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Apple Delays Rollout of Child Safety Features

1401 pointsby nycdatasciover 3 years ago

81 comments

post_breakover 3 years ago
Wow, we made Apple blink. I did not see that coming. People like me who sold their iPhone and cancelled all services probably are a drop in the bucket, but it looks like the general public and the news picked up on this enough to get the ball rolling to make them step back. So now the question is in what 15.X update do they just sneak it in.
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mrtksnover 3 years ago
In my opinion, Apple will break its brand if they actually go ahead and release &quot;self-reporting to the authorities&quot; device features.<p>Even if they somehow manage to make it do exactly the thing it is supposed to do and not slide into a feature for mass governmental control, I think a lot of people will loose trust into the devices they own.<p>Automatically scanning your stuff and reporting the bad things to the police is like the concept of God always watching. Even if you don&#x27;t do anything wrong and you agree that the stuff they are watching for is bad and should be prevented, there is something eerie about always being watched and controlled.<p>The iPhones should mind their own business and leave the police work to the police.<p>That being said, I would be O.K. if the scan is performed on the device upon physical access by the authorities. You caught someone, You have enough evidence to investigate the person, you are allowed to search his&#x2F;her home then maybe it can be O.K. to run a fingerprint scan on the phone to look for evidence.
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numairover 3 years ago
For everyone who is saying that the technical community “won”... Nobody’s been fired. Rather, Apple’s senior execs <i>publicly doubled down</i> and basically labeled those of us who thought this scheme to be insane, as a bunch of uninformed idiots...<p>You can change a product decision in a day, but it takes a LONG time to change a culture that thinks these sort of insane product decisions make any sense whatsoever. Making a long-term bet on Apple has become precarious at best.
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foxfluffover 3 years ago
Critically important? Really?<p>A system that is trivial to circumvent and which only catches people sharing pics that have already been added to a database is not going to move the needle on actual physical abuse of children.
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thehappypmover 3 years ago
I used to work on a system with a heavy amount of UGC (gaming network). We had a big team of people doing moderation of reported content, and the amount of stuff they had to deal with was monstrous. Lots of death threats, racism, evil images, SWAT-ing. They&#x27;d invite people to do ride-alongs to see the types of things that were reported, and it was brutal. A very tough job. A lot of those folks were ex-military, we needed really tough people.<p>They were kind of a weird org, the police of the network, and they kind of kept to themselves but carried a ton of weight. When they were looped into a meeting for a new feature -- for example, &quot;Should we let users send videos to each other?&quot; -- they&#x27;d list out the evil ways people would use them, and then list out the various CSAM scans we&#x27;d be obligated to do if we hosted the content on our servers. They didn&#x27;t have the means to block features, but they did put a healthy fear-of-God into us, and made it so we didn&#x27;t have a lot of big public debacles of kids seeing porn on the home screen of the device, or things like that.<p>I can imagine that Apple has a similar group. I can imagine they went to some executive, told them that this would be their best way to comply with the law, of course you don&#x27;t need to access the images themselves, that would be a privacy violation and we don&#x27;t do that! We just need the hashes, may we remind you this is CSAM we&#x27;re talking about? Then it went up the chain and people were excited to &quot;protect the kids&quot; and protect the brand, hashes != user data, everyone wins!<p>I&#x27;m guessing this move was mostly misaligned priorities, and possibly some genuine incompetence or perhaps people not speaking up when they saw the potential here.
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c7DJTLrnover 3 years ago
Apple&#x27;s brand is tarnished in my eyes. I already got rid of my iPhone and won&#x27;t be returning. The fact that they even announced this is proof that they only ever cared about providing a facade of privacy.
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nickjjover 3 years ago
Does anyone have a success story of using a non-Android &#x2F; non-iOS smartphone as their main phone?<p>I&#x27;ve been on a flip phone and never owned a smartphone but a recent role I&#x27;m taking requires having a smartphone for email &#x2F; Slack access.<p>I know it&#x27;s a matter of picking between 2 lesser evils but has anyone avoided both and went with an open Linux based phone that has a really nice user experience and decent battery life? All of the research I&#x27;ve done leads to Linux &#x2F; open phones just not being there yet, even phones that cost $900 like the Purism Librem 5. The Librem 5 looks like it came a long way in the last year and I am really rooting for them to succeed, but is anyone using a current one as of today or know of a viable alternative?
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shantaraover 3 years ago
I was wondering how Apple would handle their imminent iPhone 13 announcement event in light of the public outcry over the photo scanning. Now we know the answer, they will pretend to listen until everyone buys a new shiny, and then quietly slip in the changes without making much noise after everyone forgets about them.
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mulmenover 3 years ago
Honestly the trust damage is already done. They announced it, the genie is out of the bottle. I can never trust Apple as much as I did before. They are no longer the benevolent dictator of the walled garden. They have proven their judgement is fallible. They have proven that their customers interests do not matter to them as much as their own agenda. I&#x27;m not sure how they can ever fully recover from this, or even promote themselves as a privacy focused brand. That will always ring hollow.<p>This reminds me a bit of the DNS-over-HTTPS hand wringing as well. DoH points out that applications can run their own DNS and you can&#x27;t easily control that behavior at a network level like with conventional DNS. That is pretty troubling from a technically literate user perspective but it&#x27;s not actually <i>new</i>. Applications could always hard-code DNS. DNS-over-HTTPS just made us think about it.<p>Similarly Apple has complete control of your device. They always have, it&#x27;s actually part of the value proposition. There has been a lot of debate about what Apple should or shouldn&#x27;t do here but the fact is they could have pushed this out silently and it could be scanning your entire device right now, we just don&#x27;t know. We have to trust Apple at their word and after their announcement that they would push this kind of capability I&#x27;m not sure how we can ever trust them again.
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tzsover 3 years ago
What I find most interesting is that they have apparently delayed <i>both</i> the iCloud photo upload scanning <i>and</i> the Messages parental control scanning which uses a completely different mechanism.<p>The latter when it flags something in a message to the child warns the child and asks if they want to view it. If the child says &quot;yes&quot; and is 13+ it shows it to them and that is the end of it. If the child is 12 or under, they are warned again and told that if they view it their parents will be notified. If they say &quot;yes&quot; again they are shown the image and their parents are notified.<p>Note that no one is notified unless the recipient is an under 13 child and the child explicitly decides to allow their parents to be notified.<p>I&#x27;ve seen much fewer objections to this. I don&#x27;t see why they seem to be tying this and the iCloud scanning together in one release.
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luggedover 3 years ago
Between this and the docker desktop bs we&#x27;re talking about moving around a thousand apple laptop purchases a year over to Linux.
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subdaneover 3 years ago
Seems like the unspoken story here isn&#x27;t really about Apple, it&#x27;s that the govts of the world want access to your phone data and its backups. They&#x27;re already getting some of it from exploits, telcos and the cloud. They&#x27;ll be back and will keep coming and it&#x27;s hard to imagine any company will have the ability to stand up to them without seriously impacting their business.
aborsyover 3 years ago
The idea of a vendor scanning your device is terrifying, to say the least.
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pshirshovover 3 years ago
Well, I personally feel that the trust was broken.<p>I&#x27;ve migrated to a self-built Android (that was quick and mostly painless, I would recommend CalyxOS and&#x2F;or Graphene to anyone) and have a long-term plan to completely pull myself out of Apple ecosystem.<p>Also it was a good reminder to degoogle myself, so I did.
TedShillerover 3 years ago
Apple doing this to users&#x27; phones is like the police entering every house in the city (or in this case, the COUNTRY), just in case someone has something illegal in their basement. Nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide, right?<p>The presumption of guilt is the problem. Freedom means that I shouldn&#x27;t even be suspected, and certainly not searched or monitored, unless there is a clear reason.<p>If there is a reason to suspect me, all of these tactics are fair game. But not before that.
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leastover 3 years ago
I hope this is a case of Apple delaying it long enough to silently cancel the feature or completely change it to not be on-device scanning rather than Apple delaying it long enough to be well out of the news cycle and silently enable it at a later date. Both features mentioned have potential for abuse and create an adversarial relationship with ones own device so I&#x27;m not sure what they do to implement them without these remaining concerns.<p>A delay in either case is welcome.
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buildbotover 3 years ago
I don’t think the timing of this is an accident - or at least I’d like to imagine it’s not.<p>iCloud subs renew at the end of the months; I bet they were maybe surprised at the number of people not paying them money anymore for iCloud…
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opnacover 3 years ago
We are likely a week and a bit away from new iPhone releases—a good bit of damage control at play here.
midrusover 3 years ago
I was going to buy an iPhone before they announced this, because I&#x27;m tired of all the Google tracking stuff.<p>If they finally roll this out, I think my next phone will be a Nokia 1100. I don&#x27;t have anything to hide, but I&#x27;m tired of everyone trying to track and sneak into your personal stuff, for whatever reason.
superkuhover 3 years ago
&quot;Apple Delays Rollout of Security Compromising Backdoor&quot;
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browningstreetover 3 years ago
Well, nothing about this announcement yet changes the fact that I still won&#x27;t be buying the next iPhone or Macbook this fall, like I&#x27;d intended.<p>Without knowing what their refinements actually do, it&#x27;s too uncertain.
shrimpxover 3 years ago
The most botched and nonsensical feature announcement ever.<p>&gt; Here&#x27;s an extremely sophisticated mechanism that has insane negative potential ramifications for our users and our brand, but that&#x27;s ok because it&#x27;s all in the name of catching pedos.<p>&gt; PS: And pedos can turn off this mechanism with one toggle.<p>Since this sounds too idiotic to be real, people conclude it must be evil, by Occam&#x27;s Razor.<p>I have a deeper fear: That it&#x27;s actually that idiotic.
cletusover 3 years ago
[Insert Picard meme of &quot;Mild Shock&quot;]<p>This is good but not good enough. Why? Because delayed means it might still happen. What we&#x27;re aiming for is &quot;cancelled&quot;.<p>Scanning your phone and your content is a terrible capability to exist and precedent to set. It&#x27;s a small step to extend that system to, say, scanning for DMCA violations, pirated content, etc. And those will be justified by those activities supporting terrorism.
CubsFan1060over 3 years ago
While looking up something, I came across this article (I believe from before Apple&#x27;s original announcement): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.co.uk&#x2F;article&#x2F;whatsapp-encryption-child-abuse" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wired.co.uk&#x2F;article&#x2F;whatsapp-encryption-child-ab...</a><p>It&#x27;s interesting in that it talks about both server and client side scanning, and some of the things that WhatsApp does.<p>An interesting fact from the article: in 2020, Whatsapp made 400,000 reports to the NCMEC. Apple: 265
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roody15over 3 years ago
Apple “Lets wait another 3-4 months and work on a better PR campaign”<p>No plans to drop these features
TheRealPomaxover 3 years ago
&quot;critically important child safety features&quot;? Heinous as those crimes may be, no numbers means no ground to stand on.
stjohnswartsover 3 years ago
I personally think one of the best things you can do is turn off icloud and automatic updates. No doubt they collect that telemetry. That sends a bigger &quot;vote&quot; than complain on HN, although both are welcome. I turned it all off and set idrive as my backup for now. Not optimal but the best I could do on short notice.
stevenaloweover 3 years ago
“Child safety features” because only a monster would be against such a thing.<p>I seem to recall gun trigger locks being pushed with the exact same phrase (because “self-defense obstacles” would be too accurate)<p>“For the children” is the last refuge of politicians and conmen.<p>So what’s the bottom line?<p>i’m guessing that scanning (for many things) is mandated by multiple governments, and on-device scanning is orders of magnitude cheaper than server-side scanning.<p>I hope this PR nightmare for Apple continues until the full extent of mandated surveillance is exposed<p>But it probably won’t - Apple’s mistake was in thinking that people would blindly accept this as a desirable feature, instead of just quietly implementing it.<p>Or, maybe Apple did it this way on purpose to expose the issue to public scrutiny.
hughrrover 3 years ago
Delay is not the word I want to see.<p>It’s too late anyway. Their reputation is shot now. I don’t trust them.
ithkuilover 3 years ago
It never ceases to astonish me how people keep reacting to this while apparently not really caring to understand how the thing actually works and how it fits into the existing workflows and thus what are the alternatives.<p>I mean, I&#x27;m not surprised this whole thing backfired and that there was a strong uncanny valley reaction to the prospect of having parts of the workflow happening in your device (&quot;a policeman in my pocket&quot; I read somewhere).<p>I am surprised though that it seems impossible to resolve the issue (or at least making progress in the framing of) this with a honest and nuanced conversation.
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walshemjover 3 years ago
Mac rumors has really drunk the cool aid with that headline and not actually call out what apple was trying to do.
ameliusover 3 years ago
Apple still monitors executable files when you try to run them.<p>Who says they aren&#x27;t using this as a fingerprint, or worse, as a way to correlate your behavior with that of a CP offender, or other types of criminal.
tlynchpinover 3 years ago
Apple is well regarded for their strategy. I don&#x27;t find it very credible that Apple is reacting here, it seems apparent that they would anticipate substantial negative reception.<p>So this delay is preordained in the strat, right?<p>But Apple is only human and has had its share of monumental wtf, so this is just a huge gaffe? The spyware team didn&#x27;t know about iphone 13 launch? This seems incredible.<p>There is some n-dimensional chess at play here. I feel like a popcorn munching audience member who is actually a pawn in another dimension.
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iynover 3 years ago
&gt; &quot;[...] we have decided to take additional time over the coming months to collect input and make improvements before releasing these critically important child safety features.&quot;<p>Seeing how this situation was handled by Apple so far, my cynical take on this is that they want to wait for the storm to pass&#x2F;get smaller and then will continue deployment of this tech but with better PR strategy. I hope to be wrong but the latest moves by Apple completely evaporated the remaining trust I had for them.
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robertwt7over 3 years ago
Delay is a strong word here. The question is until when? It&#x27;s like a time bomb. Apple is giving us mixed feelings here starting by the privacy features, giving option for app not to track us, then this.<p>Damn I&#x27;m still confused why person like Tim who has earned everyone&#x27;s respect for privacy is doing this kind of thing. It&#x27;s hard to move from apple honestly at this point and it&#x27;s annoying
cannabis_samover 3 years ago
I genuinely hope that Apple will eventually realize that they have burned decades of goodwill on this evil fascist idiocy..<p>I’ve been buying Macs exclusively for 15 years, but sadly it’s apparently time to change..<p>Every single executive at Apple should be figuratively “raked over the coals” by shareholders for pushing this kind of insane totalitarianism under a vague veil of “protecting children”.
saltedonionover 3 years ago
I bet this had something to do with #AppleToo and the company didn’t want to fight 2 PR battles at once. My bet is this is just a delay tactic.
encryptluks2over 3 years ago
A new job recently sent me a Mac after I&#x27;ve been using Linux for the last 5+ years. I couldn&#x27;t believe all the things that I had to agree too. I don&#x27;t think Apple has ever been about privacy. It is one thing to say you support privacy, but another thing to actually do it. Apple appears to only say they do, but their actions show otherwise.
krsdcblover 3 years ago
This reaks of &quot;WhatsApp ToS update&quot;.<p>Taking some time to let the news wave blow ove... errr reconsider and make improvements, i mean
citizenpaulover 3 years ago
As I see this it is the same tactic as reintroducing a bill until it is finally approved due to opponent exhaustion. Since this is a government operation that apple is carrying out it seems reasonable to think they will follow the same tactics.<p>I also don&#x27;t like that they keep referring to this as &quot;Child Safety&quot; instead of what it is. Irremovable government spyware, that has no visible oversight.
twodaveover 3 years ago
Man, they really stepped in it didn’t they? Who would have thought “safe for kids” and “respectful of my privacy” could be enemies? But this is the position Apple has put itself in. There isn’t really a graceful way out of this.
rayladover 3 years ago
EFF petition here. Numbers do count.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;act.eff.org&#x2F;action&#x2F;tell-apple-don-t-scan-our-phones" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;act.eff.org&#x2F;action&#x2F;tell-apple-don-t-scan-our-phones</a>
viktorcodeover 3 years ago
The on-device CSAM scan must be canceled, not delayed. It is a dangerous payload, future backdoor if you will, bundled with more friendly offline opt-in features and wrapped in &quot;think of the children&quot; paper
Zenstover 3 years ago
So a feature for child safety, delayed due to public peer-pressure. How much of the public pee-pressure was from children? An odd question but equally, does highlight how many things are done in the &quot;think of the children&quot; vein that never even asks a single child for their thoughts. Whilst we all admit there are many things to protect children from and even some questions, but imagine if Apple countered with an advert showing lots of children saying how it&#x27;s good how Apple is protecting their safety. How would that sit with public opinion then?
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ubermonkeyover 3 years ago
Came here to post this.<p>It is VERY uncharacteristic of Apple to pause or walk back policy changes, so I wasn&#x27;t very hopeful about this one. I&#x27;m glad they&#x27;re at least re-evaluating.
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spfzeroover 3 years ago
&quot;Critically important features&quot; Well,I guess if they can wait a few months, were they really &quot;critical&quot;? I mean, maybe use a word like &quot;important&quot;? Can Apple please stop using max adjective in every situation? It just waters down the meaning of these words to the point that we no longer have a word that means &quot;critical&quot; anymore.
tehjokerover 3 years ago
Why would macrumors characterize this unsafe and highly prone to nation state abuse security system on Apple&#x27;s terms? Could they be protecting their institutional arrangement with Apple&#x27;s PR arm and leakers?<p>Anyone reading that headline alone will think, man that&#x27;s crazy. Why would Apple delay something that protects children?
sebiwover 3 years ago
What do you think are the chances we&#x27;ll see a server-side implementation instead of the so far proposed client-side one?
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crb002over 3 years ago
It was in response to my motion for injunction in Apple&#x27;s racketeering case for bribing the City of Waukee $100m to abate $177m. I pointed out they were spying on Judges&#x27; iOS devices and iCloud accounts - Judges don&#x27;t like to be spied on.
AHappyCamperover 3 years ago
Facebook also &quot;delayed&quot; their surveillance plan for WhatsApp.... and eventually implemented it. Apple is now copying Facebook. Apple must abandon this feckless, evil plan, or face losing their user-base. This contradicts Apple&#x27;s core values.
buu700over 3 years ago
Great news! Now let&#x27;s see if we can also get Google to reverse course on backdooring every new Android app: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27695486" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=27695486</a>
beezischillinover 3 years ago
I fully expect them to eventually go ahead with it, I just wonder if they&#x27;ll turn this on via a flip of a switch when the device phones home or it will be a software update. So basically: will upgrading to iOS 15 be safe for now?
leetroutover 3 years ago
&quot;child safety features&quot; ... forced invasion of privacy more like it
dehrmannover 3 years ago
Did they really announce this the Friday before a three-day weekend?
alliaoover 3 years ago
honestly, brand breaking.
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baloziover 3 years ago
What&#x27;s the point of delaying anything, the damage is already done.<p>I can only imaging all the yelling and recrimination happening in executive meetings at Apple Spaceship. Oooff!
diebeforei485over 3 years ago
It&#x27;s not clear if this means it&#x27;s coming in iOS 15.2 or something, or if it&#x27;s being delayed to iOS 16.<p>If it&#x27;s the former, it may be best to stick with iOS 14.
akomtuover 3 years ago
Translating this to plain English using the corp&#x2F;gov lingo:<p>Child = authoritarian Safety = control&#x2F;censorship (depends on context) Features = restrictions
zzo38computerover 3 years ago
&gt; The (unauditable) database of processed CSAM images will be distributed in the operating system (OS)<p>How much disk space will this require?
intricatedetailover 3 years ago
They want people to buy new Macs that will be coming soon and then they&#x27;ll switch the feature. I hope I am wrong.
kerngover 3 years ago
Strange that they do this delay so late... the damage is already done, so why bother now?<p>Apple&#x27;s leadership must be quite confused.
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justinzollarsover 3 years ago
Still on the fence about this brand now. Privacy is the last thing I think about when I think apple.
concindsover 3 years ago
I think it&#x27;s just sad that Apple will now likely be forced to switch to server-side scanning, which they&#x27;ve explained is strictly inferior to their client-side proposal (and which I wrote about here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28176418" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28176418</a>). Irrational fears and (some) misinformation (which I won&#x27;t accude HN of, for the purposes of this discussion, just reddit, Twitter, and the &quot;tech NGOs&quot;) will result in worse outcomes for consumers.<p>This backlash (including these NGOs) also protested the iMessage changes by equating &quot;putting a nudity warning&quot; with &quot;breaking E2E encryption&quot;. I&#x27;m not a parent yet, but why prevent tech companies from adding this obvious (and desirable to many) feature?<p>It&#x27;ll be interesting if they walk back their fears of &quot;non-CSAM hashes being added&quot; when that problem is still present with cloud-scanning. They didn&#x27;t protest Google, Microsoft, and others using PhotoDNA, which presents identical risks. Will they now still complain about Apple if they propose cloud-scanning? They&#x27;d be hypocritical not to, since their current arguments would still apply. But then why haven&#x27;t they complained when everyone else did it?
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MeinBlutIstBlauover 3 years ago
...So they&#x27;re still doing it. Yeah no thanks. I&#x27;ve seen what the Stasi and KGB did. We don&#x27;t need a tech company like Apple to tattle on our behalf for what their AI interpreted as illegal but was not. The last thing the average American wants to do is to talk to police and lawyers.
tremoloquiover 3 years ago
Sadly, the cats out of the bag and Apple, Google and the rest of us will no longer have the plausible deniability that kept this sort of thing in check.<p>Soon enough every tinpot dictator in the world will be demanding their particular flavour of device scanning inside and outside of their jurisdiction.
uptownfunkover 3 years ago
I completely cancelled apple Icloud as a result..
bigger_insideover 3 years ago
calling it &quot;child safety features&quot; in a report ON it is its own kind of propaganda collaboration
ekianjoover 3 years ago
&quot;Delays&quot;, not cancel.
SergeAxover 3 years ago
See what you did? Chirdren will not be safe now.<p>(it is not a sarcastic rant, just a heads up on Apple&#x27;s PR wording)
tonyedgecombeover 3 years ago
In the news tomorrow: &quot;Apple allowing child porn on their phones&quot;.
skinkestekover 3 years ago
ok folks, like I told you it was possible to get Apple to turn around.<p>Maybe now is the time for the American part of HN to start applying the same pressure towards your politicians.<p>We have an election coming up and I&#x27;ve been quite vocal to the people on stand about how my people (the conservatives) sold us out by rubber stamping the surveillance bill last year.<p>I&#x27;ve also sent email and have sent one and will be sending one or more tweets the next few days.
leptoniscoolover 3 years ago
Apple is required by law to do this correct?
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istingrayover 3 years ago
The big takeaway for me: Linux isn&#x27;t a viable alternative yet for most people.<p>We have no alternative to being stuck with Apple. I had always thought I chose Apple. But it wasn&#x27;t a choice really because there are no other viable alternatives.<p>I&#x27;m typing this from a new Linux machine I purchased in response to Apple&#x27;s surveillance announcement. The hardware and support is terrific. But Linux falls short.<p>- For a casual user, Linux doesn&#x27;t support bluetooth headphones, and the mic is basically impossible to get it to work. That means I can&#x27;t have video calls.<p>- To get my mouse to work I have to clone a github from some random person.<p>- To install Brave I have to use the CLI and copy and paste a blob of commands I don&#x27;t understand (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brave.com&#x2F;linux&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;brave.com&#x2F;linux&#x2F;</a>).<p>I&#x27;m not a developer. I need to work. I just need a computer to work on and have video calls with a bluetooth mic. Not doable on Linux after spending $1500 on a new computer.<p>That said, open source, end to end encryption is the only path forward. Linux <i>must</i> be viable.<p>If you work on Linux, thank you. Please continue to be empathetic to users who have no idea what a CLI is and have no interest in learning and just want to work using open source systems.<p>If you are a regular person who wants to use Linux, be vocal about it. Donate money, file bug reports, complain and let people know what you need. Buy from companies leading the way like System76 and Purism. (I bought from System76, highly recommended)<p>Linux has been built and used by brilliant mechanics, but it is time for Linux to be used by all.
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jliptzinover 3 years ago
Here&#x27;s my take on this<p>I think this was Apple calling the US government&#x27;s bluff. I don&#x27;t think they ever wanted to do anything like this because they know it destroys their claims of superior privacy. I think they have internal plans to roll out E2E iCloud encryption so that in addition to not being able to provide law enforcement the code to unlock any phone, they also won&#x27;t be able to help law enforcement decrypt anything stored in iCloud, including those phone backups. So Apple sees the incoming fight where government cries foul to the public, making the same tried and true &quot;think of the children&quot; arguments, saying now all pedophiles will be free to save their CSAM on Apple servers. It&#x27;s the government&#x27;s way to try to get the public against Apple on this, and this is how Apple neuters that argument.<p>But I don&#x27;t think anyone in the government really cares about the CSAM. What they really want is backdoor access to the devices for the high-value targets that they actually care about, or just to make their jobs a lot easier in other investigations, but that&#x27;s a lot harder to sell to the public. Look at Facebook alone. They made 20 MILLION CSAM reports last year ALONE. That number was astounding to me. I haven&#x27;t heard anyone discuss the sheer numbers yet. Think about that for a second. That&#x27;s one company, making 55,000 CSAM reports PER DAY. The equivalent of a medium sized city being reported for CSAM materials every day! I don&#x27;t know how many people work in government handling those reports, but I&#x27;d imagine the process of taking in reports, evaluating them, forwarding them to appropriate authorities, and then making arrests is not one that can possibly be automated away to deal with that kind of volume. And Apple would generate at least as many reports as Facebook I&#x27;d imagine, not to mention all the other sources of CSAM reports that are out there. Do we really think there&#x27;s anyone in law enforcement who is saying &quot;oh gee, if only we had an ADDITIONAL 55,000 CSAM reports coming in PER DAY then we&#x27;d really be able to get a handle on the problem.&quot; If anything, that just provides even more noise, making it harder to find real signals.<p>So now that they&#x27;ve shown they&#x27;re willing to call law enforcement&#x27;s bluff, I think law enforcement predictably has now said to them ok, it&#x27;s not really about the CSAM, we still want backdoor access for other reasons, and now Apple is reevaluating their response.<p>The issue for Apple though is that even if they&#x27;re legally allowed to say no to law enforcement requests to open up backdoors, they&#x27;re probably being extorted by law enforcement threatening to come down on them for antitrust issues if they don&#x27;t go along with it. Smaller companies that don&#x27;t have antitrust issues to worry about would be able to put up a much more resilient fight.
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mlindnerover 3 years ago
Good! Now expose fully how it works and open it up to bug bounties for people to show how easy it is to insert a backdoor image into the system.
Machaover 3 years ago
I&#x27;m pleasantly surprised Apple backed down on well... anything. Especially this.<p>However, macrumors has probably the most user-hostile gdpr modal I&#x27;ve encountered.<p>1. I used it on my android device. The modal popped up, I gave it several seconds to load in, everything seemed stable, I go to tap the settings dialog and... up jumps the modal and registers a click on the accept button.<p>2. Want to go fix it after the fact? Go to the footer, find the privacy link, find the link in the middle of the policy, now you get the desktop modal on the site.<p>3. Everything shows consent default off, so all good right? Nope. Expand out the toggles and you&#x27;ll see under the &quot;Personalised ads&quot; a set of more granular toggles.<p>4. So toggle them off and you&#x27;re good, right? Nope, each of them you need to tap into and get to a new screen. This new screen has two modals, one for consent, and one defaulted in for legitimate interest. One screen per sub modal, and the only way to go back to get to the others is to click &quot;Back&quot; in the top left, which leaves you at the root of the flow.<p>I have seen this particular modal on or two other sites, and finding yet another layer to bury the controls in seems to be a new &quot;innovation&quot; in this regard. Hopefully they&#x27;re one of the sites targeted by noyb&#x27;s enforcement complaints.
m0zgover 3 years ago
Really makes you think why a trillion dollar corporation would want to severely undermine its most important asset, its brand, over something like this. It ain&#x27;t &quot;children&quot; I can tell you that.
s1artibartfastover 3 years ago
I wonder how such a feature could even distinguish legitimate use. What if I want to take pic pictures of a strange vaginal discharge to send to my child&#x27;s pediatrician? Am I now on a list? What if I want family photos of my happy naked baby playing?
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kf6nuxover 3 years ago
I bet people would have had no problem with the CSAM on-device scanning if it involved neither Apple employees snooping on your photos nor government reporting.<p>e.g. if they made it so their software simply refused to upload a photo and inform the user why it refused to upload it, then there&#x27;s no privacy issue (at least not until they do add a backdoor later on).
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arrty88over 3 years ago
Must have taken an act of congress. Imagine that. Powerful people dont want their photos analyzed. Hmmm
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thresholdover 3 years ago
This technology could have led to the arrests of hardcore criminals and spared some poor children a very difficult life. Well now we know where this generations priorities and values stand.
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