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A generation of American men give up on college

397 pointsby flowerbeaterover 3 years ago

53 comments

neonateover 3 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;DFwi7" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;DFwi7</a>
baron816over 3 years ago
A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more.<p>I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire generation that feels lost, without purpose, and unwanted.
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zeptoover 3 years ago
“Young men get little help, in part, because schools are focused on encouraging historically underrepresented students. Jerlando Jackson, department chair, Education Leadership and Policy Analysis, at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Education, said few campuses have been willing to spend limited funds on male underachievement that would also benefit white men, risking criticism for assisting those who have historically held the biggest educational advantages.”<p>So this is a direct result of the move away from color blind policies, to race based policies.<p>&gt; Keith E. Smith, a mental-health counselor and men’s outreach coordinator at the University of Vermont, said that when he started working at the school in 2006 he found that men were much more likely to face consequences for the trouble they caused under the influence of drugs and alcohol.<p>This is exactly what black students report as racism in school.<p>Seems like evidence that race based policies are just racist.<p>&gt; In 2008, Mr. Smith proposed a men’s center to help male students succeed. The proposal drew criticism from women who asked, “Why would you give more resources to the most privileged group on campus,” he said. Funding wasn’t appropriated, he said, and the center was never built.<p>Obviously white men are not in fact privileged on university campuses.<p>“Female students in the U.S. benefit from a support system established decades ago, spanning a period when women struggled to gain a foothold on college campuses. There are more than 500 women’s centers at schools nationwide. Most centers host clubs and organizations that work to help female students succeed.”<p>Men are failing <i>because it is the policy not to support them.</i>
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_Nat_over 3 years ago
That&#x27;s an interesting figure they&#x27;ve got!<p>Observations (based on the figure alone):<p>1. White-Males had the lowest college-enrollment-rates across all categories. They got the lowest in the two lowest income-brackets; basically a three-way tie in the next income-bracket; and just a little higher than Hispanic-Males in the highest income-bracket.<p>2. Asians had the highest enrollment-rates across all income-brackets.<p>3. Asians were relatively constant in their enrollment-rates, regardless of income or gender, always above 70%. (Always above ~83%, if excluding the lowest income-bracket.) The gender-gap still leaned toward Asian-Females over Asian-Males, but not by much.<p>4. Blacks varied heavily by income. Blacks had pretty low enrollment-rates in the lowest income-bracket, but got some of the highest enrollment-rates in the higher income-brackets (after Asians).<p>5. Black-Females had an odd pattern-deviation: like Black-Males, their enrollment-rates increased dramatically with family-income, getting the highest non-Asian enrollment-rate by the second-highest income-bracket. But then, oddly, their enrollment-rate fell by ~8% from the second-highest to the highest income-bracket.<p>6. Hispanics were pretty consistent with Whites, especially for Males. For Females, Whites had higher rates in the lowest income-bracket, while Hispanics had somewhat higher rates in all other income-brackets.<p>7. Ignoring race, enrollment-rates increased significantly with family-income.<p>8. Ignoring race, enrollment-rates were much higher for Females than Males across all income-brackets.
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whywhywhywhyover 3 years ago
Great news, the concept that you need college to succeed was one of the greatest lies told to my generation. Pleased the next generation is waking up.<p>End of the day if the loan can&#x27;t be written off, if the loan is just handed out to 18 year olds and has almost no limit then the organization that asks for the loan will inevitably balloon out of all proportion and no longer be reflective at all of the value you get back for almost all cases.<p>I say that as someone who managed to actually pay off their student loan, dread to think how people who are late 30s, still renting and still with 5 figures of college debt feel.<p>Hope this trend continues, why throw away the down payment of a mortgage to an institution that has spent the past decade telling you they don&#x27;t want you. If in 10 years I&#x27;m seeing headlines about colleges unable to stay open from low admissions I&#x27;ll be smiling.
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ceilingcornerover 3 years ago
COVID has accelerated this big time. Why spend $5,000 a semester to watch a Zoom lecture from an average professor when you can open YouTube in a new tab and see a world-class professor share the same information for free? It makes no rational sense.<p>The moment that a serious, legitimate credential system appears, every average university will disappear overnight. We&#x27;ll be left with an oligarch class that attends the top ±30 universities and everyone else getting a AmaGoogBook certificate of completion.
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teekertover 3 years ago
I can understand this. I think my parents never questioned the usefulness of a formal education. But I am starting to.<p>My brother tried several different educational paths, pushed by my parents. In the end he got a sort of burnout. After years now he is picking up some work, mainly helping elderly still living alone on any tasks (from computer related to doing groceries). He seems happy, finally.<p>My other brother hated all his schools, got bullied a lot, he specialized in agriculture in the end. Now he&#x27;s a truck driver (with one of those super big ones), he likes it. He can still give nice advice on what to plant in my garden, so there&#x27;s that.<p>I see that my son is also really interested in many things, but school is not so much &quot;his thing&quot;. Sitting still, listening, it&#x27;s not making him happy. If he has any aspiration of building a life without formal schooling I&#x27;d support it. There is so much to learn online. He can be an entrepreneur and we can help him get there. In fact, I&#x27;d enjoy it.<p>Who knows with the insane cost of education, this generation of men may end up self-taught, happy and (in the US important) debt free. Maybe we should worry about the people missing out on this opportunity?
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motohagiographyover 3 years ago
What these men don&#x27;t understand, and nobody is telling them directly, is that college is how you essesntially conspire to manage (extract value from) the people who didn&#x27;t go. College education is a tribe initiation, and you are in or you aren&#x27;t. The pretenses and pretexts of subject matter and socializing are secondary to this one big thing.<p>Everyone who graduates knows this, and this is the quiet part most won&#x27;t even say out loud to themselves, and so we hear it&#x27;s for other reasons like knowledge, relationships, and the experience. We will deny it and even gaslight people over it, because it&#x27;s our source of social power, but for young men who need the concept framed concretely, this is the real choice.<p>What these young men need to be told is: the way the world really works is, there are people who graduated, and people who didn&#x27;t. The latter almost exclusively work for the former, and the former find each other so that they can assign them to manage the latter on their behalf. Further, the former work together to ensure that they do not work for the latter, or have any accountability to them. As an individual non-graduate, you will <i>always</i> be working against a literal conspiracy against you. The exceptions who appear to &quot;break through&quot; and succeed, mainly exist and have their stories promoted to preserve the invisibility of the ceiling and keep you running on hope.<p>Sure, you can make &quot;six figures&quot; (the stupidest euphemism for 100k that is the very bottom end salary of membership in the current elite) in a trades job, but what you will not have is opportunity. Salary means nothing if it is not supported by opportunity, autonomy, leverage into assets, and transferrable social status to your kids.<p>The result is predictable, where they&#x27;re having their countries, political levers, cultures and opportunities taken from them because they didn&#x27;t realize they needed defending.<p>If you have decided not to graduate, welcome to the underclass. They&#x27;ll tell you that you do it to yourself, and you&#x27;ll probably never understand.
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alexitorgover 3 years ago
I figured that this was more of less rational. In Australia, men have more options for decent traditional jobs without a degree. Construction, Manufacture, Mining, Agriculture, fisheries, warehousing, transport, utilities are all male dominated sectors, mostly not requiring a degree. Retail, food and accommodation services only just skew female. The big area where women are employed in much greater numbers than men is nursing&#x2F;social work and teaching. All of which are increasingly becoming bachelor degrees. Historically these didn&#x27;t require a bachelor&#x27;s degree, just one year diploma or a two year or certificate. There is a trend for these work forces to become more qualified, take more responsibility and get paid more. Industry stats: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lmip.gov.au&#x2F;default.aspx?LMIP&#x2F;LFR_SAFOUR&#x2F;LFR_Industry_Gender" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;lmip.gov.au&#x2F;default.aspx?LMIP&#x2F;LFR_SAFOUR&#x2F;LFR_Industr...</a>
frankbreetzover 3 years ago
On the other side: A stat shared at my most recent tech companies meeting, they are trying to hire more women.<p>5000 people applied for a single position and 15 of them were women. This was for a high paying tech job.
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throwinthsawayover 3 years ago
Getting into debt to get a piece of paper that only lets you begin to enter the job market after gathering enough credentials by either working for free or talking to others and hopefully trying your luck even though there are 100s for a single internship... College is a scam unless you&#x27;re paying close attention and don&#x27;t get into debt in the first place.<p>Those who manage to jump through all of the hoops don&#x27;t realize that there is a secondary scam waiting for them: working for a wage without significant stock options while someone makes millions sitting around doing nothing off of their effort. We&#x27;ve had movies made about this for many years and still it&#x27;s so strange how it&#x27;s not acknowledged.<p>Also: who is friend or foe? The lines have blurred significantly, which is a driving force in WANTING to change things in the first place. There&#x27;s even loss of solidarity between family members, next generations.<p>There&#x27;s no incentive to try. If I were the same age as these young men, I wouldn&#x27;t bother either.
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usename_Hereover 3 years ago
I agree on some of the points about support structures for women that don&#x27;t exist for men. I&#x27;ve seen it occur even at the professional level, female co-workers are reached out to, invited to groups, given networking opportunities that I would have to put loads of effort to keep up with. It&#x27;s biased treatment in the now, even if it&#x27;s trying to offset the errors of the past.
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pwthorntonover 3 years ago
The thing that struck me right off the bat was that the lead photo of this story is of 18-year-old with a PS5 and pretty sweet setup in his bedroom. I don&#x27;t have anything deep to add to this, but if you can sit at home in your childhood bedroom indefinitely playing video games and working menial jobs, maybe the allure is there.
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temp8964over 3 years ago
One thing is kind of obvious is that male-concentrated majors (hard sciences) in colleges are much much harder than female-concentrated majors (humanities, social sciences), see: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;whyvert&#x2F;status&#x2F;1434944460526342147" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;whyvert&#x2F;status&#x2F;1434944460526342147</a>
Arete314159over 3 years ago
One guy they profiled is making $20 an hour in Toledo, Ohio. If he&#x27;s working full time, that&#x27;s 40k a year.<p>Zillow has a <i>number</i> of houses for sale in Toledo for under $40k. Like, they need some work, but a real house, under 40k.<p>I think that guy is doing fine, he should just keep doing exactly what he&#x27;s doing.
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clipradiowalletover 3 years ago
Boilerplate job&#x2F;career options for young men thinking about attending vs not attending college...<p>1) Enlist in the military. pay is sub-par, but your living expenses are well taken care of. picking a job that has a civilian equivalent is clutch here.. eg combat medic, electrician, plumber, various IT-related fields.<p>2) Skilled trades - eg plumber, electrician, HVAC-related. These pay from 50k to 150k depending on what type of work you do. The &quot;high end&quot; for example being a new-construction electrician, working for themselves, making $75&#x2F;hr with overtime. All these fields have high job security - plumbing, electricity, and HVAC are not a &#x27;fad&#x27;, and are likely to increase in demand over time.<p>3) Own a &quot;low tech&quot; business, the sort you might already work for if you are a teenager. Eg...landscaping. You can make $15&#x2F;hr running a weed eater, or with a small investment and some people skills - you can pay other people $15&#x2F;hr to run a weed eater, and you run the business. This is more difficult than it seems on the surface (management and people skills), but it is not something you need a college education to succeed at.<p>4) Specialty&#x2F;niche fields...these are more difficult to break into if you don&#x27;t know someone already. Some examples are mosquito spraying(for a city), [water] well digging, or roadside assistance for a larger contract(like cell phone roadside assistance, AAA, or dealer contracts). These are easier to break into if you already know someone who owns that type of business, who will show you the ropes so you know what you are getting into.<p>This isn&#x27;t an exhaustive list by any means, but hopefully someone finds it stimulating enough to come up with some ideas about work options that do not involve a mountain of student debt.
Simon321over 3 years ago
To people recommending trades, there&#x27;s nothing wrong with trades, but you can get more out of college than only a job. You can actually learn things that you wouldn&#x27;t have learned otherwise. The environment also naturally stimulates and values learning, gathering knowledge and understanding. You can learn how to become a better person and think more critically.<p>Seeing how many misinformation is going around and the people swallowing it, this seems more important than ever before.
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albntomat0over 3 years ago
“Over the course of their working lives, American college graduates earn more than a million dollars beyond those with only a high-school diploma, and a university diploma is required for many jobs as well as most professions, technical work and positions of influence.”<p>From the article.<p>There are folks getting useless degrees and&#x2F;or taking on too much debt, but getting a college degree on the whole is worthwhile.
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mikewarotover 3 years ago
Unless you&#x27;re going to be a Professional Engineer or some other licensed individual, or you&#x27;re getting a free ride, college isn&#x27;t worth it any more.<p>Going deep into debt for a credential that doesn&#x27;t have a reasonably large future value is a huge mistake many are pushed into making.
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PaulHouleover 3 years ago
I went to pick up a book at the circulation desk at my uni close to the first day of classes and of the people in front of me and in back of me there were 9 girls and 0 boys in line.<p>If the class were gender-balanced the odds of that would be 1&#x2F;512; I have no idea what it means (&quot;girls are much more interested in using the library?&quot;) but I think it&#x27;s significant.
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blippageover 3 years ago
Brit here, in my 50&#x27;s. Everyone should - or ought - to receive a good general level of education at GCSEs (i.e. 14&#x2F;15 year old). Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, English, etc.. You&#x27;ll know a fair bit about these subjects if you study for them in school. Very few people actually &quot;need&quot; training beyond that; although I would of course expect my doctor to know rather more than what&#x27;s in a biology GCSE.<p>My former boss of the department learned enough chemistry through self-study. I heard Raspberry Pi was hiring guys to work as microchip design with little prior exposure.<p>In my worldview, everyone gets their GCSEs and goes and gets a job. OR, they follow a trade route, and attend a technical college (in the UK meaning of the word) to learn a skill. OR, the really brainy ones take an academic route, get their A levels, then head off to university to become part of the intellectual elite. I&#x27;m thinking 5% of the population here. OR, you get your A levels and then go into a polytechnic for a highly-skilled vocational job.<p>Polytechnics don&#x27;t really exist anymore, they&#x27;ve all converted to universities.<p>Basically, we should all just return to an educational system that we had in the 70&#x27;s. It was a system that wasn&#x27;t broken, but we decided to &quot;fix&quot; it anyway.
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dehrmannover 3 years ago
I&#x27;ll repeat what tech companies love to say about hiring underrepresented classes: it&#x27;s a pipeline problem. Because of a combination of social reasons, maturity, curricula, and pedagogy, men don&#x27;t perform as well as women academically. Look at the graph on the top of this[1]. Men have lower GPAs in every subject. It&#x27;s not surprising that leads to fewer going to college and fewer graduating.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.act.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;dam&#x2F;act&#x2F;unsecured&#x2F;documents&#x2F;Info-Brief-2014-12.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.act.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;dam&#x2F;act&#x2F;unsecured&#x2F;documents&#x2F;Info...</a>
phendrenad2over 3 years ago
This is because in our society, it&#x27;s more acceptable for men to drop out and get into some skilled trade, like plumbing or climbing telephone poles. People just won&#x27;t accept that women can also do that. So there&#x27;s a lot of pressure to make sure your female children go to college and get a degree.
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notfromhereover 3 years ago
There’s a lot of anti-intellectualism that floats around in male culture, and a pernicious attitude that you can make it without a degree (despite the reality that a lack of credentials locks you out of most high paying or leadership roles).<p>Tech likes to pretend credentials don’t matter, but that’s entirely not true.<p>Not surprising that enrollment is down when too many men think learning things is for nerds.<p>Source: am an American male
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torstenvlover 3 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;7NeJl" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;7NeJl</a>
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KingOfCodersover 3 years ago
The last psychiatrist once wrote that women go where men are leaving.<p>I don&#x27;t know if this is true, but it seems to pop up in several areas.
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spodekover 3 years ago
<i>The Boy Crisis</i> by Warren Farrell covers this issue comprehensively. There are many beliefs and practices in our society that push boys and men out, especially in school.<p>If you read the article, I recommend at least the free preview from Amazon: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Boy-Crisis-Boys-Struggling-About&#x2F;dp&#x2F;1948836130" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Boy-Crisis-Boys-Struggling-About&#x2F;dp&#x2F;1...</a>
ano88888over 3 years ago
Not everyone will become a self learning programmer. There are many subjects that college is best suited for. I actually see this as the decline of America. When a generation doesn&#x27;t value education anymore, this is how China gets ahead of you.
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gamechangrover 3 years ago
We need learning certified but not controlled, both in cost and required general learning.<p>2 year associate degrees from community college are very affordable and cover the general education. Even those going into other work could afford that and their employer could offer assistance if not. If for example, the cost of a 2 year associates degree was $5,000- $10,000. That would make college affordable, but we as a society would have to recognize that as more than it currently is recognized for.<p>The 4 year degree is meaningless now. It doesn&#x27;t even translate to a useable skill most the time, but it&#x27;s become the bare minimum.<p>Then if certificates of specific skills...say &quot;certificate of statistics&quot; which could just be 3-5 classes on statistics were added for those who could afford it, that would bring down the cost.<p>The idea of &quot;going to college&quot; and moving on campus is not an economical decision most 20 years old are prepared enough to understand. There appears to be too many people losing from that bet.
notjesover 3 years ago
And women are more depressed than ever, swallowing Xanax by the hand full. Consumption of anti depressants rose 50% in the last 15 years, especially by women. 1&#x2F;4 of women and 1&#x2F;10 of men are doing it by now. One might argue, it is a very degen society if women need 1lb of happy pills per month to endure it.
betwixthewiresover 3 years ago
I&#x27;m one of these men. Of course I chose nor to go at a time when the ratio was closer to 1:1. It&#x27;s one of the best decisions I ever made, I stumbled into it and didn&#x27;t even make a deliberate decision, I felt bad about it for a few years. A happy accident I guess.<p>And I&#x27;ve done well for myself. I hear college graduates earn more over their lifetimes but anecdotally I don&#x27;t see it. Financially I&#x27;m doing better than almost every person I know that went, the vast majority of my peers who went have a negative net worth due to student debt and own no property, so the bar is low, but I&#x27;m doing fantastic. I think the truth is, when credentials aren&#x27;t rare, how well you do is more based on your mind and some quality you have than on credentials.
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xqcgrek2over 3 years ago
The proliferation of video games, especially online ones could also be a reason (besides the cost-benefit of attending college that is declining which other people already mentioned)
gigatexalover 3 years ago
More folks should be given the option for vocational training in blue collar roles that pay really really well. Ever had a decent electrician or plumber come to your house to fix something? They make bank&#x2F;hr. Or even a welder or carpenter etc etc not the whole world needs to be tech service workers, the economy is more nuanced than that.<p>But social stigma stemms from everything from dating to parents to friends etc if one does not complete a 4-year degree.<p>Most tech firms are lifitng the requirement for such a degree as in tech if you can do the work you can do the work and can (I&#x27;d say should) be hired. (In a sense, most coding&#x2F;programming work is blue collar in that sense -- you don&#x27;t need rocket science to center a div ;)
cblconfederateover 3 years ago
&gt; “I’m sort of waiting for a light to come on so I figure out what to do next,” he said.<p>Interesting. Maybe guys who are not super-interested scientifically in a subject realize that it becomes a waste of time. Even their academically inclined peers will struggle since there arent nearly enough academic prospects for the number of Phd graduates. Then also these men grew up watching youtube stars etc. making it big without formal education.<p>Maybe these men should be encouraged to get their education in europe. Credentialism of Ivy Leagues is becoming increasingly irrelevant, but the academic environment is still stimulating and not hostile to either men or women.
raxxorraxover 3 years ago
This seems to happen in a parallel universe. From my first semester at university with 120 students, 5 were women. Out of those 1 made it till the end, which is more or less exactly the average of those that actually got their degree in the standard period of study.<p>That said, I think university doesn&#x27;t count as much as it did before. At least in softwareworld you can make it without a degree just fine. You have disadvantages for some higher positions in large companies. But who wants to do that job anyway? It seems rather unattractive today.
SandunGunnover 3 years ago
Curious what that means for society if the trend continues. The single people I know are only interested in finding someone in the same education bracket.<p>Does this lead to many more unmarried people like Japan?
dreenover 3 years ago
If you make anything a product you better make sure it is worth the money you are asking for it.<p>Clearly, this is not the case with paid education in US, UK and some other developed countries.
bigbillheckover 3 years ago
A lot of people in the comments here are spinning it as if boys are being systematically discriminated against when the article explicitly says the opposite:<p>&gt;&gt;&gt; “Is there a thumb on the scale for boys? Absolutely,” said Jennifer Delahunty, a college enrollment consultant<p>And many aren&#x27;t even putting in the proper diligence:<p>&gt;&gt;&gt; &quot;Ms. Gereghty said she found that girls more closely attended to their college applications than boys, for instance making sure transcripts are delivered.&quot;
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dqpbover 3 years ago
There is a small window of opportunity here to replace these institutes with something better before our society goes into full auto-immune disorder.
bawanaover 3 years ago
Maybe we could have once justified the premium charged by US universities. But now you can get excellent education in most of the world FOR FREE. To see how this impacts our jobs at home, just look at the healthcare field. Most new physicians are imported from abroad. They can work for less because they do not have massive loans to repay.
paulcoleover 3 years ago
There’s no idea that rich white people love to push more than the idea that college is unnecessary (yet nearly all of them went to college and you won’t find their kids going to trade school).<p>It’s part gatekeeping and part wishful thinking.
underseacablesover 3 years ago
Core classes should be cut in Half at least. University has become grossly over priced, because the government is picking up the tab, which has incentivized universities to add as many costs and classes as possible.
phoehneover 3 years ago
4 unpopular opinions from an old:<p>1) There&#x27;s a point to education. Decide what you&#x27;re going to do and then prepare for it. Most likely you will need to get a job that either does something for someone because it&#x27;s specialized, do something for someone because it&#x27;s boring, or you will entertain people. If you want to be an electrician, great, line that up and get on with it. We need electricians. Going to college isn&#x27;t a goal. It&#x27;s a strategy to get to a goal, but that&#x27;s not what we tell kids. We tell them it&#x27;s the goal. If you want to go to college because you want to work as a civil engineer - awesome - we need civil engineers. Going to college to study civil engineering isn&#x27;t the goal - working as a civil engineer is the goal. Many jobs, like licensed Civil Engineer, oncologist, or attorney from YouTube videos (even if you read <i>all</i> the comments), require education ** as a strategy to get the job **. Other jobs require you work for a licensed practitioner. Some require a mix of the two (e.g. CPA or Welder).<p>2) I see too many men have extended adolescences into their 40&#x27;s. If you want to man up, here&#x27;s the list: 1) take care of the kids, 2) take care of the spouse, 3) take care of your job, 4) take care of your house, 5) your community, and somewhere along 8, 9 or 10 is &#x27;spend Saturday on the phone with you college buddies from 2007, on your fantasy draft.&#x27; If you&#x27;re childless an unmarried, the list is 1) take care of your job, take care of your house, 3) take care of your community. I see too many guys with the list that focuses on fun. Many of them are unmarried. Mammals are expected to invest in their children. Men who show no ability to invest in anything besides themselves are probably signaling they are poor choices as mates. This is not to say they can&#x27;t get laid, but are probably not messaging well as a long term bet. I suspect they over-compensate for their poor signaling by signaling hyper masculinity. They buy trucks they don&#x27;t need, spend too much time at the gym, or engage in high-risk activities.<p>3) The better the job, the farther it is away from being automated. No one runs to a room to look up your records at the DMV any more - we&#x27;ve automated those clerks away through computers. Call centers are largely automated - thanks to computers. Bus and truck drivers will eventually be automated away - thanks to computers. If your job can be done by anyone with a few hours or days of training, chances are it will be automated away. This includes programmers, as well. Companies like Square will chip away at the market from the bottom up and hyper-scalers from the top down. Developers with the depth of knowledge (usually obtained by getting degrees and often advanced degrees) are better off than going through a boot camp to put buttons on a page. Whatever your field, make sure you are able to do something that automating it away would be impractical.<p>4) Some skills and jobs are more valuable than others. If you want to be a music producer or DJ, awesome. You be you. Just realize that unless you&#x27;re better than 99.999% of the other wannabe music producers, DJs, indie game developers, founders with a &#x27;great idea,&#x27; or whatever it is, you will make little money. If you want to be a successful book keeper, it&#x27;s nowhere near as hard and requires only a little more preparation. While people may stream your latest mix on as free wall paper music, they will pay you good money to maintain their financial records and any related filings with the US Treasury or state agencies. That&#x27;s not saying music is worthless, but it does say the average book keeper is more valuable to most people than the average musician. You&#x27;re more likely to pay off that degree you got in Empathy Studies as a book keeper than DJ.<p>What does all this have to do with the article? 1) people are becoming disillusioned with education for the wrong reason. They think that being smart and learned is just a con because they (or someone they know) got an education in a random major and is struggling. 2) Growing up asks how you can be of service rather than how someone can serve you - and I see a lot of men not growing up. Signaling you&#x27;re a grownup will generally improve your fit and function in a society where people expect grownups. 3) Easy jobs disappear easily - you need to have enough investment in your skill, trade, or business that you provide more value than a shell script. 4) No one cares about your shitty music except maybe your girlfriend (she&#x27;s lying) and your mother (also lying). Even if you&#x27;re an entrepreneur, you&#x27;re filling a need for someone else so think about the utility and value of what you&#x27;re doing.<p>That&#x27;s it. That&#x27;s all there is to it.
fnord77over 3 years ago
born a generation too late to enjoy the 40:60 m&#x2F;f ratio... oh well
mhbover 3 years ago
Video Games and the (Male) Meaning of Life: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;quillette.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;12&#x2F;14&#x2F;video-games-and-the-male-meaning-of-life&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;quillette.com&#x2F;2018&#x2F;12&#x2F;14&#x2F;video-games-and-the-male-me...</a>
babeshover 3 years ago
The same is occurring in some Scandinavian countries.
adolphover 3 years ago
Cue article in about ten to fifteen years saying women have a wealth gap because they waste a significant portion of a decade pursuing and not completing degrees that lead to productive careers.
wasmburgerover 3 years ago
I wonder if it could be because masculinity is being challenged on campus in the current era. Why would a male who has issues with women want to go to a place where he will be challenged to change his views in sensitivty and toxic masculinity courses? Conversely, why would a male who does not have issues with women go to a place where he will be labeled as having toxic masculinity? It&#x27;s not like these issues haven&#x27;t been all over the press for years.<p>#MeToo Is Making Colleges Teach Toxic Masculinity 101<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thedailybeast.com&#x2F;metoo-is-making-colleges-teach-toxic-masculinity-101" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thedailybeast.com&#x2F;metoo-is-making-colleges-teach...</a><p>Toxic Masculinity and Higher Education<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.higheredjobs.com&#x2F;Articles&#x2F;articleDisplay.cfm?ID=2033" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.higheredjobs.com&#x2F;Articles&#x2F;articleDisplay.cfm?ID=...</a><p>And so on. A quick search turns up 1000&#x27;s of such links
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swileyover 3 years ago
If after 4 years and a lot of debt you’re still not able to sleep inside by yourself or get a girlfriend is it really worth it?
8eyeover 3 years ago
something about college men and a paywall
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jsnider3over 3 years ago
Did WSJ change their paywall again? I can&#x27;t get around it.
rayinerover 3 years ago
My younger brother in law is in college at a flagship state school. He’s doing it to check the box and show he can maintain a good gpa. But it’s unclear to me what the point is outside helping employers screen potential candidates.
zz865over 3 years ago
I did tech degrees, but its pretty amazing going to other parts of the campus where there are 2 or 3 or more women for every man in the building. Its also weird to see lots of well educated female friends finding it really hard to find someone to settle down with. Yeah they should probably lower their standards but honestly deep down most guys dont want an over educated achiever wife.
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