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Why not anchor earnings into homesteading?

14 pointsby Thebothersumanover 3 years ago
Why aren't tech/coders anchoring earnings into agroforestry/agriculture/homesteading? often youthful, financially stable and exhausted from screen activities it seems the ideal marriage.

12 comments

codingdaveover 3 years ago
Some of us are. I spent 8 years on a small 3 acre homestead learning the ropes, and we moved to a 40 acre property last spring. Now that we are settled in, I&#x27;m planning out the vision for the next 3-5 years to build up everything we want to do here.<p>But that also answers your question of why not - who in their right mind wants to spend all their free time and energy for years just to learn skills and build out your vision? Even I, while actively doing it, do it because my wife likes it. If not for that, I would not be doing this either.<p>At the same time, the more we expand broadband internet to all rural areas, the more there can be a partnership between one person who does the tech work to pay the bills, while the other person does the physical work around the home. Not all couples are going to be interested, but such a setup at least helps ease the financial burden of such hobbies. After all, home-grown veggies from your homestead are both free and at the same time the most expensive produce you&#x27;ll ever buy.
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anduru_hover 3 years ago
The way this question is worded makes it seem like it&#x27;s so easy to go into agriculture &#x2F; homesteading...there is a wealth of knowledge you have to have to have to do it right, it&#x27;s not just buying land, plants and watering them. And more often than not, that knowledge is not readily available online, and comes with time and immersion.<p>Source: from a rural area
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humblefactoryover 3 years ago
Another thing that hasn&#x27;t been addressed completely below is the challenge of agriculture being an activity where investment needs to be made in large chunks, at somewhat unexpencted times. The OP question implies that homesteading is like purchasing shares of stock or crypto, when as folks have mentioned here, investments tend to be things like land in 10 acre scale increments (which is a big chunk of money wherever you are) and things like equipment, seasonal labor and seed&#x2F;seedling trees&#x2F;breeding stock, which can be as in the thousands to tens of thousands (or much more!), depending on what your plans are. All of these costs tend to be big - maybe bigger than you have to spend from your work income that year. But they may have to be spent to participate in the season that year. Often, it doesn&#x27;t make economic sense to plant 1&#x2F;10 as much seed, or graft over 1&#x2F;10 of your orchard, since there are some fixed costs that don&#x27;t reduce. And in some cases (like combines) there just aren&#x27;t good alternatives to the big guns for smaller farms - that&#x27;s a reason you don&#x27;t see many homesteaders growing cool ancient grain varieties, because it doesn&#x27;t make economic sense to harvest them by hand, and you can&#x27;t get a teeny tiny combine easily.<p>Obviously it&#x27;s not impossible - if you can do it, do it. We need more creative, small farmers more than just about anything else (in the US especially!). But just don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s like going online and putting 20% of your paycheck into Coinbase.
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nicbouover 3 years ago
Personally, I travel a lot. I can barely keep plants alive when I&#x27;m gone, so an homestead is not feasible.<p>I don&#x27;t want to commit to the constant effort homesteading demands. I can currently drop everything and leave at a moment&#x27;s notice. I can work remotely for as long as needed. A homestead would tie me to a place.<p>I also like living close to the city and its variety. I don&#x27;t like the areas where homesteading is possible.
giantg2over 3 years ago
It&#x27;s hard to turn a good profit with small scale agriculture today. One has to do it for the love of it, or self sufficiency like homesteading.<p>The biggest issue is land and location. Good land is expensive and it&#x27;s extraordinarily expensive in the areas where many if the highly compensated devs live. Remember that the median US dev salary is around $110k. That doesn&#x27;t provide much land. The ones who do have the money would have to enjoy it more than alternative lifestyles that may be more attractive (bigger house, fancier stuff, vacations), as the compensation would be a relative pittance.<p>I&#x27;m a beekeeper, garden, and grow mushrooms. I would love land but can&#x27;t afford it.
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BjoernKWover 3 years ago
Tying yourself to a location creates a hard dependency on local circumstances and conditions, specifically policies and politics.<p>Only since fairly recently have people in the tech industry been able to make a living independent of their location and the place they live in particular. Intentionally giving up that privilege again is a trade-off not many will be willing to make.
mikewarotover 3 years ago
Another route would be to get into machining. Like in agriculture, it&#x27;s very important to be aware of the potential for losing a limb in milliseconds if you don&#x27;t respect the tools. You also end up with useful stuff that you can see, instead of commits to a git somewhere.
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sentientforestover 3 years ago
I have been working remotely as a software developer and building out homestead and growing systems since 2014.<p>We left the SF Bay area and moved to the Sierra foothills in California. Close enough to drive back for work if needed, but where (at the time) housing (and land) was much more affordable.<p>I only have two acres. I&#x27;m not doing anything commercial. Our home was someone else&#x27;s retirement dream originally - custom built home, basement, small vineyard of a little over 100 vines, fruit trees.<p>In a good year, we can yield 80-100 bottles of zinfandel, made in a &quot;natural winemaking&quot; style. After years of trying to do too much, my only real goal this year is to get my first chickens going.<p>To answer the question in the original post, &quot;why aren&#x27;t..?&quot;, I know quite a few reasons, having been doing it myself.<p>To summarize and expand on what others have already said in other comments -<p>It is hard to monetize or turn a profit at it. This is 100% true especially when you compare earnings for your software work vs your intensive manual labor. You probably have to being doing it for the love of it and the for love of self sufficiency. If you are thinking about anchoring earnings in a quantitative sense, consider shifting your thinking to all the qualitative aspects instead.<p>I agree with another comment that much of our industry is probably in a demographic where they don&#x27;t want to do physically taxing work. Think about how different physical work can tax your body compared to just exercising - if you go to a gym, jog, etc. you can have a routine you specifically design to not overexert yourself. If you order 40 bareroot trees, you&#x27;re going to have to get them all in the ground within a limited time frame, or lose them. You may be reaching out at odd angles, over-using specific muscles, getting injured, etc. in this type of work.<p>Also agree that it is not easy! There is significant domain-specific knowledge you will need to commit to learning, in addition to keeping up with the latest tech trends. Probably nearly everyone who has grown any significant number of plants or raised animals has lost plenty. It takes knowledge and experience to get it right. And lots of knowledge is location specific - different parts of the world have different limiting factors, whether it&#x27;s summer heat, winter cold, short growing season, high winds, predator&#x2F;pest&#x2F;disease species. You really do have to find it interesting and put in the time learning. At this point my mind is an encyclopedia of plant knowledge compared to most but I&#x27;m still learning about new species every year.<p>I&#x27;ll add that, in order to get out, afford some space, etc. you&#x27;ll likely end up in a rural area. Be fully prepared to get used to going without some of your city comforts. I can&#x27;t get an Uber driver to pick me up at my house and take me downtown for a night out. Last summer I heard a Bay Area person joking to a friend, &quot;so, been to all two restaurants out here?&quot; Not quite fair, there are some really good places to eat and significantly more than two, but absolutely way fewer options than any large city or suburb. And lots less going on in terms of night life.<p>It can take some looking to find the right balance of modern amenities and rural charm. We have a modern hospital, a new cancer center, lots of grocery stores, a few small downtown areas, and three or four farmers markets, but a residential population a quarter the size of the suburb of the Bay Area we left spread out over an area significantly greater in size.<p>To build on this though, offer some good points and illustrate how I wish more of us would do this...<p>It is incredibly rewarding to see a tree you planted yourself go from palm size to twice your own height.<p>Local and home production can hedge against supply chain instability. It&#x27;s a great pastime and&#x2F;or profession and ideally more of us would be doing it. In an increasingly uncertain world, leveling up in good old-fashioned self-reliance is quite comforting and enjoyable.<p>Importing your tech worker salary to a region with few employers and less opportunity can make an impact. Tip your servers generously. Shop at local businesses. Hire local contractors and professionals. You might make a big difference. Keep in mind that your tech salary alone could easily be a few times the median household income of the region.<p>And just... be closer to nature. Observe the cycles of the seasons. Get used to seeing deer every day and accept that they want to eat everything you grow. Enjoy the less frequent sight of hawks and foxes or even a bobcat. Notice how many mushrooms sprout all over after the rains. Go a week, or more, without needing to leave your property. Realize that everything around you is part of nested, hierarchical self-organizing systems. Accept that human beings are a natural part of this world and at our best we can be caretakers of all that is alive.
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carapaceover 3 years ago
There used to be a Permaculture Credit Union.<p>I think something like that would be workable? People invest into the CU which then makes loans (with due diligence) to people who are or want to develop agroforestry&#x2F;agriculture&#x2F;homesteading.
cercatrovaover 3 years ago
One reason is that those who like to work with their mind (so to speak) with minimal physical activity are probably not the demographic that are also interested in a physically taxing job like agriculture.
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fred_is_fredover 3 years ago
Where the is available land there are not a lot of jobs, and where there is available super cheap land there is either no internet, no water, or both.
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jbc1over 3 years ago
So I can&#x27;t speak to the putting earnings in to or being financially stable because I&#x27;m a broke student self learning software development while bleeding savings. I have however been looking for casual work &quot;getting my hands dirty&quot; as you put it. Something physical and outdoors to unplug while I earn some money, and there&#x27;s either basically none or its not listed on regular job boards.<p>This has been at a time where Omicron is ripping through my country[0] to the point where there&#x27;s apparently such massive staff shortages that businesses are having to temporarily close because either they or key suppliers don&#x27;t have enough staff to run. Possibly the greatest employee shortage in decades and I cant find anyone who needs manual labour.<p>I believe the shortage is there. At least as much as it&#x27;s possible for such a thing to exist and not just mean that wages are too low. But my nerdy ass can&#x27;t find the dirty hands stuff. Coming from a background in sales I know I could start lining up sales job interviews today if I wanted to go back in to that because I have people I can reach out to. Coming from software sales specifically and also just having good friends who are experienced software developers I&#x27;m confident I will be able to line up interviews once I and they feel I&#x27;m ready. But for getting my hands dirty? I don&#x27;t know anyone. I&#x27;m sure there are people nearby who are wishing they had someone to lug fence posts or throw bags of potatoes, but they&#x27;re not posting on job boards. They&#x27;re mentioning it to people they know, which doesn&#x27;t include me.<p>This is relevant because generally step one to starting a business is working in that kind of business. Maybe not when that just involves coding up a software product yourself on your weekends but definitely so when buying physical assets and new skill sets is involved. You spend time as a barista before you drop bank on buying a cafe. Or at least you should. I can&#x27;t imagine farming is any different. In fact it&#x27;s probably far more important. You can burn yourself if you don&#x27;t know what you&#x27;re doing as a barista. You can kill yourself in a hundred different ways if you don&#x27;t know what you&#x27;re doing as a farmer. Or just ruin your land or tractor, or kill your livestock or find out you&#x27;ve had them walking around in pain this entire time for X reason you didn&#x27;t know to check for.<p>I&#x27;m not sure there is a fix to this because it&#x27;s the same root cause as much bigger employment issues than software developers not getting a chance to take a break doing some physical work. Hiring decent people is hard and relying on referrals from mutually known third parties is the best tool there is for making it easier. Labour is the greatest expense for any tech company (except Netflix?). Any efficiency gain they can get there is far more important than shaving the equivalent percent off their compute needs. And the best they&#x27;ve got is still asking employees for referrals, paying employees for referrals, and weighting referrals heavily in the interview process. I don&#x27;t blame the guy who needs someone to throw sacks on&#x2F;off a truck a few times a week for not bothering to post on indeed and instead just letting it be known amongst friends and family that he could use a hand until someone offers up a nephew. I&#x27;m certain it gets better results and saves him a lot of headache. I know it did for me the times I&#x27;ve been in a position to hire people.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.worldometers.info&#x2F;coronavirus&#x2F;country&#x2F;australia&#x2F;#graph-active-cases-total" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.worldometers.info&#x2F;coronavirus&#x2F;country&#x2F;australia&#x2F;...</a>
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