancements.<p>That being said, if Apple keeps moving macOS towards iPadOS I&#x27;m out. The iPad is a complementary device as I use it. It can not replace a notebook computer and my notebook computer can not replace my desktop.<p>There are definitely people that can get by with just an iPad or even just a smartphone, but I can&#x27;t and will not. There are still many options for non-Apple notebooks and workstations and many more OS options too.
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canuckintimealmost 4 years ago
Another paradigm not often discussed is to keep iPadOS and macOS distinct but offer macOS as an app (hardware virtualized vm) on iPadOS.<p>This is a similar transition to MS-DOS on Windows 95 (successful), Unix terminal on Mac OS X (successful) or Windows 8 desktop program in Windows 8 tablet Metro shell (unsuccessful).<p>Most people just need MacOSX for 10% of their computing needs — that 10% is unique for most people though — and an iPad Pro able to access macOS when needed would be enough for peace of mind.<p>On the flip side if Apple just added cellular and Apple Pencil support to the Mac (not even a touchscreen&#x2F;pen supported screen; just Apple Pencil support for the trackpad) it would decimate sales of iPad Pro.
tacker2000almost 4 years ago
Maybe the future will be 90% of normal users using dumbed down touch devices, and the rest of us “power” users who need to develop stuff will be using a normal OS.<p>Maybe the normal OSes that we all grew up with are actually overkill for these other users and they dont even want it. Why would they need a shell? Or the ability to install some arbitrary programs? They only need email and word and thats it.<p>Maybe this is not a bad thing in the end? Who knows.
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Fiahilalmost 4 years ago
The article does a good job summarizing what works on an iPad and what doesn&#x27;t ! To that, I will add that iPads are designed as a &quot;single user&quot; device. Sharing one between family members means you have to let them use your Google, Spotify, iCloud accounts.<p>Now that their hardware is all lined up between laptops and mobile devices, I fully expect the merge to happen in a few years. I feel Apple&#x27;s software has been stagnant for too long and I won&#x27;t be buying new hardware until then.
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apialmost 4 years ago
I need a real computer. I don’t mind a few UI ideas being borrowed where they make sense but if I can’t run anything I want on it and can’t multitask or combine things together it is not a real computer.<p>iOS works fine for a phone. It’s worthless for my job or my personal interests.
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cwizoualmost 4 years ago
Interesting take, there&#x27;s 0 doubt that iPads are incredibly more intuitive to use, and anecdotally, I&#x27;ve also seen the same observations regarding young and elderly. I think a good portion of that is the indirect pointing method (mouse or trackpad) that takes some use to, but there are certainly inherited conventions, features based on past limitations and other things that look just weird to a new audience picking it up.<p>It&#x27;s certainly not impossible but one could argue that some oddities could be cleaned up. Releasing software as dmg on Mac is really terrible for new users (and I hate that I did it for Aerial&#x27;s companion app), it&#x27;s inherited from the olden days of CD-ROMs and the fact that you have to unmount it is really something that could be improved on.<p>Now, one could argue Apple has very low incentive to provide something better and push for a new norm (most software nowadays does zip and detect if user launches from the Downloads folder, complaining&#x2F;moving the file in Applications for you), but that&#x27;s definitely a relic of the past that, while you can still support it for legacy reasons, should be phased out for something better officially pushed by Apple (that is not just the App Store).<p>The Apple approach to feature changes&#x2F;simplifications on macOS though seems solely based on design. Hiding the document proxy icons on windows in Big Sur is a good example of this [1].<p>If you&#x27;ve seen Monterey betas, Safari tabs are also losing functionalities (favicons worked a bit like document proxy icons, that&#x27;s gone now) and while they rolled back some of the most egregious changes (they had made a utter mess with toolbar buttons in beta 1), the new UI is still clunky in terms of general usability and readability.<p>I guess it looks epurated and consistent with the new Safari iPad UI, but do those change help in any way the new users to get around the inherited &quot;peculiarities&quot; of the Mac ? I don&#x27;t think so.<p>And when Apple does &quot;line up&quot; features to make them consistent accross platforms, it&#x27;s always the Mac that loses. The phasing out of plugins in Safari for app extensions killed uBlock Origin for example, and the alternatives are certainly not as great.<p>[1] : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;daringfireball.net&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;document_proxy_icons_macos_11_and_12" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;daringfireball.net&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;document_proxy_icons_maco...</a>
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thrower123almost 4 years ago
This was dumb when Windows 8 did it, and it remains dumb.<p>Unifying an OS and it&#x27;s GUI&#x2F;UX layer across devices with fundamental differences like this gives you lowest denominator crap.
indymikealmost 4 years ago
It&#x27;s no surprise that inexperienced computer users can get more done with a mobile UI than a MacOS (or for that matter, most classic computer UIs). The big difference is that to operate a mobile device, you don&#x27;t have to be able to read and understand what the words mean. That doesn&#x27;t mean a mobile UI is the right one for every laptop, or for a Macbook.<p>We&#x27;ve seen many tries at unifying the design language between mobile and computer. ChromeOS, Windows 10, Android Desktop Mode, Ubuntu&#x27;s Unity all are mobile&#x2F;desktop UIs. What makes them work (to the extent they do work) is that most devices have touch screens (well, not so much with Android in desktop mode). Without the touch screen, optimizing the shape of UI components for touch is actually a bad experience as a pointing device works very differently than does a touch screen.
_ph_almost 4 years ago
There is a lot of reason for having different UIs to start with, between a tablet and a laptop or even a desktop computer. Though I think productivity could be better on the iPad in this regard too.<p>But the very basic problem is file handling. It somehow seems to vary across apps. Some have local storage to themselves which is hidden from everyone, some have visible local storage, others support files&#x2F;iCloud. While files can be cumbersome on its own, if at least all apps would share the data in a way accessible by files, it would be a start.<p>Best example which keeps bugging me: music. I ripped my CDs into my iTunes library and consequently into Apple Music. Now, Apple Music decided to delete some of my tracks from its library. How to get them back? I even was able to put them into my iCloud drive, but there is no way to add music to your iPad this way. Is there any other way you can add tracks to Apple Music? Is there any way to cause iTunes, which still has all of them, to upload them to Apple Music again (never mention that I do need my Mac for that, destroying the notion of the iPad being stand-alone).<p>Same situation with videos. How to copy videos from iCloud onto the iPad apps? And of course, none of these apps open something like an &quot;open file&quot; mechanism.<p>I quite like my iPad Pro. But I never figured out, how to really &quot;do&quot; things with it. The only positive exception seems to be the &quot;Working Copy&quot; git client, which enables some apps to be used productively.
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mohanmcgeekalmost 4 years ago
If the latest iPhone chip is as powerful as the Intel chip used in MacBooks, why shouldn&#x27;t I be able to connect a hdmi to usb c cable to my phone and get a full MacOS machine on the external display? (Like Samsung dex does this or so did Ubuntu phone from 2014-15?)<p>Same question with Android phones and Chrome OS.<p>What&#x27;s the technical challenge?<p>I feel the only reason Apple won&#x27;t do it is because then instead of buying 2 to 3 devices, people would buy just one, which will hurt their revenue. (Doesn&#x27;t explain why Google won&#x27;t)
TheRealDunkirkalmost 4 years ago
They can’t get rid of a general purpose OS. They have to have products that allow you to write software for the iDevices, and web applications, in general. You need macOS for these things.
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gosukiwialmost 4 years ago
Funny the author suggests defaulting to showing all apps as if it was mobile. Windows 8 tried that, didn&#x27;t work out too well.<p>I do think it would be great to unify though, maybe find a way to keep everyone happy. It would be great to just have an iPad (or any tablet device) and be able to just use a bluetooth mouse and keyboard, and be able to run any IDE, game, or app you want.<p>As computers get more powerful, it might not even be necessary to have a full-blown desktop PC for regular personal use.
PaulHoulealmost 4 years ago
Talk to a CS professor and they will tell you an OS is what is deep inside the machine but not see. Read a review in arstechnica and you would think an OS is about appearances and the exact shape of each UI component, etc.<p>My understanding is that the kernel is basically the same already, it is the services stacked on top that are different.
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rubyist5evaalmost 4 years ago
As long as I can still sideload the same applications on macOS - I&#x27;m OK with this. Even if it&#x27;s only enabled on the macOS &quot;side&quot;, having a unified OS on unified hardware would be huge step forward in my opinion.<p>Having XCode on an iPad would be convenient as well - though it&#x27;s not the only IDE I use and would still ultimately prefer a proper laptop&#x2F;desktop form-factor for &quot;serious&quot; programming.
tehabealmost 4 years ago
Depends on what you mean with unify? Apple locked up macOS more and more over the years and I guess or fear, it is just a question of time until you can no longer install apps outside the App Store. After that the difference between macOS and iOS is just the UI.
sangdalmost 4 years ago
iOS is undeniably the one that would lead and determine how the future would be. In terms of money, iOS makes almost 5x more money than MacOS excluding all the services and wearables the iOS brings in as well. It makes lots of sense to continue invest heavily on iPadOS to attract more advanced users like devs.<p>iPad Pro M1 is the baby first step to start bringing in more MacOS compatible pieces to iPadOS. Eventually it would suck some or even most of the MacOS users into the iPadOS.
chipotle_coyotealmost 4 years ago
I&#x27;ve written about this before, in &quot;The Mac and the iPad aren&#x27;t meeting in the middle yet&quot;:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;micro.coyotetracks.org&#x2F;2021&#x2F;04&#x2F;21&#x2F;the-mac-and.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;micro.coyotetracks.org&#x2F;2021&#x2F;04&#x2F;21&#x2F;the-mac-and.html</a><p>While I won&#x27;t repeat myself <i>too</i> much, my basic point is that Apple sees iOS (and iPadOS) devices as application consoles and Macs as general purpose computers, and there is no good business case for changing that any time soon. The Venn diagram of &quot;users likely to walk over such a drastic change to the Mac&quot; and &quot;users likely to spend boggling amounts of money on Apple hardware&quot; is close to a perfect circle, and the accounting department would probably not be super keen on taking the bet that the increased service revenue from shoving all app sales through the App Store would make up for the last hardware sales. You need 15–30% of a hell of a lot of apps to make up for a single lost 16-inch MacBook Pro sale, let alone a Mac Pro.<p>Furthermore: given all the radical changes Apple made to the Mac in 2020, that still feels like the &quot;now or never&quot; moment. I wrote back in April that &quot;if M1 Macs and macOS Big Sur didn&#x27;t lock us into an App Store-only world, it&#x27;s pretty unlikely macOS Pismo Beach or whatever is going to.&quot; Well, it&#x27;s a year later, and macOS Monterey still isn&#x27;t. Maybe in a year or two macOS Fresno will come along and prove me wrong, but I&#x27;m pretty confident it won&#x27;t.<p>The flip side of this is that I don&#x27;t think iPadOS is going to be opened up. I also wrote that I didn&#x27;t think we would be able to run macOS apps on M1 iPad Pros the way we can run iOS apps on M1 Macs; that&#x27;s holding true so far, too. I&#x27;ll note here, though, that the Hacker News crowd has specific ideas about What Makes a Real Computer that I don&#x27;t think are widely shared by the non-engineer crowd, and that honestly a lot of you don&#x27;t have a clear idea of how much automation and app interoperability is possible within iOS&#x27;s restrictions. I <i>prefer</i> using the Mac, in no small part because I&#x27;ve been using Unix for close to three decades, but it&#x27;s startling how much I&#x27;m able to do on the iPad even with its current nerfball limitations.<p>And, sure, the obvious objection is that &quot;application console&quot; is arbitrary, and it is. But isn&#x27;t &quot;game console&quot; just as arbitrary? I mean, a PlayStation 5 has an 8-core CPU with 16GB of RAM; you can&#x27;t develop software on it because Sony won&#x27;t let you, full stop. We&#x27;re more annoyed about that limitation being on the iPad because the arbitrariness feels more obvious, because we didn&#x27;t buy the iPad &quot;only&quot; for gaming. But on a <i>technical</i> level, there&#x27;s not a whole lot of difference.<p>The linked article makes the prediction that Apple is going to be trying to drive more and more people to the iPad and away from the Mac. I don&#x27;t buy that, simply because the evidence just doesn&#x27;t support it. They have literally just reported the strongest quarter of Mac sales in the company&#x27;s history. It&#x27;s not just that they&#x27;re moving to their own CPU architecture, it&#x27;s that they&#x27;re in the process of rolling out new industrial designs for the entire Mac lineup. This is not what you do if your business goal is to have Mac sales taper off!<p>My feeling now remains the same as it did, er, all the way back in April: iPadOS and macOS are never going to merge. <i>In the long run,</i> there is going to be an operating system that replaces both of them, and the groundwork for that new OS is being laid out now. But it&#x27;s not going to be here any time soon, and nobody (including me) should be making confident predictions about what that new OS will be -- what it will and won&#x27;t do, what it will and won&#x27;t allow, how locked down or open it will be.
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villgaxalmost 4 years ago
appleOS
tandavalmost 4 years ago
is macOS scans users data like iOS? (and reports to gov)
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