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Investigators say they've finally identified the Zodiac Killer

326 pointsby afrcncover 3 years ago

37 comments

aquovaover 3 years ago
So two new pieces of evidence are offered up by this article, firstly that Zodiac was identified by several witnesses as having a forehead scar, including being drawn on the famous sketch of him, which matches a scar Poste had at the time. Secondly, some sort of new solution to the cipher is possible by omitting Poste&#x27;s full name in some way.<p>As exciting as it would be, I always take these claims about famous cases being solved with a grain of salt. It seems they were also denied DNA evidence from another California case, and bringing up excitement about Zodiac might let them press the issue further. The scar I don&#x27;t think is definitive proof by any means, but if there is some new explanation to one of the ciphers, I would be very interested in seeing it.
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mauzover 3 years ago
Looking at the press release [1], it still feels relatively circumstantial to me. Not sure that we can deem the Zodiac Killer to be fully identified yet.<p>It&#x27;s definitely not nearly as cut and dry as when they identified the Golden State killer.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;secureservercdn.net&#x2F;166.62.114.250&#x2F;g9q.07b.myftpupload.com&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2021&#x2F;09&#x2F;Zodiac-Killer-Press-release-1-1.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;secureservercdn.net&#x2F;166.62.114.250&#x2F;g9q.07b.myftpuplo...</a>
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jgrahamcover 3 years ago
<i>Other clues include deciphering letters sent by the Zodiac that revealed him as the killer, said Jen Bucholtz, a former Army counterintelligence agent who works on cold cases. In one note, the letters of Poste&#x27;s full name were removed to reveal an alternate message, she told Fox News.<p>&quot;So you&#x27;ve got to know Gary&#x27;s full name in order to decipher these anagrams,&quot; Bucholtz said. &quot;I just don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s any other way anybody would have figured it out.&quot;</i><p>I&#x27;d love to see that evidence.
Ansil849over 3 years ago
I feel like at least twice a year, there is some story like &quot;Zodiac Killer Finally Identified&quot; or &quot;DB Cooper Finally Found&quot;. And behind these stories is usually just one person or group of people who are presenting their pet theory (which highlighted all facts supporting it, and conveniently brushes aside all facts which don&#x27;t) and have savy media contacts so are able to get media exposure to help promote what&#x27;s frequently accompanied by a book they are trying to sell copies of.<p>I don&#x27;t know if that&#x27;s the case here, but this pattern of events has made me just tune out stories like this. I wish media outlets would be more critical.
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paxysover 3 years ago
The &quot;investigators&quot; mentioned are The Case Breakers, described (on their website) as &quot;The elite team that&#x27;s solving our greatest mysteries&quot;. No mention of their actual credentials or accomplishments.
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irrationalover 3 years ago
Oh good, Ted &quot;Cancun&quot; Cruz will finally be put into prison.<p>In all seriousness, my daughter in college was in a psychology class where they were talking about serial killers. The Zodiac killer came up and a guy in the class said, in all seriousness, &quot;Isn&#x27;t Ted Cruz the Zodiac killer?&quot;
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jfrunyonover 3 years ago
I don&#x27;t know enough about the Zodiac Killer to determine whether or not this is true. But I do know that when the only $search_engine results to something are from one media network (a few Fox local &amp; Fox News), and a tabloid... take it with a grain of salt.
khazhouxover 3 years ago
This is great news.<p>Even if we&#x27;ve heard similar announcements before.<p>Definitely good to have closure.<p>Closure not just for the family.<p>Really, for everyone who has followed this.<p>Unmasked soon, I hope, and finally...<p>Zodiac Killer will be revealed.
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pengaruover 3 years ago
For anyone disinterested in giving any FOX site clicks, here&#x27;s an alternative source:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;crime&#x2F;article&#x2F;Investigators-claim-this-man-is-Zodiac-Killer-16513837.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;crime&#x2F;article&#x2F;Investigators-claim-thi...</a>
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johncessnaover 3 years ago
Weird, I just finished watching Veritasium&#x27;s [1] latest video which featured the techniques for finding the Golden State Killer, and saw this one come across the feed.<p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KT18KJouHWg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=KT18KJouHWg</a>
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purple_ferretover 3 years ago
A quick google doesn&#x27;t show this guy on lists of common suspects.<p>Where did he come from and what is supposed to be his motive?
cf100clunkover 3 years ago
Loads of prior HN discussions on the solving of his cipher:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=false&amp;query=zodiac%20cipher&amp;sort=byPopularity&amp;type=story" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?dateRange=all&amp;page=0&amp;prefix=false&amp;qu...</a>
oh_sighover 3 years ago
What are the ethics of potentially identifying deceased people as baddies? Unless there is DNA evidence which remains(which I doubt), or they find incontrovertible evidence in his home or something like that(I also doubt), this is just a guess that will drastically affect his probably otherwise-normal family whether the allegations are true or not.
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swayvilover 3 years ago
&quot;Investigators&quot; is one of those utterly ambiguous yet powerfully dominating terms, like &quot;Authorities&quot; and &quot;Scientists&quot;.<p>We build our epistemological hierarchies like it&#x27;s 2000 BC. (Heck, like 2Billion BC, if you think of knowledge as a kind of termite-mound. Memes are the new pheromones). Fancy cellphones make no diff.
caymanjimover 3 years ago
Is anyone familiar with Robert Graysmith&#x27;s books on the Zodiac Killer? The Fincher film &quot;Zodiac&quot; is based on Graysmith&#x27;s research&#x2F;obsession. I don&#x27;t think the film mentions anyone named Poste at all. I&#x27;m wondering if he ever came across Graysmith&#x27;s radar.
Bayartover 3 years ago
David Oranchak&#x27;s video last on his, Sam Blake&#x27;s and Jarl Van Eycke&#x27;s cracking of Cipher Z-340 last year : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-1oQLPRE21o</a>
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spoonjimover 3 years ago
I&#x27;ll need some more evidence to believe it. They&#x27;re strongly citing the &quot;scars&quot; on his forehead which, to my eye, look a lot like the wrinkles on anyone&#x27;s forehead.
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panzaglover 3 years ago
And makers of true crime podcasts everywhere rejoiced...
dmos62over 3 years ago
I read the linked article <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foxnews.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;cold-case-zodiac-killer-identified-murder" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foxnews.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;cold-case-zodiac-killer-identifie...</a>. It&#x27;s just so bad. If they have actual evidence, they haven&#x27;t presented it on Fox News.
anigbrowlover 3 years ago
Finally identifying the Zodiac killer is something of an approximately annual ritual by now<p>See also: Voynich manuscript secrets finally revealed, who was DB Cooper, etc. etc.<p>Mainstream journalists love these articles because it&#x27;s a way to recycle an old story while only adding 1 or 2 details and a quote, knowing devotees will jump on and amplify it.
ncmncmover 3 years ago
Now that we have <i>maybe</i> identified somebody who killed, what, 37 people?, let&#x27;s start identifying individuals responsible for <i>millions</i> of more horrendous deaths, often drawn out over months of suffering, and maybe try to stop them.<p>The guys who first put lead in gasoline are long dead already. There were people who fought getting it out of the gasoline, and they are mostly dead, by now, too. Likewise, leaded paint. That was banned in 1978. Thousands of people are still being killed by paint exposure, though, many indirectly by violent tendencies induced by lead paint exposure, which people still experience, by the millions, every day.<p>Lots of people fought tooth and nail to keep people in doubt about tobacco smoke causing lung cancer. They are mostly dead. The top academic in statistics was one of those, and was personally responsible for decades of denial that observational study could determine causation, fetishizing random-controlled trials, RCTs. (RCTs are great, but anybody who insists that <i>only</i> RCTs can demonstrate causation is a fetishist.) He&#x27;s dead too, but his legacy lives on, still killing people <i>en mass</i>.<p>The people who started hydrogenating vegetable oils, starting with waste cottonseed oil, are long dead. But trans fats, produced by hydrogenation, were only (technically) banned from the US diet in 2017. That was an outcome of Fred Kummerow&#x27;s entire career: he knew in the &#x27;50s that trans fats were poison, and worked for decades to get them banned. He died in 2016. I say &quot;technically&quot; because certain corporations have special dispensation to continue poisoning people. Maybe, catch them? Maybe, catch whoever fought the 2017 ban, who had poisoned people for many decades before, and sought to continue? They are mostly still alive.<p>The biggest public health problem in the US today, killing way more than COVID-19, comes from (being precise!) consumption of fructose without adequate accompanying fiber. The sodas, Coke&#x2F;Pepsi the biggest, but also juice, apple, orange, cranberry, Red Bull, Monster, are worst. But sugar, which is half fructose, is added to <i>practically everything</i> nowadays, not just breakfast cereal. Almost the whole food industry is devoted to stripping out fiber and selling the rest; when &quot;the rest&quot; has, or gets added, sugar, it becomes slow poison. (Robert Lustig videos on Youtube are a great way to start learning about this. He has books out, too. Lustig is an endocrinologist, the smartest kind of medical doctor.)<p>One of the reasons sugar is added to everything is that we were told for decades that saturated fat was bad for us. (Another is that sugar production is <i>massively</i> subsidized, so is the cheapest ingredient.) All the stuff blamed on sat fat turns out to be caused, instead, by the trans fats and sugar. The saturated fat is not only totally harmless, it is important for brain function, so its loss compounds the problem.<p>Thus, the people taking fiber out of and putting sugar into everything are the biggest <i>current</i> mass killers. Likewise, everybody maintaining sugar production subsidies. Stringing them up may be an over-reaction. Anyway <i>stopping them</i> seems like a good idea. At least, require fructose-content and fructose vs. fiber labeling? Think about them next time the news is full of somebody killing a dozen people. Is a dozen bad, but millions <i>A-OK</i>?
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nsonhaover 3 years ago
Should we ban media coverage and making movies, books etc about this kind of thing? I don&#x27;t think it helps improving public awareness as much as it gives these psychopaths the idea that what they do is cool.
lbrinerover 3 years ago
40 people to solve an old case that people already suspected was carried out by someone who has now died doesn&#x27;t seem like a judicious use of time and money, unless they did it for free.<p>Los Angeles has an entire warehouse of unsolved cases, wouldn&#x27;t it be nice for those people to provide bits of insight into those cases instead?
SubiculumCodeover 3 years ago
I wonder if neuroscience will ever come up with a treatment for serial killers that would cure them of their murderous obsessions.<p>I believe some serial killers are constantly thinking about murder, while others might have two sides to their personalities that avoid thinking about the other, like a switch.
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iouover 3 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfchronicle.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;article&#x2F;Zodiac-Killer-case-solved-Case-Breakers-16514228.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfchronicle.com&#x2F;bayarea&#x2F;article&#x2F;Zodiac-Killer-ca...</a>
aerovistaeover 3 years ago
This seems super dubious. I just watched the 2007 film Zodiac this week so it&#x27;s recently on my mind. The prime suspect, Arthur Leigh Allen, has so much incriminating evidence against him that it&#x27;s just nuts to me that anyone considers this anything but a solved case.<p>Seriously, just read this:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zodiackiller.fandom.com&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Arthur_Leigh_Allen#Incriminating_Evidence" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zodiackiller.fandom.com&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Arthur_Leigh_Allen#Incr...</a><p>Most importantly of the list, a guy he shot who lived picked him out of a set of photos and said he was certain that was the man who shot him.<p>Like....how can you go through that list and come to any other conclusion? It seems very clear that it was just procedural error by the police that let him get away with it back then. When investigators contacted him anew in 1992, he suddenly died of heart failure before they could interview him.
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gandalfianover 3 years ago
So no one from the film.
m3kw9over 3 years ago
“ the Zodiac Killer as Gary Francis Poste, who passed away in 2018.”. He barely got away it seems if true.
poundtownover 3 years ago
bit unsettling hearing about his posse.
spoonjimover 3 years ago
I cannot even fathom the evil required to kill a real life human being just for a sick moment of &quot;fun&quot; or whatever it is. I&#x27;m almost hoping that they&#x27;ve got the wrong guy and that the real one is alive so they can catch him and execute him.
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ForTheTimeBeingover 3 years ago
The likeness of the shape &amp; angling of their brows is striking.
julienchastangover 3 years ago
How about using this same forensic team to determine the true identity of Satoshi Nakamoto :-)
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sfblahover 3 years ago
Well that&#x27;s a relief. Now they can arrest and prosecute him!
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amatechaover 3 years ago
&quot;For the full story, and more evidence from the Case Breakers, visit&quot;[0]<p>Can we update the link to just go to the full story rather than the summarized version? (sorry, I know it&#x27;s kinda &quot;offtopic&quot; but that just bugged me starting to read and just being redirected to another site)<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foxnews.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;cold-case-zodiac-killer-identified-murder" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.foxnews.com&#x2F;us&#x2F;cold-case-zodiac-killer-identifie...</a>
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gumbyover 3 years ago
This case didn’t only inspire documentaries but also inspired the song “Dire Wolf” by the Grateful Dead.
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darepublicover 3 years ago
Time for another zodiac movie, this time including the subsequent murders and the eventual posthumous uncovering of the murderer. No matter how convincing the evidence it&#x27;s just not satisfactory that the guy can&#x27;t be tried.
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ljmover 3 years ago
I imagine the Zodiac Killer was actually more than one person.<p>Of course, this was back in the time when creating attractive codewords for dangerous criminals was the norm.<p>Who&#x27;s to say that the coded messages sent to newspapers weren&#x27;t actually meant for other people involved in the activity?
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