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Ask HN: Are Unpaid Internships Unethical?

4 pointsby throwaway088almost 4 years ago
Suppose I, as an individual, offer to train my neighbor(21 yr old, university 3rd year bachelor&#x27;s student) on latest technologies like JS, React etc and get him ready for a job. I plan to do this by making him work on a small pet project of mine. Frankly he has almost zero skills right now and is not really employable. Is it right of me not to pay him for his work? Is it unethical even if I dont plan to make money on the pet project ?<p>Not that this is an indivdual to individual interaction and no company is involved. The kid has to work atleast 20hours per week for 3 months, on the project.

6 comments

DoreenMichelealmost 4 years ago
If it actually trains him and gets him ready for a job and is not preventing him from supporting himself currently, I see no problem with this.<p>The argument against unpaid internships is usually that it means only the upper classes get access to a jobs pipeline for the better jobs because very poor people can&#x27;t afford to work for free.<p>But I&#x27;ve done freelance work at below minimum wage rates because I controlled my hours and was paid by the &quot;piece,&quot; not by the hour, and that helped me develop skills and an income. I was homeless at the time and too sick to work a minimum wage job.<p>We let privileged people work for &quot;nothing&quot; in order to have a shot at something better. That&#x27;s the typical deal for a lot of company founders.<p>Saying that non rich people aren&#x27;t allowed to work for little or nothing in order to better themselves is a form of denying them rights and access to a better life. It helps keep them stuck in minimum wage jobs with no hope of a better future.<p>As long as this isn&#x27;t some undue hardship, some bait and switch deal where he is enticed with promises you have no plans to fulfill and he actually gets value out of it, I see no problem with this.<p>Gambling on something better is a long human tradition. All people should be allowed to make that choice if they so desire.<p>They just shouldn&#x27;t be conned into &quot;gambling&quot; on something with no real payoff for themselves like so many college students have done in recent years where they are saddled with student loans, the glut of degreed individuals means their degree isn&#x27;t practically a guarantee of a good salary and the only people benefiting are the banks issuing the loans and raking in the interest.
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prostoalexalmost 4 years ago
I started with the industry as an unpaid intern, and few decades down the road appreciate the gamble someone has taken on me.<p>The critics claim unpaid internships benefit those who are richer (or those whose parents are more patient), but it’s not clear if banning unpaid internships will increase the total number of below-entry-level employment opportunities, as menial tasks do not generate enough revenue to justify paying a wage.<p>At 21 I’d guess the biggest priority is getting <i>some</i> kind of project on one’s resume.
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salawatalmost 4 years ago
Is he volunteering?<p>Unpaid internship is in my opinion something vastly different from an amateur taking on a task on a volunteer basis. The unpaid internship is an arrangement where you (whether true or not) are putting off the vibe that the experience or notoriety of the position is it&#x27;s own reward in the form of social capital. I don&#x27;t offer those, nor do I encourage it.<p>Volunteer opportunities are different. You take on the risk for delivery of the product, and you give an amateur a shot at building skills. You&#x27;re still on the hook for ultimate success. That&#x27;s just between you and them.<p>If you are even considering doing something like tracking hours, you should be paying something, anything, even if under the table. We as a society need to value each other&#x27;s time, or what does the sacrfice of one&#x27;s time at no financial restitution even stand for or symbolize?<p>You can argue the difference is a matter of quibbles semantics, but my moral compass pegs unethical unpaid internships, and volunteering a healthy investment of an individual&#x27;s time in building their skills and employability.
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version_fivealmost 4 years ago
You&#x27;ve sort of set it up to sound unethical. If you framed it as collaboration on a not-for-profit project that sounds fine. But you&#x27;re framing it as &quot;making him work&quot; and giving minimum hourly requirements. Why?
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JSeymourATLalmost 4 years ago
&gt; The kid has to work atleast 20hours per week for 3 months, on the project.<p>Who determines hours&#x2F;project length?<p>Assuming this project may be considered a ‘work practicum’ potentially for academic credit—- and the kid is undertaking this work to gain hands-on experience, this a good and worthy cause.
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yuppie_scumalmost 4 years ago
Nobody is forcing him to take the internship.
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