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A proposal to start “llvm-libc” (2020)

183 pointsby rdpintqogeogsaaover 3 years ago

11 comments

Falellover 3 years ago
Sounds complicated, but the goal of a fuzzable&#x2F;sanitizable&#x2F;etc libc sounds nice.<p>Lack of ABI stability sounds terrifying as an application developer. My other immediate thought was &quot;how will this interact with systems where the OS-provided libc is the only stable way to e.g. make syscalls&quot;, and &quot;Layering Over Another libc&quot; addresses this. I guess the idea is you&#x27;d link an application against llvm-libc and the system libc, and ship llvm-libc with your application?
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exikyutover 3 years ago
Hmm, my one question is: what platforms will this explicitly support?<p>Linux, macOS, Windows, FreeBSD, and probably OpenBSD seem shoo-in table stakes.<p>I&#x27;m more curious about<p>- iOS&#x2F;iPadOS: already have a libc, but... maybe?<p>- Android: already has bionic&#x2F;NDK; alternative useful?<p>- NetBSD: rump kernel&#x2F;unikernel applications?<p>- VMS: has x86_64 support now; suddenly less irrelevant than before?<p>- QNX: IIUC still the best deterministic&#x2F;hard real time POSIX OS...<p>- Illumos: not dead <i>yet</i>?<p>- HP-UX&#x2F;AIX: still used in certain industrial applications...?<p>- Serenity: ...oh wait, just realized this isn&#x27;t full POSIX, woops (would that be a prerequisite?)<p>- (what obvious thing did I forget? :P)<p>I ask this question mostly to update my understanding of &quot;the state of kernel&#x2F;OS interestingness, ~2022&quot;, since the process of deciding what targets a new major libc should consider relevant is going to be both well-informed and carefully considered given the anticipated (hoped) timescale of such a project.
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ndesaulniersover 3 years ago
I hope one day that I can statically link against my libc easily one day. Not just statically link but even LTO my libc into my binary. I understand the &quot;security&quot; concerns, but I feel there are cases where they don&#x27;t matter.<p>Case in point; my C compiler. It already was not designed to handle untrusted input well enough and I plan to run multiple instances in parallel, so my kernel should handle COW.
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bchover 3 years ago
In the absence any any mention of licensing, I presume this is Apache-2… I don’t know if I’ve ever seen such a core piece of infra licensed that way (am used to BSD or MIT) - others might know better than I: is this a sane way forward?
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spullaraover 3 years ago
Since this is now over 2 years old is there any progress?
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flohofwoeover 3 years ago
&gt; but take advantage and use C++ language facilities for the core implementation.<p>This point sticks out. Would be nice to get some more details why it would make sense to use C++ for the implementation instead of C.
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TheBrokenRailover 3 years ago
I see this as nothing but a good thing. Especially since this seems like it can delegate to a system libc for necessary functions.
eatonphilover 3 years ago
When was this published? I can&#x27;t tell if the last edit date at the bottom is for the entire site or this page.
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account42over 3 years ago
&gt; Ability to layer this libc over the system libc if possible and desired for a platform.<p>This sounds nice for being able to use newer C&#x2F;C++ library functions when targeting an older system libc by statically linking the llvm-libc implementation of the missing functions.
pabs3over 3 years ago
I wonder if it will support versioned symbols for ABI stability like glibc does.
po1ntover 3 years ago
I&#x27;ve expected some plot twist like &quot;It will be coded in Rust&quot;
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