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Scientists must resist cancel culture

46 pointsby steelstrawover 3 years ago

11 comments

codysover 3 years ago
This article mis-represents criticisms of Angewandte Chemie publishing Tomáš Hudlický&#x27;s essay (opposing efforts to increase diversity in organic synthesis) by attributing them to a &quot;Twitter firestorm&quot; while other publications note this event caused members of Angewandte Chemie&#x27;s international advisory board to resign in protest, and other Chemists criticized the essay [1].<p>There may be a way to thoughtfully discuss this issue, but this article is a poor attempt at it.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cen.acs.org&#x2F;research-integrity&#x2F;ethics&#x2F;Essay-criticizing-efforts-increase-diversity-in-organic-synthesis-deleted-after-backlash-from-chemists&#x2F;98&#x2F;web&#x2F;2020&#x2F;06" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cen.acs.org&#x2F;research-integrity&#x2F;ethics&#x2F;Essay-criticiz...</a>
SamoyedFurFluffover 3 years ago
Why is this article focused on whatever is happening on some social media site when schools are banning books, barring teachers from teaching subject matters deemed obscene, and churches are hosting book burning parties? I feel like there are some wacky priorities going on.
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mrtesthahover 3 years ago
Scientists have been against cancel culture for a while now.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;state-rankings&#x2F;states-that-dont-teach-evolution" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;state-rankings&#x2F;states-that...</a>
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kwertyoowiyopover 3 years ago
So much politics on HN these days.
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badrabbitover 3 years ago
Would have been nice if nazi scientists were &quot;cancelled&quot; after WW2. Before as well, perhaps nazi pseudoscience and eugenics would have had less prevalence.<p>The law should also bring back ostracizing and outlawing. Humane but more effective and just than prison. Joined ISIS? Get outlawed. Participated in mob robbery, riot or insurrection? Will pay for your ticket out of the state or country because you are now banned.<p>The comfort and protections of a civilized society do not belong to those who reject civilization.
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KerrAvonover 3 years ago
They seem to be upset about Dorian Abbot not being able to give a particular lecture. This is the last paragraph of the editorial he cowrote that seems to have caused all the trouble:<p>&gt; Then an ideological regime obsessed with race came to power and drove many of the best scholars out, gutting the faculties and leading to sustained decay that German universities never fully recovered from. We should view this as a warning of the consequences of viewing group membership as more important than merit, and correct our course before it is too late.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newsweek.com&#x2F;diversity-problem-campus-opinion-1618419" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newsweek.com&#x2F;diversity-problem-campus-opinion-16...</a><p>The stated goal of the programs he was opposing here is to increase diversity at universities. You can reasonably disagree that it will do that (and he does in the remainder of the article, some of the points are very good) without invoking Nazi Germany. It&#x27;s incredibly disrespectful and unlikely to convince people who aren&#x27;t already on your side. And if the consequence of this is that you can&#x27;t give a lecture one time, well, I&#x27;m having a difficult time finding the Zylkon B cans nearby.
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mint2over 3 years ago
Why is the title as (Wiley.com) not “(random chemistry journal on Wiley)”?
4WIWover 3 years ago
People who disagreed with the article, flagged it as &quot;spam or off-topic&quot;. The article discussing cancel culture got canceled (flagged) -- how ironic is that?
mempkoover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s not mobs that make decisions to censor but owners of companies and universities. Twitter can&#x27;t get you fired because that decision falls on the bosses.
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a_shovelover 3 years ago
&gt; Some institutions have actually institutionalised censorship. For example, the Royal Society of Chemistry (RSC), a major publisher, has issued guidelines for editors to „consider whether or not any content … might have the potential to cause offence“.<p>Is Krylov seriously asking us to consider <i>this</i> censorship? This is called <i>politeness</i>.<p>The citation for the list of innocuous terms to &quot;censor&quot; is another, very similar piece by Krylov, which cites this [0] memo from the University of Michigan&#x27;s IT department. It lists <i>no consequences</i> for failing to use the alternate terms. Quote:<p>&gt; Not all words on this list may be offensive to everyone. Regardless, if a colleague considers a word or phrase offensive, their lived experience should be acknowledged, and an alternative word or phrase should be used.<p>This is not &quot;All who refuse to adopt our Newspeak must be re-educated&quot;, this is &quot;If someone says a term is offensive, just be polite and go with it, and here are some alternative terms to help with that.&quot; It doesn&#x27;t even tell you to stop using it in general, just when someone objects! Calling this &quot;censorship&quot; is ridiculous.<p>Let&#x27;s look at the other two examples as well.<p>First, consider what happened <i>to</i> Tomáš Hudlický after he wrote the article.<p>&gt; The journal removed the paper from its website. ... A planned special issue of Synthesis in his honour was cancelled, invitations to speak at conferences and to review papers ceased, citations to his papers were deleted, and collaborators were encouraged to dissociate themselves from him.<p>He wasn&#x27;t fired, or demoted, or disciplined. Mainly, people just stopped wanting to associate with him. Was this proportionate? Let&#x27;s now consider what the wider chemistry community thought about the article:<p>&gt; Sixteen editorial board members resigned in protest of the publication. The journal ... issued an abject apology, suspended two editors, and began an internal investigation. Condemnation ensued in blogs, journals, and statements issued by chemical societies.<p>What happened to Hudlický seems like the straightforward consequence of holding a deeply controversial view. Lots of people won&#x27;t like you for it. They don&#x27;t <i>owe</i> you the things they were planning to give you <i>before</i> you wrote an article everyone hates. Saying <i>all of them</i> simultaneously &quot;capitulated to the mob&quot; is an entirely baseless framing (that&#x27;s all too common in this type of writing).<p>As for Dorian Abbot, paraphrasing the article, &quot;A group of activists initiated a social media campaign to uninvite him. MIT cancelled the event.&quot;<p>Again, unpopular people are not owed speaking appearances. Disinvitation is not punishment. The point of these talks is the prestige of having a respected expert make an appearance and share their views. If the audience doesn&#x27;t like you, there&#x27;s no reason for the university to invite you to speak. If this is <i>all</i> that happened to Abbot, I&#x27;m struggling to see why I ought to care about this.<p>In summary, an organization asked people to consider other peoples&#x27; feelings before publishing things, and some unpopular people were not allowed to give prestigious lectures. Going back to the top of the article and reading Krylov compare <i>this</i> to autocratic regimes and <i>murder</i> highlights just how dishonest and hyperbolic the framing is on all of these &quot;cancel culture&quot; articles. They&#x27;re all like this.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drive.google.com&#x2F;file&#x2F;d&#x2F;11a8cUt1SCfIxQRBZk_TnRYM5ltENL7LI&#x2F;view" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drive.google.com&#x2F;file&#x2F;d&#x2F;11a8cUt1SCfIxQRBZk_TnRYM5ltE...</a><p>[1] Further reading: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;michaelhobbes.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;moral-panic-journalism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;michaelhobbes.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;moral-panic-journalism</a>
crooked-vover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s a familiar pattern at this point: a piece complaining about &#x27;cancel culture&#x27; that conveniently elides actually mentioning any of the content that got people &#x27;canceled&#x27;, while focusing on the impolite responses of the &#x27;cancelers&#x27; and implicitly or explicitly arguing that literally anything should be allowed (or, rather, forced to be printed under an organization or government&#x27;s auspices) as long as it&#x27;s framed in a polite manner.