It really is strange that Telegram is commonly considered an "encrypted" messenger while the app makes it very difficult for users to actually use e2ee.<p>The feature is hidden, and old "secret chats" stop working after a while without any indication that messages cannot be delivered anymore.
To start a "secret chat" one must access it from a menu entry stashed away in users' profiles.
And you can only start writing a secret message when the other side "comes online" for the first time after starting a "secret chat".<p>All discussions about the technical implementation of e2ee in Telegram aside, this makes e2ee a pain, which is why it is rarely used (by most) if not desparately needed.
Most people use Telegram for its superior set of features and convenience. The fact that everything is stored on the server-side actually works in favour of its user base by giving them a functionality many desperately need - that of accessing all chats and records ubiquitously, from wherever you want, at any time, from any device. The ability to make channels and groups of thousands of people only works into making it a pseudo-social-media super-app that appeals even more to its users. Besides, it allows you to remain anonymous on its platform despite requiring a phone number for registration.<p>I have seen so many people going through the horror of losing everything on WhatsApp whenever they switch phone platforms - the chat backups it creates are not transferable across Android and iOS for some reason and there is no way to recover your conversations at all in such a case. Telegram covers many things where its alternatives fall short, but privacy and security are not one of them.
Sry Moxie, you lost my trust when you temporarily took the signal codebase closed source to integrate some cryptocurrency scams into it. Now your criticism just sounds like whining about a more successful competitor. Why is Telegram winning against Signal ? Mainly because the app is more stable and doesn't dictate its philosophy to the user. Proper e2e encryption has tradeoffs. Why shouldn't the user decide for which conversations he is willing to place convenience over security ? Why does Signal force users to use a pin even if they don't want to ? Why do you lose your history when you switch between android and ios ? why would I choose a messenger that requires a phone number over another that does not ? I was an enthusiastic evangelist for signal. But over the years you just lost me. I still use it but I don't recommend it anymore. I know, I'm not the only one. Apparently you seem to think, you can make up for it with paid advertising that you plastered my city with (repeatedly). I would have preferred to see that budget allotted to developing a more stable client and new features, but I'm not calling the shots.
Anything posted anywhere about criticism of Signal is either downvoted or "banned". The entire thread sounded like whining. Most of my contacts have left Signal anyway.
Since there's a double step to remove your number completely, users who have deleted signal from their devices still show up as Signal users. The actual number of active users? No idea.
Telegram meanwhile grows steadily.
It would mean more if it wasn't coming from a player with a lot of skin in the game.<p>He is right in his technical concerns, but what I see is that Telegram is used in a different way around here. I and my friends don't use it for 1:1 chats. But for finding public chat groups on topics. For example I joined a public group where people mentioned drops of hard to get video cards. I got my Founder's Edition card for actual RRP because of that, instead of the inflated prices due to the shortages.<p>It's a bit similar in the way it's not a problem that IRC has no E2E encryption. The channels are meant to be public. Anyone can join them at any time.<p>I also use telegram for notifications because they're open to bots and you can even add images. So I have my own server notifications coming through there. Nothing sensitive in those. Signal in contrast does not allow any third party app on their network, moxie has said so many times.<p>I never use Telegram secret chats because they suck. Both parties need to be online at the same time and it can only be used on one device. But I don't view Telegram in the same way as Signal or Whatsapp. There's a place for both.<p>My real favourite is Matrix though. It does have good E2E encryption and also has good public channels (which don't need encryption). It's also decentralised, you can run your own homeserver with complete history right on your own system. It has bridges to other networks so you can reduce proprietary apps, and it welcomes third party apps. It's the best of all worlds IMO. Signal is still a walled garden even though it's a more private one.
I subscribe to the conspiracy theory that Telegram is actually a plant by a security service (FSB?). The app seems to be constructed in bad faith. Presumably Telegram has the resources to increase their encryption/privacy level, yet they have not done so, so the question "why would anyone knowingly market an app as a private messenger without providing privacy" can only be answered by "because they want the data". And who would want the data of people who think they are communicating privately but are actually not?
Moxie obsession with Telegram is odd especially when he blocks anyone just a tat critical about signal. He seems to be unable to deal with any criticism even if constructive.<p>I don't trust him, sorry.
See also: <a href="https://buttondown.email/cryptography-dispatches/archive/cryptography-dispatches-the-most-backdoor-looking/" rel="nofollow">https://buttondown.email/cryptography-dispatches/archive/cry...</a>