All: to read all 1300 comments in this thread, click More at the bottom of the page, or like this:<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=2" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=2</a><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=3" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=3</a><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=4" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383&p=4</a><p>(Comments like this will eventually go away - sorry for the annoyance.)
HDMI, SD Card, and MagSafe. Things people on the internet inclusive but not limited to HN said they will never come back because the future is USB-C.<p>Now I just want to know if the new keyboard has more key travel distance back to the like of MacBook Pro 2015.<p>In case anyone wants to know the thickness difference.<p>MacBook Pro 13" 2015 - 1.8 cm<p>MacBook Pro 13" 2016 - 1.49 / 1.55 cm<p>MacBook Pro 14" / 16" 2021 - 1.55 / 1.66cm<p>So basically even the new 16" is still thinner than the MacBook 2015 era. Which I think vast majority of people were happy with.<p>Edit: Both 14" and 16" have 254 PPI, up from ~220. Apple tends to stick with same PPI for a very long time. So this is interesting. 3456-by-2234 or 3024-by-1964 is 14:9 Ratio. So somewhere in between the old 16:10 and 3:2 which is current trend of Lenovo and Surface Laptop.
These look positively <i>insane</i>. 120Hz HDR displays. Can be specced with up to 64 GB of RAM and a GPU that (apparently) matches a 3070. All the ports you could ever want <i>and</i> magsafe. I can't wait to get my hands on one.<p>The notch doesn't bother me because it's literally more room on the screen. Laptops with the camera below the screen tend to have an uncomfortable angle that look sup your nose, and the design suggests that they may be adding Face ID in a future iteration.
Wow looks like Apple has abandoned every bad decision on the MBP for the past 5 years in one swoop. No touchbar, increased key travel, added back hdmi/sd/headphone/power jacks.<p>Plus bumped up RAM limit, M1, new displays, 120Hz... Wow.
Priced out the one I would buy and it is $4300. Seems the value isn't quite there. Hard to say though without playing with it for a while. So clearly I need to go back to work for some tech company that will buy one for me :-).<p>It is more interesting to me to reflect on the comments from about 5 years ago that "ARM will never be in laptops, its a 'phone' processor."<p>That statement was both true and ignored the reality that if you <i>wanted</i> to put an ARM processor in a laptop you could add features and design it to work that way. Chip design is expensive of course, and so being a company like Apple really makes it possible to do this sort of thing as a 'risk' venture, but what surprises me is that Apple spent maybe $10B over the years developing an in house ARM design capability (after buying PA Semi) and here it is paying them some huge dividends.<p>If you compare that to Microsoft's efforts trying to use off the shelf ARM chips in the original Surface and now the Surface RT and you can really see the advantage of having the chip designers and the software designers depending on each other. That was true in the "WinTel" era when Intel and Microsoft were joined at the hip, but it was never the case for ARM CPU vendors who were more concerned about being in the next flagship phone than what ever it was that Microsoft was doing.<p>What an interesting alternate history if Microsoft decided to develop an in house production chip capability at the same time they decided to get into the hardware business for "real." [1]<p>[1] Yes, I'm aware they have done custom chips, the pixel/pen processor in the Surface is one such but they haven't really jumped in with both feet like Apple did, and certainly haven't had it front and center as long as Apple has.
Kills the touch bar, the light touch keyboard, adds back weight, card reader, ports and the mag safe.<p>Feels like an apology for prior design decisions. My 2011 MBP is new again!
A fair warning to developers: You're getting into an adventure with M1.<p>From docker images not built for M1 with segmentation faults on qemu (eg. Liquibase for spring developers), to _significant_ troubles trying to make React native apps build with the M1 and XCode.<p>Don't get me wrong, I have a Macbook air M1 and I love it, but it hasn't been a love without pain.<p>Also, the magsafe feels like it comes too late. Almost like a political feature in response to the EU measure of enforcing a single charging cable.
I have been waiting on this announcement to buy a new Mac, but now that they are out, I don't think I will buy one.<p>The prices are 2x a Macbook Air, but the utility for me doesn't match. If the 14" was closer to the previous 13" MBP price of $1500 I would be ordering one now, but I will be getting a Macbook Air instead.<p>Note to Veterans: Apple gives a 10% Veterans discount on everything, including the refurbished store.
I really enjoy the way that they admitted their design mistakes of the past by having the speaker mention that users love tactile function keys and made it come back. They tried their best to say it was a mistake without explicitly stating it. It's almost like they did real design and usability studies, and then acted on it!<p>I find it so surprising that in this day, a big tech company is actually listening to its pro user segment (at least more than before).<p>Fingers crossed for lightning port switching to USB-C, Touch ID making a return to mobile devices (does not have to replace Face ID although I wouldn't care if it did), and the screen notch going away over time.
This is literally a dream laptop. Improved in every area and lacking in none I can think of right now. And the price is crazy cheap for this performance if you ask me.
It's refreshing to see them actually listening to customer feedback, I don't think this ever would've happened in a Jobs/Ive world. Would they have released "pro" focused M1 chips/laptops? Absolutely. Would they have gone back on the (IMO) trainwreck that was touchbar and removing everything but 2x USB-C ports? No way.<p>ALSO, I'm actually kind of shocked they're supporting charging by both USB-C and magsafe. That is 100% the right thing to do and 100% the opposite of what Apple would normally do (namely lock you in to having to buy magsafe-3 and magsafe-3 only to charge the laptop).
For me personally, they hit it out of the park -- except for the notch, which seems like a complete showstopper to me at first sight. Maybe it's not so bad in practice if games and full-screen videos keep that whole strip solid black? But almost all the screenshots are of fullscreen apps, so it seems Apple thinks it looks a bit ungainly too.
And so ends the last of the Dark Days of Johnny Ive. Don't get me wrong: he innovated a lot. My theory is when Jobs died, he lost his counterbalance and his designs suddenly became without compromise (no that isn't a good thing).<p>It's when we saw the 12" Macbook as the crusade for thinness at all costs (terrible performance, only one port, a terrible version of the macbook Air), the end of the Macbook Air (before getting resurrected a few years later), the butterfly keyboard (allegedly to save 0.5mm in thickness), the Touch Bar (primarily there to boost Average Selling Price) and the loss of MagSafe.<p>I was surprised last year how good the M1 was. The second generation looks even better. This thing has function keys back, no Touch Bar, MagSafe!!!, some non-TB ports and up to 64GB of RAM.<p>Shut up and take my money!
It's great Apple is changing course back to where they were in 2013. What sucks is that all those laptops built between 2013 and 2022 will be dogs on the used market.<p>For my money, I'm getting the Framework latop and I'm going to bite the bullet and run (in order of preference) FreeBSD, NixOS, or some Linux (Ubuntu, probably). I'm tired of Apple's shit.
When I interviewed at Apple years ago there was a poster on the wall that had a picture of a MacBook with a MagSafe charger connected. A kid was crossing by the desk the laptop was sitting on it and it was about to cross the charging cable. Without MagSafe laptop could've fallen on this kid's head.<p>The writing on the poster said: Come work with people who invented MagSafe to save children's lives. (or something similar)<p>I really liked that poster. Never worked at Apple but I still remember that moment.<p>MagSafe is great! What a shame they took it away for a few years!
I won't be getting one, because the M1 Air is currently more than enough for comfortable webdev, but I'm genuinely happy for people who will be getting one, because those things are incredible!
Everything they’ve said about the new MacBook Pros is extremely promising, but they had to add a notch to the screen. Just why? All for the sake of reducing the top screen border by a couple of millimeters.
Really impressed by the new MacBook Pro. Part of me would really like to order a 14" model with M1 Pro and 32GB RAM. However, I really don't like Apple's direction with macOS. I'm still running a 13" MacBook Pro from 2013.<p>What's a little strange is that I first came to Mac with the introduction of OSX 10.0 although I wasn't overly keen of the hardware at the time. Now, I feel that the situation is reversed. I really like the hardware and am beginning to despise the software -- possibly to the point of abandoning the platform completely.<p>Several years ago, I moved my music collection out of Apple's software and I use an Android phone. I use an old iPad for web browsing and Youtube. I purposefully transitioned to a point where I can leave the Mac platform without a huge effort. It makes me wonder.
Real keys and not touchbar, advertised as a feature in the presentation. What a leap of innovation. Though Apple makes the best hardware, they are arrogant as ever.
64GB of 512bit unified memory is REALLY fast/huge
This will be better than many training GPUs for ML...<p>Better than dual socket servers...<p>I wonder if the mac pro will be dual proc...
I was excited to replace my 2017 MBP with a new model that has a decent keyboard and old-school features like multiple kinds of ports and an SD card slot.<p>With a starting price of $2000, I don’t know that I’m going to pull the trigger right now. My guess is this is a sign of a supply chain crunch, and they are maximizing profit instead of revenue, which makes sense.<p>Still disappointing that getting these basic-seeming features (I don’t care about the performance) costs $600 more than my last MBP. The base Pro shouldn’t jump in price by 50%.
I don't really like the chassis design. It looks dated. But the rest of the Macbook Pro sounds really exciting!<p>For those who missed the keynote, here are some laugh-inducing moments -
"Our Pro users love to use physical function keys. So we have added them"<p>"Our Pro users like to connect a lot of devices without using a lot of dongles"
M1 aside, it's pretty clear that Jony Ive was holding back Apple's designs here. While he worked at Apple it was thinness at all costs, right after he leaves the MBP suddenly gets a tiny bit thicker in order to return a huge chunk of the features that were previously removed. Probably the only thing on this new laptop that can't be pinned on his departure is the M1 series of chips.
Not trying to be snarky here, but... it'll probably come across that way.<p>Will we ever see the end of beach balls? I've got an m1 Mac mini, and ... I see far fewer, but I still see them. I don't understand what with so many core, so must 'fast' and 'powerful' stuff, that my computer will <i>still</i> freeze and lag doing seemingly normal stuff.
I don't plan to go back to MagSafe. I have multiport USB-C chargers all round my house and don't really want to buy lots of cables or proprietary chargers to add to the mix. I'm sticking with USB-C even if it's slower. SD cards I don't use. And HDMI I rarely use so dongles are fine, but it's nice to have I guess!
This was a "Shut up and take my money" day for me.<p>I've been running on a 3-year-old machine, straining at the leash, and it's time to change.<p>I made my order about a minute after the store went live, and I won't get it until next month. I suspect part of that, is because I'm getting the M1 Max processor.<p>They'll make a lot of money, this week.
Can't believe they did so many positive changes with the MBP only to add the notch from the phone in too. Almost the perfect update. Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it?<p>> posted in wrong thread so copying here
This notch looks like it'll be fine. The notch I'm worried about is the one all the PC makers are gonna decide they need now but with zero integration or standardization with Windows.
Feels a return to form, finally approaching this machine from the needs of the users rather than what's compelling for the industrial design team.<p>Every bad decision of the atrocious 2017+ era laptops reverted.
Unfortunately it looks like Apple still has no option to disable temporal dithering or other sources of flicker (PWM, pixel inversion, etc).<p>A minority of people have binocular vision dysfunctions (like convergence insufficiency) that give them severe eyestrain, headaches and migraines when this flicker occurs. Apple should treat this like an accessibility issue (like VoiceOver) but does not. The current treatment from behavioral optometrists is not always effective.<p>I recently found a whole community on this: <a href="https://ledstrain.org" rel="nofollow">https://ledstrain.org</a>.<p>If you have expertise in displays, please join us on LED Strain! We were hoping Apple would address these accessibility issues and let people with vision problems use their products.
Can't believe they did so many positive changes with the MBP only to add the notch from the phone in too. Almost the perfect update. Does this mean every app in full screen has to be updated to account for it?
the notch is a major design compromise and apple is not trying hard enough. i can not imagine paying six thousand dollars for a new laptop and literally staring into an unforced error every day. (See, Dell XPS bezel-less displays like this: <a href="https://twitter.com/SpencerDailey/status/1450170126360358914" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/SpencerDailey/status/1450170126360358914</a>)<p>I hide my menu bar for maximum space, and you can't do that here without eating into your main apps' vertical space. the notch also reminds people of iphone features, which makes a touch screen an even more obvious omission, as well as Face ID. (FaceID is trending on twitter b/c people assume this laptop ships with it: <a href="https://twitter.com/MKBHD/status/1450162489795170307" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/MKBHD/status/1450162489795170307</a> )
I've got to say these M1 chips are very tempting. I've been a Linux guy for a long time now and these make me contemplate the switch. I really wish apple had a real competitor in the laptop space, but honestly no one seems to come close to apple's hardware quality. I'm really hoping to see some M1 style chips for non-apple hardware in the near future.
The hardware is amazing, but I could not see myself going back to proprietary closed source OS. I would like to chose the distro (hey some people want NIX some OK with Ubuntu), X11 vs Wayland, pick the display manager, decide if I want to run LTS or beelding-edge, etc. My only hope is that some day Linux support all MBP hardware well enough to use this a Linux laptop.
It seems like Apple purposely comes so close to offering the perfect laptop only to falter hard on one or two features. In this case, it's the battery life. Continuous web use time is down from 17 hours on the 2020 13" M1 to 11 hours on the new 14". That's "up to" time, mind you, and with real use as a developer I expect getting 75% of that at most. So 11 hours just isn't enough time. I buy a laptop for mobility. I shouldn't have to plug it in at all during my work day. Yes, it's better than competitors but still lacking.<p>I would have been happier if they took the 13" M1 and added the ports.
In terms of the outsides, this matches up almost exactly with Benjamin Button reviews the late 2016 MacBook Pro <a href="https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the_new_macbook_pro/" rel="nofollow">https://blog.pinboard.in/2016/10/benjamin_button_reviews_the...</a>
Does anyone know why would it need 140w power adapter? I thought the M1 chips are supposed to be more power efficient than the Intel ones, and they never needed >100w power adapter in the Intel days.<p>The new USB-C spec to support >100w power delivery was just out, I really hope they are following that spec in their new 140w USB-C power adapter.
The worst thing about the NotchBook - this union of iPhone notch with MacBook - is that all the other laptop manufacturers have a way of copying Apple's decisions: non-replaceable batteries, soldered in RAM and SSD, fewer ports, near-zero key travel for keyboards, and now a notch. The Dell XPS line has had ultra-thin bezels for ages with no notch but now future XPSes might have a notch just because some Dell suits thought, "Look at how many of these NotchBooks Apple is selling. Consumers must <i>want</i> the notch." But correlations of sales are not causations of sales.
I know it will be an unpopular opinion here, but bringing back the HDMI and SD card port is making the macbook much thicker and will eat up some space than can be used by battery instead, all that for ports I will never use. I wish there was another option without these ports.
Can anyone comment on how well M1 chips work with X86 development workflows e.g. Brew, Docker, etc? I know there are still problems if you're heavily dependent on Virtualization software like VMWare and Virtual Box.<p>For example, will I be able to just do the same "brew install x" for the majority of the *nix apps, libs, services, etc. that I use daily?<p>How bout Docker Desktop and Docker images? For example, if all my teammates are using older Intel Macs, PCs, etc. and we deploy and develop using X86 images, will I need to be very careful that I don't end up pushing Arm based Docker images to our repo? Will I need to have modified Docker / Docker-Compose files that reference Arm versions of our images so they can run on my machine?<p>This just seems like a pain if you're the only one using Arm, while the rest of the team and various environments are on X86-64. It took years before most Node, Python, Java, etc. incompatibilities between Unix and Windows were ironed out, and I still run into issues when, e.g., an inexperienced developer on Windows hardcodes some 'backslashed' path in their app or assumes Windows line endings instead of standard Unix.
I can live without HDMI, but it never made sense to me to put SD on the chopping block. In what sense was USB-C ever supposed to be an alternative to SD card slots?<p>Edit: For clarity, read my reply to anamexis before responding to this.
And here I am with my Lenovo S10-3 still doing fine in 2021. My use case is if I can produce something fast with this machine then half of the battle has already been won because by default I need to optimize for the lowest possible spec of my target market.<p>Obviously, I know this won't apply to everyone but anyway I hope this will continue for me a couple more years.
For me, think about that memory bandwidth. No other CPU comes even close. A Ryzen 5950X can only transfer about 43GB/s. This thing promises <i>400GB/s</i> on the highest-end model.
The 16" has a 140w charger, the 14" has a 97w charger. Did the TSA stop limiting chargers to 97-100w? I priced both w/32core 32gb 512ssd and the 16" is only $299 more than the 14" .. I want the 14" though, I'd like that 140w charger..<p>edit: I confused this with the battery maximums, nevermind! Thanks for letting me know!
one more thing ... <a href="https://store.apple.com/xc/product/MM6F3AM/A" rel="nofollow">https://store.apple.com/xc/product/MM6F3AM/A</a>
I hate the notch. I wish I could get the 14inch body with the M1 (not pro/max) chip in it for <$1200. All I want are ports in last year's MBP but don't feel the need to spend $2k on a laptop I infrequently use.
All laptop manufacturers have relied on Intel for years. That was fine when Intel was competitive. But now all those manufacturers are massively behind. They can either wait for Intel to catch up (unlikely), switch to AMD, which is better, but still behind, or they can try to move to ARM. Though that's really hard since they're relying on Windows.<p>Really this is a massive miss from Microsoft and their partners that many saw coming years ago. It's obvious that this is precisely why Apple likes to bring tech in-house. To avoid depending on something that isn't competitive.
The cool thing about these macs is that apple is starting to decouple the processor from the type of Mac. You can choose between a pro and a max . If they do this for it’s whole product line it would be interesting.
as beautiful as the hardware is, I just cannot stomach buying another machine I can not comfortably replace the battery in. Either Apple returns to its earliest roots of making machines that are easy to repair, or find me and many others buying machines from the likes of Frame.work instead.
I guess I'm pretty much alone here, but I don't really like these new MacBooks.<p>The things I'm happy about:<p><pre><code> - Function keys are back!
- They kept touchID
- Chips are probably pretty good
- Headphone jack, yay!
</code></pre>
But what I really dislike:<p><pre><code> - The case-design looks kind of outdated. I'm getting MacBook Pro 2006 vibes here.
- The base price starts at 2.000$ (2250€) !
- The notch... On the iPhone the notch was justified with a whole sensor array for FaceID, now we have something similar sized here for one 1080p camera. With a hole-punch I wouldn't have said anything; but here I'd rather have 2-3cm of bezels than a big notch.
- I really bought into the USB-C future! I know that's not the case for everyone, and the addition of the SD-Card reader is welcome. But the HDMI port seems a bit...strange to me. It doesn't really cry "future of connectivity". I charge my MacBook with USB-C I connect my screens with USB-C (to display port) and for my occasional USB-A and HDMI needs I get out my one dongle. This actually seems like a step backwards for me.
</code></pre>
I know lots of these are highly opinionated, but...yeah: Bummer for me.
For me these devices look incredible. Can anything come even close to the performance/energy usage of these? And with a great screen, sound, and good webcam?<p>And as an iPhone user, the notch really isn't a big deal. In fact it's a positive because you get more usuable screen space.<p>Yes they're expensive, but, for something we use every day for 8hours+, it seems worth it.
Amazing update. I still wish the m1 air supported 2 external displays though, as I would still prefer the smaller form factor, lighter weight, fanless design, and cheaper price, as I don't need the pro power. Hopefully the refreshed air will get support for 2 external displays sooner rather than later as it is otherwise perfect.
I have a feeling that if they had released an updated Mac Mini with the new chips, it would have appreciably dented the sales of new MacBook Pros.<p>Too many people don't agree with the notch aesthetic and probably pair a discrete unit with their preferred display. Right now Apple doesn't want their race horse being outrun by an underdog.
I feel like I’m alone with this opinion, but: I can’t buy one of these, as much as I’d like to. I still have to use windows half of the time because of software that’s missing on MacOS. So either I get to buy and maintain 2 laptops or settle for one and I think pragmatic wins over shiny, so I’ll get a boring old windows machine.
Does someone know the implications of the new M1 chips for
neural network training? If I get it right, we'll see upto 64GB GPU on the new M1 processors?
The processing performance will not be the same as on a dedicated graphics card, but 64GB is a game changer, especially for large models, isn't it?
Hopefully, they didn't change much in terms of software interface so Asahi Linux would work [1] out of the box.<p>[1] <a href="https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-2021/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://asahilinux.org/2021/10/progress-report-september-202...</a>
How many external monitors does it support? I got an M1 mini only to find out it could only drive 2 4K monitor. And the M1 notebooks can only use 1 external 4K monitor. I'm not getting one of these until I can run 3 external 4K monitors like I'm doing on my 2019 Macbook 16-inch right now.
I’m seriously considering buying a middle-spec M1 MBP, and I also have a preorder for a DIY Edition Framework laptop[0]. I realize devices which give users more freedom to tinker, repair, customize, improve, etc. may never compete for market share with locked-down devices which are harder to repair, upgrade, and recycle, but my hope is that the former will at least remain a viable option. It’s tempting to splurge on a top-of-the-line MBP, but I prefer to split my money so at least some of it goes toward sustainable and freedom-respecting computing.<p>[0]<a href="https://frame.work/laptop-diy-edition" rel="nofollow">https://frame.work/laptop-diy-edition</a>
Really hard to tell if the $800 upgrade from 16GB RAM to 32GB RAM is worth it since you also get a mysterious 16GPU to 32GPU upgrade..<p>10-Core CPU
16-Core GPU
16GB Unified Memory
1TB SSD Storage¹
16-core Neural Engine
16-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port
Magic Keyboard with Touch ID
Force Touch trackpad
140W USB-C Power Adapter
$2,699.00<p>10-Core CPU
32-Core GPU
32GB Unified Memory
1TB SSD Storage¹
16-core Neural Engine
16-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port
Magic Keyboard with Touch ID
Force Touch trackpad
140W USB-C Power Adapter
$3,499.00
These all look amazing. Interesting to see them drop the popular 15.4" size. All my accessories that are sized for that form factor will have to be purchased again. I'm thinking especially of the vertical dock I have.
I am not interested in Apple's ecosystem. While I stay with X86 I wonder if and when AMD and Intel will catch up. Or if another ARM chip maker will release a chip as good but without tying it to a proprietary system.
Still no LTE modem. The Apple Watch can be configured with an LTE modem, but the highest-end MacBook Pro cannot. Is this because of Qualcomm royalties? Is there any technical reason why the market has failed?
Both 14" and 16" can use the highest spec Pro processor. But the 14" only needs 96W while the 16" can go up to 140W.<p>Does that mean that the 14" will be throttled on heavy workloads?
I have been very happy with my M1 systems, and I’m looking forward to getting function keys back. However, the SD card capability is coming back at a time when pros are moving to CFExpress cards.<p>Unfortunately, there are some form factor differences between these new, much faster, cards used in higher end Sony, Cannon, and Nikon cameras. It’s a bit confusing since there are three types of CFExpress cards—I wonder if the new MacBook Pros can read any of them?
Why no one is talking about the base 14" 8-Core CPU and 14-Core GPU but not a single mention in the presentation ?<p>How the new M1 Pro 8 core compared the the M1 8 core ?
Unpopular opinion: I am surprised by how much people like MagSafe. Charging over usb-c seems so ideal: one cable for all of my devices. And in a decade, the number of times I've tripped or banged on the cable in a way that having MagSafe would have made a difference is zero. Just trying to understand others I guess... What makes it so appealing, given you have to carry around more stuff to use it?
These are the best Mac laptops in YEARS. I'm only 2 years into a usually-3-to-5-year replacement cycle, and I'm VERY tempted, especially with the trade-in offer on my 2019 model.<p>I guess it was Jony Ive that was pushing the "thinness above everything else" mantra that gave us embarrassing keyboards and no ports other than USB-C. I'm very glad he's gone and that's over.
No one seems to be commenting on the 140 watt power adapter.<p>With the caveat that I already dropped $7k (after tax) on a top-spec model, I am very interested in seeing how hot these get. Particularly in light of how cool the M1 runs.<p>Prior to my current M1 MBP, my daily driver was a maxed-out 16" MBP. It's a very solid computer, but it functions just as well as a space heater.<p>And its power brick is only 100 watts...
Too bad Apple shows performance compared to intel cpus. I’d like to see it also compared to 8 core M1.<p>Edit. Correction. The other link directly to the new processors does give comparisons to standard M1. It’s really impressive! But it’s also unnecessary unless you’re doing some very heavy, specialized work. Normal modern full stack development probably won’t be noticeably faster.
Using the m1 air for almost a year now I can't imagine going to another laptop with a fan. Doesn't matter what I ever do there is never any noise. I'm sure the fan in the Pro models almost never come on and you could also install something to limit max cpu frequency before fan is turned on, but having no fan is the next level.
I'm happy to magsafe back. Even though I usually have mine sitting on a stand, I'm just lucky that I haven't yanked everything off my desk at this point. HDMI I couldn't care less about, but I suppose it provides another way to hook up to my display. I use a usb-c -> displayport connector most of the time though.
Hooray for the return of MagSafe and the other ports! Thank you for listening, Apple.<p>Just one mention of "games" and it's about the display resolution, so it sounds like Apple still doesn't care about getting more game developers on Mac.<p>> thermal systems move 50 percent more air, even at lower fan speeds.<p>Does that mean it's even louder than before?
These laptops are very impressive, but until there is clarification on their CSAM scanning plans/their future intentions with that, it's going to make me wait. The thought of my OS being integrated with ANY government database with only the assurances of 'trust us, we will say no' still repels me.
Weird that only the 13" Pro retains the touchbar. The 13" Pro is in a really weird place now. I don't know who it's for at this point. I can't think of any reason I'd choose it. I'd either get the Air or the 14" Pro. I suspect it won't remain in the lineup for long.
It’s weird how now the only touch bar mac is that weird m1 macbook pro which now nobody will be buying when the 14 inch is so much better for not much more money, and the macbook air is almost as good for a lot less money. They went from all pro macbooks sold having touch bars to effectively none of them.
Ooh they're shipping the 16-inch with a 140w power adapter:
<a href="https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYU3AM/A/" rel="nofollow">https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MLYU3AM/A/</a><p>Sadly looks like its still not GaN, this thing is a beast...
Have Macbook Pro sales been declining for the past few years? I can understand removing the touchbar as a bad experiment but I thought Apple was obstinate about the move to USB-C. Really did not expect this backpeddling.<p>Edit - I'm definitely pleased with the move to add more ports. Just surprised.
The pricing suggests that the M1 mini was priced aggressively as a marketing strategy, and that now that the dust is settling the cost of the M1 powered macs is going to be less of a value win than I'd initially hoped.<p>Looking forward to actual use benchmarks for the things I'd use it for.
Maybe they added the notch so that when they remove it next year people will have to dish out another 2-5k to get the non-notch version. Specially given that there were a lot rumors that iPhone was going to get rid of its notch this year. Now it's likely to happen next year.
My iPhone 13 has an amazing front facing 1080p camera, FaceID scanner thing, speaker, and other stuff crammed into a small notch, but the notch on this is even larger and only has a camera? What gives? Why is the notch so wide?<p>(I'm still getting one to replace my 2012 MacBook Pro)
God I want Linux on these things. Apple have built some very sexy hardware, but I'm still not into the OS. It's just... sluggish (mostly in terms of productivity, not performance), too barebones, too basic and toy-like. I need a real OS to make my dream laptop.
Seems like a great improvement over the latest models (since 2015). Still, I'll wait until they fix issues with virtualization. I don't know how virtual machines will perform on the M1 but I doubt it will match performance on PC Linux machines.
I haven't been able to see if the DAC that powers the headphone port supports 24-bit/192 kHz yet. Being able to listen to Lossless audio without a USB DAC would be nice.<p>It seems possible that Apple would add that since it's a feature of Apple Music Lossless.
The notch doesn't look annoying on the Mac as that area is used by the menu bar anyway. However, I don't understand the reason for it since it doesn't have faceid. Why not just go for a punch hole design? What else is in that notch??
Does anyone have a handle on how the new M1X is expected to perform on Deep Learning training runs vs a NVIDIA 1080Ti / 2080Ti. I think the 400 Gbps bandwidth and 64 GB unified memory will help - but can anyone extrapolate based on the M1 ?
Uhhhh can the MacBooks charge via USB-C? Because I’ve been investing heavily in usb-c chargers (they are $80 and I bought 5 of them for traveling, different room etc). If they can’t be used for charging anymore I’m going to lose my shit for real
I put off trip to Bali until this update. Last time, the screen cracked due to lid closed and heat buildup with fan trying cool in a positive feedback loop. Had to fly to Singapore to replace. This time, carrying (soon to be) old MBP as backup.
I’m curious about all the distaste people have of the notch. It’s more screen space. Would people prefer a larger bezel? My guess is you’ll have the option for a virtual bezel on apps that don’t properly account for the notch.
I am so excited that the new MacBook Pro contains so many things that customers had been yearning.<p>Couple that with 64GB RAM and M1 Max, if I am going to spend > $3000 for a laptop, this MBP is basically the only game in town for me.
Killer specs, better keyboard (no touchbar), more ports, and yet the most frequent comment here is about the notch. HN is a tough crowd to say the least, in this instance IMO to the point of it being comical.
These look great, but why bother continuing to sell the 13" or the Air? Or said another way - if the Air and the 13" are basically your "loss leader" then why continue to sell <i>both</i>.
I’m so disappointed to trade a multifunction thunderbolt port for a single use hdmi port when the same thing can be done with a £5 cable. I wish I could get that M1 pro max chip in my current MacBook Pro.
Apology accepted, but way to drag your heels.<p>You couldn’t just say sorry could you, Apple? You had to throw in a little barb at the same time. That’s ok: you wouldn’t be you if you weren’t overly prideful.<p>Escape keys are 1U.
I have a Framework laptop on order. But I must say that I am <i>very</i> tempted. If my attempt at daily driving linux doesn't work out, I will probably get the M1 Max 14'' MBP.
I dread manually resizing tiled windows every single time now. This is especially true if others in my situation do code reviews on two side-by-side non-fullscreen windows.<p>> Comment moved from other post.
With all these computational capabilities and an upgraded camera, I’m surprised that Apple put a notch into their MacBook Pro line but left out FaceID. This seems like a bizarre omission.
Now as soon as they add a lightningbolt port (not to be confused with thunderbolt) for the (ahem) headphones jack, then we can finally do away with all of the hideous dongles.
I hope this lasts me 5 years like my 2016 MBP! Ordered and aside from the notch (they are adding Face ID later I take it? And minority report gestures?) I think it’s PERFECT.
Wondering how videogames will play on a specced-out MB pro, and whether this insane amount of GPU power will drive some developers who also are gamers to this machine.
How come when you upgrade to the 24 core M1 max, it adds +$600 when the upgrade lists it as +$200. After you try to remove the upgrade the price only drops by only -$200.<p>Is this a bug?
Looks like they focused a lot more on utility this go around. Going to try out the 16 inch but hoping it can fit in my bags well and isn't a hassle for traveling.
I guess Moore's law is slowing down?<p>the single-core benchmark for this is about 2x better than the score for my 2012 macbook pro. 2x in 10 years doesn't seem that great.
Pretty bummed about magsafe.<p>No more taking one charger for 5 devices and another single purpose cable that isn't so easy to get a workable backup/replacement for.
Fixed everything they've broken in the past 5 years then added a notch... They haven't had a perfect machine in years, and the trend continues.
So close. But that camera notch would drive me nuts.<p>Curious: does it cut into a normal resolution/ratio or is it giving you extra pixels at the sides of the camera?
I want to hate it because I <i>really</i> wanted normal USB back, but I guess that ship has sailed.<p>I love it. I want one. Gonna be tough not to hit that order button!
And just like that, the outrage about the photo scanning malware Apple installed on their iPhone is forgotten.<p>"The screeching voices of the minority" indeed.
Interested if the macsafe cable ends in a power adapter or ends in a usb-c plug.<p>E.g can I attach a usb-c to usb-c cable to the accompanying power brick when traveling?
Anyone else think the new cross section looks a bit odd? Very flat on top.<p>I am glad they did not copy the rounded off corner keys from the new iMac keyboards, though.
Now if I could just get one with an ortho keyboard layout…<p>The 14 inch max with 64 gb ram looks fucking T A S T Y. If only my hands could laptop keyboard ={
I’m so frustrated. I bought the 13inch M1 in July, and was bummed it only supports one external display and has only two USB-C ports. This makes it pretty frustrating to use at my workstation (can't use all my monitors, hard to connect my keyboard/mouse/peripherals). Not even 3 months later they release this? It feels like such a fucking gut punch, I would have returned my M1 had I known that this was coming…
The notch is awful, it took Apple years to finally upgrade their crapy 720p camera to a mere 1080 and now they added an ugly notch around it that ruins the aesthetic of every program in fullscreen. Even in normal mode I have several menubar apps that show things like cpu load, bandwidth, etc that span almost the full width of the screen, the notch will certainly make it worse.
I'm curios as to why these much more energy efficient chips require a significant upgrade of the power brick, now at 140W that's more than 40W higher than the Intel chips (and only for the 16" model).<p>Not a big deal, but can't see what would require the massive upgrade (and I'm a bit frustrated that all my cables are only rated for 100W)
Cool, the screen has a chunk taken out of it, great stuff. I'm sure everyone will consider this a feature, and next year you'll hardly be able to get a PC laptop without a third of the top of the screen devoted to a notch and hard radii ground off the top corners, as well.<p>Glad I bought my M1 when I did. At least it's a normal laptop.
Its amusing that a lot of the features being hyped are simply Apple giving up on terrible design features they've been forcing for years and just providing what every other laptop does (normal keyboard, no touch bar and physical function keys, ports for HDMI cables, headphones, SD cards).
I came into these comments and one guy said "The machine I spec'ced out only costs $4300" and another guy said "They just put back the ports and features they should have kept in 2011" and I noped out of these comments. Your mileage may vary.
So basically apple just went back to the things they tried to fix that weren't broken and then messed up the aesthetics by making it a design from 2010 and added a notch. Why do they do this. Does the design team not understand how to design macbook pros ?
I'm curious to know why they decided to keep the headphone jack. I thought the narrative was that users don't need it. it's obsolete and wireless audio is the new normal. Yet, it is still there. It seems slightly incoherent.
Yay magsafe is back.<p>Boo magsafe is now a brand new one, incompatible with old chargers, and even usb-c chargers. YAY! Rejoice!<p>Jesus I hate apple's policies on dongles and such.<p>But at least they ackgnowledged that everyone wants an hdmi connection. Everyone.
2k USD for a laptop in 2021?<p>Apple's goddamn genius. Oh, it has a newer processor that'll make awful software such as XCode and every internet browser a little faster? Well I'm in!
why are the new models fatter, wider and heavier than the old ones?<p><a href="https://support.apple.com/kb/SP809?locale=en_US" rel="nofollow">https://support.apple.com/kb/SP809?locale=en_US</a>
<a href="https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/specs/" rel="nofollow">https://www.apple.com/macbook-pro-14-and-16/specs/</a><p>shouldn't it be the other way around with the integrated chips, thinner screen etc etc?
Nice. Ports are back. Very nice. Prices are up. Not nice.
The deal breaker is the notch.
Sorry Apple I am a designer. I cannot watch this 24/7.
Even if the top bar is black the notch will be visible enough to distract my visual line.
The more I look at this, the more I like the Framework laptop.<p>P.S.
Happy down-voting, have a nice day and stay safe.
What happens if you plug-in an external display? With 3456-by-2234 non-standard ratio (neither 16:9 nor 16:10), will there be black bars on the sides when you mirror screens? If you don't mirror screens, the MacOS still does not rescale DPIs properly (unless it's Apple's own $4,999 retina monitor).
> HDMI, SD Card, and MagSafe. Things people on the internet inclusive but not limited to HN said they will never come back because the future is USB-C.<p>Gonna be downvoted for the snark but... I'd like to hear now how the "a usb-c dongle fixes everything and it's perfect" Apple crowd will backpedal on this.
It's the "Fuck you Jony" edition. Ports (including HDMI!), MagSafe, and no touchbar. Would be a fine laptop if it didn't have government spyware baked in that I can't turn off even if I power it down.
theory: the notch is apples way to keep people from taping over the webcam, a few percentage points. who benefits from less tape, at population scale, on a little used but programmatically controllable camera?
That notch thing will put me off!
Ugliest impractical thing causing additional efforts and potential troubles unnecessarily. Avoiding iPhones with that, will do the same with laptops.<p>And that magsafe -> no magsafe -> magsafe again disarray! Come on, make up your f mind. I held off buying new computer looong, did not want to leave MagSafe, it recently died so was forced into USB-C charging, which I did not want at all, ok, reshaped my practice and now this?! A never existed incompatible magsafe again?! I don't want to switch yet again, the magsafe 1 to 2 was a pain alone, then USB-C is a torture, I fn not do that again! Ok it presumably charges through thunderbolt 4 ports too with USB-C (theoretically, one never knows as I heard) but you spread your new magsafe after killing it proudly and loudly!? Jesus!<p>How come Apple can ruin and confuse things so effortlessly, do they have a mandatory training in that or what?! It is big kudos to remove touchbar, have (have?) proper keyboard after the pathetic stumble series of trying to reinvent the wheel and f up the life of millions (the Air M1 is flawed still, repeats keys frequently), hallelujah for having HDMI again, finally paying attention of practicaliities in a consumer product not just the appearances and show-off but come on! Now this idiotic notch thing and the zillionth way of charging again? Very off putting, again, continuouusly now. Actually not interested to buy. (luckily I do not need a power plannt only a decent performing one so I can live with my advanced Air M1 for long long long time - assuming the keybard holds off -, when my wife's old Air dies we will stick to that or turning back to some serious manufacturer making laptops for use not for show)