I found the actual report this is based on even more interesting:<p><a href="https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps-hints-surveillance-marketing-may-still-be-going-strong" rel="nofollow">https://app.urlgeni.us/blog/new-research-across-200-ios-apps...</a><p>Just a few of the highlights:<p>Magazine apps had the highest number of total network contacts (28), and the highest percentage of third party domain contacts (93%)<p>Social apps, followed by Games apps, made the fewest number of network contacts, 6 and 7 respectively.<p>Apps making the most number network contacts included iHeartRadio (56), Wall Street Journal (48), ESPN (42), Popeyes (42), and WattPad (36)
One thing that I found very interesting when I looked into what TikTok does: it's scary good at aggregating data about you. I live in a foreign country, my phone's network is behind a VPN to a different foreign country and I gave the app no extra permissions, yet somehow I still got recommended content from the country where I was born. Since it's a small country there's no way that's a coincidence. I'm both intrigued and spooked as to how they figured that connection out.
What kind of data? TikTok knows what content I interact to... on tiktok. That's it. Unless they have an android 0-day or something. It has no access to my mic, camera, browsing history, contacts list, or anything useful. Guess who has access to all that, if they want it, though? Google and Facebook (through whatsapp). What is the privacy concern here, exactly?
The conversation here on HN is quite funny. I can imagine the same conversation taking place in China: the data on US apps goes straight to the US government.
The title and article smells of China-bad-clickbait.<p>There's no uncertainty here. Like in every other case, it goes to any company that is willing to purchase it. Overwhelmingly it will be American companies using it for direct marketing.
I feel like TikTok is significantly underdiscussed, almost like the tech and business press are assuming it's a flash-in-the-pan more similar to Snapchat than Facebook. It is almost certainly having a major impact on the business of some of the most prominent publicly traded companies in the US, yet there are just a handful of articles discussing their impact on Facebook's disastrous quarterly results.
I don't understand what useful information could be harvested, as unlike Google/Facebook there is no massive tracking pixel product that follows you across the web. I'm a massive critic of the CCP, but I don't see what useful information they would get from this.<p>I think a bigger "conspiracy theory" I'd buy into would be the algrorithm exploiting political extremes and pushing insane voices to the top...but every social media/media company does that in some way (though not always intentionally.)
Just ask yourself: who has what incentives?<p>A state actor always desires insight into an adversary. The survival of nations depends on being able to either cooperate with others or subdue those who will not. The result of a state's strategy in these arenas is predominantly determined by their ability to predict the counterpart's behaviors, both at a citizen and leadership level.<p>Why TikTok is not seen as the ultimate embodiment of these incentives and immediately banned from the US is beyond me.
Even if it didn't share data.. it's designed from the beginning to be addictive. While other platforms like Facebook and Instagram grew into being platforms with aims to be addictive, I believe they started in a more neutral place. This type of app should be treated like smoking imo.<p>Queue the "you can find educational material on tiktok!" posts by the subset of HN who really love the app and the company.
I'm not a fan of Sinophobia, but the CCP has made it very clear that home grown tech companies will be in full cooperation with the state.<p>With that in mind, consider how much user data TikTok has and what might be done with it.
> For TikTok, the results were even more mysterious: 13 of the 14 network contacts on the popular social media app were from third parties. The third-party tracking still happened even when users didn’t opt into allowing tracking in each app’s settings, according to the study.<p>It seems like Apple is lacking on tracking enforcement of privacy. This mobile marketing company can do this so I'm guessing Apple has the resources to do this properly. You could even do it for the largest 1000 apps.
I refuse to download TikTok because I think we've reached peak social media and don't need another app that siphons off data and turns it into gold ingots. Besides, TikTok videos leak out into other platforms and you can tell by the little logo in the video that it was ripped from TikTok.<p>It's just Vine 2.0[1]. Many Vine videos got ripped and re-posted to YouTube so we have a small piece of internet culture surviving the death of an app and preserved.<p>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_(service)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_(service)</a>
These types of articles always frustrate me because the authors never seem to question where and how these apps are getting your data. These APIs and privileges are granted by iOS and Android. If only we had real privacy legislation in the US that could limit what is exposed to apps rather than being at the mercy of Google and Apple to put limits in place. It's not like TikTok is hacking into your phone
...
Articles such as these frame the debate around comparing different corporate and government influenced social media and never mention free social media as an alternative. <a href="https://fediverse.party/" rel="nofollow">https://fediverse.party/</a>
Nobody knows where any of their data goes and few people care. Tiktok is currently better at Algorithms than other SM, go figure. Some people hate Tiktok because they’ve never used it and incorrectly think it’s all dancing 14 year olds; others simply hate China because despite having a market economy its government has a little more power than in the West, which allows China to sometimes act outside the myopic lens of market logic when necessary (blasphemy) while reaping the market’s gains.
I believe that Facebook and Google collect more of my data than any other company in the world. And I know very well that they share all that data with US intelligence, because that's what they are required to do. That said, I don't see any problem in using another countries' app that might be doing the same thing that bigger violators like FB and Google are already doing. And, notice, I live in the US. For people oversees I can guarantee that this sentiment is even more common.
I think there is a case for a mandatory warning label, like on the app store and 5 sec interstitial that says:<p>“ Warning: this application sends your behavior to a foreign party. It may be stored indefinitely and used for personal retribution, social scoring, and manipulation of your political views. Proceed with caution”.<p>If that seems extreme, an outright ban of the app is worse. The US and others have had a good history of getting results this way, but it still respects individual and corporate liberties. Thoughts?
I think one of the things we don’t appreciate (perhaps most of the people on HN do) is that many of these platforms are not, as billed, social networks. They are, in fact, data collecting applications with a user facing, attention acquisition mechanism in the form of a fun little app. They are addictive for a reason. To get data off you.
Why does this and many similar articles frame the debate around comparing different corporate and government influenced social media platforms without mentioning free community run social media as an alternative? <a href="https://fediverse.party/" rel="nofollow">https://fediverse.party/</a>
This is why I only install a few absolutely necessary apps, and mostly from fdroid. It makes me anxious to see friends install 3 different electric scooter apps in the space of 10 minutes just to try and unlock a scooter. I doubt those apps ever get removed once no longer needed.
It ridiculous how TikTok keeps getting a pass from practically everyone. Are memories so short lived?<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725139" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21725139</a><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23634138" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23634138</a><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23684950" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23684950</a><p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26477064" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26477064</a>
Just curious. May it be that TikTok pushes more anti US and pro Chinese clips? I mean it was just my observation using the app, that if I'm getting political clips it is mostly against the west and never against china.
It's not unclear at all. It's Chinese data harvesting software. They'll do token public appeasement to avoid negative pressure, but every feature in the app is designed to collect biometrics and behavioral data.<p>China is not a good faith operator. Given the data needed to influence public opinion and voting, they will engage in manipulation favorable to their interests. That alone is sufficient to run tiktok at a loss, but the market manipulation possible, advertisement platform potential, and other monetization makes it look like just another app.<p>Google's been caught red handed deliberately manipulating political content.<p><a href="https://mygoogleresearch.com/" rel="nofollow">https://mygoogleresearch.com/</a><p>The idea that tiktok isn't used for the same type of manipulation is dangerously naive.<p>There's a need for social media manipulation watchdogs that can monitor content being delivered to different users so the companies and countries involved can be held accountable.<p>It's sad that a massively scaled invasion of privacy can only be countered by more surveillance. Because of the ephemeral nature of tiktok interactions, the only way to combat manipulation is to surveil the content being delivered to user feeds and compare subsequent opinion poling and purchases.
I occasionally check TikTok to see what it's like. I notice quite a bit of very "pro-China" type propaganda; idyllic Chinese farmers teaching their kids, muscular Chinese male athletes, etc.<p>Very much a tool to influence Western users and thought.