> I tried a few of those Kinesis split keyboards. Too squishy for me. Not far enough apart. The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares. Muscle memory made it difficult to switch.<p>This is a really cool hack, and I’m happy that the author found a solution for their pain that works for them, but this bit confused me.<p>Kinesis are keyboards with separated key clusters, but not split keyboards. When one says split keyboard I think they are normally talking about things like the Ergodox EZ/Moonlander which have two physically separate bodies, one for each hand. There are many different models of these with various shapes and sizes, and you can separate them as much as you like. The normal advice is to set them up around shoulder width apart so you aren’t rounding your back to bring your arms together.<p>Most of these kinds of keyboards also support whatever key switches you prefer, and there are plenty of options that are sufficiently quiet for zoom (pretty much anything linear should do the trick)<p>I have been using a Moonlander for a couple of years now, and an EZ before that. They are expensive at around $400 but I don’t think I can ever go back. Most of these split keyboards also run QMK so you can setup binds, layers, and generally configure them however you like.
There are probably multiple different causes for RSI in programmers, but for me, a regular keyboard is fine. Even my slouch is fine. I type with my elbows on the table and it's fine.<p>It's the mouse that killed me. A handful of years after graduating from college, I thought my programming career was over because the pain in my neck and shoulders was so bad I couldn't type. I went to a bunch of doctors, neurologists, physiotherapy, etc but nothing helped, not even medication.<p>It turns out twisting my right hand outward in order to accommodate my mouse to the right of my keyboard was the culprit. I changed my entire set up so that my mouse is away from my keyboard when I type, and when I need to use the mouse, I push my keyboard away and have the mouse on the table in the center of my body, with my wrist slightly twisted so that it mimics writing with a pencil. That's also why Macbooks and similar laptops are fine with my because it's in the middle.<p>Once I switched to this technique, my carpal tunnel went away. It's been over 25 years now with no pain. Like I said, different people probably have different causes of carpal tunnel, but for me this was the precise reason.
I find it really odd that the OP is staring down the barrel of an RSI that's going to inexorably lock them (presumably) out of their career and passion, but the learning curve for a proper ergonomic keyboard seemed to high. I was up to an acceptable 40WPM on the Ergodox a week after switching, and his complaints about "<i>the</i> Cherry MX" switches fall a little flat since there's about a dozen different kinds, all with different noise and tactile characteristics.<p>I just can't fathom all that unused space on my desk (two halves of two keyboards, going totally unused!) when the investment in some natural-feeling typing infrastructure was relatively small given how much pain I've avoided, and will continue to avoid.<p>Edit: clearer word order
I created a filter able gallery of split, mechanical keyboards to help people browse through the kind of things that are available.<p><a href="https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/" rel="nofollow">https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/</a><p>Xah Lee has a page with some non-mechanical options listed.<p><a href="http://xahlee.info/kbd/ergonomic_keyboards_index.html" rel="nofollow">http://xahlee.info/kbd/ergonomic_keyboards_index.html</a>
If you're interested in split keyboards, check out the Keyboard.io Model 100[1], which will be shipping in January. They're a reputable company, having already successfully sold the Model 01 and Atreus with great success. Jesse and Kaia are great folk and send regular updates on the production.<p>Why Model 100 over other split boards like the Moonlander or Ergodox? 1. Sculpted keycaps take the ortholinear split board to another level of comfort (and help recognize which keys your fingers are on). 2. It's $55 cheaper than Moonlander. 3. The palm key allows you to layers without having to move your hand. 4. Aesthetics?<p>I've been using a Model 01 for the past few years and other typing experiences can't compare. I'm waiting for a Model 100 now so I can switch to its better (MX-style) switches.<p>[1]: <a href="https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-keyboardio-model-100--4/#/" rel="nofollow">https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-keyboardio-model-100-...</a>
I'd like to make an accessory recommendation: get one of those grip-strength things and use it all the time.<p>This did two things for me:<p>1. Extra strength in hands and forearms makes you more resistant to injury of all kinds there<p>2. More importantly I think, having extra muscles in your hands and forearms gives you more proprioception feedback to help know when you're putting your hands and wrists in an uncomfortable position.<p>I've read a lot of accounts over time of people who get to full RSI injury stage without realizing their hands were in an awkward position at their desk, but I've never had that problem because my forearms are meaty enough that any odd position pulls a bit on the muscles. I can literally feel when my hands are out of position, so every time I sit at a different desk setup, or change my chair position, I push my keyboard and mouse around until they're all kinds of angled and spaced away from each other and I feel no strain. I also regularly mix up hand/elbow position throughout the day because I can feel strain happening earlier in the muscles before it becomes a problem for my tendons.<p>IANAD, YMMV, etc - but I've been typing/gaming many hours most days for almost two decades and I've yet to experience RSI (knock on wood).
There is a lot of hype on this thread about the Moonlander keyboard.<p><i>The hype is real.</i><p>The author has a neat hack, but seriously, just get yourself a split keyboard that supports the QMK firmware, customize the crap out of it, and your hands will thank you forever.
I have been using Kinesis Advantage keyboards for close to two decades now. The keyboard wells and the placement of the space, enter, delete, backspace, and modifier keys I find amazing. I haven't been able to find anything else nearly as good. So I keep using them even though they only have USB interfaces.<p>I've been using them so long I have a few lying around.
I've gotten two set up as described by ruffrey. Oh. My. God. I've been typing for less than an hour on this new setup and already my shoulders feel way better.
When I broke my clavicle, I rigged up a second keyboard that I could use with my arm in a sling: <a href="https://live-fts.flickr.com/photos/lancefisher/4293591069/in/photosof-lancefisher/" rel="nofollow">https://live-fts.flickr.com/photos/lancefisher/4293591069/in...</a><p>It worked really well! The biggest downside was that I had to use modifier keys on the same keyboard as the key I was modifying. e.g. right shift and l to get a capital L.
Split keyboards can also do this :]<p>If you've always wanted to get one of those fancy custom split keyboards (corne, iris, etc), I highly recommend <a href="https://keebmaker.com/" rel="nofollow">https://keebmaker.com/</a>. For a small price premium, you basically pick out the keyboard you want, and they'll build it for you (so you don't have to mess with soldering, etc).
I bought an Ultimate Hacking Keyboard and I absolutely love it. It has solved my primary complaint of feeling tired at the end of the day, and have been loving the custom key commands that can be sent depending on the layer of the keyboard.<p>Certain shortcuts for things like managing windows are now behind Fn + a key vs Ctrl + Option + Cmd + key.<p>While traveling I miss my keyboard, but because its not ortholinear at least it retains similar key position so switching to a different keyboard hasn't caused too many issues.
If you can afford it, a split like the ergodox or moonlander (my personal choice) is the correct answer here. I type 8+ hours a day and have zero pain. I also switched to dvorak a few years back, and consider that to help as well.
>To be able to find Home Row, I added a couple large rubber dot things.<p>Have you considered this keyboard is just bad for you? Old keyboards were a lot more ergonomic, clickly, and keys had indicators to let your fingers scan for keys. Spacebar wasn't completely flat, was either rounded upwards (not dipped like all other keys). F and J have these indicators to let you find your way on keyboard: <a href="https://cdn.mwave.com.au/images/400/AB55032_4.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://cdn.mwave.com.au/images/400/AB55032_4.jpg</a><p>>The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey<p>Was it the one with red switches? I've never heard complaints, but again... are you using that crappy laptop microphone all the time? No one ever complained on my keyboard and I don't mute myself during meetings.<p>Are you reinventing '90s keyboard?
Everyone here is talking about RSI but the author is probably talking about a shoulder impingement due to rounded shoulders. To fix this issue you need to strengthen the back, especially the infraspinatus. There's a bunch of youtube videos that can teach you how to do this. I recommend AthleanX.<p>I had this issue for years and studied the issue. Did a bunch of band exercises, worked out at the gym, and suddenly it disappeared.
Any one of the keyboards listed on <a href="https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards</a> would be better than that.
Either this person has incredibly broad shoulders or they have their arms splayed out or something. I can't imagine the 20 inches of separation available on the Kinesis Freestyle is "Not far enough apart" to "keep the shoulders in a natural, pulled-back position" for all but the most extreme outliers. I have a Kinesis keyboard and the only possible complaint I have is no numpad.
The absolute best keyboard that I've ever used was the Matias Ergo Pro, a true split keyboard with an audio jack plug connecting the two halfs, so they can be very far apart. A true mechanical (Alps) keyboard, true split, with tenting and tilting and integrated palm rests. And a real Function key row! I had two of them.<p>Why two? Because the first one didn't last a year, so they sent a replacement. That one didn't last long either. For $250 I was expecting a durable keyboard, but this isn't. Many people on Geekhack and other keyboard forums also report build quality issues with them.<p>That said, I still highly recommend this keyboard. It is comfortable enough to spend $250 every year or two on. I see it as less than half a dollar a day for a professional tool. How much do people spend on Windows and Office licenses? Not only is the layout phenomenal, with the arrow keys and Home/End/PgU/PgDown perfectly placed, but it also had very good mechanical switches.
Coincidentally, I just started using two keyboards for related but different reasons - left-hand mousing. I started developing tendonitis in my right thumb from mousing. Didn't matter whether mouse, pad, or ball - everything wore on it. So, I learned to mouse with my left hand, but this presented another problem - keyboard shortcuts. I found it was difficult to keep reaching over to my left side with my right hand, where most of the common keyboard shortcuts reside. I used to use my left hand for those, but moving between mouse and keyboard is also difficult. My solution was to set up a half-keyboard (aka gaming keyboard) to the right to my main keyboard. Now all my common shortcuts are easily accessible to my right hand, and it only took a few days to get used to (<i>much</i> less time than left hand mousing). It's working well so far.
Once you try the 21" separation Kinesis freestyle you won't go back (assuming you know how to touch-type). Being able to keep your arms at shoulder length apart releases a lot of tension you'd otherwise have by brining your arms literally together to type.<p>That being said, the keyboard is hardly perfect.
I also use two Apple Magic Keyboards, though angled in rather than out. I have tried various keyboards, including ones with cherry, and I own a split Kinesis for Mac. They all have the same problem: when I am away from my desk (or country) I need to use the laptop keyboard. So I have two magic keyboards, or I have one. Has to be the magic keyboard, not the big one with the numpad, because that one has the modifiers and cursor keys in different locations (no Fn for example).<p>It's not for everyone, but I wish everyone else would leave off the "Oh thats so bad for you", "Oh your life will be changed by a Cherry whatever". It's not and it wasn't. Feel free to share positive outcomes, but don't insist your solution will work for everyone.
I got severe wrist pain in my right wrist after a year of using a regular keyboard and mouse.<p>After several changes, I got a microsoft ergonomic keyboard [1] and a logitech mx ergo advanced trackball, and I've been pain free since then.<p>The trackball helped a lot since I don't need to move my wrist, just my thumb.<p>[1] <a href="https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/microsoft-ergonomic-keyboard/93841ngdwr1h" rel="nofollow">https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/d/microsoft-ergonomic-keyboa...</a><p>[2] <a href="https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-ergo-wireless-trackball-mouse.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-ergo-wireles...</a>
Honestly, switching to a more natural layout like Dvorak is probably one of the best things you can do for wrist pain. I don't think there have been any studies on it yet, but anecdotally it's great. Many people report likewise.<p>It's not easy to switch but imo it's well worth the time to optimize one of the primary interfaces with which you will interact with the world for decades to come.<p>It's so bizarre to me that we are all stuck on a horribly unoptimized interface and we continue to teach our children how to use it, when much-better performing alternatives are easily available.
...just get a split keyboard (the Kinesis isn't a true split - still one body). It's cheaper. You don't have extraneous keys. You don't have to worry about using software to get your computer to play nice with two keyboards. I like the offerings from <a href="https://gboards.ca" rel="nofollow">https://gboards.ca</a>, personally (bonus, they're ortholinear if you believe that is good for reducing pain).<p>I got the Gergoplex from that site, and over the course of a week of typing I got used to it and was able to be productive with it.<p>Just get a split.
I've thinking about trying this for a very long time, but never did so. My keyboard "mechanical switch" of choice is Trope. To me there isn't a single other switch that comes even close (and I've got lots of keyboards). And among the Topre keyboards, my favorite is the HHKB Pro JP (japanese layout)... But it's not split (I don't care if it's two parts or one part: to me "split" means both halves are at an angle).<p>So I've been thinking about using not one but two HHKB Pro JP, as in TFA. I should really just try it.
These split and ortholinear keyboards all seem to be compensating for the fact that we are taught to type keys on the left hand bottom row with the wrong finger.<p>The "Q-A-Z" slope goes completely against the natural angle of your left finger curl. Same for every finger on your left hand.<p>The right hand gets things <i>right</i> with "U-J-M" etc. Nice finger curl with your hand in a natural position.<p>On normal keyboards we should be teaching and typing the "W-S-Z" (or even "E-S-Z") column with your left ring finger, not the completely perpendicular "W-S-X".
My biggest problem is to find keyboards that would have all 3 modifiers on BOTH sides.<p>I use a Mac for work which means in most (split/ergo/tenkeyless) keyboards (depending on the settings applicable) either Ctrl or Alt/Opt is missing from the right side, because e.g. an Fn key or a squeezed-in left arrow is taking their place. I need all 3 modifiers constantly (Ctrl+C in Terminal, enter special characters, use app shortcuts, jump between windows/tabs...)
I did exactly this - even down to using Apple Magic keyboards, because I happened to have two of them.<p>The only difference was that I had the keyboards angled ‘out’ rather than in, propped up at their front and middles, so that my wrists were higher than my fingers and thumbs higher than my other fingers, if that makes sense.<p>Eventually I moved on from this to a single keyboard specifically designed to support this sort of setup, but two small keyboards was a great start!
I have been doing exactly this for a year now. It allows my shoulders to be open, stopping me from slouching over the keyboard. It has solved my back pain.
> If you’re adult-sized, it’s nearly impossible the keep the shoulders in a natural, pulled-back position while typing on a keyboard.<p>I have to disagree with this.. I'm 6'1 and had bad posture for most of my life. I had the same issues with pain that you describe. But recently I've put a lot of work into it having better posture and I don't have any problems anymore. You just need the right desk/chair height and sit up straight without resting your back on the backrest.<p>Something like this is really helpful: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Posture-Corrector-Men-Women-Truweo/dp/B07DKHTKP3" rel="nofollow">https://www.amazon.com/Posture-Corrector-Men-Women-Truweo/dp...</a><p>If you've never put effort into having good posture then you probably don't have the muscles that you need. Doing yoga, or any kind of core exercise, is also really helpful. I can't tell you enough how much better I feel having built up some real core strength. I used to hurt my back all the time but that never happens anymore!<p>Just my $.02 :)
I was a bit surprised by the solution in the article and then again when I saw a load of supporting comments. I have really debilitating pain in my hands and wrists and as far as I can tell, it started with the first MBP I had using chiclet keys. To this day, I can't type on a modern Apple keyboard without my pain flaring up (although the later 2019 model was a big improvement for me).<p>Add on the sharp edge of the laptop right where a wrist might sit and the thing was an ergonomic nightmare for me. For quite some time, I typed by using two pens to peck at the keys. I then spent years on a dictation-based solution to writing code (<a href="https://github.com/dictation-toolbox" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/dictation-toolbox</a>). I really thought I was going to have to pursue a new career. Fortunately, I tried a friend's Kinesis Advantage and found that helped alleviate the symptoms. It's hard to convey how much relief I felt. I was skeptical of the Kinesis since it seemed gimmicky and because I had no success with other ergonomic keyboards, but it works for me. It's not pain-free, but it's livable. As a secondary benefit, it can flip to sending Dvorak keypresses. I used to do that at the OS level, but it wouldn't work in some programs and it was really annoying for anyone I might pair program with.<p>The low key travel distance on modern laptops is a killer for me. I don't think I type particularly aggressively, but I did originally learn to type on an Apple IIs. I've found with most chiclet keys that pressing the key bottoms out before my fingers expect and I end up jamming them. I have a work-issued MBP now and it's mostly workable because I can type on an external keyboard at home, but I dread having to travel with this thing. For my personal laptop, I ended up with Lenovo just because it had the best travel distance I could find. It's still a chiclet keyboard though and not nearly as comfortable as older laptops.<p>I really miss the old AlBook MBP keyboard. That was the last laptop I could comfortably use. Apple's equipment is still incredibly popular, so I appreciate that their ergonomics are not problematic for many people. I just never would have thought that an Apple keyboard would have improved RSI symptoms. I'm happy the author found a solution and shared it. Typing in pain is not a pleasant experience and being able to address it for the cost of two keyboards is much cheaper than heading down the medical path.
I had rsi as well, so bad I couldn't shake anyone's hand. I thought my wrist was broken. What fixed it for me was to drop the keyboard down onto my lap using a laptop desk, or "lapdesk." I believe my pain was from resting my wrists or forearms on the desk or chair armrests...So I also removed the chair armrests. Also, removing the distance from keyboard to mouse by utilizing a tablet keyboard w/o a numeric keypad. Using the i3 window manager in Linux was great, and I need to do better at using vimium in the browser to reduce mouse usage.
It took me forever to find the lapdesk thing out, and there is research behind the ergonomics:
<a href="http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ergoguide.html" rel="nofollow">http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/ergoguide.html</a><p><a href="http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/AHTutorials/typingposture.html" rel="nofollow">http://ergo.human.cornell.edu/AHTutorials/typingposture.html</a><p>In my opionion, it's worth a good read-through.
I will second this and say split keyboard has largely solved the neck and shoulder pain I’ve had for years. I still get it sometimes but it’s very rare, whereas it was very frequent before I converted to split keyboard.<p>For ease of adjustment I found the Matías Ergo Pro keyboard to be very good.<p>Before that I tried the Kinesis Freestyle and didn’t like it as much.<p>Recently I’ve been using a Dygma Raise with Cherry MX Brown switches, and I’m enjoying it as it’s nearly as familiar as the Matías but smaller. I greatly miss the arrow keys though.<p>I have to say this two keyboard hack is pretty clever. What I <i>wish</i> I could buy is almost exactly this: a Mac laptop keyboard split in half. I wouldn’t argue that it has better typing feel etc compared to mechanicals, but I do still work on my laptop some and while I’ve gotten to where I can switch back and forth without being too badly impacted, I still make a lot more mistakes compared to when I exclusively typed on my laptop or other Apple keyboard.
I do this with two mice (well, one mouse and a trackpad).<p>I had pretty bad repetitive strain in my right wrist. I realized it kicks in after using the mouse for too long. So now when I feel my right wrist start to complain (every few minutes) I just switch to the trackpad with my left hand.<p>It also helps a ton to just learn keyboard shortcuts for everything.
It's not about the keyboard. It's about the lack of a strength building regime. Humans are not built to sit behind a desk. A strength training regime like Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5 is what the average office worker needs to survive their career RSI free into old age
The split wireless keyboard from FalbaTech <i>dramatically</i> decreased back pain, headaches, and migraines. My keyboards are kept at a minimum 50cm apart, and I can move them freely depending on comfort (because they are split AND wireless!). Highly recommend them!
Trying this out right now with a keyboard and laptop and I'm immediately a fan! I'm pleasantly surprised that Shift works across keyboards.<p>I really dislike keyboard key layouts, that is the physical staggered location of the keys always feels cramped and inconvenient when our fingers naturally want to splay out. I also am pretty comfortable reaching across the keyboard, or typing one handed, even though I like to stick to the home row. Using two keyboards I notice how much more natural it is to reach across and use the 'wrong' hand for certain keys. But mostly my experience is just what the author said: The relief was almost instant. This feels like the way I'm supposed to have been typing all along.
This is really similar to the Kinesis freestyle keyboard. <a href="https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/" rel="nofollow">https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/</a> I really like it.
I don't game but I've found Kinesis split keyboard (<a href="https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/edge/" rel="nofollow">https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/edge/</a>) + vertical mouse cured my wrist/forearm pain. That plus a desk at 27" instead of a "normal" 32" are one time ergonomic expenses that are absolute no-brainers for programmers.<p>It took a lot of trial and error to find the setup that worked for me. I think the above is the right 80/20 solution. Worth a shot and hope it ends up helping someone. FWIW, the Kinesis keyboard has a nice tilt that corresponds with the vertical mouse tilt.
The author dismisses clicky keyboards as "too loud for screen shares", but I'm not sure that's a problem with a good mic. You get truly impressive noise reduction. <a href="https://www.benkuhn.net/vc/" rel="nofollow">https://www.benkuhn.net/vc/</a>. My own experience is that with even a decent mic, I never used mute, and could do things like calls while my son watched TV in the next room (not separated by a door, but by a wide open entryway). My coworkers testimony made me clear that while it was distracting for me, they weren't hearing the noise.
The Advantage 2 can be modified to be a split keyboard. Take a look inside, it's pretty simple. [0] Just need some longer cables and add extra supports to the case right? It appears at least one person has accomplished this. [1]<p>[0]: <a href="http://www.abarry.org/likelytobeforgotten/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/2013-02-08-13.04.24.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.abarry.org/likelytobeforgotten/wp-content/uploads...</a><p>[1]: <a href="https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=16112.0" rel="nofollow">https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=16112.0</a>
I made the jump from dual keyboards to a Kinesis Freestyle (2) almost a decade ago. Honestly sometimes I think about going back.<p>I had dual MS Sculpt keyboards for a while, & loved the curve. It's easier to spread the keyboards out far wider than with the pretty short cable Kinesis keyboards usually come with (some keyboards have an XL option). Also Kinesis seems allergic to build a regular-plain-old function-key row, and it seriously hampers usability, even after years of use on this keyboard.<p>The best part is definitely being in an office, and people thinking I was working on multiple things at once.
Do people really sit there all day with their fingers on the home rows?<p>I find most of my workday I am thinking, reading, using the mouse etc. Actually typing comes in relatively short bursts.<p>Maybe you're all much harder workers than me :)
Since going to a sculpt, regular keyboards are just upsetting. I love almost everything about it, especially how I can position my shoulders. It feels familiar for a mac user, ironically, because of the chicklet keys, and only took a day to get used to. I'd love to try others that are identical in shape, but maybe different in tact or texture. The Surface Keyboard is too big and too expensive for my taste. $170 vs $80.<p>I like this person's idea, though of course it's very demanding in terms of space and $$. Whatever gets rid of the pain and helps your posture.
Don't forget about exercise and/or physical therapy.<p>My tendons have been trashed by a medication(cipro) and I had some awful lows when my body was hurting, including my fingers.<p>The only thing I have found helpful was exercise and physical therapy. I have been doing PT for over a year now with a professional. I also won't code 8-10 hours a day. I want to program for a long time, so I prefer jobs with a room to think instead of cranking out code non-stop.<p>I did also use some supplements that were found to help with the damage in studies, but not sure if any were helpful.
If you're not exercising regularly and you have pain triggered by programming you should give exercise a chance. It has worked wonderfully for me. In my case just running 5k every week has done the trick. Pain went away magically and never came back. I have no idea how running can prevent what seems to be unrelated pain but I swear it worked for me. I now use the most basic keyboard and mouse and I'm fine. I don't know if it will work for you but it's worth trying.
Hey. I do this! I should have done this years ago instead of trying to deal with English language keyboards or those few ergo boards that do support Nordic/Swedish/Finnish layout.<p>It is not about learning the different layouts. There’s just not enough keys here, unless I start switching layouts based on writing language. So much money gone, especially to get the more esoteric pieces shipped here.<p>I am contemplating adding shortcuts to unused halfs of the keyboards.
Wasn't on HN, not so long time ago, maybe couple of months, how to create a mechanical keyboard from a Raspberry Pi? I think the author of this article could've benefit from that one. Could've created his custom keyboard, without any additional software to link two separate keyboards in one, could've made it as wide or as split he wanted and with as many programmable keys (if he'd want) as needed.
I quite like the split style, so I made a split keyboard for me:<p><a href="https://imgz.org/i6HG7FUf/" rel="nofollow">https://imgz.org/i6HG7FUf/</a><p>I love it, it works extremely well and is exactly suited to my hands. I should finish writing up the process one of these days.<p>I certainly recommend getting a split keyboard (maybe BT?) if you want to try this approach, though two cheap keyboards might be cheaper than one good split one.
They're out of style, but keyboard trays that extend out from the desk let you get the keyboard lower and closer to you for better shoulder and arm positioning. You don't need a split unless you're zombie-arm reaching for a keyboard far away on top of your desk.<p>Personally, my arms are very long so I actually type with my keyboards directly on my lap. My upper arms hang straight down, my shoulders completely neutral.
Has pain from using keyboard.
Uses apple non-mechanical keyboard...<p>Try a mechanical keyboard. Gateron or Cherry brown is my choice, silent and very comfortable.
I used to do this before with two wireless Logitech K400rs, to ease my wrist pain.<p>I really like their compactness, built in touchpad and volume controls etc), but was not happy with the fact that i could not keep them too close to each other, and that fn-key combinations would not work across the two keyboards (on k400 the fn keys are key (pun intended) to getting to the function keys)
The only time I have any beginnings of repetitive stress type issues is if I have to use laptop keyboards or somebody else's mouse.<p>I have full-sized or oversized IBM-style mechanical keyboards and the largest mouse that I could find on the market. It's not like I have the most enormous hands, but I can't deal with being cramped up on a little 14 inch laptop keyboard.
I think this is actually going to be a game changer for me. I got a keychron k6 and it's almost perfect (I only don't like having to press a function key to type a backtick).<p>Plus it was CHEAP for a mechanical keyboard. I can easily purchase a second one. And it's clear from just spreading my shoulders that this will have a big impact on my shoulder pain.<p>Thanks for sharing!
I've switched to vim for pain relief. I use vim or vim mode in the IDE (almost any IDE supports it now, I usually use IdeaVIM).<p>Also replaced mouse with a trackball.<p>Using vim means I almost never required to press two keys at once (Alt-something, Ctrl-something). Trackball doesn't cause the same amount of strain as trying to grab a tiny mouse.<p>I use this setup for about 11 years - no more pain.
An extra benefit of doing this is that both hands still have access to the full key set. It would be useful to re-assign the extra keys to other functions, but this seems non-trivial to do cross platform in software. Would be a nice project to make a little hardware box to combine two keyboards into one, with a little OLED screen for setting shortcuts.
Odd, I guess this might only work if you have the proper typing form? I never learned to type "properly". I think over-time by brain memorized the key layout. I can type around 70-80WPM, but my typing my mostly index finger based.<p>I tried moving my laptop the side, and using one-hand, but my fingers wanted to reach across the entire keyboard.
> The CherryMX Kinesis split keyboard was is too clickey for calls and screenshares.<p>I use Cherry Blues on all my kb's at home, and at least Google Meet does a stellar job at filtering out that noise; I've even asked people while I'm typing if they can hear me typing; none have answered in the positive so far.
An alternative to the rubber nubs is a drop of clear nail polish. I started using it on dvorak rearranged keyboards. Not sure what is best, but I got some UV curing type. A bit of alcohol removes the residue after curing, and you get a small smooth bump.
Funny ... I did the exact same thing some years ago. Two cheap Dell OEM keyboards, roughly 60 degrees apart on a concave, L-shaped desk.<p>I found that doing that opened up my chest, instantly making me breath easier. Also it's basically impossible to slough over.
Kinesis Advantage 2.<p>Hard learning curve, macros, endless customization and no pain.
The idea of using Apple keyboards without wrist support is temporary hack.<p>I have changed countless mechanical and ergonomic keyboards with no success. The concept of using your thumbs for most repetitive combinations is just astonishingly effective.<p>As a side effect I remapped left super to control and right supper to meta on all my laptops, caps lock is escape.<p>But nothing can compare to comfort and speed that I can reach on Kinesis Advantage.<p>The key to success with this keyboard is to remap it by your standards and wishes, I have seen many people complain about using your thumbs or arrow keys, square brackets.<p>The power of this keyboard besides ergonomic design is in a remapping functionality and complementary software.<p>Rarely nowadays I can say that some product or service is changing my life drastically for good. But Advantage is one of those life changing products.
I use two mice - one on each side - for the same reason.<p>My body switches between them without even thinking about it, and anecdotally I'd say the relief better than halved the "wear and tear" on each appendage.
Isn't one supposed to have the mouse in between the split keyboard for ergonomic reasons? Setting keyboard parts far from each other seems to be the direct opposite. Which setting should it be?
Hah, I'm used to home-row-finding bumps being <i>subtle</i> (which goes back to Actual Typewriters) but there's no reason they can't be half the size of the keycap :-)
Or just use a split keyboard, there are some dozen available nowadays: <a href="https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/diimdeep/awesome-split-keyboards</a><p>Personally, I'm using a Dygma Raise, after testing the Ergodox for a while. And the Dygma is really mostly perfect IMHO. I would prefer it to have an ortholinear layout, and an additional row with F-Keys (layers can be cumbersome when hands are not at homerow-position). But the build-quality and sane Thumb-cluster really makes it for me.<p>Though the argument about loudness of mechanical keys is understandable. But this can be solved with a proper audio-setup. Just look at all the streamers with their silent gaming-keyboards.
this seems a bit extreme. why not just buy a split keyboard?<p><a href="https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/" rel="nofollow">https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/product/freestyle-edge/</a><p>I've had this for about a year and I'm quite happy with it.<p>i tend to bottom out a lot though, so i installed o-rings to make it a bit easier on my fingers. def worth the trouble though.
I noticed when I started to exercise more seriously few years ago, all the pain from working 8h+ in front of a PC magically disappeared.
But I think the key isn't just do the exercises for a good posture. Just commit to something a little more ( gym, tai chi, whatever you want ) and your body automagically will handle better the "bad habits".<p>TLDR: I noticed a lot of difference between just doing postural work and a fully committed "sport".
Based on my own experience, I don't think any of this is necessary.<p>Context: Back about twenty years ago; startup; spending 18 hours a day, 7 days a week for about 2 years almost full time in front of the computer coding, electronics design, 3D CAD, etc.<p>I developed pain and soreness on both wrists. Inflammation too. They were warm to the touch. I resorted to things like coding with ice packs on my wrists. It sucked.<p>I also had context from work in another industry where I knew people who had surgery on their wrists due to the pain and inflammation. Not fun at all. And, no, it did not solve the problem.<p>Other than repetitive motion, the root cause is bad ergonomics. Splitting the keyboard or using two keyboards does not solve the problem.<p>You need four things:<p>1- A low actuation effort keyboard<p>2- A trackball --mice are horrible, they require far more motion and effort than the task demands<p>3- A good adjustable chair (Aeron is what I use) with adjustable arm rests<p>4- An ergonomic desk, not an office desk<p>#4 is where I went to work and designed my own [0] [1]. The other factors are somewhat subjective and require you to experiment until you find what you like.<p>The effect was almost instantaneous. You setup your chair to match the arm rest height to that of the wrist support bar on the desk. And you relax. You have to learn to relax. You hand naturally droops into the cavity where the keyboard and trackball are. The objective is minimal to no attitude (orientation) support tension on the upper tendons. When you eliminate this tension, the problem is gone.<p>The trackball makes it so you don't have to move all over the place to use the GUI. This is particularly true of a multimonitor or large monitor setup. Sorry to say this --because I know there are people who like them-- mice are horrible. The same is true of touch pads. Great for low cost integration into thin laptops, horrible for ergonomics. I use a trackball on my laptops as well.<p>If this worked for me (18 hours/day, 7 days a week, 2 years) it has to work for anyone doing less than that.<p>Normal office desks are horrible. They are a relic of the days when people wrote on paper by hand. A modern ergonomic desk designed for extended work on computers cannot have a single flat surface at 29 inches (74 cm) of height. That's ridiculous. The ergonomics of using a keyboard and mouse/trackball on such a surface are 100% wrong.<p>Measure the height from your elbow to the floor while relaxed on your chair. Femur bone should be horizontal, feet comfortably touching the ground, spine is comfortably vertical (not slouching), shoulders relaxed, forearm bent at 90 degrees (horizontal). Is that 29 inches? Nope. It's probably in the 25 to 26 inch range (63.5 to 66 cm). Guess the height of the keyboard shelf on my custom desk? The wrist support bar is about 1.5 inches (4 cm) high, sanded to about 600 grit and stained with Tung oil. It's reasonably friction free, not sticky or perspiration-inducing. The edges are rounded to, if I remember correctly, a 1/2 inch (1.3 cm) radius).<p>[0] <a href="https://i.imgur.com/S8gOPh7.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://i.imgur.com/S8gOPh7.jpg</a>
[1] <a href="https://i.imgur.com/PoKDNOk.jpg" rel="nofollow">https://i.imgur.com/PoKDNOk.jpg</a>
Back when I had wrist pain the only thing that worked for me was mousing with a different hand, and using a split Goldtouch keyboard (not a fan of the key feel, but ergonomically it worked well for me). Then I got into weightlifting and I don't have wrist pain anymore and can use whatever keyboard or mouse I want. Not saying this works for everyone, obviously, but give it a try as well. It also works wonders for lower back pain, and just in general makes you feel better.