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I made my first web0 website today. It's so cool it just works

258 pointsby cookingoilsover 3 years ago

54 comments

dxbydtover 3 years ago
I made my first &quot;professional&quot; web0 page 25 years ago.<p>I made twenty of them, in fact. Each of the 20 webpages belonged to a Computer Science professor in the CS department I was in. I got paid a grand total of $800 to do that. Of that, I paid $200 in rent to my landlord for my room and utilities. My monthly groceries were always under $100. The remaining $500 I diligently sent home to my poor mom &amp; dad back in India.<p>Of the 20 professors, one(two?) has died. Few have retired. Some have quit academia for industry. The rest have replaced my web0 page with the latest &amp; greatest web2, web2++ pages.<p>But one stubborn professor continues to hang on to the web0 page I made for him !!! When I made that page, he was an assistant professor. He became associate professor, then full professor, then Dean! Here is his web0 page I made for him 25 years ago - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unf.edu&#x2F;~wkloster&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.unf.edu&#x2F;~wkloster&#x2F;</a>
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tehjokerover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s funny that web3 is being sold as the decentralized web when that&#x27;s what the internet architecture was literally designed for -- to survive an apocalyptic nuclear war. However, big players used their ability to purchase infrastructure and unforeseen flaws in the protocols to centralize much of the activity on the web. Lol if you think money can&#x27;t do that to any decentralized architecture.<p>One thing that would at least help. We got the web fractured from a p2p two-way street into a broadcast medium because ISP&#x27;s were able to use the exhaustion of the IPv4 address space to limit stable IPs to business class connections. I can&#x27;t claim we can bring that back, but wide deployment of IPv6 would at least demolish the argument against consumer static IPs and open up the network as a fair flat graph again.
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fb03over 3 years ago
Sorry, but this is a rant.<p>I am deeply saddened by the current state of affairs in the web today. in Javascript right now there are so many layers upon layers upon layers of DSLs and mannerisms on top of questionable language features which &#x27;must be used&#x27; because the former language features are not cool anymore since a few days ago. The whole ecosystem is turning into a meme of itself.<p>In a few months someone will reinvent another part of the big clusterfuck again and publish it in a shiny new website and we&#x27;ll have another 3 month old Javascript framework being touted as the next earth-shattering thing that will revolutionize all things. And again. And again.<p>We have nice things. We have nice abstractions already. We should be working on toning down and optimizing the good stuff, the good bits that get stuff done, not ramping up on new shiny buttons for each and every edge case out there just because we need to stay on the loop (whatever this loop is).
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DyslexicAtheistover 3 years ago
<p><pre><code> Web 1.0: HTML Web 2.0: HTML + Javascript Web 3.0: HTML + Javascript + Ponzi. </code></pre> source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;jeremiahg&#x2F;status&#x2F;1473768877377130505" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;jeremiahg&#x2F;status&#x2F;1473768877377130505</a>
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dvtover 3 years ago
Ah, yes, I remember this from web0:<p><pre><code> &lt;meta name=&quot;twitter:card&quot; content=&quot;summary_large_image&quot;&gt; &lt;meta name=&quot;twitter:title&quot; content=&quot;My first web0 website!&quot;&gt; &lt;meta name=&quot;twitter:description&quot; content=&quot;&quot;&gt; &lt;meta name=&quot;twitter:image&quot; content=&quot;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;elliott.computer&#x2F;pages&#x2F;web0&#x2F;social.jpg&quot;&gt; </code></pre> Trying to make web3 go away is just as pointless as trying to make web2 go away. It&#x27;s here, it&#x27;s going to stick around. Yes, there&#x27;s a lot of hype, it probably won&#x27;t look the same in 10 years, and yes there&#x27;s a lot of charlatans, but I think ignoring its importance is myopic.
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throwaway2016aover 3 years ago
I would say Web 0 was Gopher and Usenet. This page is definitely Web 1.<p>But with that said, I do find it interesting how many Web 3 things are just more complicated ways to solve problems already solved in the 80s and 90s.<p>I remember when I first heard Web 2.0 in a conference by Tim O&#x27;Reilly. I wasn&#x27;t a fan but it became a convenient way to describe a new web that was driven by user generated and dynamic content. With the help of this new thing called Ajax and mirror effect, lots and lot of mirror effects on graphics and 12 pointed stars.<p>Web 3 is not an evolution of the web but rather a side show. A side show that will definitely have some useful things come of it but it lacks the spirit of Web 2.
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userbinatorover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s both pleasing and a little disappointing to see this being &quot;marketed&quot; under the name &quot;web0&quot; --- especially on a &quot;nonstandard&quot; TLD. <i>All</i> websites used to be simple handwritten hyperlinked pages. I guess what&#x27;s old is new again?<p>Of course, Big Tech would want you to use its browser (not browser_s_) and indulge in the insane complexity of &quot;the web stack&quot; which guarantees its monopoly, but it doesn&#x27;t have to be that way for everyone. Maybe once more people realise the latter, the web can become mostly-browser-neutral again.
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bestcoder69over 3 years ago
We should invest even heavier into web∅, which is when you don’t even have a website. Can’t get lighter than that.
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czhu12over 3 years ago
I&#x27;ve never quite understood the gripe people have with modern web development. React took off in ~2015 and the only thing that has really changed about it is how you do state management (flux -&gt; redux -&gt; hooks).<p>Plenty of frontends still rely on jQuery which can easily be sprinkled into a frontend, and the API hasn&#x27;t really changed in nearly 20 years.<p>What is the author advocating that we adopt this html-only approach for? Just personal blogs? Is it really a problem on the internet that personal blogs have way too much Javascript and CSS and therefore we need to throw out javascript?<p>I would love to see someone try to build something even remotely complex or valuable without using Javascript and CSS. I would expect that if Banking portals, EHR&#x27;s, CRM&#x27;s (name any other service even moderately complex) were stitched together with a series of html documents and forms, customers wouldn&#x27;t be as excited about that.
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nerdponxover 3 years ago
I wrote my first grad student website in raw HTML. In Vi, on a Unix mainframe, over SSH.<p>It was fun, but I don&#x27;t blame developers for trying to make things more composable and reusable. I&#x27;m big on tools that let you build plain static HTML pages, but rendered from templated components.
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jzellisover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s amazing to me how many &quot;web developers&quot; don&#x27;t actually seem to know how to write pure html&#x2F;css anymore by hand. They rely on these gigantic frameworks to do literally everything.<p>Like a lot of Gen X&#x2F;Gen Y oldsters, I wrote my first web page in Notepad in 1995 or so and uploaded it to my ISP hosting, after undergoing a &quot;bootcamp&quot; that consisted of reading W3C specs, Netscape.com tutorials, going on Usenet, and viewing source on a bunch of other people&#x27;s pages, sitting all night on my grandfather&#x27;s Pentium desktop (because we dialed up to get online) and listening to Mine Inch Nails on headphones.<p>Someone in here points out that complexity produces friction that will drive consumers away. Good. Not all technology has to be a product you can pimp to a VC in an elevator. I love the idea of Web0, of building a new web that requires a bare minimum of engagement on the part of users rather than simply making everything as easy as possible.<p>There&#x27;s more than enough brightly lit malls in the metaverse, where everything is just a funnel to catch your attention or your money. But there&#x27;s also infinite space for simplicity and the digital equivalent of &quot;roughing it&quot;, of applying the concepts of appropriate technology to online interaction. Viva la Web0. :-)
trentprynnover 3 years ago
Funnily enough I recently did the same thing for my personal website[1][2]. Previously I had used create-react-app to build what was essentially some basic static HTML with styling and I took a step back and realized how insane it was that I had an entire build + deploy pipeline to show some basic information.<p>The website is currently 16.59KB transferred and it has the following - dark mode support - social media display support - basic, anonymous analytics using simpleanalytics<p>It&#x27;s hosted for free using GitHub pages and a push to master immediately makes the changes available on the internet. Additionally GitHub manages all of the SSL certs so I don&#x27;t even have to think about it. Compared to the SPAs I (and most WebDevs) write for work nowadays it was actually a breath of fresh air to take away so much!<p>[1] website: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;trentprynn.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;trentprynn.com&#x2F;</a> [2] source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;trentprynn&#x2F;trentprynn.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;trentprynn&#x2F;trentprynn.com</a>
toss1over 3 years ago
Totally cool to see this tip of HN!<p>For most things, it&#x27;s the way it should be.<p>Less really <i>IS</i> more<p>I deeply miss websites that -reliably- loaded faster than you could blink. The megatons of cruft that comes with even the simplest page, the dozens of remote code callouts that show up in NoScript (and the mere fact that it&#x27;s been for years prudent to run NoScript...), the slogging wait for pageloads.... It&#x27;d just a vast disappointment. And these awful load times and performance are on CAD-level laptops.<p>I left the industry 15+ years ago seeing the writing on the wall and hoping I was wrong - writing code had become like walking in quicksand - unable totrust the stacks of garbage underneath to behave as documented, and abstractions becoming increasingly purposeless. I&#x27;d hoped it&#x27;d get better, but as far as I can tell, it was a good move, when something like this is merely quaint.<p>The hardware industry has produced astonishing improvements every decade, and the software industry just continues to squander those improvements at an even faster rate, producing an ever-degrading experience.<p>Really sad.
julienreszkaover 3 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;motherfuckingwebsite.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;motherfuckingwebsite.com&#x2F;</a>
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cmerover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s not web0 without &lt;blink&gt; and &lt;marquee&gt;!
yayrover 3 years ago
just to be a bit picky - it technically has some CSS albeit in a style tag:<p>&lt;center style=&quot;font-size: 18px&quot;&gt;...<p>is it now web1?
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alphachlorideover 3 years ago
I think this website is a sales pitch for their patreon, which itself doesn&#x27;t seem to be doing anything meaningful to advocate for web0. A funding goal is to &quot;publish a guide on tapping the raw power of HTML&quot;. I mean, just google how to write HTML.<p>I do think we should be conservative about complexity in websites, but advocating for removing interactivity and styling (js&#x2F;css) seems too idealistic and simply contrarian. So I definitely think this is a good conversation starter, but not a serious goal.
bryanrasmussenover 3 years ago
I guess this is the webdev equivalent of meta commentary in the media where somebody doesn&#x27;t actually talk about anything other than what their reaction to it means.
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rchaudover 3 years ago
Bare HTML may as well be the internet equivalent of a .txt file.<p>Is it good enough for some people? Absolutely. Does it even remotely meet the preferences of the average web user? No.<p>This must be the 100th iteration of the &quot;motherf&#x27;ing website&#x27; manifesto I&#x27;ve seen. They all use default browser styling and system fonts. It&#x27;s easy to marvel at how fast the site loads when the page doesn&#x27;t even include so much as a JPG.
root_axisover 3 years ago
The thing being called web3 doesn&#x27;t seem mutually exclusive to what is being called web0 in this post. Might be a sign that web3 isn&#x27;t a great name for sites integrated with blockchain content. I know, I know, you can&#x27;t unsqueeze the toothpaste tube.
lsalvatoreover 3 years ago
Oh, it&#x27;s this thread again.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29552322" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29552322</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23228904" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23228904</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26740593" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26740593</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8024799" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8024799</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12691600" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12691600</a>
magicjoshover 3 years ago
To the author: you would have fun checking out IPFS. It&#x27;s a decentralized way to host your site. It&#x27;s still in its infancy, and slow...but your site will be plenty fast on IPFS. Check out fleek.co for an easy way to start hosting on IPFS.
oarsover 3 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand, how is this different to me just serving a plain HTML page with the latest Nginx Docker image and claiming we&#x27;re back to Web 0?<p>Is there something special about this page specifically e.g. not being hosted on a normal web server?
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de6u99erover 3 years ago
Web3 is a trojan horse. It&#x27;s about exchanging money into crypto currencies to pay those hosting the Web3.<p>I bet if we allow this to happen, most of Web3&#x27;s hosting will belong to a few, and they will finally have made us pay for using the web.
wheresmycraisinover 3 years ago
I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s anything wrong with more complex tooling, as long as the deliverable is simple.... I use a static site generator (11ty in my case, but there&#x27;s hundreds just like it) and, even though my node_modules is 81M, it produces clean html free of unnecessary js or css. Just like a modern digital artist might use photoshop&#x2F;illustrator to create a static jpeg.<p>Of course, you also have things like gatsby&#x2F;gridsome which are supposedly also &quot;static site generators&quot; but also ship ridiculous amounts of js to do ridiculous things like &quot;hydrate&quot; the client-side to a full spa.
zimbatmover 3 years ago
I wish browsers would render text&#x2F;markdown. It&#x27;s easy to write, theme, and host. I know it&#x27;s not the best text format out there but it&#x27;s reasonable to write and read for most cases.
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RF_Savageover 3 years ago
I recently also wrote my own page in bare html, in nano, on my shell account at the server, which I get s a member service to hobby club.<p>It delightfully old school and writing bare ugly html works okay for me, I can actully concentrate on the content instead of learning how to use and maintain a cms.<p>It is my main homepage and very portable if I ever need to change hosts for example. Its kainda like 2003 again for me, when I had a 100MHz AMD K5 box with 64mb ram and 1gb ide hdd serving my homepage over my parents adsl connection.<p>Too bad bare html looks a bit bad on mobile.
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0x0nyandesuover 3 years ago
I remember when web 2.0 became a thing it was more of a generic description of web design style and the advent of tech like ajax. Web 3 so far seems like astroturphed nonsense.
TurkishPoptartover 3 years ago
Inspected the page. What does this stuff do?<p>&gt;&lt;script type=&quot;text&#x2F;javascript&quot;&gt;window[&quot;_gaUserPrefs&quot;] = { ioo : function() { return true; } }&lt;&#x2F;script&gt;
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athenotover 3 years ago
A happy medium can still be had by including all the typesetting niceties in the same file, or maybe <i>one</i> extra included file. Still amazingly fast.
rootsudoover 3 years ago
Hey, I guess that&#x27;s why the 3 www&#x27;s in front of any website is for. For web3.0! web 2.0 is two w&#x27;s and one had none?
cableshaftover 3 years ago
I&#x27;m studying up on web3 but I also kinda miss web0, or at least a simple static site with some basic CSS and no javascript. More sites should go back to that.<p>Whenever I get around to making a personal site again, it will probably be compiled to a static site, even if I end up using a static site generating tool to allow for some templating.
sparrishover 3 years ago
Strange. I remember people using the shift key back in the web0 days to capitalize the first letter of a sentence.<p>Get off my lawn.
oblibover 3 years ago
I would offer the design of this page is elegant, but not &quot;beautiful&quot; and the difference is not necessarily subtle.<p>A poem can be elegant and beautiful.<p>A blog post yearning for web0? That&#x27;s a bit tougher to pull off when you compare it to modern web designs. That feels more like an imposter.
kingcharlesover 3 years ago
You&#x27;re wasting characters, &#x2F;&gt; is only a requirement of XHTML. You can just use &lt;br&gt; and it is valid.<p>Also, are HTML comments are allowed before the DOCTYPE technically? (this is the kind of tomfoolery that escapes unit testing on browsers)
f0e4c2f7over 3 years ago
I was expecting plain text. Don&#x27;t be shy. Browsers will serve up basically anything.
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cookingoilsover 3 years ago
To all those web0&#x2F;HTML heads out there. Here&#x27;s a song for you: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;html.energy&#x2F;pages&#x2F;imagine&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;html.energy&#x2F;pages&#x2F;imagine&#x2F;</a><p>Happy New Year!
pabeover 3 years ago
Taking a look at &quot;web0&quot; again actually is what the Jamstack is doing. Do static rendering and only load JS where &#x2F; when necessary.
j45over 3 years ago
If everyone started at Web0, it would be a lot easier to understand (and question) how some of the things are so complex in web development today.
yaloginover 3 years ago
What is web0? Looks like I am out of the loop here.
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chanandler_bongover 3 years ago
Get off my lawn.<p>&quot;It&#x27;s so cool is just works&quot;?! OP sounds shocked that you don&#x27;t need 50MB+ of scripts and CSS to serve a webpage.
MatthiasWandelover 3 years ago
And yet it has stuff that wouldn&#x27;t be recognized by early browsers, like https, or the viewport meta tag (useful for mobile)
jdubnerover 3 years ago
Wait. Uppercase wasn&#x27;t used for the personal pronoun &quot;I&quot; or to begin sentences in web0?<p>Not cool.
peanut_wormover 3 years ago
whats wrong with css
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jonathankorenover 3 years ago
This isn&#x27;t a Gopher site.
simonebrunozziover 3 years ago
I made my first professional web0 age 22 years ago, in 1999. It was amazing.
Commodore63over 3 years ago
Nobody&#x27;s going to get rich from shilling existing tech.<p>Crypto bagholders need new marks.
ape4over 3 years ago
Back in the day html was &lt;CENTER&gt;UPPERCASE&lt;&#x2F;CENTER&gt;
magicjoshover 3 years ago
IPFS is still super slow, but can work well for raw HTML sites like this. For example <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;vitalik.eth.link" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;vitalik.eth.link</a> is hosted on IPFS. It&#x27;s a simple text blog and is pretty fast.
wy35over 3 years ago
If I had a dollar every time one of these &quot;javascript bad, raw html good&quot; websites&#x2F;rants gets posted here, I&#x27;d have enough money to buy the entirety of YC just so I could ban such posts.
frozenportover 3 years ago
needs more blink tag
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panicover 3 years ago
An HTTPS URL makes this more like web1.5.
remramover 3 years ago
A site with no content and no feature. That&#x27;s cool.
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fleddrover 3 years ago
Both web3 and web2 are misnomers that sends discussions into every possible direction.<p>They are misnomers because of the word &quot;web&quot;. The original meaning of &quot;web&quot; was for it to be one of many applications on the underlying internet. Another application could be FTP, telnet, Gopher.<p>As such, web2 is an imprecise term because it is a conceptual change not restricted to web technology. It&#x27;s the internet becoming a two-way street, rather than mostly read-only for the typical user. When you post some content using a mobile app, that&#x27;s &quot;web2&quot;, even if not a single web technology is used end-to-end.<p>And to add to the confusion, &quot;web3&quot; is specifically a response to the 2nd phase of &quot;web2&quot;: the centralization of content discovery and monetization. The well known big tech gate keepers that slurp up all content, your private data, put ads on them, and this way become filthy rich whilst content producers get nothing. Some content producers may get a piece of the pie, but terms may change or they may just kick you off the platform. Not even by a human, by AI. And they won&#x27;t even bother to tell you why. Likewise, app store owners can just take 30% of your business, dictate how you do business with them, and get sole access to your customers&#x27; data. Gatekeepers may also arbitrarily decide what is allowed speech and what isn&#x27;t.<p>I could go on, but the issues that come from &quot;web2&quot; monopolies are well known, and nothing new. Most people are in agreement that they are serious issues, all the way up to governments.<p>As such, it&#x27;s sad that a movement that has the potential to make somewhat of a meaningful change, namely &quot;web3&quot;, is met with such ridicule. Just because it has the trigger word &quot;crypto&quot; associated with it.<p>It&#x27;s truly anti-intellectual and lazy to not even acknowledge the problems with &quot;web2&quot; and to just decide in a heartbeat that &quot;web3&quot; is a scam. Because you read the word &quot;crypto&quot;.<p>Meanwhile, &quot;crypto&quot; adds 100M new users every year, and accelerating. VCs, including the ones behind this website, are throwing everything and the kitchen sink at it. Whilst you laugh at NFTs, musicians, car manufacturers, event organizers and sports teams are embracing it. Crypto-assets backed gaming is about the enter the hype phase. Facebook is throwing tens of billions into the metaverse with the idea to make it compatible with leading blockchains. Twitter is integrating Bitcoin payments and verified NFTs, as well as working on some decentralized social network.<p>At what point do you stop to wonder...maybe something&#x27;s up with this crypto thing? I&#x27;m not here to sell you crypto, as clearly this community has made up its mind and thinks it&#x27;s about &quot;too much javascript&quot;. I&#x27;m here to tell you that you dramatically underestimate the speed at which it develops, is normalized and becoming mainstream.<p>Be skeptical, but not a fool.