I'm currently in a Master program (data science: maths, maths, maths and maths, oh and maths). I'm almost 50 years old. I was very happy to read that article because it doesn't mention a little detail : age. The sort of effort the author has done is really something he should be proud of, but at 29 your brain is still quite up to to the task. At almost 50 (+kids, +family to keep care of (even if family is incredibly supportive)) it's a totally different story. If you want to be able to learn the courses correctly (that is, you don't just try to barely pass the courses, you look for A grades), then you're in for a ride. Your brain has slowed down by a factor of at least 2. All in all, where a student spend 3 days on a task (praticals, studying), you spend about 8.
So it's very difficult to do that with a full time job. Such an effort makes me tired very quickly.<p>But, as the author said, doing something you choose, something that makes a better you, something where what you do is valued (instead of "soft skills") is extremely enjoyable, although exhausting and stressful... I'd do it again, but at maximum 35 years old :-)
I’ve done this. It was really hard. Also the best thing I’ve ever done.<p>I had to be very ruthless with my main job. Working strictly 9-5. This really annoyed my boss and I almost got fired, but I just powered through and held my ground.<p>I had to work every evening for about 3 hours. I developed the habit of working even when very tired. Turns out you can do calculus even when exhausted.<p>I had to be very disciplined in saying ‘no’ to nearly all social events. (But still saw my girlfriend/now wife).<p>This whole experience was great fun and I would recommend it if you like learning new stuff. Especially if you want to change career.
For those debating starting a master’s program, the institution makes a big difference about 2 main factors. Required cost (which has been spoken about by multiple people so far), and required effort (which no one has touched on yet, and the reason I’m writing this).<p>While effort isn’t best depicted as a single value, some attributes of effort that I found making the act of getting a MS particularly easier and more enjoyable involves how professors bend to the life of students, rather than students to professors.<p>For homework this looks something like how common and easier it is to get an extension, extra help, adjustment of assignment/test, and so on. For schoolwork this looks something like whether class attendance is required, class sessions and professor office hours are time/location specific, and so on.<p>The original article talks about someone that made the decision to do school in person and then about how there were issues when it became remote. I opted to take an online program offered at a standard institution in hopes of increased flexibility and the same piece of paper at the end.<p>All my classes were pre-recorded lessons I could watch at my convenience. We would complete assignments and talk about them in a comment thread (usually required to do one OP and 2 comments per week), and also have larger projects etc. in groups. On about half of my classes I asked for and was always given extensions of anywhere between 30 days to complete and assignment to 3 extra months to finish 80% of the class I haven’t even touched yet due to increased demand at work.<p>As a side comment I’ll say you miss 100% of the extensions you don’t ask for, so if you ever feel stressed for time give it a shot and ask for an extension before the official due date or even on the day it’s due. Especially in higher education, I’ve never heard of a professor not working with a student. At the end of they day they have a financial incentive to keep you in the program.
Completed OMSCS in Fall 2020 - while working in a startup & raising young kid.<p>Was brutal, but worth it! Thanks to Georgia Tech. for creating this program!!<p>Program link: <a href="https://omscs.gatech.edu" rel="nofollow">https://omscs.gatech.edu</a>
My wife is doing a CS master's, after having done another master's during the lockdown. I'm looking over her shoulder, as I did with my brother a few years ago. It's been interesting to see how she thinks about algorithms and coding from a fresh start.<p>As a longtime coder I've found it interesting to dive back into some basic algorithms. Something about how it is taught to students makes it harder than just learning it as an already experienced dev. I find I can gloss over a lot of the stuff, but there are still details that I don't understand.<p>One thing that helps a lot is modern learning resources, basically websites and videos about the same topics, done by someone else. It's quite different from when I was in uni and you were stuck with the people you had around you and the same old books. Now if I don't quite understand insertion sort, there's a variety of explanations.<p>For those interested there's a number of UK universities that offer a remote master's. Takes a year full time and two part time, and you can often pay by the module. You might also be able to use the virus situation to get a "non-remote" master's remotely, which my wife managed to do last year.
I did my bachelors and masters degree in cooperation with different companys in germany. Over here it is quite normal that companys have open positions for cooperative degrees.<p>For most it comes down to some evening courses or courses crapted together on a few days so that the other days are available for part time working.<p>At my university we had it a little different. For Bachelors it was:<p>- 1. Semester: Studying (Full time)<p>- 2. Semester: Studying (Full time)<p>- 3. Semester: Working with writing a paper on some work project specific stuff to gather some more Credits<p>- 4. Semester: Studying (Full time)<p>- 5. Semester: Working with writing a paper on some work project specific stuff to gather some more Credits<p>- 6. Semester: Studying (Full time)<p>- 7. Semester: Working with writing a paper on some work project specific stuff to gather some more Credits (3 mo) + 3 months bachelors degree (most of the time based on the stuff you worked on before)<p>The Semester breaks we needed to work full time but also needed to take our 30 days of vacation in that time.<p>So I think we got the best of both worlds. Hands on experience on the work and full time studying on campus.<p>In the companys I joined since then I'm heavily opting to get some cooperative students. Usually by the time of the 4th semester they are up to speed and help a lot in the 8 months they are there.
I did this at Boston University (night school at MET) over 4 years. 10 total classes, they do 3 semesters a year, and I took 2 semesters off. Overall I liked it, solid program, assisted me later when the credential helped validate me to hiring managers and then later to investors. It also forced me to study deeper and become much more serious about the foundational knowledge.<p>The most hilarious part to me was that I did my undergrad at BU and it was ~$200k total over 4 years for a CS degree pre-2010 (BU has since gone parabolic in cost and is now over $75k per year!). My entire masters at night was ~$30k from 2012-2016, and I get the same institutional signal on my resume.<p>Why? Grad students taking night classes have to typically pay out of pocket, and want value for their money. Undergraduates, especially the enormous quantity of non-STEM majors, are not thinking rationally and take out huge debt for an experience.[0][1] This colors my opinion on why the government should not guarantee unlimited undergraduate debt - the cost problem would be solved overnight if students had to actually pay their way.<p>[0] BU has an indoor lazy river that they try very hard to de-emphasize and keep images off the internet of. However it does exist as a "recreation pool" <a href="https://legitcampus.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/hey-boston-university-is-this-lazy-river-legit/" rel="nofollow">https://legitcampus.wordpress.com/2013/06/01/hey-boston-univ...</a><p>[1] BU is a school full of rich foreigners and trust funders. When I graduated (granted it was shortly after the iPhone was invented) the total number of CS students graduating out of a total class of almost 4000 students was 30! 30 whole CS majors out of 4000! The communications school was something like 1000 students. CS classes were in the basement of the math building, and the ceiling was falling down, pipes were banging, and I'm positive asbestos was rampant. A rich donor has now funded a new enormous CS building, but the capital cost will continue to add onto BU's enormous tuition as it expands ever further into Kenmore and Brookline <a href="https://www.bu.edu/articles/2021/update-on-bus-center-for-computing-data-sciences/" rel="nofollow">https://www.bu.edu/articles/2021/update-on-bus-center-for-co...</a>
I was in the same research lab as the author, but from a different school (BU). When I found out that most of my peers were also doing their master's part time while working, I wished I could do that. But as an international student, there are a lot of restrictions. I had to do it full time (3-4 classes per semester), and I could only work 20 hours part time on campus, usually as a TA and/or research assistant. I did 3 jobs to max that out since most jobs only required you to work 6-8 hours a week. I could only do one internship for my entire degree. My total cost for 2 years was $117,889. BU did not have scholarships or aid for international students, because saying you need aid is admitting that you lied on the visa application. Then I had to pay $7800 to work on my thesis over the summer, which I chose not to finish because I wanted to start working earlier. To make up for lack of work experience, I pretty much did open source contribs 40 hours a week while working on my thesis and TAing. There was a period of 10 weeks where I was putting in 80-100 hours between school and unpaid work.<p>It was still worth it in the end. Similar experience coming from no CS undergrad. There were about 3 good classes that were very valuable, like Algorithms, Cloud Computing, and Embedded Systems. The rest was not that great, especially with remote. When I think about ROI compared to a bootcamp, it's a tough one. Really successful bootcamp grads are already self-selecting going into the bootcamp, same with the really smart students in my master's program. But going to a master's program seems to have a better ROI just based on quality of instruction/institution alone.<p>6 months after graduation and my pay bump has more than covered it. I was feeding the master's program cash cow, so I think of it as I'm helping fund my US and green card classmates' master's. Most of my peers had 50% or full ride scholarships.
Congratulations, well done!<p>Did that a few years ago, started when I was 47, completed with 50.
Was easier for me.
Distance Learning University in Germany.
And I had the opportunity to do it at work.
One could call it a side project.<p>Since about two years I try my hand at a bachelor in mathematics at another Distance Learning University in Germany.
Guess I will pull that stunt around 2025.
Assuming that you could have landed the job at Google without studying part-time (could you?), I’m a bit baffled by your experience. Unless your degree really propels you in your career (read: your employer values academic degrees over experience), couldn’t you have learned those skills without putting up with the cost and timely investment of formally enrolling for a master’s degree? I’d even go as far as to say: in your late 20s/early 30s, it pays off more to put in the hours at work and to start a family in what’s left of your days. Companies like Google ought to offer great ways to learn “on the job”.
> Coming into computer work without a solid CS background meant that there were many gaps in my knowledge.<p>Important note: the author seems to not have a CS background. A solid undergrad CS experience covers a lot of the pluses mentioned.
I couldn't do it. From 2008 to 2011, I was 3 credits and half a thesis paper short, had to quit for my health. I had lost too much weight, down to 150 lbs at 6'3", I was falling asleep at work and not meeting expectations. It was horrendous. Props to anyone who can make it work. And to those who were bailed out by the Bank of Mom and Dad, a big fuck you.
I completed an MS in software engineering while I was working. I ultimately consider it to have been a waste of time and money. I think it gave my resume a slight boost early in my career but I don't think it matters much now.
Doing a part time masters was a huge mistake I made in my early 20s. Sure, I learned a lot but I lost a lot of time and picked up a few grey hairs. It really took a toll on my family and social life. It has not benefited my career at all, which is why I tell people to avoid this route unless they have a non-comp Sci bachelors and even then to consider doing a second bachelors instead.<p>Despite interviewing a great deal since then and getting a few different positions no one in industry has ever really cared about it, except to call my background 'academic' in a vaugely negative manner at some smaller shops. I make very comparable salary to my peers who just have their bachelors. I usually recommend people not to go this route unless they just want to learn for the sake of learning... which I did, but I thought it would help career wise too and it really hasnt. Honestly I think there are a number of people in startups who will actively hold an MS against you, seeing it as a sign of failure. I have outright been told when interviewing that it is being held against me, because successful people don't need one.
100% agree on "where did my in-person interactions go" but for a different reason. Almost all of my peer group (working professionals) did the program remotely. Instead, the on-campus student body was mostly teenage undergraduates and international students with no work experience.<p>Also agree on "where did my money go". I've always assumed a huge amount of it went to administration and groundskeeping.
I'm middle age and have begun to feel as if I'm being surpassed by younger engineers who've had more relevant CS and engineering curriculums in the 15 years since I got my bachelors.<p>I enrolled in a masters of CS (online) at a prestigious university and was able to complete the first 3 credit course. I enjoyed it and did well, but ended up dropping the next course. My thoughts were:<p>* At the pace I was going, it'd take at least 5 years to finish (3 credits / semester). While working full time, it meant that at least half my weekend was spent on course work, and often times the other weekend day and a few evenings within the work-week were also. Looking at the next 5 years of my life being consumed so much seemed daunting.<p>* Tuition cost is insane these days, even without all the on-campus fees, expensive text books, etc. The masters would have ended up costing about $60K by the time I finished.<p>* From a career perspective, I'm not sure how much the it is worth. The software industry just does not value higher academic / professional degrees as much as others, where its often times absolutely required (e.g. law, medicine, academia itself, etc).<p>* From a financial perspective, it seems that grinding Leetcode and "studying" interviewing would be a far better use of time. A masters might end up providing a $10K / year salary bump for the remaining 15-20 years of my career. A FAANG position might provide $100K+ / year increase... or more now that FAANG salaries are hitting $500K+, while typical F500 engineering are still stuck in the $150K range - a true bimodal situation where Leetcode and interviewing skills have a 100X ROI vs a masters.<p>Though, I wonder if in 10 years the masters would have brought me more personal satisfaction (accomplishment, prestige, etc) than the extra money (assuming I even follow the Leetcode/FAANG path to big bucks).
I've almost done this too but I saw that people having full time in masters or researcher in a lab more successful than people doing part-time masters as me. They have more time to do research. They produce more because it's their main job, they can go deeper. They collaborate more with researchers that also broader their research and network in the area. It can be the hardest thing to write a paper from research idea to result alone or with an advisor which is the advisor only will help you with the theory writing.
The one attractive reason for pursuing a MS in compsci would be access to high-end equipment and the opportunity to work for people who were both (1) skilled in the use and theory of such equipment and (2) actually interested in serving as mentors for people just learning the ropes. Definitely a 'do your diligent research on the program you're interested in' situation, though, to see if that's the case.<p>Having gone through one academic program (molecular bio/biochemistry at both BS and MS level), that was the real value, i.e. I was lucky enough to get and keep a undergrad job in a cutting-edge research laboratory and that really taught me more of real value than all my classes combined, and opened doors to future graduate research as well.<p>Now I'm learning programming and compsci, having gotten a bit burnt out on underpaid lab tech work, and having gone through an intense year of school up through the basic data structures, algorithms, architecture and assembly, with networking and web programming on the side... kind of doubt that much more schooling of this type (online course work, etc.) will be all that beneficial. The cost factor alone is very off-putting. A two-year hands on program in cutting-edge robotics hardware and software development, though, that would be pretty worthwhile I think.<p>P.S. Age isn't that relevant, I don't really feel any dumber now trying to learn new material and develop skills than I did in my early 20s. It's always an uphill struggle. Organization is much better now so that helps, and my mental flops don't seem noticeably different as far as I can tell.
Doing a Master's in Mathematics while working full+ time as an engineering contractor (27 yo)<p>1. Unlike a B.S., having money is a gamechanger in terms of QOL<p>2. It's forced me to actually start time managing. Charitably, I'd always been a shamelessly mediocre student, and this has started to change.<p>3. I wish I would've done this earlier (~5 years out of school), but work experience has definitely been a positive.<p>4. Instructor goal setting has been worth every penny; I shotgunned a bunch of half-baked ideas self-learning, but I admit I need a guide; there's too many weeds to get lost among, and it takes a lot of work to get some topics to sink in. Without understanding what/why/how things are worth learning, I would typically lose interest once the going got too tough to entertain passing interest.<p>5. I don't have my heart set on any particular use for the degree, but it does seem to be a door-opener even as a student.
I did the same. My schedule was:<p>- leave home at 7:30am to arrive to work at 9am<p>- work from 9am to 16 (so 7h, my company allowed me to do so with the corresponding pay decrease)<p>- university from 16 to 18 (sometimes 16 to 19)<p>- back at home between 20 and 21<p>- go to bed at around midnight<p>I did this for a year (I was 25 years old). It was hard. Main reason to do it was: don't lose a year of work experience, don't lose a year of salary.
I dropped out of college in 1993. I’ve been in industry since and empty nesting has me thinking about going back to school. Are there programs that will give me any credit for time served? Not a full degree obviously but maybe fast forward a couple years in the process.<p>I’m thinking a 30 year old transcript with a ~2.0 GPA isn’t going to move the needle much.
Uff, I started working part-time pretty soon after starting my bachelors and have studied and worked part-time for many years. It's terrible. Worst of both worlds. Now I quit my job and trying to finish my master's thesis.
What surprises me is, that he took so few classes. This seems to be different in every country (note: am in Europe). When I did a semester abroad, I got way more credits per class. Here all the classes are either 3 or 6 credits and you need 120 (30 for thesis).<p>Anyway, I do like the academic side of things and so many topics that I would have never gotten into (compilers, formal methods...), so I wouldn't want to miss it. Just wish I had finished sooner...
Did my master's full time while working full time. Never had better grades before or after, but sacrificed a lot and nothing stuck. Can't remember barely anything I learned during my master's.
>When I got my first real programming job at the small startup, they hired me as an inexperienced junior frontend engineer who would be willing to learn fast, and the classes helped show that I was serious about learning more. This helped me transition away from doing some development work at the tiny non-tech company to being a Real Engineer at a real (albeit small) tech company.<p>How does someone go from junior experience to a job at Google? Are they really hiring "normal" devs that haven't gone to the big schools?
I’m in my mid-30s and have a CompSci Associates from a now defunct for-profit school. At 18, I was very much in a rush just to get into the industry, and this was a path that got me there by 20.<p>While I have a well paying job, part of me always wonders about going back and getting a better degree. I wouldn’t even know where to start. The article gives me a little hope for the idea however.
Those costs are amazing. I just compared two state universities I'm familiar with, and the fees are vastly different - but the schools are ranked similarly. These are relatively low ranked. Heck, I just compared to a different top 10 state school, and it is cheaper than one of the no-rank schools.<p>I guess it all comes down to which state you live in.
I did it as well. Finished when I was 34. At that time I had no kids and was working 36 hours. Wasn't that hard. I can believe it would be very hard today. Kids, busy work. Its hard to find even 1 hour of free time a day. So conclusion: do it before getting kids :)
I did exactly this, starting when I was 30. It was a <i>lot</i> of work and it was made worse by starting a family in the middle. That extended things by a couple of years. But it was worth it, salary and position-wise.
Great to read about your experience and challenges. I'm currently doing a part-time Masters in Software Development while working. A lot of what you said resonates with me.