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For the first time in history, St Andrews outranks Oxbridge

30 pointsby s15624over 3 years ago

9 comments

neonateover 3 years ago
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ThePhysicistover 3 years ago
As a student I used to obsess over university rankings, but I realize now that most of them are massively gamed. My alma mater, the UPMC (Université Pierre et Marie Curie) e.g. merged with other universities in Paris to form the Sorbonne University, mostly to move up in the worldwide ranking. So, it&#x27;s still largely the same university with the same funding and the same chairs, but since it&#x27;s bundled up in a larger package it now gets some extra vanity points.<p>IMHO, as a PhD student, what really matters is not how well your university is ranked but how well your research group is organized and how much the people there support you. I know students who went to do their PhDs in the groups of nobel prize winners because of the associated fame, only to find out that they&#x27;re not very &quot;hungry&quot; anymore (in the sense that they&#x27;re already at the top of their fame and not always eager to pursue new risky and innovative research) and are often so busy that they could only speak with them for a few hours over the entire duration of their PhD. So my advice is to go to a group with people that are still &quot;hungry&quot; and that actually have time to coach you.
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bluenose69over 3 years ago
A ranking that is (was?) used by a magazine in Canada asked university presidents something like which university (apart from their own) that they regard most highly. It always seemed to me that this was a good question.<p>Universities nowadays focus a lot on these rankings, to the detriment of students. If the rankings added a category for clean washrooms, universities would stop buying books and start scrubbing. Bean counters perform cost:benefit analyses to set policies and redirect funding. You don&#x27;t want to be the person in the meeting saying &quot;um, but library books are important, aren&#x27;t they?&quot;.<p>Deciding on a university based on an <i>overall</i> score is not a good plan. Focus on the things you care about. You&#x27;ll likely find that there is no ranking category that matches up to your interest. So, visit the website. Or visit the university. Or (for graduate studies) contact professors and students. Talk with people, generally. And don&#x27;t forget that there are other factors. Are you keen on cities or the country? Do you want to be near your family? Can you afford the university?
bencollier49over 3 years ago
Due to student satisfaction.<p>It should be noted that Scottish students don&#x27;t pay (significant) tuition fees.
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DC-3over 3 years ago
League tables can declare what they like, the fact of the matter is that Oxbridge has been considered the gold standard of British university education since the Plantaganets, and I don&#x27;t see that perception shifting easily.
mathieuhover 3 years ago
In my experience the only people who care about these rankings are 17- and 18-year-olds applying for places.<p>And the rankings can show the opposite of how people actual view the unis. Where I am we have a Russell Group uni and an ex-poly. I went to the Russell Group uni and did computer science, solely because it is a Russell Group uni. In reality, everyone in the local market knows that the ex-poly&#x27;s computer science course prepares you better for industry.<p>On the whole though, no one really cares. I can barely remember what I got for my A levels, I can&#x27;t even remember how many GCSEs I did.<p>It really doesn&#x27;t matter in my experience.
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jack_rimintonover 3 years ago
Whenever a rankings table comes out with a result like this it probably succeeds in selling some papers, but it also diminishes the esteem of the rankings table<p>I&#x27;m sure that St Andrews is a brilliant college. But very few in academia would say its as brilliant as Oxbridge
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bsd44over 3 years ago
I am looking at their document* explaining methodology behind the ranking criteria and I am still to understand which of those indicate quality of programme. All five sections revolve around research and the data is collected mostly from Elsevier.<p>So St Andrews outranks Oxbridge for the first time. Outranks in what? What does &quot;best&quot; mean? I think these rankings should better explain in the title what they indicate. It seems to me they compete in prestige and not quality of teaching which is what prospective students look for.<p>All programmes in the country are standardised and cover the same required topics, so the only major difference there can be is the way these topics are presented to students. The research game is separate from the teaching entirely and shouldn&#x27;t be considered as an indication of anything in the undergraduate realm.<p>* <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.timeshighereducation.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;breaking_news_files&#x2F;the_2021_world_university_rankings_methodology_24082020final.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.timeshighereducation.com&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;bre...</a>
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dkarpover 3 years ago
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