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Royal Society cautions against censorship of scientific misinformation online

1016 pointsby steelstrawover 3 years ago

55 comments

finite_jestover 3 years ago
Based. Nullius in verba [1]. The whitewashing of censorship is accelerating the erosion of trust in the institutions, and it&#x27;s refreshing to see a long-standing institution take a bold stance.<p>[1]: <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nullius_in_verba" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nullius_in_verba</a>
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s1artibartfastover 3 years ago
I see the root cause of all this debate as a failure in scientific communication.<p>When it comes to complex scientific decisions with significant impacts on the public, nuanced and detailed justifications are required. Instead, we often get simple declarations written by PR departments at juvenile reading level. This spawns chaotic and poorly conducted debate in all walks of life.<p>What is required is a robust and transparent framework for honest analyses of topics. For example, if the CDC has a specific recommendation, They should provide an outline of the arguments, counter-arguments, assumptions, and supporting data for each part.<p>It seems that the status quo is to completely ignore any arguments against a given recommendation. This suffocates any honest discussion in the crib. It also suggests to some that the justifications are not robust enough to survive the light of day. If you cant show your work, people will be skeptical that you did it all.<p>This is applicable to any science based public policy, but especially obvious to covid policy.
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throwaway22032over 3 years ago
The issue that plagues us is a lack of trust in long-standing societal authorities.<p>We can&#x27;t follow the entire scientific proof chain for every piece of information we encounter, because we don&#x27;t have time.<p>So we rely on authority to some extent, whether that be peer review, government, independent bodies, etc.<p>We need to be able to trust that these bodies are telling us the truth and aren&#x27;t seeking to mislead us. Because when we start to doubt them, we then inevitably elect alternative bodies, simply due to limited thinking capacity&#x2F;time - as explained above it&#x27;s impossible to do otherwise, no-one derives from first principles every opinion they hold.<p>The best way, _overall_, to convince someone to do something, is by clearly explaining to them the positives and negatives and letting them come to their own conclusion.<p>It doesn&#x27;t always work, and there are specific situations (e.g. someone is holding a gun to your face) in which the cost&#x2F;benefit analysis is very different - in such a situation, the short term is all that exists, the long term effect of misplaced trust is irrelevant - you simply have to neutralize them.<p>But in general, I&#x27;m absolutely sure that education over coercion is the correct approach for society.<p>Because if you force them, sure, you&#x27;ve got a short term win, at the long term cost of trust. What is the long term cost of lost trust?
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WalterBrightover 3 years ago
I remember when the government and scientific consensus informed me that margarine was good for me. For decades.<p>Who knows what damage that has done to my internals.
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DoreenMicheleover 3 years ago
From a social psychology perspective, censorship is known to increase interest in whatever you ban or try to withhold. Censorship also interferes with educating people and helping them improve their understanding.<p>People often learn their understanding is flawed by saying something &quot;stupid&quot; and getting a response to that. Censorship fosters a climate of fear where people are less likely to say the &quot;dumb&quot; thing and get it explained.<p>A good policy with raising children is &quot;There are no bad questions. You can ask (parent) anything and will not get in trouble, even if the answer is <i>Wow, that&#x27;s a really bad word and means (something bad). Please don&#x27;t use that at school or I will get called by the teacher.</i>&quot;
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ggmover 3 years ago
Tenure track changed papers from vehicles to express ideas subject to a strong test, into a burden to jump, for your lifes work security.<p>Arguably thesis by body of work is less corrosive, but the production of 3-4 papers from the PhD is basically now a signal to the university you can be that performing seal.<p>That, and IPR. &quot;a new drug which xxx (in mice)&quot; paper is worth significantly more to the company behind it during share price discussions. (Obviously this is shorthand because IPR has risks in premature publication as well)
walterbellover 3 years ago
Nov 2021, Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS), Washington, DC, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC8651604&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC8651604&#x2F;</a><p><i>&gt; For decades, corporate undermining of scientific consensus has eroded the scientific process worldwide. Guardrails for protecting science-informed processes, from peer review to regulatory decision making, have suffered sustained attacks, damaging public trust in the scientific enterprise and its aim to serve the public good. Government efforts to address corporate attacks have been inadequate. Researchers have cataloged corporate malfeasance that harms people’s health across diverse industries. Well-known cases, like the tobacco industry’s efforts to downplay the dangers of smoking, are representative of transnational industries, rather than unique. This contribution schematizes industry tactics to distort, delay, or distract the public from instituting measures that improve health—tactics that comprise the “disinformation playbook.” Using a United States policy lens, we outline steps the scientific community should take to shield science from corporate interference, through individual actions (by scientists, peer reviewers, and editors) and collective initiatives (by research institutions, grant organizations, professional associations, and regulatory agencies).</i><p>UCS Case studies: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ucsusa.org&#x2F;resources&#x2F;disinformation-playbook" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ucsusa.org&#x2F;resources&#x2F;disinformation-playbook</a>
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jl6over 3 years ago
Feels like too many people think “published paper = truth”, when really the paper is just the start of a journey towards truth, on which hurdles such as replication, independent scrutiny, and common-sense&#x2F;real-world testing must be overcome before we can start treating them as reliable. And I think most scientists do actually get this, and what we suffer from is a media environment that jumps on the first sniff of a result and holds it up as definitive proof of something.
toolzover 3 years ago
So many &quot;misinformation censorship&quot; proponents seem to have quickly forgotten just how much literally everyone in public health has spread misinformation this pandemic. It&#x27;s unavoidable being wrong and often the cost of making claims without unimpeachable evidence is higher than the cost of being wrong. Name me a public health official who regularly made recommendations this pandemic and I&#x27;ll show you misinformation.<p>The real issue here, in my opinion, is attributing malice so quickly and with extreme prejudice. Tensions are high and it seems to have become commonplace to assign ill-intent to the other tribe way too easily. In my opinion the answer to all of these problems is compassion and statistical thinking. Most people mean well and often times the only way you can get people to go to extremes is to negatively reinforce them into deeply entrenched tribal thinking.<p>It will always be a safer assumption to assume somebody means well even when they are wrong. Humans did not become the dominant species on this planet without cooperation and pro-social behaviors.
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data_acquiredover 3 years ago
Notable blurb from the report itself ---<p>&quot;However, whilst this approach [content removal] may be effective and essential for illegal content (eg hate speech, terrorist content, child sexual abuse material) there is little evidence to support the effectiveness of this approach for scientific misinformation, and approaches to addressing the amplification of misinformation may be more effective. In addition, demonstrating a causal link between online misinformation and offline harm is difficult to achieve [25, 26], and there is a risk that content removal may cause more harm than good by driving misinformation content (and people who may act upon it) towards harder-to-address corners of the internet27.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m happy that this point has been raised in this report. Lot of understandable hand-wringing and fear about online misinformation about over COVID, but it was never clear to me that online misinformation is a variable that explains differences in vaccination rates across countries, or to what extent it affects an individual&#x27;s decision not to vaccinate. Turns out that this is hard to measure.<p>The CDC messaging was really bad and problematic on several counts right from the get go. Its not like the US is incapable of messaging about the link between individual behaviour and societal good in the long term (for instance, there were initial protracted battles, but we eventually agreed largely on condoms and HIV, or smoking and lung cancer risk) or in the short term (as in the lifestyle sacrifices that WWII engendered for wartime production). I wonder what went right in those situations (if they did go right) that went wrong in the messaging this time around.<p>Over and above the masking, some observations --<p>1. Transmission risk, I think, was never the primary end-point of vaccine development, but rather, to prevent hospitalization. But the messaging from CDC and others on the vaccine implied that transmission would keep declining with increasing vaccination rates, which turned out to be true only to a limited extent.<p>2. The early messaging was that this would be one wave of infections, and that one round of vaccination would end it all. This was tough to defend given what happened with the flu. I understand that telling people that &quot;Well, the vaccine may not give long-lasting immunity and still leave you susceptible&quot; is not going to promote vaccination, but perhaps emphasizing that vaccine-immunity is controlled and safe than an infection that might hit all organs, would have been a better way out?
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Cthulhu_over 3 years ago
I mean, removing &#x2F; censoring dumb shit will just empower people, it&#x27;s a kind of martyrdom, and the conspiracy thinkers will see it as Proof that there&#x27;s a Cabal out there that is Suppressing the Truth. This already applies to these warning labels that are put on videos, facebook posts, spotify podcasts, etc - if you&#x27;re skeptical about the establishment, you&#x27;ll see those as proof that the cabal is meddling and trying to censor these opinions. It makes people more curious.
archhnover 3 years ago
Trust the [government] scien[tists]ce. As if &quot;science&quot; is a pure endeavor beyond the reach of human corruption. How do I know who is acting in my best interest? Are we paying their salary, or are corporations and government agencies paying them? Who are they beholden to? Are our interests the same?<p>We all aren&#x27;t in the same boat. Certain decisions are harmful to certain groups and beneficial to others. Lockdowns, for example, decimated small businesses and crushed the working class. Amazon and many corporations, on the other hand, welcomed the lockdowns as a boon to their businesses.<p>We are not one nation. We are not one world. These centralized authorities are sanctifying the plundering of certain groups on behalf of others--or so it seems.
flargover 3 years ago
The three recommendations are literally the antithesis of what modern news media does today, which is, in turn, largely due to the political motivations of the media organisations and their owners. I very much doubt that the royal society does not know this already.
kutenaiover 3 years ago
Remember when the &quot;science&quot; claimed that low-fat, high carb diets were healthy? Doctors once said that smoking was &#x27;safe&#x27;.<p>Science is &#x27;right&#x27; up until it&#x27;s wrong.
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bmc7505over 3 years ago
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Regardless of where you stand on specific issues like censorship, public health and misinformation, I think it’s really dangerous how counter-consensus opinions cannot be expressed in the open without individuals facing intense public scrutiny. There needs to be some kind of correction mechanism in case the consensus opinion is misinformed.<p>Maybe it would help to put in terms of a (not-so-implausible) scenario folks here are more familiar with. Suppose one day a niche topic in computer science became the subject of mass public concern, e.g., a computer virus escaped the lab and programable computers became heavily regulated. Anyone caught running unapproved software could face criminal charges. &quot;But Turing Machines can be good, creative tools&quot;, you protest. &quot;No, we cannot predict their behavior and unsanctioned software endangers us all,&quot; says your friend. As a programmer whose creative freedom depends on libre software, how would that situation make you feel?
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btdmasterover 3 years ago
There&#x27;s little difference between arbitrary arbiters (read: mostly robots) flagging content as &quot;inaccurate&quot; as compared to outright banning content (to me, it is very similar to the Jude Star of David). A more reliable solution would be to be able to actually pick arbiters you trust, like you can do with social media on the Fediverse (implicitly dismissed as &quot;fringe&quot; in the article).
8noteover 3 years ago
Censoring scientific information to me feels like a continuation of science&#x27;s replication crisis.<p>The tooling for all classical techniques seem to have been broken as of late, getting rid of critical thinking for free speech, and replication for science.
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Zenstover 3 years ago
I was always taught that information is the product of data and bad data will yield bad information. With this in mind, I feel that the terminology of `misinformation` is perhaps not the best choice of words in some way. Though in the context of science, we have data, information and finally facts. So with that in mind, I appreciate what the Royal Society is getting at and in effectively addressing a form of non-platforming per se.<p>With that, the debate is what is and has been the due process of much great science and yes, science learns more from its mistakes than any unattainable being 100% right all the time.<p>For without the ability to question and debate things that for some may appear as facts, we stifle innovation and creativity. Which is the crux of advancements&#x27; of science for by its very definition, sits on the edge of fact or false.
Simplicitasover 3 years ago
I wonder if this statement from the Royal Society is more about this situation in Britain, rather than the rest of the rest of the world.<p>Rationality is probably the only remaining weapon humanity has to survive, and it sure is threaten, especially in light of the modern social medial business model.
xunn0026over 3 years ago
Odd how there&#x27;s no study on reducing the massive manipulation being done for the greater good.<p>The pandemic has really shown how weak and sleazy all institutions are.<p>Any while &#x27;scientific misinformation&#x27; means there&#x27;s at least a modicum of science in place, wait until you see what people are really sharing privately!<p>The disaster that will come is well deserved to all governments and institutions.<p>There used to be a time when transparency was seen as important. Well, no transparency if it&#x27;s for the greater good!<p>From what I see people are not stupid. And I suspect they are getting better at detecting manipulation too. In the end, what the state &#x2F; institutions say will be seen as just noise. A sort of advertisement with no real information.
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MangoCoffeeover 3 years ago
Joe Rogan and Dr. Robert Malone podcast. is it misinformation? Dr. Malone certainly have the credentials that none of us have and yet he is censored. is science only one voice? whoever express different opinions should be censored even if that person have the credentials to speak on the matter?
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goodluckchuckover 3 years ago
&gt; Misinformation is information that is incorrect.<p>No, misinformation is true information that is misleading (as to some other topic), morally wrong, etc.<p>If it is not true, then it is “not” information. It is “dis”-information.<p>(From Fluoride pdf)<p>Update: E.g. Consider the statement: “According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 55.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019.” That is information. It is knowledge which is conveyed &#x2F; stored &#x2F; etc. Some people use that fact to argue that AAs are inherently violent people. In the context of such an argument, the fact is potentially misleading &#x2F; misinformation. The premise is true, but not the conclusion.<p>An example of disinformation would be to say: “According to the FBI, African-Americans accounted for 85.9% of all homicide offenders in 2019.” That’s not true. That’s “not” information.
sebastianconcptover 3 years ago
When any kind of censorship, including self-censorship, total or partial, goes into a publication or its silencing, it will transform a piece of knowledge in ammunition of technical-propaganda instead of science. PS: same happens with true art.
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nathiasover 3 years ago
All this pro-science stuff and I never see an opinion from anybody from the only relevant scientific field: epistemology. Why do we have to pretend this is in good faith when they don&#x27;t even believe themselves?
jdkeeover 3 years ago
Relevant for economics:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;karlstack.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;frauds-in-the-duke-boston-and-stanford" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;karlstack.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;frauds-in-the-duke-boston-a...</a>
qwerty456127over 3 years ago
Why not just create an open database which would contain important comments, critique and known cases of misinterpretation&#x2F;misuse for every scientific paper (uniquely identified by a DOI)?
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jlpomover 3 years ago
The worse is nearly no physician bother to read studies&#x2F;papers.
dadjokerover 3 years ago
Truly Orwellian stuff.
the6threplicantover 3 years ago
If scientists speak out they then get labelled as political. It&#x27;s a lose-lose situation that scientists face.<p>Misinformation is like junk food. It triggers people&#x27;s endorphins while scientific thinking is vegetables and fruits. It can never win.
rob_cover 3 years ago
It won&#x27;t be listened to.<p>The lack of public understanding of the scientific process and ability to parse published articles in context over the last year unfortunately shows the desperate need for scientific outreach to explain the current state of research to there public.<p>And obviously nobody listens anyway because everything has become overly polarised.<p>Maybe journals should be behind some sort of access restriction (not cost) so that the scientific method is less disturbed by the public and political idealogs...
henry_boneover 3 years ago
From the article: &#x27;The report defines scientific &quot;misinformation&quot; as content which is presented as fact but counter to, or refuted by, the scientific consensus - and includes concepts such as ‘disinformation’ which relates to the deliberate sharing of misinformation content.&#x27;<p>They define misinformation in terms of a &quot;scientific consensus&quot;. That alone seems problematic[0].<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC2719747&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC2719747&#x2F;</a>
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LightGover 3 years ago
Jeeze ... this whole thread is a complete undermining of the scientific process.<p>I thought we had more faith in the majority of our scientists.<p>Shameful.
zzyzzover 3 years ago
I always think about this.<p>If you can&#x27;t trust people with the ability to see or hear certain information, how can you even trust them to vote?
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nathansherburnover 3 years ago
As much as I love being relatively unrestricted on the internet, is there actually any evidence that censorship decreases trust in institutions?<p>China is notorious for censorship but from speaking to friends there it seems everyone is totally on board with vaccines and very few people doubt climate science. People know everything is censored but trust in science, experts etc is relatively high.
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garfieldnateover 3 years ago
I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I&#x27;m glad to hear education prioritized and the dangers of censorship discussed; on the other hand, I don&#x27;t like the sound of &quot;monitoring and mitigating evolving sources of scientific misinformation online&quot;. It comes off as, &quot;we need to crack down on the smaller platforms because people can think and say what they want there.&quot; And the final non-committal comment from Vint Cerf, representing google here, reads simply as, &quot;what we&#x27;ve been doing is fine and we should keep doing it.&quot; I would have expected something more like, &quot;we need to encourage productive conversation around controversial topics instead of silencing minority voices by pretending we can find the truth with an algorithm.&quot; Purposefully preventing someone&#x27;s voice from being being found, or taking away their opportunity to make a living through sharing, is still censorship.
seventytwoover 3 years ago
There’s a major distinction between misinformation and disinformation.<p>Disseminating DISinformation should be considered fraud, provided it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the purveyors knew the information was false. Otherwise, any provably-false thing is misinformation.
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AussieWog93over 3 years ago
Just throwing my 2c into the well, as someone who used to be highly &quot;pro-science&quot; but lost confidence in much of academia and the validity of scientific research in general after starting a PhD and seeing how the sausage is made.<p>The biggest problem science is facing is not an external threat from a rabble of ignorant science deniers, but the complete degradation of quality within the scientific institutions themselves.<p>Most research is flawed or useless, but published anyway because it&#x27;s expedient for the authors to do so. Plenty of useful or interesting angles are not investigated at all because doing so would risk invalidating the expert status of the incumbents. Of the science that is communicated to the public (much of which is complete horseshit), the scientists themselves are often complicit in the misrepresentation of their own research as it means more of those sweet, sweet grants. The net result is the polished turd that is scientific research in the 21st century.<p>&quot;Educated&quot; people can say what they want about how important it is to believe in the science and have faith in our researchers and the institutions they work for.<p>The fact remains that if one were to assume that every single scientific discovery of the last 25 years was complete bullshit, they&#x27;d be right more often than they were wrong.
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rhakswover 3 years ago
&gt; The report says there is little evidence that calls for major platforms to remove offending content will limit scientific misinformation’s harms and warns such measures could even drive it to harder-to-address corners of the internet and exacerbate feelings of distrust in authorities.<p>Let&#x27;s move towards reviewable moderation.<p>I&#x27;m happy to see this issue recognized by research. I believe <i>secret</i> removals, where authors of content are unaware it&#x27;s been removed, are the primary problem. Removal in and of itself might not be a big deal if we could all review what&#x27;s been removed.
posterboyover 3 years ago
&gt; Investing in lifelong information literacy – Education on digital literacy should not be limited to schools and colleges. Older adults are more likely to be targeted by, and be susceptible to, online misinformation.<p>Is this a prank, i.e. obvious misinformation?<p>The prior point that surveilance is needed, following that individual platforms shouldn&#x27;t be relied on for censorship would also widely be considered plain wrong.<p>It&#x27;s really questionable how science is to be defined, as soon as social aspects enter the picture.
errcorrectcodeover 3 years ago
I think we cannot avoid another Dark Ages and deurbanization without reputable authorities, information, and criticism of popular dis&#x2F;misinformation.<p>Deplatforming creates martyrs and conspiracy theories, as does the lack of communication or the lack of reputable authorities.<p>I don&#x27;t know how we can scale the limited time of subject-matter authorities except to direct their cannons at the biggest sources and individual instances of nonsense.
headsoupover 3 years ago
The biggest problem is the labelling of anything outside the &#x27;consensus&#x27; as unscientific &#x27;misinformation.&#x27; This is particularly problematic where it is the media and government representatives determining what is consensus.<p>Many scientific breakthroughs did not come from repeating the established consensus and a lot of scientific consensus has been horrifically wrong in the end.
tekknikover 3 years ago
I find it interesting that here on HN we seem to have more conversations on censorship than actual world problems. We have two countries on the brink of war, rampant poverty&#x2F;homelessness and limping economies in just about every country, and all we can talk about is why we should censor misinformation. Anyone else feeling we’re hopeless as a species?
t8yover 3 years ago
I wonder if AI can help better vet science to see if there&#x27;s flaws. I was looking at a paper recently[0] about how Swedish men cause more emissions than women. I feel like it has big issues that could be fairly easily checked with an AI system to check for logical fallacies and statistical errors. I think most research is BS and it takes too long to tell if it&#x27;s real or fake. The most common outcome unfortunately is that research is fake.<p>My issues are that more men than women live in rural areas[1] so on average men will have to drive more and use more fuel. This data also seems to come mainly from a study in 1998 but they continuously say &quot;men today&quot;, the data is from two decades ago. It also suggests that buying local food is better for the environment then importing, but they probably don&#x27;t grow food in Stockholm so it would come from regional areas. Men also need more calories so even though women emit more from their food, men are actually doing much better considering they are generally recommended to eat 1.25x more calories than women[2]. I&#x27;m also very sceptical about the energy used for clothing and furnishing in the study.<p>This study was widely shared in places like NPR[3], The Guardian[4], CNN[5, CBS[6] and The Independent[7]. I feel like the issues I&#x27;ve pointed out are super obvious and if there&#x27;s a reason they are not problems then they should talk about why those issues are not relevant, especially in the news articles.<p>I haven&#x27;t read the whole paper, I actually just looked at the study to see how much clothing emits per person(after an article on fast fashion was posted on here). It&#x27;s very concerning to me that that is published in &quot;pro-science&quot; news papers. Perhaps even worse is the original paper is not even really casting blame but the articles all do.<p>[0]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;10.1111&#x2F;jiec.13176" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;onlinelibrary.wiley.com&#x2F;doi&#x2F;10.1111&#x2F;jiec.13176</a><p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedirect.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;article&#x2F;pii&#x2F;S0743016721001479" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sciencedirect.com&#x2F;science&#x2F;article&#x2F;pii&#x2F;S074301672...</a><p>[2]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nhs.uk&#x2F;common-health-questions&#x2F;food-and-diet&#x2F;what-should-my-daily-intake-of-calories-be&#x2F;#:~:text=An%20ideal%20daily%20intake%20of,women%20and%202%2C500%20for%20men" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nhs.uk&#x2F;common-health-questions&#x2F;food-and-diet&#x2F;wha...</a>.<p>[3]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;21&#x2F;1018796496&#x2F;men-spending-carbon-climate-change-impact" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.npr.org&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;21&#x2F;1018796496&#x2F;men-spending-carbo...</a><p>[4]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;environment&#x2F;2021&#x2F;jul&#x2F;21&#x2F;men-cause-more-climate-emissions-than-women-study-finds" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;environment&#x2F;2021&#x2F;jul&#x2F;21&#x2F;men-caus...</a><p>[5]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnn.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;21&#x2F;europe&#x2F;climate-carbon-gender-differences-study-scn-intl-scli&#x2F;index.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnn.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;07&#x2F;21&#x2F;europe&#x2F;climate-carbon-gender-...</a><p>[6]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbsnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;carbon-footprint-men-more-women-study&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cbsnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;carbon-footprint-men-more-women...</a><p>[7]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;climate-change&#x2F;sustainable-living&#x2F;climate-crisis-emissions-men-women-study-b1887861.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.independent.co.uk&#x2F;climate-change&#x2F;sustainable-liv...</a>
swayvilover 3 years ago
For 99.9% of us, science is theater. A guy on tv wearing the right costume, talking sciencey.<p>And independent thought is inconceivable.<p>So ya, the zombie apocalypse happened yesterday and nobody noticed.
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SMAAARTover 3 years ago
&gt; The report says there is little evidence that calls for major platforms to remove offending content will limit scientific misinformation’s harms and warns such measures could even drive it to harder-to-address corners of the internet and exacerbate feelings of distrust in authorities.<p>This is a known fact.
jmpeaxover 3 years ago
&gt; The report says there is little evidence that calls for major platforms to remove offending content will limit scientific misinformation’s harms<p>Sounds like we need more evidence, rather than accepting the null hypothesis. C&#x27;mon Royal Society, this is stats 101.
HeavyStormover 3 years ago
We should never forget that Galileo almost burned for spreading what was &quot;misinformation&quot; back then. The science WAS in the hand of the church (whatever little science it was), so he was actually going against &quot;scientific&quot; consensus. I&#x27;m sure many more were actually burned, but I&#x27;m no historian.<p>Misinformation isn&#x27;t harmful in itself, what is harmful are the choices people make based on that (mis) information. That&#x27;s what legislation should fight, that&#x27;s what society should fight.<p>Instead of censorship, how about more information, more education? People, even antivax and the like, have a good measure of cognitive capacities. We should strive to educate and inform them, and accept that some people are just gonna think differently. If they are 5%, well, that&#x27;s alright. Maybe one of them is the next Galilee.
hellas_fellasover 3 years ago
Science is being co-opted by corporations. They did the same with the so-called &quot;socialism&quot; or &quot;liberalism&quot;. Science is by its own nature meant to be challenged. Absolutists tyrants don&#x27;t like this.
pdogover 3 years ago
&quot;Scientific misinformation&quot; is such an incredible example of Newspeak.
cletusover 3 years ago
The only positive for me from this misinformation plague is that as soon as the next issue comes along all of the anti-Covid vaccine sentiment will be completely forgotten.<p>Don&#x27;t believe me? When was the last time you heard about the MMR vaccine causing autism?<p>The &quot;good&quot; part of this is that rejection of science, politicization of science and the use of this issue to manipulate people who somehow claim to be &quot;free&quot; yet are the most easily manipulated aren&#x27;t new issues. There was the MMR autism issue, resistance to polio vaccination and resistance to smallpox vaccines before that.<p>The damage is of course huge. The US is sitting at &gt;3,500 Covid deaths per day currently. Annualized this is well over 1 million people per year (although it&#x27;ll likely trail off), 90-95% of whom are now unvaccinated. These are people who are now steadfastly choosing to die. The government has moved on from this (eg the updated CDC guidelines on isolation to keep the economy going). People seem to have moved on (IME).<p>I don&#x27;t think we should be worried about censorship of misinformation. Credible-sounding misinformation is easy to produce and hard to refute (aka the bullshit asymmetry principle). Leaving it out there does more harm than good (IMHO). You&#x27;ll never completely get rid of it but the less of it out there the better.<p>As to what to do about this, the only cure is to teach critical thinking at a relatively young age so people can ask questions like &quot;who is telling me this?&quot;, &quot;what are their sources?&quot;, &quot;why shouldn&#x27;t I trust the CDC?&quot; and &quot;who benefits from me believing this?&quot;. Conservatives know this which is why they&#x27;re busy passing laws to prevent such teaching.<p>It&#x27;s why college graduates tend to be more liberal: colleges generally teach critical thinking and that tends to kill conservatism. Of course this is predictably painted as colleges being hotbeds of political indoctrination. So here we are.<p>A big problem with misinformation being out there is how people can fall into the trap of bothsidsing the issue (which is a logical fallacy, for the record).
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pcmaffeyover 3 years ago
I wonder what Claude Shannon would say about misinformation? Is it noise? Can its impact be modeled?
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sorethescoreover 3 years ago
Not providing a platform for or promoting scientific misinformation is not the same thing as censoring scientific misinformation. The problems of science will not be solved by promoting pseudoscience or scientific information. That&#x27;s just making a problem that is bad and making it worse.
hellas_fellasover 3 years ago
Science is being co-opted by corporations. They did the same with the so-called &quot;socialism&quot; or &quot;liberalism&quot;.
fleddrover 3 years ago
The way I see it, this problem is unsolvable. The issue is that the human species simply isn&#x27;t equipped to deal with the modern information age.<p>Biologically, we&#x27;re still hunter gatherers, cognitively optimized to deal with tiny scale societies and its limited information diet.<p>Even in our area of culture (since only 10K years ago, start of agriculture) we dealt with almost no information at all. What we consume in information in a single day now is the information load of an entire year just centuries ago.<p>Even in my lifetime, early 80s, information was limited, and slow. When I grew up, we had 3 national TV channels, a few magazines, and a library of dated books.<p>The current age is not &quot;business as usual&quot;, it&#x27;s brand new. Information is unlimited. Information moves at breakneck speed. Information has broken free from institutions, all citizens are producing it. Information has no accountability, anybody can say anything.<p>We&#x27;re not equipped for this. We don&#x27;t &quot;scale&quot; in this way. That&#x27;s why I don&#x27;t see a true solution. But that doesn&#x27;t excuse us from trying...<p>Academics should produce more idiot-proof takes that are proportional, connect with the real world and include counter points, rather than producing a simplistic paper for the sake of producing a paper to meet some perverted internal metric. The emphasis should be truth and the purpose of it, outcomes, not checklists.<p>Traditional media should stop turning themselves into a Twitter account or juicy Tumblr blog. Stop thinking in narratives and us versus them type of reporting as is so typical of US media.<p>Social networks should ban paid advertising for anything that has a societal impact. Further, social networks should stop rewarding the most extreme, dumb, controversial opinions to the mainstream as this normalizes outrage, division and minsinformation. The reasonables should win, not the crazy ones.<p>This last part is perhaps key. There will always be misinformation but the way it spreads is the real issue.<p>Say a controversial character has 100K followers. The character posts something new and it&#x27;s now anyone&#x27;s guess how many of their followers see it. My guess is that it&#x27;s fairly low, perhaps 10K. If it would end here, it&#x27;s fair game.<p>But that&#x27;s now how this works. At all. There&#x27;s a retweet button. This single button brings it under the eyes of countless additional audiences, and it spreads like wildfire. Because the take was controversial. As part of this effect, the character gets even more followers, and so on.<p>At the end of the day, you basically take a village idiot that would normally be completely isolated in their opinion, and hand them the microphone to address an audience of millions.<p>In fact, the only reason this person had 100K followers to begin with was because of this effect: richly rewarding controversy, bad takes, etc.
overgardover 3 years ago
I think the US has caught this cancerous idea that the average person can&#x27;t be trusted to think for themselves. The amount of condescension in that thought process is disgraceful. They think, someone has to tell the average person how to think. And the baffling thing is that supposed liberals think that thoughts should be policed by corporations, government, and self styled intellectuals (which seems so much against what classic liberals stood for). I think Matt Taibbi said it best recently, the most dangerous lies come from government and powerful institutions. People really need to stop focusing on dumb culture war stuff like trying to cancel Joe Rogan and really think hard about if they really want a society where google and facebook and whoever screams loudest on twitter are the deciders of societal truth. I don&#x27;t want that.
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